Pro-Life School Walkout

[Anastasis 23,481]

5 hours ago, SKJ said:

Having been something disqualifies an observation.

I see...

That's very weak

No, it doesn't disqualify any observation. I was just being an asshole. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Anastasis

[bad_teammate 13,224]

19 hours ago, TahoeHorn said:

I'll assure you that I can find all kinds of causes to get 75%.

Do you need to be told how much your assurances are worth? Not much. I'm not sure I know of someone whose insight into the minds of kids is less valuable or interesting.

But assuming your insight into kids is valuable, which it certainly is not, why do student populations not already do this? Why are kids not skipping en masse all over the nation? Why do they not constantly drum up excuses that would please the LEFTIST MENACE in schools and choose LIBERAL COMMUNIST protest issues that would sway their SOCIALIST SYMPATHIZER teachers and admins to let them run amok?

Past that, how would a school, practically speaking, punish 75% of its student population? Please answer.

At the end of the day, the vast majority of a school's power lies only in its ability to motivate parents to act on their children. And the children themselves, by and large, do not actually want to skip school. If they wanted to, they would do it far more often.

Your view on this has the intellectual depth of a bad comedy routine. You talking about kids sounds like Ron White talking about how much his wife loves to shop, only he's funny and you're tedious.

Them gall-darned kids wanna skip school all day every day and its only Principal Johnson's paddle keepin 'em from doin' it!

You "think" and "believe" school districts altered policy to accommodate liberal protest. Do you know? Do you have evidence? Or is it all reliant on your eternally-aggrieved and perpetually-hurt feelings?

[Brisketexan 105,298]

51 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You "think" and "believe" school districts altered policy to accommodate liberal protest. Do you know? Do you have evidence? Or is it all reliant on your eternally-aggrieved and perpetually-hurt feelings?

Nobody is more butthurt snowflake than old white guys like Tahoe.  Nobody.

 

[Incredulity 11,683]

Politics aside;

 

Not sure I have seen a more punchable face than Hogg.  Holy lord.

[hpslugga 4,062]

11 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Politics aside;

 

Not sure I have seen a more punchable face than Hogg.  Holy lord.

"Politics aside"

lol

[Incredulity 11,683]

Ted Cruz too,  happy?

That kids smug grin is factually punchable.

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

He does look like a douche. Means nothing beyond that. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,797]

50 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Politics aside;

 

Not sure I have seen a more punchable face than Hogg.  Holy lord.

What do you have against Lou Diamond Phillips?

[Newdoc 3,452]

11 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

What do you have against Lou Diamond Phillips?

I can see that but I can't get this comparison out of my mind.

I hope the kid realizes he's being used by the liberal conglomerate and his mom.  Fame can be intoxicating and poisonous.

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

6 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

I can see that but I can't get this comparison out of my mind.

I hope the kid realizes he's being used by the liberal conglomerate and his mom.  Fame can be intoxicating and poisonous.

It's weird how almost every attack is directly aimed at the kids and not the supposed sinister grandmasters pulling the strings from the shadows.

[ndawg 1,242]

I do have to agree with the part of the conservative response that questions whether it's ethical for the broader liberal movement to put these kids on a pedestal.

They made a wonderful statement, and should have the privilege of going back to being young adults and growing up, not be used as an instrument to galvanize the liberal and independent bases. Even if they don't mind the attention today, it's hard to imagine they won't end up with more and more expectations piled on them. The minute they get caught with some pot or experimenting with drugs, for instance, they're going to receive so much negative attention from conservatives.

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

Meh. These kids are survivors of a preventable atrocity. They want to speak out about it. They want change. There's nothing wrong with that, regardless of what the Wags of the world say, and there's really nothing wrong with helping facilitate their message if that's what they desire.

