corporate america: we had a record 2018, so we're cutting 8% of the workforce

[hayden_horn 11362]

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-12-activision-blizzard-sees-record-year-plans-to-decrease-net-headcount-by-8-percent

Quote

During today's Q4 and full-year earnings call for Activision-Blizzard, it was announced that despite a "record year" of profit, the company would be reducing its headcount by a net total of 8% in 2019 - approximately 800 people based on employee figures as of last summer.

Quote

2018 Compensation of Top Activision Executives:

*Robert Kotick. CEO and Director - $28.7 Million in compensation for 2018
(Kotick was also the 29th highest paid executive in the world as of 2017)
*Brian G. Kelly. Chair of the Board - Worth $1.18 Billion (no salary info)
*Collister Johnson. President, Chief Operating Office -$11.2 Million in compensation for 2018
*Riccardo Zacconi. CEO, King. - $14.8 Million in compensation for 2018
*Eric Hirshberg. CEO, Activision Publishing - $6 Million in compensation for 2018
*Dennis M. Durkin. Chief Corporate Officer - $5.8 Million in compensation for 2018
*Chris Walther. Chief Legal Officer - $5.2 Million in compensation for 2018
*Spencer Neumann. CFO - $9.5 Million in compensation for 2018
 

now, activision is claiming that these are redundant back-office type roles, which is seemingly further meant to minimize the jobs being lost.

https://kotaku.com/activisions-ceo-made-28-6-million-last-year-300-times-1825715966

Quote

According to the same SEC filing, the median Activision employee made $93,660 last year. “Based on the foregoing, our estimate of the CEO-to-median employee pay ratio is 306:1,” reads the filing. “Due to the wide variety of job functions within our company, across numerous global jurisdictions, the compensation paid to our employees differs greatly between departments, experience levels, and locations. We believe that our employees are fairly compensated and appropriately incentivized.”

i understand that executives have tough jobs - i deal with many c-level executives in my career. they work very hard, but i'm not sure they work 300x as hard as their producers within the corporation. take a games company like atvi - i have no doubt that many of these people work just as many 60 -80 hour weeks as the executives. probably more, given the intense deadline drive of the business.

they also announced that they are going to be hiring a lot more developers. so, once they ramp up production of titles, they'll need to rehire support staffers like those they are laying off. this makes no sense to me. take the salary hit for a couple of consecutive quarters, get creative in how to retain these people and keep them busy, because hiring is fucking expensive, and so is training up new staff. 

Quote

During the earnings call today, CEO Bobby Kotick offered further context for the layoffs, saying that they were part of a larger plan to restructure the company and focus on core franchises while removing unnecessary spending in other areas. The layoffs, Kotick said, would be focused on back office, commercial operations, and consumer marketing areas as the company works to reduce admin expenses and underperforming intiatives, de-prioritize games and intiatives that don't meet expectations, and reduce non-development costs.

Meanwhile, Kotick also said the company would be hiring more developers in 2019, with a 20% increase in developer resources overall both to core teams and to incubation teams. As another part of the company's restructuring, Activision-Blizzard plans to invest in its core franchises and development, especially its larger, internally-owned franchises. That means more upfront releases, in-game content, mobile games (including a number of unannounced projects), geographic expansion of existing games, and investment in esports leagues.

there is no way to reassign some of these folks? i remind you, the company had a RECORD YEAR.

Quote

The dramatic restructuring at the company somewhat flies in the face of Activision-Blizzard's record year and solid Q4. For the quarter, the company saw net revenue of $2.38 billion - above its guidance of $2.24 billion. By segment, Activision brought in $1.41 billion in revenue, Blizzard was responsible for $686 million, and King saw $543 million.

