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Pro-Life School Walkout


TahoeHorn

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14 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

Ya moron, the policies aren't content neutral.  I have repeatedly referenced the NYC policy.  They clearly supported this and had a policy which was not their normal policy.

 

The whole point of the thread is about places that changed their policy for this event.

Local issue is local - don't leave BFE for NYC.

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17 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

Ya moron, the policies aren't content neutral.  I have repeatedly referenced the NYC policy.  They clearly supported this and had a policy which was not their normal policy.

 

The whole point of the thread is about places that changed their policy for this event.

I note that you ignored my direct response. 

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3 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

Political protest is political.  It should not be free from consequences.  A number of posters have addressed this.  If you feel strongly about an issue you should be prepared to pay the price.  Gandhi, MLK and Mandela all went to jail for their beliefs.  Willingly.  If a student isn't prepared to take the hit for his political protest he should go to class.

It appears that NYC did not want to made an example of. It sounds like you think that's unfair, in that it casts those who don't bend in a bad light. THATS THE POINT.

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6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It has already been explained to you multiple times that many of the walkouts did face consequences for the walkouts. What do you suggest, that we jail them for it? Taking an unexcused absence from school isn't against the law.

it offends him that NYC schools something  left-wing something politics left-wing something something bugtussle

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I believe the NYC school system supported this demonstration.   I believe that they enjoyed the excuse of winking at it - tacitly encouraging it.  I think their treatment would have been very different had the rally been pro-gun, sponsored by the NRA, pro-GOP and had Trump as the headliner.  That letter from the school system would have looked very different.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Capacity is relevant. It has proven to be in numerous cases where the shooter was overpowered during a mag change.  2-3 seconds is a fucking eternity when your life is on the line.  And also, many of these shooters are NOT experts.  Shit, I'm a pretty experienced shooter, and I've fumbled more than one mag change.  And I wasn't nervous as shit in the midst of committing a heinous crime.  Mag size does matter.

Your last sentence is fascinating.  Folks who are upset about kids (kids like them, or kids like they have at home) getting splattered over their school walls are just regurgitating MSM and celebrity talking points, and are not motivated individually, for any internal or individual reasons.

Yet those folks who have jumped up and donated to the NRA...well, THEY aren't being manipulated at all.  THEY are free-thinkers, by God.  No lobbying money or massive PR blitz by the NRA has influenced them, no way.

My daughter is a high school junior.  She doesn't consume network news (hint: few people under the age of 45 do).  She's a gun-owner and regular shooter herself.  She asked for and got for Christmas a few years ago....a 10/22.  She loves it, she enjoys shooting it.  But she also sees a circumstance where her peers got blown away during Algebra.  And she sees that it keeps happening, time and time again.  And she's motivated by (1) self-preservation and (2) giving a shit about her fellow human beings to conclude that something need be done.  So, she's on board with it.

And the more that folks like you call her stupid and immature and just a manipulated tool, the more you are guaranteeing that she -- and tens of millions of kids like her -- will NEVER stand on your side of the aisle.

You think that folks supporting the NRA are pure-motivated unmanipulated free-thinkers, and folks who think we need to make policy changes because schoolkids are regularly being shot to pieces are manipulated tools.  That dichotomy of thinking is not going to serve you well.

And this.  Yet again.  Because the OP's question was stupid.  Content-neutral rules for acts of speech and civil disobedience.  You know, like how the Constitution works.

If capacity size was relevant then a decades worth of data between 1994 and 2004 when the ban was implemented would have seen that validated.  It didn't.  Because it's not. 
 
As for your daughter, what do you think will do more to protect her?  A ban similar to what was implemented in 1994 that was a complete and utter statistical failure?  More regulatory layers?  We saw complete and total failures at both the state and federal levels in Parkland. 
 
Or what we saw in Maryland just week later, where an armed guard put a kid in a box before he could proceed his little spree? 
 