I doubt they care that much about negative conservative attention at this point. Any real conservative would applaud the constitutional freedoms these kids are exercising. Hogg has already received a lifetime's worth of negative attention from conservatives. He responded to Laura Ingraham in the best way possible, by attacking her bottom line and making her squeal. As far as I can tell, the only thing "conservatives" have on him is a college rejection letter from one school, the fact that he cusses like a sailor (who fucking cares, snowflakes?), and he's publicly saying things that they don't want to hear. Frankly, it's hilarious. They can't do anything to stop him, and viciously attacking him for it does nothing but make him more visible. Keep it up.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,527]

10 minutes ago, ndawg said:

I do have to agree with the part of the conservative response that questions whether it's ethical for the broader liberal movement to put these kids on a pedestal.

At what point do we give these kids credit for their own agency? All this bellyaching about "putting them on a pedestal" is weird. The kids are calling attention to themselves. They are getting it. Their protest is working. Attention leading to action is the point. Laura Ingraham just learned the difference between astroturfing and a real movement: teeth. What's the problem?

Edited March 30, 2018 by Bozo_Casanova

[ndawg 1,242]

Yeah, I agree with their message. I guess I should clarify what I'm thinking: I don't think they should be anointed as leaders of the political movements that their message is advancing. I worry that they will be, but I'm not criticizing the platform they've been given thus far.

Edited March 30, 2018 by ndawg

[Brisketexan 105,298]

Keep attacking these kids who are on the cusp of voting age.  It's fantastic.

On one hand, kids are little idiots who won't get their faces out of their phones and engage....but then when they do, they are pilloried and villified in every possible way.

When I was 9, I was well aware of and quite concerned about the Iranian hostage crisis.  I feared a war.  Because I was a fucking human being, and two countries were in a hot dispute, and mine was one of them.

When I was 12, I wrote a detailed letter to my Congressman about a government shutdown that cut off my dad's paycheck.  It was my idea.  My letter.

When I was 16, I volunteered for both a statewide and local political campaign.

And when I turned 18, I voted in the very next election, and haven't skipped one since.

Keep telling these folks ranging from ages 14-18 that they're just pawns and idiots.  Say it as loudly and insultingly as you can.  You're helping some folks develop their long-term political beliefs and ideals.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,527]

Just now, ndawg said:

Yeah, I agree with their message. I guess I should clarify what I'm thinking: I don't think they should be anointed as leaders of the political movements that their message is advancing. I worry that they will be.

I'm sure you are right, and they will likely get way over their skis, but for now they are doing OK. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,527]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Keep attacking these kids who are on the cusp of voting age.  It's fantastic.

On one hand, kids are little idiots who won't get their faces out of their phones and engage....but then when they do, they are pilloried and villified in every possible way.

When I was 9, I was well aware of and quite concerned about the Iranian hostage crisis.  I feared a war.  Because I was a fucking human being, and two countries were in a hot dispute, and mine was one of them.

When I was 12, I wrote a detailed letter to my Congressman about a government shutdown that cut off my dad's paycheck.  It was my idea.  My letter.*

When I was 16, I volunteered for both a statewide and local political campaign.**

And when I turned 18, I voted in the very next election, and haven't skipped one since.***

Keep telling these folks ranging from ages 14-18 that they're just pawns and idiots.  Say it as loudly and insultingly as you can.  You're helping some folks develop their long-term political beliefs and ideals.

* Soros

** Soros

*** Soros

[Brisketexan 105,298]

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

* Soros

** Soros

*** Soros

You have a point.  I do recall that translating my letter to my Congressman from Hungarian was particularly difficult, as I was weak on Finno-Ugric languages at the time.

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

1 minute ago, ndawg said:

Yeah, I agree with their message. I guess I should clarify what I'm thinking: I don't think they should be anointed as leaders of the political movements that their message is advancing. I worry that they will be.

This is nothing but a (probably inadvertent) concern troll.

If the people we have elected won't do what the people want, others must take their place. That's how democracy works. The American people favor stricter gun control by majority, and our elected officials have chosen to stay on the NRA gravy train instead. If you don't want one of these kids eventually taking office, vote against him in 20xx.