For the full-year, total revenue was $7.5 billion, above the guidance of $7.35 billion. Also for the year, Activision-Blizzard saw a record net bookings of $7.26 billion, though this was below the full-year guidance of $7.48 billion. By segment, Activision's net revenue was $2.46 billion, Blizzard's was $2.29 billion, and King's was $2.09 billion.

but then again, the stock is at ~$43 down from a 52 week high of ~$84, so, i guess that actually succeeding past expectations isn't good enough for shareholder value.

to me, this is the biggest issue facing corporate america today. things make no sense. compensation at the worker level as compared to the executive level is extremely out of whack.

granted, this is just an anecdotal example, but i see this all the time when i read financial reports. layoffs are a part of working for a corporation, and there's very little that the workers can do about it. meanwhile, those in charge, LEADING the company, continue to see their compensation rise to generational wealth levels. it's upside-down. i don't think it's sustainable.

[crash_davis 23094]

all your points are valid especially with the grand canyon size disparity between workers' salaries vs the C-level shitheads.  however 8% isn't that deep of a cut.  it's more trimming the fat and re-aligning the business.  jack welch who pretty much set the blue print on return on shareholder value used to cut 10% almost annually.

if your corporation is like most corporations, there's a lot of fat (lazy, shitty, assholish employees) who prob need to be let go. caught up in that will be some good people who do not deserve to be let go.  sucks because it impacts real lives but do your shit, produce value, don't be an asshole and most people should be ok.

but to be fair, the c-level assholes should also take a 8% cut in pay and bonuses.  but that will never happen.

there's no loyalty with employers to employees or vice versa.  

[Dbeasy 15039]

There is virtually no way to fix the problem. It would take massive consumer campaigns to systematically boycott companies with the highest executive pay in order for Boards to do something about it. And that will never happen.

[crash_davis 23094]

boards won't do anything about it.  they are all C-level at other companies.  it's like asking the police to police themselves.

[6th Street 6389]

Did you miss the part where ATVI guided revs down by $1B (13%) this year? Latest Call of Duty release was a bust and they have come under huge fire from Fortnite

[High Plains Drifter 11024]

26 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

There is virtually no way to fix the problem. It would take massive consumer campaigns to systematically boycott companies with the highest executive pay in order for Boards to do something about it. And that will never happen.

My solution:

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

21 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Did you miss the part where ATVI guided revs down by $1B (13%) this year? Latest Call of Duty release was a bust and they have come under huge fire from Fortnite

And yet the workers pay for that failure rather than the C*Os who guided the ship into that iceberg.  Somebody getting paid 28.7 million a year should have had the foresight to expect Fortnite.  You and I could have presided over the creation of Call of Duty 47 for a fraction of that salary.  The issue is that hired hand CEOs are paid as if they are founders or visionaries when they are actually neither.  They are primarily number crunchers who, not shockingly, always fail to crunch their own numbers when they fail to get shit done.  Kotick's sole competency is buying other people's IP and pretending it will last forever as is.  Hardly a surprise that he can't take Activision in new directions.

[Grippe 309]

Cloakroom in 3... 2...

Does anyone know for sure if we're a plutocracy or a republic anymore?

[pearlandhorn 3269]

Activision is in a world of shit.  They recently terminated their CFO for some type of either insider trading or personal issue.  They also had one of their biggest franchise owners they were partners with buy out their share of the game they were working on (Bungie with Destiny).  There's still more stuff to come to light for Activision.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

10 minutes ago, Grippe said:

Cloakroom in 3... 2...

Does anyone know for sure if we're a plutocracy or a republic anymore?

We are, and always have been, a plutocracy.  The founding fathers were all elite when they did the founding.  While they may have had fathers who were shoemakers or candlemakers, no shoemakers or candlemakers were invited to the founding show.  The only way we differ from traditional plutocracies like Russia is that we allow new plutocrats to emerge.  Bezos had no power at all when he was running a small bookstore.  Now he may very well be the most powerful person in the world.

[52-80 19140]

200-300 CEO:Median worker is pretty much standard in the corporate world. 

What is funny is that executives get a raise, as a reward, when the company is doing well.  they get a raise as means of retention, when company is doing par.  they get a raise, to "hold together the ship", when the company is failing.

and then they get a raise, obviously, when the company floats out of the crapper.

win-win-win-win.

