If BaD Radio isn't on from 3-7 p.m. ...

[mdmost 44,111]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Corby absolutely did disparage Mike personally once he started competing.  They all rallied the troops.  They might do the same if D&J actually do compete via another station. Who knows - they actually seem to be closer to D&J compared to Mike.  We'll see.   I'm really just interested in how it all plays out over time.

I think there's a massive difference in the situations. Rhyner was whining about being shut out of the station he helped start and then starting a direct competitor to the guys who he left in the lurch while coasting for multiple years. Dan and Jake going to a competitor because they have no options will probably be a lot easier for Corby and especially Bob, who looked at leaving the Ticket, to take. I think everyone vastly overstates the size of the audience for Dan and Jake or any midday show. Maybe some move over to The Freak if Dan and Jake are in drive time but I'm not so sure Rhyner's ego can take being forced out of his drive time show by Dan and Jake. He's that much of a prick. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by mdmost

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Corby absolutely did disparage Mike personally once he started competing.  They all rallied the troops.  They might do the same if D&J actually do compete via another station. Who knows - they actually seem to be closer to D&J compared to Mike.  We'll see.   I'm really just interested in how it all plays out over time.

Corby was well within his right to complain about Mike. Mike was a bitch and in Gordo’s words “started a spite station”. For all their naivety, Dan and Jake went about this genuinely. If they end up at The Freak or The Fan, it’ll be because Cumulus forced them to. And Corby won’t bitch about that. 

[C-Man 27,835]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

I think there's a massive difference in the situations. Rhyner was whining about being shut out of the station you helped start and then starting a direct competitor to the guys who you left in the lurch while coasting for multiple years. Dan and Jake going to a competitor because they have no options will probably be a lot easier for Corby and especially Bob, who looked at leaving the Ticket, to take. I think everyone vastly overstates the size of the audience for Dan and Jake or any midday show. Maybe some move over to The Freak if Dan and Jake are in drive time but I'm not so sure Rhyner's ego can take being forced out of his drive time show by Dan and Jake. He's that much of a prick. 

 

10 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Corby was well within his right to complain about Mike. Mike was a bitch and in Gordo’s words “started a spite station”. For all their naivety, Dan and Jake went about this genuinely. If they end up at The Freak or The Fan, it’ll be because Cumulus forced them to. And Corby won’t bitch about that. 

Rhynes also didn't leave because of a contract dispute. He retired. To turn up a couple of years later on the "spite station" with some Ticket off-casts is tougher to swallow than one of your brothers leaving because he's being mistreated or underpaid.

[Hermanator 7,706]

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't listen to the ticket but those hosts are members of the company suing their "friends" of many years and not one of them had said one word speaking out that Cumulus shouldn't be doing that as a podcast that can be streamed anytime isn't directly competing with terrestrial sports talk radio. There's no ratings books for podcasts and it's not the same industry. It's 100 percent petty of Cumulus to do this. 

Skipper is right the whole ticket aura has been blow to bits and shown to be a well crafted mirage. It's just a radio station like any other. If it entertains you then listen but there's no reason to give any loyalty to it. 

 

[mdmost 44,111]

Perhaps they've been barred from speaking about pending litigation or maybe they just feel Dan and Jake left so there's not much more they can do since they all tried to have D&J stay and were rebuffed? I don't think they need to say anything. The new teams are in and you support those guys who are here, not the ones who left. I don't think any of the on-air guys need to speak about it nor is it worth risking their livelihoods to do so. Dan & Jake chose their path. 

[Sawbonz 28,249]

3 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

I also don’t understand your second sentence at all. If they were paid for a podcast by Cumulus, of course they wouldn’t be harming Cumulus, which they definitely are now

My understanding is they were not paid to do a podcast while they were under contract with Cumulus. They wanted to do a podcast as part of their new contract and Cumulus declined their request. They are now doing a podcast. How is Cumulus harmed by their doing something that does not involve work on radio?