Now tell me, what do you think the odds another shooter will even step foot in that area code any time soon?  Or do you also think it an anomaly that all these copy-cat occurrences take place in the same manner?  Why not malls?  Airports?  Congested banks with people packed in like cattle?   Gun free zones....game preserves for the deranged.  And they know it. 
 
And yes, these children are being 100% manipulated.  Further, giving these children moral imprimatur is dangerous.  Putting them forth conveniently before the midterms the left are so desperate to regain....in an attempt to make these ideas above criticism and a dangerous amount of credulity.
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9 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

I believe the NYC school system supported this demonstration.   I believe that they enjoyed the excuse of winking at it - tacitly encouraging it.  I think their treatment would have been very different had the rally been pro-gun, sponsored by the NRA, pro-GOP and had Trump as the headliner.  That letter from the school system would have looked very different.

 

 

Yeah there's nothing wrong with that. It's not against the law, and there's nothing you can do about it. Just deal with it and stop being old and mad.

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1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah there's nothing wrong with that. It's not against the law, and there's nothing you can do about it. Just deal with it and stop being old and mad.

Dude, it's the Internet.  This is the place for that.  In real life I'm happy and serve doughnuts.  Actually I get a kick out of this too.  But sadly I am old.  I don't know how to deal with that.  Suggestions?

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1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:
If capacity size was relevant then a decades worth of data between 1994 and 2004 when the ban was implemented would have seen that validated.  It didn't.  Because it's not. 
 
As for your daughter, what do you think will do more to protect her?  A ban similar to what was implemented in 1994 that was a complete and utter statistical failure?  More regulatory layers?  We saw complete and total failures at both the state and federal levels in Parkland. 
 
Or what we saw in Maryland just week later, where an armed guard put a kid in a box before he could proceed his little spree? 
 
Now tell me, what do you think the odds another shooter will even step foot in that area code any time soon?  Or do you also think it an anomaly that all these copy-cat occurrences take place in the same manner?  Why not malls?  Airports?  Congested banks with people packed in like cattle?   Gun free zones....game preserves for the deranged.  And they know it. 
 
And yes, these children are being 100% manipulated.  Further, giving these children moral imprimatur is dangerous.  Putting them forth conveniently before the midterms the left are so desperate to regain....in an attempt to make these ideas above criticism and a dangerous amount of credulity.

And again, the NRA-lovers are NOT being manipulated.  

FASCINATING take.  The inability to see outside of one's bubble always amazes me.

Also, the false-dichotomy mutual-exclusivity straw man repeatedly evident in your posts is likewise fascinating.  I don't see or agree with the either-or strawmen that you seem so eager to set up and knock down.

I think a different high-cap mag ban (and one allowed to remain in place) could HELP.  Not 100% CURE, but HELP.  William Ruger agrees with me.

I also think having an armed and trained resource officer at schools is an EXCELLENT idea.  It helped in Maryland.  I think it's a good policy.

I think streamlining and making the background check process more broadly-applicable will help.

I think that imposing some checks involving mental health will help.

I also know that shooting sprees like this saw an increase after the advent of the modern high-capacity rifle boom, which started around 35-40 years ago.

"Giving these children moral imprimatur is dangerous."  Wow.  I'm just gonna leave that out there, to shine in all its glory.  Wow.  How dare the sheep lined up for slaughter speak up.

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5 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

Dude, it's the Internet.  This is the place for that.  In real life I'm happy and serve doughnuts.  Actually I get a kick out of this too.  But sadly I am old.  I don't know how to deal with that.  Suggestions?

Same suggestion I have for all you Boomers.

Ive+only+got+blade+runner+gifs+_590c5e6d

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I am not going to read even three pages of this.

Did anyone point out the contextual relevance of students walking out of classrooms that the grown ups failed to keep safe? And then, by contrast, the irrelevance of students walking out over any other political gripe?

Anyone remember when conservatives had the ability to perceive nuance?

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4 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Did anyone point out the contextual relevance of students walking out of classrooms that the grown ups failed to keep safe? And then, by contrast, the irrelevance of students walking out over any other political gripe?

I pointed that out but it just whooshed over some heads.