 

Pretty funny reading my companies methodology in calculating the CEO ratio.  They weasel their way into excluding a large part of the workforce to make the number look less unbalanced

[UTGrad98 2271]

They need to make diablo 4 ASAP. 

[Wally Fairway 5539]

Water is wet; and the CEO has to do something (really anything) to "justify" that multi-million compensation package. 

[Eastwood 4394]

They need to make diablo 4 ASAP. 

They had a "huge" announcement to make at a convention and everyone thought it would be that game. It was Diablo, alright. On mobile. When the crowd didn't like it, the verbatim response, on stage and on the mic, was "what? You guys don't own phones?"

With Activision running things, don't expect much out of Blizzard legacy IP.

[hayden_horn 11362]

 

1 hour ago, 6th Street said:

Did you miss the part where ATVI guided revs down by $1B (13%) this year? Latest Call of Duty release was a bust and they have come under huge fire from Fortnite

 

47 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

And yet the workers pay for that failure rather than the C*Os who guided the ship into that iceberg.  Somebody getting paid 28.7 million a year should have had the foresight to expect Fortnite.  You and I could have presided over the creation of Call of Duty 47 for a fraction of that salary.  The issue is that hired hand CEOs are paid as if they are founders or visionaries when they are actually neither.  They are primarily number crunchers who, not shockingly, always fail to crunch their own numbers when they fail to get shit done.  Kotick's sole competency is buying other people's IP and pretending it will last forever as is.  Hardly a surprise that he can't take Activision in new directions.

fondren more or less outlined my response to that. the cfo was fired from the company, but that's because he was hired over at netflix, and activision got bent about it. c-suite executives do not seem to have to take the same responsibility for these types of failures. but they outline staffing cuts to reorganize things because their strategic vision and plan was lacking.

and yet, despite all this, it was a record year for atvi profits.

it's fuck you, pay me. that's all it is.

[Bevo 13558]

I should be the CEO of a large corporation. They are easy jobs to get and there are so many of them available.

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

As the CEO of Globex Corp I think you should all shut the fuck up and mind your own business. 

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

Maybe one day UNICEF will get into the gaming business, but until then.

[Chewbacca 7765]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

boards won't do anything about it.  they are all C-level at other companies.  it's like asking the police to police themselves.

Yep.  This is the crux of the issue.  Compensation committees are made up of other CEOs.  And I'm sure if you ask them, they think they are actually worth the money they make.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20389]

The richest 1% of the nation have a net worth that exceeds that of the bottom 90%, a trend that continues to grow in favor of the 1%.    History offers no examples of a similar situation that, over time, did not result in revolution. 

[hornbri 1391]

1 hour ago, pearlandhorn said:

Activision is in a world of shit.  They recently terminated their CFO for some type of either insider trading or personal issue.  They also had one of their biggest franchise owners they were partners with buy out their share of the game they were working on (Bungie with Destiny).  There's still more stuff to come to light for Activision.

Yeah - I am not sure you can make broad statements about corporate America using this example. (Unless you just want this thread to be about broad generalizations). 

Activation likely hired many of these people anticipating future growth, with that grown not materializing or being seen in the short term they are cutting back. It had nothing to do with the current quarters profits as seen by the stock price. It is really not that hard to understand. 

[52-80 19140]

15 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Yep.  This is the crux of the issue.  Compensation committees are made up of other CEOs.  And I'm sure if you ask them, they think they are actually worth the money they make.

i like how virtually every public company's compensation committee targets their CEO to be at 75th percentile of peers.  so its a perpetual 1-upping every single year ,all across the board.  pretty sure not every employee is at 75th percentile of their peer

[6th Street 6389]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

And yet the workers pay for that failure rather than the C*Os who guided the ship into that iceberg.  Somebody getting paid 28.7 million a year should have had the foresight to expect Fortnite.  You and I could have presided over the creation of Call of Duty 47 for a fraction of that salary.  The issue is that hired hand CEOs are paid as if they are founders or visionaries when they are actually neither.  They are primarily number crunchers who, not shockingly, always fail to crunch their own numbers when they fail to get shit done.  Kotick's sole competency is buying other people's IP and pretending it will last forever as is.  Hardly a surprise that he can't take Activision in new directions.

