Greatest Women Athlete - Lindsey or Serena?

[miguelito 11,499]

OK, so who was the better Lindsay/Lindsey: Vonn or Davenport?

[Wally Fairway 5,674]

Throw Jackie Robinson into the discussion - baseball, football, basketball & track at UCLA, although he was not a star on the baseball team.
Perhaps you've heard of him?

[spystud13 2,371]

Davenport is a fucking outstanding commentator these days. 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

On 2/10/2019 at 11:30 PM, Ted Lange said:

babe didrikson end of story. Every other woman to this point is like comparing Jordan to detlef schrempf

This. 

[ztejas 44,223]

2 hours ago, wood said:

Yep, & Jim Brown imho, too.

What about 

 

[immortal13 4,059]

What about Danica Patrick?

[perfectchaos007 6,780]

20 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

What about Danica Patrick?

To her credit, if NASCAR had a women’s league like most other sports, she would have dozens of career wins

[Valmy77 13,626]

On 2/10/2019 at 11:30 AM, ztejas said:

For starters, only rich white people snowboard/ski so who gives a fuck.

What is tennis the sport of people now?

[FloridaHorn 4,886]

Someone told me about this thread, and I hate to break to you guys, but you are all wrong. Joan Joyce is the greatest female athlete the USA has ever produced.

 

She played Professional softball for over 20 years. She once struck out Ted Williams and Hank Aaron in exhibitions, and as the story goes, she threw almost 30 pitches to Williams who never made contact....

 

But that is not all, she also played on the Women's National Basketball and Volleyball team. Then when her softball career ended she played on the LPGA tour for 10 years and was also a pro bowler.

 

She now coaches the softball team at FAU.

[Jerry Callo 8,958]

10 minutes ago, FloridaHorn said:

Someone told me about this thread, and I hate to break to you guys, but you are all wrong. Joan Joyce is the greatest female athlete the USA has ever produced.

 

She played Professional softball for over 20 years. She once struck out Ted Williams and Hank Aaron in exhibitions, and as the story goes, she threw almost 30 pitches to Williams who never made contact....

 

But that is not all, she also played on the Women's National Basketball and Volleyball team. Then when her softball career ended she played on the LPGA tour for 10 years and was also a pro bowler.

 

She now coaches the softball team at FAU.

Pretty impressive.  On par with Babe DZ.  Babe was born in Texas, though, so she wins.

[wood 11,763]

4 hours ago, immortal13 said:

What about Danica Patrick?

 

4 hours ago, perfectchaos007 said:

To her credit, if NASCAR had a women’s league like most other sports, she would have dozens of career wins

I respect Danica, but she's not even the best female racing driver of her own time, much less 'all time'. Definitely not in the discussion for best female athlete imho. Not even close.

Edited February 13, 2019 by wood

[MoJames 8,258]

On 2/10/2019 at 10:30 AM, ztejas said:

Lindsey isn't even in the top 10. Are you serious?

For starters, only rich white people snowboard/ski so who gives a fuck. 

 

On 2/10/2019 at 10:32 AM, ztejas said:

Jenny Thompson, Swimming: 12 medals (8 G, 3 S, 1 B)

Thompson dominated the Olympic scene from 1992-2004. Her swimming career started when she was attending Stanford University, where she won a record 19 NCAA titles. She won a total of 31 world championship medals, including 16 golds, and is now a respected anesthesiologist and surgeon. All eight of her Olympic gold medals came in relay events, as did two of her silver medals. Individually, she earned 100-meter freestyle silver in 1992 and bronze in the same event in 2000.

Wait, so you call out another entry because only rich white people do it and then post a swimmer.

[Huckleberry 34,578]

Ha, yep. Here's the video of last year's girls 200 yard freestyle sprint relay final at the 6A state championship meet. Schools in the finals were a laundry list of inner city athlete hotbeds:

Austin Westlake
Round Rock
The Woodlands
Humble Kingwood
Houston Stratford
Cy-Fair
San Antonio Reagan
Katy Taylor

There's a noticeable lack of pigment occupying the 32 $300+ racing suits in that video.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Huckleberry

[Goo Punch 4,275]

On 2/12/2019 at 3:12 PM, FloridaHorn said:

Someone told me about this thread, and I hate to break to you guys, but you are all wrong. Joan Joyce is the greatest female athlete the USA has ever produced.