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10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And again, the NRA-lovers are NOT being manipulated.  

FASCINATING take.  The inability to see outside of one's bubble always amazes me.

Also, the false-dichotomy mutual-exclusivity straw man repeatedly evident in your posts is likewise fascinating.  I don't see or agree with the either-or strawmen that you seem so eager to set up and knock down.

I think a different high-cap mag ban (and one allowed to remain in place) could HELP.  Not 100% CURE, but HELP.  William Ruger agrees with me.

I also think having an armed and trained resource officer at schools is an EXCELLENT idea.  It helped in Maryland.  I think it's a good policy.

I think streamlining and making the background check process more broadly-applicable will help.

I think that imposing some checks involving mental health will help.

I also know that shooting sprees like this saw an increase after the advent of the modern high-capacity rifle boom, which started around 35-40 years ago.

"Giving these children moral imprimatur is dangerous."  Wow.  I'm just gonna leave that out there, to shine in all its glory.  Wow.  How dare the sheep lined up for slaughter speak up.

The NRA isn’t propping up little political human shields ahead of the midterms…but yeah, it’s the same thing.

If mag bans “could” help, why didn’t it when it was implemented for a full decade? 

And we can’t fully vet and enforce existing NICS programs RIGHT NOW.  Today.  So reconcile how more robust checks will be effective when we can’t manage the ones we currently have?  And beyond that, what will they find?  This kid was reported to the local LE officials 30+ times.  The FBI multiple times.  What exactly is the trigger here? 

And mental health?  OK?  Again, what is the trigger?  Being sent to detention?

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7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I pointed that out but it just whooshed over some heads.

It kind of flopped in the mud at my feet.  Government institutions like schools shouldn't engage in political protest, regardless of the merits.  That's for other institutions and individuals.  

 

The Left should give greater support to this principle than they do.  While schools are dominated by Lefties the military and the police are dominated by Righties.  It is even more dangerous for those institutions to put their thumb on the scales.

 

You should be VERY supportive of the principle of blind justice and apolitical government institutions.

 

It's fucking dangerous for schools to decide what politics they support.

 

We've got a President who doesn't get this principle.  I am the exact target audience you need to convince when/if the time comes to oust him.  You need to get a better sense of this issue of "thumb on the scales of justice".

Edited by TahoeHorn
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2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

The NRA isn’t propping up little political human shields ahead of the midterms…but yeah, it’s the same thing.

Just to be clear, who, specifically, is it you imagine is propping the high school kids up, and how, specifically, are they coordinating these efforts?

 

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2 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

It kind of flopped in the mud at my feet.  Government institutions like schools shouldn't engage in political protest, regardless of the merits.  That's for other institutions and individuals.  

 

The Left should give greater support to this principle than they do.  While schools are dominated by Lefties the military and the police are dominated by Righties.  It is even more dangerous for those institutions to put their thumb on the scales.

 

You should be VERY supportive of the principle of blind justice and apolitical government institutions.

@Brisketexan how many examples of "begging the question" can you find here? I see five. Impressive work, Tahoe. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

The NRA isn’t propping up little political human shields ahead of the midterms…but yeah, it’s the same thing.

If mag bans “could” help, why didn’t it when it was implemented for a full decade? 

And we can’t fully vet and enforce existing NICS programs RIGHT NOW.  Today.  So reconcile how more robust checks will be effective when we can’t manage the ones we currently have?  And beyond that, what will they find?  This kid was reported to the local LE officials 30+ times.  The FBI multiple times.  What exactly is the trigger here? 

And mental health?  OK?  Again, what is the trigger?  Being sent to detention?

Ummm, you DO realize that among the measures being proposed is to fix the NICS program so it's more robust and includes better data?  Hell, one of the things it seeks is to make ATF records digitized and searchable?

As for the kid being reported to local LEOs and the FBI...you're kind of making the point.  At present, there are few available legal triggers.  Creating some would be a good place to focus some efforts.