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

My understanding is they were not paid to do a podcast while they were under contract with Cumulus. They wanted to do a podcast as part of their new contract and Cumulus declined their request. They are now doing a podcast. How is Cumulus harmed by their doing something that does not involve work on radio?

Because they stole products that ultimately belong to Cumulus - not Dan & Jake - and they’re openly disparaging Cumulus employees. It absolutely is harmful and expressly prohibited by the contract THEY SIGNED.  

[elguapo 4,621]

Fuck cumulus and fuck the ticket (except Gordo)

#TeamDumbZone

[Sawbonz 28,249]

26 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Because they stole products that ultimately belong to Cumulus

What specific products did they steal?

 

ETA also I thought there was a recent federal ruling that nullified or severely restricted nondisparagement language

Edited August 7, 2023 by Sawbonz

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

What specific products did they steal?

 

ETA also I thought there was a recent federal ruling that nullified or severely restricted nondisparagement language

A federal ruling, whatever it was, and having an LLC (which still is totally irrelevant particularly as it pertains to Dan and Jake individual behavior) doesn’t preclude Cumulus from suing. 

They stole the web site. Easy to prove. They stole the logo. Easy to prove. They pretty much stole the name. They stole the format, and by doing so, basically stole the show. All of this would’ve been prohibited, per their Agreement, even after the 6-month non-compete. 

This doesn’t even get into the fact that they absolutely violated their non-compete. They had replicated their show within mere days of resigning. This is common sense shit. Their brazen nature and stupidity astounds m

[Sawbonz 28,249]

8 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

They stole the web site. Easy to prove. They stole the logo. Easy to prove. They pretty much stole the name

You’re going to have to walk me through this one. Are you saying their website is called The Hang Zone.com? If so I agree w you 100%. 
 

10 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

They stole the format

Wise asses that talk about sports and other shit? 
 

I guess we will see. They aren’t savvy and probably don’t have deep pockets. If they were and did I think they’d win

[Texzilla58 4,798]

Perhaps they've been barred from speaking about pending litigation or maybe they just feel Dan and Jake left so there's not much more they can do since they all tried to have D&J stay and were rebuffed? I don't think they need to say anything. The new teams are in and you support those guys who are here, not the ones who left. I don't think any of the on-air guys need to speak about it nor is it worth risking their livelihoods to do so. Dan & Jake chose their path. 

Nm

[Hermanator 7,706]

2 hours ago, mdmost said:

Perhaps they've been barred from speaking about pending litigation or maybe they just feel Dan and Jake left so there's not much more they can do since they all tried to have D&J stay and were rebuffed? I don't think they need to say anything. The new teams are in and you support those guys who are here, not the ones who left. I don't think any of the on-air guys need to speak about it nor is it worth risking their livelihoods to do so. Dan & Jake chose their path. 

Everybody made their choice. Dan and Jake chose to leave and the others chose to remain silent while their employer levies petty attacks at their supposed friends. 

Again, proof no one should have any loyalty to a radio station. 

[nolongerU2horn 769]

1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

A federal ruling, whatever it was, and having an LLC (which still is totally irrelevant particularly as it pertains to Dan and Jake individual behavior) doesn’t preclude Cumulus from suing. 

They stole the web site. Easy to prove. They stole the logo. Easy to prove. They pretty much stole the name. They stole the format, and by doing so, basically stole the show. All of this would’ve been prohibited, per their Agreement, even after the 6-month non-compete. 

This doesn’t even get into the fact that they absolutely violated their non-compete. They had replicated their show within mere days of resigning. This is common sense shit. Their brazen nature and stupidity astounds m

Rhynes is now doing segments on The Freak titled “What’s on Mike’s Mind” and “The 2-minute Drill”

Will be interesting to see if Cumulus sues.

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by nolongerU2horn

[Hermanator 7,706]

51 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You’re going to have to walk me through this one. Are you saying their website is called The Hang Zone.com? If so I agree w you 100%. 
 