[ndawg 1,242]

3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

This is nothing but a (probably inadvertent) concern troll.

If the people we have elected won't do what the people want, others must take their place. That's how democracy works. The American people favor stricter gun control by majority, and our elected officials have chosen to stay on the NRA gravy train instead. If you don't want one of these kids eventually taking office, vote against him in 20xx.

But don't ever talk about the risks associated with thrusting an intelligent, well intentioned but extremely unseasoned youth into a position of authority, solely because they possess a huge amount of social capital? Is that right? Just vote against them, but never discuss it?

Come on, a concern troll is deliberately using fake concern in order to move the goalposts or distract from issues. I'm not attempting to distract from anything, just stating my worry that this could go very south for them in the years ahead. I realize now I didn't exactly think through my original comment -- I've got no problem stating unequivocally that this does not impact how I perceive gun legislation one iota, nor do I intend to throw a wet blanket on what they're doing *today*.

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

Just now, ndawg said:

But don't ever talk about the risks associated with thrusting an intelligent, well intentioned but extremely unseasoned youth into a position of authority, solely because they possess a huge amount of social capital? Is that right? Just vote against them, but never discuss it?

Come on, a concern troll is deliberately using fake concern in order to move the goalposts or distract from issues. I'm not attempting to distract from anything, just stating my worry that this could go very south for them in the years ahead. I realize now I didn't exactly think through my original comment -- I've got no problem stating unequivocally that this does not impact how I perceive gun legislation one iota, nor do I intend to throw a wet blanket on what they're doing *today*.

Who is doing this? They're just fucking talking. No one is putting them in any position of authority. Are you fucking insane?

[ndawg 1,242]

6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Who is doing this? They're just fucking talking. No one is putting them in any position of authority. Are you fucking insane?

I was replying to this sentence of yours: "If you don't want one of these kids eventually taking office, vote against him in 20xx." You can take the bit of my post that you bolded as a direct response to that sentence. You presented the hypothetical, and I directly addressed it.

I do kind of feel like I'm taking crazy pills at this point, so I'll shut up now.

Edited March 30, 2018 by ndawg

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

Okay I gotcha.

[Brisketexan 105,298]

Malala won the Nobel Peace Price (and deservedly so) at age 17.  Her efforts with respect to the education of women and children in her world have yielded real and meaningful results, and continue to do so.

In 1776, several of our "founding fathers" were quite young -- many under 30 (including signatories of the Declaration of Independence), and some even under the age of 25. The Marquis de Lafayette helped turn the tide in our favor at the age of 19.

Alexander the Great and Joan of Arc were leading forces in battle at ages 18 and 17, respectively.

These "kids" are human beings, with real thoughts and experiences.  Yeah, maybe they're not as grizzled and wise (and jaded, and disillusioned) as old fuckers like us.  So the fuck what?  Keep insulting them.  I have a hunch that's gonna work out GREAT for y'all in the long-term.  Just FANTASTIC.  They're sure to be your loyal political allies for decades to come, I can feel it.

[Newdoc 3,452]

 

It continually remains "hands off the children". It's so damn convenient for the liberal talking points. You don't think the progressives know that?  Now, Hogg (and other students) are being used.  Hogg appears to have moderate viewpoints if he is telling the truth when asked to clarify his stance on gun rights. That doesn't mean the far left won't push that moderate message out and use him and the others to pull away as many rights as possible.

As for Hogg, the guy is 17. Unfiltered interviews show him as obstinate, he curses like a sailor and tells the olds to FO.  He ain't Bambi so stop treating him like he is.  It was extraordinarily stupid for Ingraham and right wing pundits to attack his personhood and character in public however.   They should have attacked the crisis opportunity organizations that went deep in and used the Parkland shooting for attacking the 2nd amendment.