You can argue about executive pay, but that's a different discussion. Things are a mess there so not surprising they are restructuring give the deteriorating  demand environment and subsequently lower rev base.

[Js1 85258]

27 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

As the CEO of Globex Corp I think you should all shut the fuck up and mind your own business. 

Okay, but will you approve my request for some business hammocks? 

[staboner 4969]

15 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

The richest 1% of the nation have a net worth that exceeds that of the bottom 90%, a trend that continues to grow in favor of the 1%.    History offers no examples of a similar situation that, over time, did not result in revolution. 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

The richest 1% of the nation have a net worth that exceeds that of the bottom 90%, a trend that continues to grow in favor of the 1%.    History offers no examples of a similar situation that, over time, did not result in revolution. 

Our poorest of the poor have iphones and 3 hots & a cot.

They ain't revolting any time soon.

 

Love this thread.  Everyone conveniently ignores their own 401K and what drives its growth.

 

Those other guys...they're the fucking devil.

[High Plains Drifter 11024]

6 minutes ago, slorch said:

Our poorest of the poor have iphones and 3 hots & a cot.

They ain't revolting any time soon.

 

Love this thread.  Everyone conveniently ignores their own 401K and what drives its growth.

 

Those other guys...they're the fucking devil.

This is what is going to kickstart the revolution-- when their 401Ks vanish in the next depression, and the CEO and their ilk walk away richer than ever.

[Guest]

You're saying the stock market is going to disappear?

Go on...

[Wally Fairway 5539]

1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

This is what is going to kickstart the revolution-- when their 401Ks vanish in the next depression, and the CEO and their ilk walk away richer than ever.

Ask the Venezueleans - I think it has more to do with lack of food, water, electricity,,,well that and the police state killing people who speak up too much.

[High Plains Drifter 11024]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

You're saying the stock market is going to disappear?

Go on...

No, I'm saying their wealth will disappear.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

No, I'm saying their wealth will disappear.

mkay...

[Foosters 17819]

19 minutes ago, slorch said:

Our poorest of the poor have iphones and 3 hots & a cot.

They ain't revolting any time soon.

 

Love this thread.  Everyone conveniently ignores their own 401K and what drives its growth.

 

Those other guys...they're the fucking devil.

You think the path we're on is sustainable vis-a-vis inequality?

Edit: Actually, nevermind. I'm not really interested in rehashing the argument that has been discussed on these boards for years. Agree to disagree.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Foosters

[Francisco 2.0 32385]

https://kotaku.com/the-fallout-of-activision-blizzard-s-massive-layoffs-1832597892

 

Quote

Yesterday, at the exact moment Activision Blizzard chief executive officer Bobby Kotick hopped on a quarterly earnings call to inform shareholders that his company had just gone through a “record year,” employees across the publisher of Call of Duty, World of Warcraft and more were being brought into conference rooms and informed that they were losing their jobs.

“It’s a bloodbath here,” one Blizzard employee told me last night. “A lot more cuts than we were expecting.”

Quote

As Kotick and other executives were telling investors that the next Call of Dutywas shaping up to be the best one yet, employees across Activision Blizzard’s various divisions nervously sat at their desks, waiting to see who would be next to get the severance envelope. In Blizzard’s publishing department, management had booked a series of meetings from 1pm to 3pm Pacific. On the calendar, they were all blank. Everyone knew what that meant.

Spoiler

“The look on people’s faces as they’re pulling in through the [campus] gates is just awful,” said another Blizzard employee. “This is the fucking worst.”

Later on the call, Kotick delivered the grim news: Activision Blizzard, which employed around 9,600 employees last year, would reduce its workforce by 8%. That equated to around 800 people. Some were junior employees, having started at the company just recently; others had been with Activision Blizzard for 15 years or longer. Some were informed yesterday; others, particularly in Europe and other non-U.S. divisions, didn’t find out their fates until this morning.