Wise asses that talk about sports and other shit? 
 

I guess we will see. They aren’t savvy and probably don’t have deep pockets. If they were and did I think they’d win

If the format of two dudes talking about sports and bullshitting was Cumulus property they would have sued the shit out of every talk station in the nation. That's laughable Cumulus can control that. 

Unless Cumulus trademarked the dumb zone and the Home Alone design I doubt they have any right to those either. 

Dan and Jake could probably get this dismissed or get a judgement in their favor but it'll take tens if not hundreds of thousands in legal fees and Cumulus knows they can't spend that. Cumulus is seemingly filing a bullshit lawsuit to badger them. 

[mdmost 44,111]

32 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Everybody made their choice. Dan and Jake chose to leave and the others chose to remain silent while their employer levies petty attacks at their supposed friends. 

Again, proof no one should have any loyalty to a radio station. 

And I can live without the remaining guys getting in the middle of it. If you can't well then you have your options. I have loyalty to the Musers who I have listened to a lot longer than Dan and Jake. It's not their place to have to get in the middle of this legal fight, nor should they be expected to. That's a BS position to try to force them into. They can still be friends with Dan and Jake outside of the station and I highly doubt Dan and Jake would expect them to get involved as they know life goes on in radio, at least Dan does. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

You’re going to have to walk me through this one. Are you saying their website is called The Hang Zone.com? If so I agree w you 100%. 
 

Wise asses that talk about sports and other shit? 
 

I guess we will see. They aren’t savvy and probably don’t have deep pockets. If they were and did I think they’d win

Read Cumulus’ petition.  It was made available. I’m fairly certain if they decided to pursue this, Cumulus would prevail in most all of the articulated transgressions. 

 

19 minutes ago, nolongerU2horn said:

Rhynes is now doing segments on The Freak titled “What’s on Mike’s Mind” and “The 2-minute Drill”

Will be interesting to see if Cumulus sues.

 

Why?  We’re 3 years from Mike’s non-compete, he hasn’t harmed The Ticket by acting like a brazen jackass, and he isn’t a threat. 

[NOMAAA 1,700]

Been following pretty closely, what disparaging comments did Jake make? The part about not getting a raise? If that ends up being not true, yikes. Sucks to not tell the truth in public where it can be proven wrong publicly. 

[Guest]

I told myself I’d never have to read another Hermanator after he said Sark would have it come back to bite him for letting Casey walk and getting Quinn. Yet here you fuckers are quoting him. 

[nolongerU2horn 769]

25 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Read Cumulus’ petition.  It was made available. I’m fairly certain if they decided to pursue this, Cumulus would prevail in most all of the articulated transgressions. 

 

Why?  We’re 3 years from Mike’s non-compete, he hasn’t harmed The Ticket by acting like a brazen jackass, and he isn’t a threat. 

IP theft is IP theft

[Hermanator 7,706]

37 minutes ago, mdmost said:

And I can live without the remaining guys getting in the middle of it. If you can't well then you have your options. I have loyalty to the Musers who I have listened to a lot longer than Dan and Jake. It's not their place to have to get in the middle of this legal fight, nor should they be expected to. That's a BS position to try to force them into. They can still be friends with Dan and Jake outside of the station and I highly doubt Dan and Jake would expect them to get involved as they know life goes on in radio, at least Dan does. 

No one is expecting them to do so. Just blowing apart the bullshit fantasy that the ticket is a "family". I'm not sure even Donnie Nelson's soulless ass could work for someone suing his family. 

 

[Hermanator 7,706]

28 minutes ago, NOMAAA said:

Been following pretty closely, what disparaging comments did Jake make? The part about not getting a raise? If that ends up being not true, yikes. Sucks to not tell the truth in public where it can be proven wrong publicly. 