 

She played Professional softball for over 20 years. She once struck out Ted Williams and Hank Aaron in exhibitions, and as the story goes, she threw almost 30 pitches to Williams who never made contact....

 

But that is not all, she also played on the Women's National Basketball and Volleyball team. Then when her softball career ended she played on the LPGA tour for 10 years and was also a pro bowler.

 

She now coaches the softball team at FAU.

Babe >>>> this lady. 

[Guest]

On 2/10/2019 at 1:24 PM, Llano Estacado said:

Babe DZ has T&F gold medals and is in the Hall of Fame of her alternate/later in life sports.

 

She completely changed the way women’s sports were viewed and played. Serena changed women’s tennis vis a vis power like the men’s game as it evolved since Billie Jean King’s era. Babe played every sport that way.

 

Nelson was quoted at the time that Babe could out drive and out finesse all but the top 10 men.

 

yeah but Babe didn't happen in the last 5  years, so it doesn't count with young folks.

[idigTexas 2,330]

5 hours ago, slorch said:

yeah but Babe didn't happen in the last 5  years, so it doesn't count with young folks.

Feel free to put her in a time machine and see how she would stack up against the best athletes of today.  She was certainly the best athlete of her time, but of all time, I have my doubts. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

Feel free to put her in a time machine and see how she would stack up against the best athletes of today.  She was certainly the best athlete of her time, but of all time, I have my doubts. 

 And Jim Thorpe would be pedestrian too right?

Edited February 15, 2019 by slorch

[idigTexas 2,330]

Not at all.  He was awesome...and all of his records have been broken.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

Not at all.  He was awesome...and all of his records have been broken.

Because training methods And technology haven’t changed at all right?

[idigTexas 2,330]

Of course they have.  And the world's population has increased, so the talent pool is bigger.  And the size and raw talent of athletes has changed due to genetics.  

[Huckleberry 34,578]

Not this shit again.

Best of all time is based on comparing to their peers.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

11 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Not this shit again.

Best of all time is based on comparing to their peers.

Fuck Babe Ruth........??

[idigTexas 2,330]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Not this shit again.

Best of all time is based on comparing to their peers.

OP should clearly state the rules for this shit.  Otherwise, this is what happens every time. 

[Huckleberry 34,578]

No, it's understood. If you're not comparing based on dominance with respect to their peers then "best of all time" doesn't even mean anything because it just becomes a discussion of who's the best right now or in the future.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

14 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

No, it's understood. If you're not comparing based on dominance with respect to their peers then "best of all time" doesn't even mean anything because it just becomes a discussion of who's the best right now or in the future.

Now we're speculating on future greats ?  Modern athletes have the benefit of modern training methods, modern equipment, better technology all around.   The greats of the past didn't do shit in the off season compared to todays 24/7/365 training athletes.

Tennis is maybe the best example. Rackets today that make every player a little harder hitting, and the volleyball net sized racket heads have bigger sweet spots, and more ball generating speed.

[idigTexas 2,330]

I don't like the "dominance with respect to their peers" perspective.  It assumes that all variables have evolved at exactly the same rate over time.  Past athletes had considerably fewer peers, and the disparity of training resources and environmental factors was much greater, making it easier for a good athlete to dominate the competition.   

I think we are now arguing the merits of the argument itself, which for me, is as pointless as comparing athletes from different eras. 

Oh look, there's another windmill over there...I'm going to go attack it.  Carry on if you wish. 

 

 

[ztejas 44,223]

On 2/13/2019 at 2:32 PM, Huckleberry said:

Ha, yep. Here's the video of last year's girls 200 yard freestyle sprint relay final at the 6A state championship meet. Schools in the finals were a laundry list of inner city athlete hotbeds:

Austin Westlake
Round Rock
The Woodlands
Humble Kingwood
Houston Stratford
Cy-Fair
San Antonio Reagan
Katy Taylor

There's a noticeable lack of pigment occupying the 32 $300+ racing suits in that video.

How are those school's downhill ski teams doing this year?

I guess I should have added "rich white people with access to ski slopes 7 months of the year" which basically cuts out 98% of the already slim demographic. 

[wood 11,763]

7 hours ago, idigTexas said:

Feel free to put her in a time machine and see how she would stack up against the best athletes of today.  She was certainly the best athlete of her time, but of all time, I have my doubts. 

If we we do that without her getting the benefit of today's training knowledge, nutrition, etc, then yeah, maybe. Give her those same advantages though, and she'd still be an absolute beast.