It was carnage. People were laid off at Activision’s main office in Santa Monica, California, where an entire team of Destiny publishing staff had been coming to work with nothing to do. (Some of them were laid off; some were moved to Call of Duty or other teams. Some in other departments were also laid off.) People lost their jobs at King, the developer of Candy Crush, and at Activision’s various development studios including Vicarious Visions (Albany, NY) and High Moon Studios (San Diego, CA), both of which had handled support on Destiny 2. Activision Blizzard staff in Europe, Latin America, and other regions across the world also lost their jobs. Some who were laid off wrote messages on social media to say goodbye, while developers all across the video game industry tried to help by posting job listings on Twitter and Facebook. Although the bulk of laid-off employees were support staff, some were in departments like art and design as well.

Over the past week I’ve talked to around 20 people who were laid off or close to those being laid off, as well as others with knowledge as to what’s happening at Activision Blizzard. If there’s a consensus, it’s rage. Rage at Kotick’s comments, at the way Activision executives seemingly view their employees as numbers on a spreadsheet, at the callousness in which this layoff was handled. There’s rage at who was chosen to be laid off—two people told me that it felt like a random, haphazard practice—and rage that some important employees were let go. Some who had been laid off told me they had felt safe, expecting their studios or departments to not be affected. Even those who felt layoffs were necessary or justifiable said they were shocked by the scale, scope, and coldness from executives.

At Blizzard, for example, rumors of big layoffs had been circulating as early as November. Back then, as I began to learn about the sweeping changes that had come to the legendary game studio in 2018, I heard from a former high-level employee that layoffs were coming in February. I heard the same from a source plugged into the investor community. Another Blizzard employee told me today that the layoffs had been an “open secret” for months.

Blizzard, founded in 1991, has developed critically and commercially successful games from Warcraft and StarCraft to Diablo and Overwatch. It has kept its game quality high even after Activision merged with the studio in 2008. It just hasn’t produced many new games of late, increasing tensions with management in Santa Monica. Since the beginning of 2018, as Kotaku has reported previously, the mandate at Blizzard had been to cut costs and produce more games.

To those who worked outside of Blizzard’s development teams, in departments like publishing, esports, QA, and IT, it felt last year like the axe was about to fall. After all, if Blizzard was looking to develop more games without spending more money, they’d need to lose headcount in non-game-development departments. But management said nothing. With no union or other method for collectively communicating with executives, employees were left with nothing but whispers. As November turned into December and the new year came, all they could do was wait.

Last week, as rumors began heating up and culminated in a Bloomberg story on Friday night reporting that hundreds of layoffs were coming, one Blizzard employee reached out to me to ask if I knew whether or not they’d get severance. The person said they weren’t expecting to be affected, but wanted to know if I’d heard anything about how impacted employees would be treated. Just in case. On Tuesday night, I found out they’d been laid off. (Full-time employees who were laid off across Activision Blizzard did get severance, although contractors did not.)

I heard other stories, too. Some people supposedly learned their fate early, signing non-disclosure agreements last week in exchange for severance packages. Others took buyouts thanks to the Career Crossroads program that allowed QA, customer service, and IT employees to voluntarily leave, as we reported in December. Some were given hints from their managers—warnings to polish their résumés before Tuesday. One Blizzard employee told me they’d see the job networking website Linkedin open on computer screens as they walked around the office over the past week.

Some outside of Blizzard, at Activision’s various development studios, thought they were safe but on Tuesday and Wednesday reached out to let me know that they or their colleagues had been unexpectedly laid off.

Last night, the picture at Blizzard became clearer. Support teams had been gutted. The layoffs were largest in non-development departments like IT and QA, according to those who were there. The esports department was hit hard, as many within Blizzard had expected—after all, it had been led by Amy Morhaime, wife of Mike, the long-time Blizzard CEO who left the company last fall. She departed around the same time. The two Morhaimes were seen as big advocates for esports within Blizzard, even when it wasn’t quite as lucrative as Activision’s executives might have hoped, and with them gone, the department was in danger.