It seems odd that anyone in Cumulus executive management would pay enough attention to a couple of local Dallas mid day hosts on one of their many stations to know much about any of this. Seems like the local station management is the ones pushing for it and initially sent it up the ladder to get Cumulus' legal involved. Seems like Dan and/or Jake aren't in the favorites group of local management. 

12 minutes ago, nolongerU2horn said:

IP theft is IP theft

Seems like Rhyner still is. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, nolongerU2horn said:

IP theft is IP theft

When you want to enforce it. Also, it’s likely Mike sought and obtained Cumulus permission to use these segments. 

[BigDHornfan 6,636]

IP theft is IP theft

You might even say it’s petty theft in this case.

[NOMAAA 1,700]

1 minute ago, BigDHornfan said:

You might even say it’s petty theft in this case.

[threesheets 1,692]

Holy shit I've never witnessed a bigger bunch of cunts as y'all in my life lol. Bitches.

[Texzilla58 4,798]

Rhynes is now doing segments on The Freak titled “What’s on Mike’s Mind” and “The 2-minute Drill”
Will be interesting to see if Cumulus sues.
 

What is your point. Rhyner retired and was gone a couple years, and we don’t know what terms were in his contract vs D&J. Highly likely they were very different documents. Contracts like these usually are from talent to talent. Maybe These two dummies signed the cumulus boilerplate without reading it.

[Texzilla58 4,798]

If the format of two dudes talking about sports and bullshitting was Cumulus property they would have sued the shit out of every talk station in the nation. That's laughable Cumulus can control that. 
Unless Cumulus trademarked the dumb zone and the Home Alone design I doubt they have any right to those either. 
Dan and Jake could probably get this dismissed or get a judgement in their favor but it'll take tens if not hundreds of thousands in legal fees and Cumulus knows they can't spend that. Cumulus is seemingly filing a bullshit lawsuit to badger them. 

And your point? This happens every day in lawsuits everywhere. You gotta know the game and the lay of the land when you sit at a poker table.

[Texzilla58 4,798]

Everybody made their choice. Dan and Jake chose to leave and the others chose to remain silent while their employer levies petty attacks at their supposed friends. 
Again, proof no one should have any loyalty to a radio station. 

Uhh this is the real world. I wouldn’t expect any commentary beyond what has been expressed from the current employees of Cumulus which owns the platform these yo-yos work at.

You realize that as a public face of a company, going on their show and criticizing it’s actions pertaining to an ongoing legal action would be a pretty stupid thing to do. Like getting suspended or fired stupid.

Most of us work for others and I’ve worked in corps of varying sizes public and private. Startups, mom and pops, and myself. At all of them expressing my personal opinion publicly in the role I have in that organization regarding their actions would have got me fired. Do you really think the Musers should take a hard stance on this matter against their company?

It’s a business. It’s an issue between private parties with a negotiated contract between them that has terms beyond the active life. They will figure it out. Your feelings about it don’t really matter. All that matters is the legal disposition in this contract. They will hash it out in a conference room or courtroom. Life goes on.

[Skipper 6,412]

32 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

Uhh this is the real world. I wouldn’t expect any commentary beyond what has been expressed from the current employees of Cumulus which owns the platform these yo-yos work at.

You realize that as a public face of a company, going on their show and criticizing it’s actions pertaining to an ongoing legal action would be a pretty stupid thing to do. Like getting suspended or fired stupid.
 

Yeah, I mean it's pretty clear to the extent there are any public comments at all from the Ticket guys they will be pro-cumulus.  They don't really have a choice. I fully expect them to keep quiet entirely on the litigation front.   I also agree given the brazen way Dan and Jake went about this, absent information we just don't have currently, they pretty much forced Cumulus' hand on this.  Which is why while I still STRONGLY lean towards this just being Jake and Dan being business idiots with no real plan, there is a slight chance D&J are forcing Cumulus' hand in order to build Cumulus/Ticket backlash that will help if they want to directly compete at a rival station down the road.  That would be a savvy move. 