The March for Our Lives is  thinly veiled attempt at voter registration aimed at those who want "gun control".  The facade is "ending gun violence". Only someone twisted wouldn't want that. But there are no demonstrations or discussion about an almost complete social and mental safety net breakdown, cowardly security officers, a crackpot FBI team, and an inept sheriff and his department? Do we shrug our shoulders when a nutcase sends bombs across a city. What about the unhinged loner student that builds pipe bombs and blows up classrooms?  Will the bump stock ban and "scary" gun ban eliminate those threats?  You are a fool if you don't think that is a real possibility. I guess we just wait and react to the next tragedy?  Then we will all still be stupidly taking our shoes off at the scanners.

PS - Joan of Arc and Alexander the Great are false equivalencies. The age comparison is all you got.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Newdoc

[Bozo_Casanova 26,527]

“Crisis opportunity organizations” looolol

[In re UofA 29]

I’m all for activism, but as a high school student I would have joined a walk out at any opportunity and for any cause.

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

Your attitude might have been slightly different if your school had been shot up, just saying. 

5 hours ago, Newdoc said:

 

Words. Really stupid words. 

Get some professional help. 

[troph 24,905]

To the OP I’m fine with it, kids need to be able to organize and speak up. I also don’t mind adults helping them do it. 10-20 mins out of the day for a civics lesson in activism is a good thing

[SKJ 1,311]

As to the sidebars in the conversation, this sums it up for me

[Newdoc 3,452]

15 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Your attitude might have been slightly different if your school had been shot up, just saying. 

Get some professional help. 

You have nothing but ad hominem attacks. That's all you had on shag and all you have here.  I'm pretty sure you're sevenz sock.

Hogg has chosen to insert himself awkwardly and fully into the gun control debate with the only qualification being unlucky to be in a school shooting (and somewhat lucky not to get killed).  His opinions on topics he has no real grasp of vacillate with every interview where his doesn't have scripted lines. Should he have every right to speak - absolutely. Should he not expect to get pushback and treated like an adult when he goes after the rights of millions? Absolutely not.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,587]

  His opinions on topics he has no real grasp of vacillate with every interview where his doesn't have scripted lines. Should he have every right to speak - absolutely. Should he not expect to get pushback and treated like an adult when he goes after the rights of millions? Absolutely not.

Pretty sure he expects to get push back. The problem is the GOP elected a child as president and their media arm is powered by infantile magic-think of alternative facts with a heavy constant sewage spigot of playground name calling. They can't treat Hogg like an adult because they have no idea what one is.


Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk

[Bozo_Casanova 26,527]

You have nothing but ad hominem attacks. That's all you had on shag and all you have here.  I'm pretty sure you're sevenz sock.
Hogg has chosen to insert himself awkwardly and fully into the gun control debate with the only qualification being unlucky to be in a school shooting (and somewhat lucky not to get killed).  His opinions on topics he has no real grasp of vacillate with every interview where his doesn't have scripted lines. Should he have every right to speak - absolutely. Should he not expect to get pushback and treated like an adult when he goes after the rights of millions? Absolutely not.

Oh, Jesus, not the BRIAR PATCH!!1!1

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

3 hours ago, Newdoc said:

You have nothing but ad hominem attacks. That's all you had on shag and all you have here.  I'm pretty sure you're sevenz sock.

Hogg has chosen to insert himself awkwardly and fully into the gun control debate with the only qualification being unlucky to be in a school shooting (and somewhat lucky not to get killed).  His opinions on topics he has no real grasp of vacillate with every interview where his doesn't have scripted lines. Should he have every right to speak - absolutely. Should he not expect to get pushback and treated like an adult when he goes after the rights of millions? Absolutely not.

Yeah sure, pushback based on facts and reason, not psychotic crisis actor assertions and the like.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,527]

Don’t forget “crisis opportunity organizations”

[VRHorn 718]

This site would be better without the fucking idiots. I know doctors are usually morons outside of their specialty (Ben Carson) but newdoc is taking it to the next level.