Blizzard’s publishing department, which is comprised of PR, marketing, community, and other game support divisions, was also hit hard. Around late 2015 or early 2016, Blizzard had split North American and global publishing into two departments, according to long-time employees. It was seen as a bad move by those who worked there, one that caused resentment, redundancy, and unnecessary bureaucracy. As part of this week’s layoffs, Blizzard reconsolidated those divisions, laying off dozens in the process. Executives like chief operating officer Armin Zerza and marketing boss Todd Harvey, both of whom are heavily connected to Activision, are running the show.

So what does this all mean for the future of Blizzard? Since the beginning of 2018, Activision has been exerting more influence on Blizzard, pushing the company to release more games and find more ways to make money. General consensus, even among rank-and-file employees, is that Blizzard’s lack of new game output over the past few years hasn’t been healthy or sustainable. But Activision’s influence has raised questions among Blizzard staff about whether the studio can retain its culture. Said one former Blizzard employee to me last December: “There’s a real struggle now between developers and the business people… Strategic decisions are being driven by the finance group.”

For decades, Activision’s philosophy has revolved around annualized releases, most notably with the gargantuan Call of Duty series, which hasn’t skipped a year since 2004. That sort of schedule is diametrically opposed to Blizzard’s “release it when it’s ready” philosophy, which has led to massively successful games like Overwatch and Hearthstone but has also led to periods like the present, in which Blizzard has gone three years without releasing a major game. The tension between annualized releases and “games as a service” that don’t have to have new, boxed releases and sequels is one of the main reasons that the Activision and Bungie relationship never worked out. Last month, the two companies split, with Bungie buying the full rights to sell and publish Destiny on its own.

This year will likely be a slow one for Blizzard, as the company implements its new strategy across franchises like Diablo, Warcraft, and Overwatch (all of which have new games in development, many for smartphones). Then, we’ll likely see more new Blizzard games come out more regularly than ever before. And we’ll have to wait and see if they live up to the quality bar Blizzard has set for itself over the past three decades.

At the Yard House restaurant in the Irvine Spectrum mall in California last night, a group of current and now-former Blizzard employees met up to drink and commiserate. The mood was somber, according to one person who was there. There was plenty of sadness and blame to go around. There was anxiety expressed by those who now need to hunt for new jobs, and those who might be forced to uproot their families for new cities or countries. And among those who remain at the company, there’s survivor’s guilt. The fallout of this layoff will linger for a long time. “Work again tomorrow,” said one Blizzard employee who remains at the company. “I have a feeling no one will be doing much work the rest of the week.”

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Foosters said:

You think the path we're on is sustainable vis-a-vis inequality?

Edit: Actually, nevermind. I'm not really interested in rehashing the argument that has been discussed on these boards for years. Agree to disagree.

We are not equal when it comes to responsibility/ income/ wealth/ general results.

To suggest equality, other than in the eyes of the law, is the goal is insane.  It will never remotely come close to happening, save for a massive meteor strike/ natural disaster that destroys all wealth.  Even then, there are still going to be lazy fucks, achievers, and haves/ have-nots.

Edited February 13, 2019 by slorch

[52-80 19140]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

We are not equal when it comes to responsibility/ income/ wealth/ general results.

To suggest equality, other than in the eyes of the law, is the goal is insane.  It will never remotely come close to happening, save for a massive meteor strike/ natural disaster that destroys all wealth.  Even then, there are still going to be lazy fucks, achievers, and haves/ have-nots.

he didnt say equal.  he said sustainable.  which doesnt require equality.  it requires a healthy balance.  and what we're trending on is definitely not healthy

[Guest]

He specifically says sustainability vis-a-vis inequality.  

Let's change the quote, shall we?

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by slorch

[hornbri 1391]

Quote

People were laid off at Activision’s main office in Santa Monica, California, where an entire team of Destiny publishing staff had been coming to work with nothing to do. 

Well it sounds as if at least some of the layoffs were justified then. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

The richest 1% of the nation have a net worth that exceeds that of the bottom 90%, a trend that continues to grow in favor of the 1%.    History offers no examples of a similar situation that, over time, did not result in revolution. 