Same with mental health.  We swung the pendulum from "way too easy to institutionalize someone" to "you can't be committed unless you're threatening to kill yourself or someone else this exact moment."  There's a shitload of research, effort, and proposals on potential middle ground out there.  Let's tackle that.

The strident opposition to ANY additional gun regulations -- even though we already have several, and a libtard like Scalia said they are fine -- baffles me.  

The NRA isn't propping up human shields.  Instead, it's doing what it did for the 8 years of Obama -- "Y'all BETTER FREAK OUT!!! THEY'RE GONNA BAN ALL YOUR GUNS!"  Rudimentary and time-honored scare tactics, coupled with complete demonization of "the enemy" (which in this case, is teenagers who are just a bit sick of having to do active shooter drills as part of their school day, and who REALLY have a problem with seeing their classmates grey matter spattered in cinderblock walls).  It's fascinating that you think that angry kids are well-orchestrated manipulation by (who?  Soros?), but folks sitting on your side, well, they are in NO WAY influenced by the literally MILLIONS of dollars in propaganda disseminated by the NRA.  Truly, the psychology is fascinating.

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7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Just to be clear, who, specifically, is it you imagine is propping the high school kids up, and how, specifically, are they coordinating these efforts?

 

I'm sure the millions spent on transportations, podiums, cameras, lights, etc. and legal red tape it takes to orchestrate such a thing came from paypal?  And the identical talking points being echoed from the speakers, their media supporters, and celebrity endorsers came from Facebook memes?
 
Funny how pundits from both the left and the right are echoing the rare similar sentiment that this is all a play for the midterms. 
 
Funny how the playbook keep getting recycled.  Or do you not know who Cindy Sheehan is?  The left abandoned her when Obama was elected. She no longer fit the narrative. They'll abandon this latest turd too, as soon as he no longer serves their purposes.
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9 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

It kind of flopped in the mud at my feet.  Government institutions like schools shouldn't engage in political protest, regardless of the merits.  That's for other institutions and individuals.  

 

The Left should give greater support to this principle than they do.  While schools are dominated by Lefties the military and the police are dominated by Righties.  It is even more dangerous for those institutions to put their thumb on the scales.

 

You should be VERY supportive of the principle of blind justice and apolitical government institutions.

 

It's fucking dangerous for schools to decide what politics they support.

 

We've got a President who doesn't get this principle.  I am the exact target audience you need to convince when/if the time comes to oust him.  You need to get a better sense of this issue of "thumb on the scales of justice".

Tahoe, they want something done to stop people showing up to schools with a gun and killing students. If this is a "political" issue, it's only because the NRA has turned it into one in order to prevent the harm to their agenda that is necessary in order to safeguard our schools.

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14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Ummm, you DO realize that among the measures being proposed is to fix the NICS program so it's more robust and includes better data?  Hell, one of the things it seeks is to make ATF records digitized and searchable?

As for the kid being reported to local LEOs and the FBI...you're kind of making the point.  At present, there are few available legal triggers.  Creating some would be a good place to focus some efforts.

Same with mental health.  We swung the pendulum from "way too easy to institutionalize someone" to "you can't be committed unless you're threatening to kill yourself or someone else this exact moment."  There's a shitload of research, effort, and proposals on potential middle ground out there.  Let's tackle that.

The strident opposition to ANY additional gun regulations -- even though we already have several, and a libtard like Scalia said they are fine -- baffles me.  

The NRA isn't propping up human shields.  Instead, it's doing what it did for the 8 years of Obama -- "Y'all BETTER FREAK OUT!!! THEY'RE GONNA BAN ALL YOUR GUNS!"  Rudimentary and time-honored scare tactics, coupled with complete demonization of "the enemy" (which in this case, is teenagers who are just a bit sick of having to do active shooter drills as part of their school day, and who REALLY have a problem with seeing their classmates grey matter spattered in cinderblock walls).  It's fascinating that you think that angry kids are well-orchestrated manipulation by (who?  Soros?), but folks sitting on your side, well, they are in NO WAY influenced by the literally MILLIONS of dollars in propaganda disseminated by the NRA.  Truly, the psychology is fascinating.