[troph 24,905]

You have nothing but ad hominem attacks. That's all you had on shag and all you have here.  I'm pretty sure you're sevenz sock.
Hogg has chosen to insert himself awkwardly and fully into the gun control debate with the only qualification being unlucky to be in a school shooting (and somewhat lucky not to get killed).  His opinions on topics he has no real grasp of vacillate with every interview where his doesn't have scripted lines. Should he have every right to speak - absolutely. Should he not expect to get pushback and treated like an adult when he goes after the rights of millions? Absolutely not.

There is zero basis for allowing an 18 year old with a felony to obtain an assault rifle, same day, at a gun show. It’s pretty simple really. Mandatory background checks, 21 years or older, no capacity to discharge more than 10 rounds with out reloading.

There are not millions who need the right to circumvent background checks, buy same day, and need assault rifles that discharge more than 10 rounds without reloading.

[Anastasis 23,481]

There is zero basis for allowing an 18 year old with a felony to obtain an assault rifle, same day, at a gun show. It’s pretty simple really. Mandatory background checks, 21 years or older, no capacity to discharge more than 10 rounds with out reloading.

There are not millions who need the right to circumvent background checks, buy same day, and need assault rifles that discharge more than 10 rounds without reloading.

I’m willing to meet you on 2 out of 3. Are you willing to accept that.

[troph 24,905]

I’ll play... which two...?

Universal background checks
7 day waiting period
No high capacity magazines/stocks, etc.

[Anastasis 23,481]

NICS checks on all transfers, with caveat that all FFLs are required to process free NICS checks and/or NICS system is open to public. 

21 year age limit on all firearm sales.

[SKJ 1,311]

NICS checks on all transfers, with caveat that all FFLs are required to process free NICS checks and/or NICS system is open to public. 
21 year age limit on all firearm sales.

Just pointing this out, but it's almost impossible to regulate private transfers unless you're going to build and maintain a complete registry of all firearms.

That will be a doomsday item for most gun owners

[Anastasis 23,481]

Just now, SKJ said:

Just pointing this out, but it's almost impossible to regulate private transfers unless you're going to build and maintain a complete registry of all firearms.

Nonsense. Make the penalty for an unprocessed transfer severe enough, and put the ATF to work on enforcing gun laws instead of push paper on suppressor transfers, and it will work itself out.  

[SKJ 1,311]

Yeah, there's no penalty that would stop any sophisticated criminals.

Maybe that would stop some shill purchases, but really... Unless it's Registered gun, it would make zero difference

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

I see we're back to "we shouldn't pass any laws because someone might break them"

[SKJ 1,311]

That's not my point at all. I'm just speaking about the effectiveness of the law impacting a segment of the intended purpose.

I'm neither for or against gun control.

[troph 24,905]

NICS checks on all transfers, with caveat that all FFLs are required to process free NICS checks and/or NICS system is open to public. 
21 year age limit on all firearm sales.

I’d rather trade age for round capacity

[bad_teammate 13,224]

Anastasis is very noble for wanting to sacrifice others' rights in order to make sure his are completely unaffected. lol

[Anastasis 23,481]

But gun rights advocates aren’t willing to compromise!

 

[Anastasis 23,481]

I’d rather trade age for round capacity

I’d rather not, but you’re gonna have to give more details on that aspect. What size limit, what evidence did you use to arrive at that capacity, how do you handle the millions of standard capacity mags in circulation, what restrictions are you placing on leos? Age and nics are much easier things to come to a compromise solution on, and both actually have the potential to actually impact broader gun violence.

[bad_teammate 13,224]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I’d rather not, but you’re gonna have to give more details on that aspect. What size limit, what evidence did you use to arrive at that capacity, how do you handle the millions of standard capacity mags in circulation, what restrictions are you placing on leos? Age and nics are much easier things to come to a compromise solution on, and both actually have the potential to actually impact broader gun violence.

 

They're much easier things for you to compromise on because they don't affect you. Your position isn't about efficacy, either in the short term or long term, it's about making sure your ox isn't the one getting gored. You're fine with people being old enough to die for the country but not able to enjoy the same freedoms as you when they get back from service? That isn't compromise, that's distraction.