The poorest 10% have never had such a high standard of living though.

[52-80 19140]

36 minutes ago, slorch said:

He specifically says sustainability vis-a-vis inequality.  

Let's change the quote, shall we?

 

The point is to be less-inequal, not to be equal. 

[Guest]

Just now, 52-80 said:

The point is to be less-inequal, not to be equal. 

Inequal outcomes bug the fuck out of some folks, I guess.

The point is that it's a pipe dream... in the realm of CR, so I'm out.

[futureman 22439]

4 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

I understand that executives have tough jobs ... they work very hard, but i'm not sure they work 300x as hard as their producers within the corporation.

this is just adorable. 

[52-80 19140]

19 minutes ago, slorch said:

Inequal outcomes bug the fuck out of some folks, I guess.

The point is that it's a pipe dream... in the realm of CR, so I'm out.

You ever been to parts of the world with extreme inequality?  It's some uncomfortable, fucked up shit

[futureman 22439]

30 minutes ago, slorch said:

Inequal outcomes bug the fuck out of some folks, I guess.

The point is that it's a pipe dream... in the realm of CR, so I'm out.

except it’s not a pipe dream.  look at corporate pay structures from 40 or 50 years ago.  things were a bit more reasonable. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

5 minutes ago, futureman said:

except it’s not a pipe dream.  look at corporate pay structures from 40 or 50 years ago.  things were a bit more reasonable. 

The remedies for inequality seems to make both the poor and the rich poorer.  Margaret Thatcher explained this.  

Edited February 14, 2019 by Johnny Sack

[Guest]

1 hour ago, futureman said:

except it’s not a pipe dream.  look at corporate pay structures from 40 or 50 years ago.  things were a bit more reasonable. 

The CEO of my employer makes a shit-ton more than I do.  It's a fact of life.

I make market wages for what I do.

Why the fuck should I be all doom and gloom for the completely misguided idea that my pay has anything to do with his/ hers?

 

When CEO pay fails to yield the desired goal, it will be adjusted or they will be relieved of their duties.

 

Why is that so fucking hard to understand?  Unemployment is at basically a record low for modern times, and the stock market is flush.  Are the CEOs just supposed to work for free?

Edited February 14, 2019 by slorch

[futureman 22439]

4 minutes ago, slorch said:

The CEO of my employer makes a shit-ton more than I do.  It's a fact of life.

I make market wages for what I do.

Why the fuck should I be all doom and gloom for the completely misguided idea that my pay has anything to do with his/ hers?

 

When CEO pay fails to yield the desired goal, it will be adjusted or they will be relieved of their duties.

 

Why is that so fucking hard to understand?  Unemployment is at basically a record low for modern times, and the stock market is flush.  Are the CEOs just supposed to work for free?

look at corporate pay structures from 40 or 50 years ago.  things were a bit more reasonable. 

[FartingMonk 3606]

I think a lot of it has to do with the employees too.  We have a misguided belief that loyalty to a corporation is a thing.  I work with a lot of older guys who complain that their pension has been frozen.  Their benefits have been taken but they are still there.  I have made it clear to my bosses that I'm a mercenary and I will go to whoever pays me the most.  I recently asked and got a huge raise.  The bosses think it was fair, but the backlash I received was actually from my coworkers who feel like I'm fleecing the company because I haven't "done" my time and have no right to ask for a pay raise.  That mindset is pretty prevalent out there and the employers know this and that's what drives the employee pay low.  The CEOs do a helluva lot more than I do.  I also know that with market fluctuations I can get chopped anytime so I demand a higher salary.  The company isn't showing loyalty to me why am I supposed to show any back.  This isn't a charity.  

[RPM 26315]

35 minutes ago, slorch said:

Are the CEOs just supposed to work for free?

Hyperbole much?

[Kyle 207]

I think I may have found the single thread where I actually generally agree with literally every post to some degree. Cheers.

[52-80 19140]

5 hours ago, RPM said:

Hyperbole much?

That's just his market-value opinion

Edited February 14, 2019 by 52-80