You're back on your strawman.  You do realize for decade over decade ground has been given, then given, then given again on gun regulations, right?  There are literally thousands of existing regulations on the books (no pun intended) right now.  But yeah, let's pile on more and ignore the single biggest consistent factor in each and every one of these shootings - whether it an elementary school, theatre, military base, or college campus:  they are all gun free zones.
 
Quotes like this don't engender a lot of sympathy or mutual support:
 
“When they give us that inch, that bump stock ban, we will take a mile.”
 
"teenagers who are just a bit sick of having to do active shooter drills as part of their school day, and who REALLY have a problem with seeing their classmates grey matter spattered in cinderblock walls"
 
This is hyperbole laced bullshit and you know it....
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8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

"The left". Got it. Not a fantasy at all. 

 

Again, who specifically and how, specifically?

 

You do know an article came out four days ago confirming the DNC was funding the march, don't you....Act Blue specifically.  A DNC PAC.

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10 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Tahoe, they want something done to stop people showing up to schools with a gun and killing students. If this is a "political" issue, it's only because the NRA has turned it into one in order to prevent the harm to their agenda that is necessary in order to safeguard our schools.

You haven't been getting my point.

 

This is all politics and there is nothing wrong with that.  If people want to protest I'm fine with that.  My complaint is with government institutions, which I believe are supposed to stay out of politics, becoming involved.

 

Whether it's schools, police, the military, the post office or the national parks, there are rules about political involvement.

 

I think many schools (e.g. the NYC schools) changed their policies about absence in order to provide support for this movement.  I cry foul.  We have a problem with a lot of "educators" who don't understand their obligations.

 

You may or may not have noticed that we also have a President who doesn't understand when politics is, and isn't appropriate.  We have a military which has a superior track record for understanding their obligations in this area.

 

Ultimately our democracy depends on the citizenry understanding the importance of keeping certain parts of out government institutions out of politics.  You don't get to say "It's ok if they're right".

Edited by TahoeHorn
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4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:
You're back on your strawman.  You do realize for decade over decade ground has been given, then given, then given again on gun regulations, right?  There are literally thousands of existing regulations on the books (no pun intended) right now.  But yeah, let's pile on more and ignore the single biggest consistent factor in each and every one of these shootings - whether it an elementary school, theatre, military base, or college campus:  they are all gun free zones.
 
Quotes like this don't engender a lot of sympathy or mutual support:
 
“When they give us that inch, that bump stock ban, we will take a mile.”
 
"teenagers who are just a bit sick of having to do active shooter drills as part of their school day, and who REALLY have a problem with seeing their classmates grey matter spattered in cinderblock walls"
 
This is hyperbole laced bullshit and you know it....

Well, it's hyperbole-laced bullshit that echoes words that are actually coming out of the mouths of a shitload of school kids in the past few weeks.  I mean, these are words they are actually saying -- and not just the ones at the marches.  My daughter, her pals, etc.

Ignore them.  Denigrate them.  Call them fools and tools.  Keep it up.  They're listening.  They hear you loud and clear.  You're right about one thing -- they DO have something to say at the ballot box.  And you're guaranteeing that they're going to be motivated as hell to say it.

Edited by Brisketexan
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You haven't been getting my point.  

This is all politics and there is nothing wrong with that.  If people want to protest I'm fine with that.  My complaint is with government institutions, which I believe are supposed to stay out of politics, becoming involved.

 

Whether it's schools, police, the military, the post office or the national parks, there are rules about political involvement.

 

I think many schools (e.g. the NYC schools) changed their policies about absence in order to provide support for this movement.  I cry foul.  We have a problem with a lot of "educators" who don't understand their obligations.

 

You may or may not have noticed that we also have a President who doesn't understand when politics is, and isn't appropriate.  We have a military which has a superior track record for understanding their obligations in this area.

 

Ultimately our democracy depends on the citizenry understanding the importance of keeping certain parts of out government institutions out of politics.  You don't get to say "It's ok if they're right".