This is the same argument we always hear about past athletes, and it's extremely weak, imho.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, idigTexas said:

I don't like the "dominance with respect to their peers" perspective.  It assumes that all variables have evolved at exactly the same rate over time.  Past athletes had considerably fewer peers, and the disparity of training resources and environmental factors was much greater, making it easier for a good athlete to dominate the competition.   

I think we are now arguing the merits of the argument itself, which for me, is as pointless as comparing athletes from different eras. 

Oh look, there's another windmill over there...I'm going to go attack it.  Carry on if you wish. 

 

 

yeah, Jim Thorpe had all of those training advantages and always had elite equipment.

Thorpe's final event was the decathlon, his first (and as it turned out, his only) decathlon.^[34][39] Strong competition from local favorite Hugo Wieslander was expected. Thorpe, however, defeated Wieslander by more than 700 points. He placed in the top four in all ten events, and his Olympic record of 8,413 points would stand for nearly two decades.^[19] Even more remarkably, because someone had stolen his shoes just before he was due to compete, he found a mismatched pair of replacements, including one from a rubbish bin, and won the gold medal wearing them.^[40][41] Overall, Thorpe won eight of the 15 individual events comprising the pentathlon and decathlon

[idigTexas 2,330]

4 hours ago, wood said:

If we we do that without her getting the benefit of today's training knowledge, nutrition, etc, then yeah, maybe. Give her those same advantages though, and she'd still be an absolute beast.

This is the same argument we always hear about past athletes, and it's extremely weak, imho.

This is extremely weak as well.  There is no way in hell to know whether she would be a beast compared to taday's athletes, even when given the same advantages.  There is no way to compare athletes from different eras, because they can't compete against each other.  It's like every sport that is decided by judges.

[wood 11,763]

55 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

This is extremely weak as well.  There is no way in hell to know whether she would be a beast compared to taday's athletes, even when given the same advantages.  There is no way to compare athletes from different eras, because they can't compete against each other.  It's like every sport that is decided by judges.

Isn't that what you did when you said you doubted she'd hold up in the modern era?

[idigTexas 2,330]

Yes....and have since decided it's a worthless exercise. 

[spystud13 2,371]

Forgetting the argument for a minute, E:60 has a damn good segment on Lindsey this week. It will replay plenty, but 11:00a Monday on ESPNews is one of them. 

[hookem48 4,837]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 2:26 PM, perfectchaos007 said:

To her credit, if NASCAR had a women’s league like most other sports, she would have dozens of career wins

but she would have had to back up her mouth

[hookem48 4,837]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 9:36 AM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Now we're speculating on future greats ?  Modern athletes have the benefit of modern training methods, modern equipment, better technology all around.   The greats of the past didn't do shit in the off season compared to todays 24/7/365 training athletes.

Tennis is maybe the best example. Rackets today that make every player a little harder hitting, and the volleyball net sized racket heads have bigger sweet spots, and more ball generating speed.

Would love to see modern players play with a wooden racket 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

Would love to see modern players play with a wooden racket 

Hilarity would ensue for a while. Would slow the game down a bit.  Loved playing with both wood and metal rackets, but my TAD Davis wood racket was my favorite of all time.  

[hookem48 4,837]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Hilarity would ensue for a while. Would slow the game down a bit.  Loved playing with both wood and metal rackets, but my TAD Davis wood racket was my favorite of all time.  

I remember going from wood to a T3 metal and then graphite composite but quit playing before Prince came out with that big headed aluminum, never played with a big headed racket.

[texasdago 7,767]

Reading some perspectives of whether skiing is a sport is beyond baffling to me.  I consider golf a sport but if you say golf is a sport and this is not??

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 minute ago, texasdago said:

Reading some perspectives of whether skiing is a sport is beyond baffling to me.  I consider golf a sport but if you say golf is a sport and this is not??

 

 

GOTT IN HIMMEL THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL.

[texasdago 7,767]

Female skiers have some of the biggest nads on the mountain...

 

[wood 11,763]

2 hours ago, hookem48 said:

but she would have had to back up her mouth

Yep. Hell, there's an all-female open-wheel racing category now, & I doubt she'd do much better in it than she did in IndyCar or NASCAR.

[Nolacycling 893]

How soon we forget.

Babe Didrikson. Hands down.

Men-Jim Thorpe

 

[spystud13 2,371]

Gee, no one has mentioned her on this entire thread.