I'm sure Cumulus decided they really didn't have a choice once D&J chose to ignore their demand letter if they want their contracts with other talent to have any teeth, but it's still horrible optics and a big blow to the Ticket brand when they fail to sign top talent (pissing P1's off) then sue them.  

 

[Texzilla58 4,798]

If D&J think they can create a sea change backlash against the Ticket they are naive. Rhyner thought he could while there was some perceived vulnerability there. Despite a massive marketing campaign and being on a far superior transmitter/frequency, Rhyner has barely maintained a 1 share.

Of course this might be an elaborate ruse by DZ and various players to fight the man, to change radio, or move to the competitor. Or we take a different view: maybe they are just stupid in the ways of bidness. We shall see.

[sasquatch69 627]

If D&J had simply waited out the six-month noncompete and made a few subtle changes so they weren't so clearly leveraging direct IP from their Ticket show, it's likely none of this legal brouhaha would ever happen. It was their intense desire to stick it to the man so immediately after departure, without wanting to change basically anything, that has gotten them to this point.

[Surly Bevo 25,781]

55 minutes ago, sasquatch69 said:

If D&J had simply waited out the six-month noncompete and made a few subtle changes so they weren't so clearly leveraging direct IP from their Ticket show, it's likely none of this legal brouhaha would ever happen. It was their intense desire to stick it to the man so immediately after departure, without wanting to change basically anything, that has gotten them to this point.

Agree but the other side of the coin and the problem for Dan and Jake is if they wait 6 months they would have what is likely a much tougher hill to climb in terms of establishing a user/listener base for their podcast.  They would be trying to start something up right around Christmas/New Years or maybe a little later and by then all opportunity to use the current publicity around their departure to capture podcast listeners would be long ago lost.  

[NOMAAA 1,700]

9 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Agree but the other side of the coin and the problem for Dan and Jake is if they wait 6 months they would have what is likely a much tougher hill to climb in terms of establishing a user/listener base for their podcast.  They would be trying to start something up right around Christmas/New Years or maybe a little later and by then all opportunity to use the current publicity around their departure to capture podcast listeners would be long ago lost.  

this.  only hope would be to have a stable of hosts that were quality and ready to go when the ticket goes quiet at christmas.  drop the new "station" on youtube/podcast format during dry dock. 

i really hope they have bigger plans than just an hour long podcast 4 days a week. 

[Skipper 6,412]

7 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Agree but the other side of the coin and the problem for Dan and Jake is if they wait 6 months they would have what is likely a much tougher hill to climb in terms of establishing a user/listener base for their podcast.  They would be trying to start something up right around Christmas/New Years or maybe a little later and by then all opportunity to use the current publicity around their departure to capture podcast listeners would be long ago lost.  

There was probably a path they could have taken (different format/content, at least for now., not recording (and admitting to it) while still employed by the Ticket, completely different name/IP, not referencing/discussing The Ticket, etc. ) that very well could have let them skate without Cumulus action even if Cumulus had a technical claim.  As I've mentioned, I still think litigation is damaging for the Ticket Brand under any circumstances.  But D&J either gave no f's and didn't even consider their contract (or ignored legal advice) or intentionally forced Cumulus' hand. I lean towards the former but it would not have been difficult to put themselves in better legal standing (again, unless there are somehow facts in their favor we aren't aware of).

[Surly Bevo 25,781]

I have a real hard time buying this is all intentional, but there is that possibility.

Things like the Dumb Zone and using the same logo are either completely stupid (most likely) or it is bait. The idea being do something the intensifies the publicity, keeps you top of mind blah blah blah.

That said I wonder on the small chance this was all intentional if those two are so close to the sports entertainment business that they fell into the “no publicity is bad publicity” fallacy from watching the Jones, Cubans etc of the world use those kinds of things to their advantage. The fallacy being “it isn’t bad if you have the financial/reputation/legal/whatever critical mass to survive whatever it is, but if you don’t then yea…it’s bad”

You don’t put on a condom unless you’re gonna fuck.