 

I and others already responded to your Central point directly and note that you did note treat the response.

 

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1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Tahoe, I congratulate you. Less than a week into this new board you’ve found an ideologically like minded poster who makes even sillier points in than you on your own threads.

 

You don’t have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other guy, right?

 

That's way more important to you than to me.  It's not the way I approach this.

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1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I and others already responded to your Central point directly and note that you did note treat the response.

 

I didn't catch it.  You say a lot of nonsense and sometime I just get glassy eyed and move to the next post.

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7 hours ago, BabaYaga said:
100%  And to expand on that.  This isn't about guns.  Not really.  This is about midterms.  And anyone with an IQ above room temp can see that.  Funny how about of kids suddenly were regurgitating identical talking points as major networks and celebrity figures.  Coordinated and costing millions upon millions to orchestrate.  But it's organic....sure.....these poor kids are being used.  Plain and simple.  They are political human shields.  And then they'll be discarded.  Maybe a few can spin this into something.  But not most.  These Tide pod eating idiots are now experts on the issue?  I don't think so. 
 
And of course the bewildered media has the audacity to question "why have NRA donations suddenly increased?"

How fucking disingenuous can a motherfucker be? It's not organic that the kids of this nation are tired of school shootings?

They're being used?

Come the fuck on, man. 

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How fucking disingenuous can a motherfucker be? It's not organic that the kids of this nation are tired of school shootings?
They're being used?
Come the fuck on, man. 

Nope. The only thing organic is how NRA supporters react. Thought you all got that memo.
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6 hours ago, TahoeHorn said:

I didn't catch it.  You say a lot of nonsense and sometime I just get glassy eyed and move to the next post.

Lulz. Such bs. More like, “I intentionally skipped your post / arguement because it refutes what I posted and makes me look like a dumbass”

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1 minute ago, Washpark said:

Lulz. Such bs. More like, “I intentionally skipped your post / arguement because it refutes what I posted and makes me look like a dumbass”

Post it.  I have no idea what it is.

 

It's unpossible for me to be a dumbass.

 

You're not the real washpark.

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Well, you simply don't understand.

The Soros Web spans the country.  Hidden. Until mass shooting of the month happens and then the cells spring into action.

Talking points. Check.

Subsequent (or is it?) funding. Check.

It almost makes you wonder if it's all a put on. Unless you're a Sandy Hook Truther, then of course, you know it is. 

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7 hours ago, TahoeHorn said:

I believe the NYC school system supported this demonstration.   I believe that they enjoyed the excuse of winking at it - tacitly encouraging it.  I think their treatment would have been very different had the rally been pro-gun, sponsored by the NRA, pro-GOP and had Trump as the headliner.  That letter from the school system would have looked very different.

 

 

You should send the superintendent a sternly worded letter. 

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26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

OLD: Kids these days are lazy and apathetic and should stop staring at their phones all day 

NEW: Kids these days are loud and arrogant and should stop organizing millions of people demanding change on gun policy

SAT Reading Comprehension Quiz:

The thread is about

A. Kids protesting

B. School policy about absence for politics

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36 minutes ago, William_Cannon said:


I hate this logic. Many of outlets laws are built on morals, such as laws against theft, rape, murder, and so on.. Why would this be any different?


Tapa

because we recognize that what we choose as right for us might not be what someone else chooses as right for them. and they should have that right to choose instead of the government dictating to them what a women can and can't do with her body. so again, so far as the government is concerned, we are pro-choice but personally, we are pro-life.

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2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

 

A question I ponder myself when the self professed house painter chimes in on the topic of violence.

 

Having been something disqualifies an observation.

I see...

That's very weak

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9 hours ago, TahoeHorn said:

 

 

It's fucking dangerous for schools to decide what politics they support.

 

I'm just spitballing here, just taking a flyer, but I suppose, just a guess, that schools just might support the idea that the protest of not enough being done to stop shootings AT SCHOOLS, just might be something that SCHOOLS could maybe get behind a little bit.

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