[mdmost 44,111]

I don't think Dan is some mastermind who thought he would set up Cumulus to make them not look like bad guys so they could run to the Freak in 6 months. I think they truly thought they could just change the name and do an adjacent podcast while not violating their non-compete since they weren't going to a terrestrial radio station. I also think Dan didn't feel he was as handcuffed by the podcast thing as Jake so maybe that's why it's all under him? I think they didn't think it through enough or just thought Cumulus would never sue them so as not to look bad. They underestimated just how much radio corporations don't care about looking bad. Or maybe pothead Dan is some genius mastermind playing 4D chess to Cumulus' checkers. Dan who has troubling remembering certain, fairly simple words and forgets things very easily because of long haul Covid. 

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Agree but the other side of the coin and the problem for Dan and Jake is if they wait 6 months they would have what is likely a much tougher hill to climb in terms of establishing a user/listener base for their podcast.  They would be trying to start something up right around Christmas/New Years or maybe a little later and by then all opportunity to use the current publicity around their departure to capture podcast listeners would be long ago lost.  

It’s the real world. The purpose of the contract is to ensure they don’t have an easy hill to climb to “harm” Cumulus. They were beyond stupid with how they acted.

[Guest]

There is no way any of this is intentional. They’re business and legal novices, at best. At worst, they’re willfully ignorant. They were caught with their pants down. I mean this is very low hanging fruit for any corporate attorney just starting out. I can’t believe they released a podcast Sunday is probably the most shocking. 

[Hermanator 7,706]

Is a podcast legally considered competition for a radio station? I bet there are some corporate lawyers who could challenge that in court and possibly successfully. Hopefully whatever lawyers they received advice from are capable and willing to fight this out for them. If it's a big enough Dan and Jake P1 they could do some of it pro bono or at a reduced rate. Dan's last video sounded like he's getting legal advice to keep doing the podcast as normal until he's told not to do it. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Hermanator

[Skipper 6,412]

22 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Is a podcast legally considered competition for a radio station? 

Jake's contract specifically listed podcasting as competing (Dan's, which was several years older, did not)

[Skipper 6,412]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

I don't think Dan is some mastermind who thought he would set up Cumulus to make them not look like bad guys so they could run to the Freak in 6 months. I think they truly thought they could just change the name and do an adjacent podcast while not violating their non-compete since they weren't going to a terrestrial radio station. 

I think you are right.  It just blows my mind reading their contracts that they could be this ignorant/dumb that I'm attempting to come up with some theory in my lawyer brain how their brazen disregard for their contract makes sense.   But then again none of this should surprise me.  Their business Tues segments were sometimes cringeworthy.

[Guest]

Goddamnit Kix Brooks, nobody wants to go to La Tech. Shut up and play me some Neon Moon. 

[nolongerU2horn 769]

On 8/7/2023 at 9:42 PM, Porterhouse said:

When you want to enforce it. Also, it’s likely Mike sought and obtained Cumulus permission to use these segments. 

Lol that is extremely unlikely

[Surly Bevo 25,781]

 

[Hermanator 7,706]

As soon as they surface on the freak it's down to just a couple of Gordo segments on the unticket and the invasion for me. I'll otherwise be a Glenn or whatever stupid name they gave their listeners 

[nolongerU2horn 769]

Looks like D&J's lawyers are Philip Kingston and Matt Bruenig

[Texzilla58 4,798]

I figured they had hired Jim Adler The Texas Hammer. One of of those folks in my ValPak with a coupon.

[NOMAAA 1,700]

best of luck.

[Texzilla58 4,798]

July numbers here with dry docks and vacations. Ticket still with massive domination in the market. Will be interesting to see august.

How do Ben & Skin still have jobs. Their numbers have sucked forever.