The Next Batman

[oSuJeff97 3435]

2 hours ago, Red Five said:

Yeah have y'all watched Batman Returns recently? It's closer to the Schumaker ones that came later than to the first Batman. 

I have and I strongly disagree.

There's no fucking nipples on the bat suit or gratuitous shots of Batman's ass; there also aren't cheeseball villains prancing around and making stupid jokey jokes all the way through the movie.

Everybody calls those first two films "campy" just because they aren't (more or less) grounded in reality like the Nolan films. Here's the thing - they weren't *trying* to be realistic. Burton was trying to make a live action version of a comic book, and he achieved that brilliantly.  Some of the VFX don't hold up super well because they were late 80s/early 90s vintage, but otherwise the visual fabric, themes, cinematography, fantastic score and great cast hold up very well in both films.

The Schumaker films are candy-coated, campy pieces of shit and shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the Burton films. Go re-watch Batman & Robin and then watch Batman Returns right after and tell me if the two are even in the same fucking zip code. They are completely different in almost every way except for the fact that they are both "Batman" films.

[Tom 2959]

2 hours ago, TrashMaster G said:

So, is Justice League no longer a thing?  Is this another reboot?  Is the DCU really as completely disorganized as it seems?

 

They've already had a new Joker outside of DCU.  Frankly, is there any need to really continue on with that Justice League universe?  HBO's Peacemaker is the first thing from that universe that's any good.  As far as I care, it can exist independently. 

Is Affleck not done playing Batman?  Cavill needs to hang up his cape and go play James Bond and DC should just start over and try to do better.  The ones people like to pretend weren't that bad (Wonder Woman, Justice League Director's Cut, Suicide Squad 2) were all still really, really bad movies.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Tom

[DanRydell 799]

Just got out of it. As best I can tell, the concept was “what if Se7en was a Batman movie but also 45 minutes too long?” It was good overall but it was also a slog at times.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

14 hours ago, Tom said:

 

They've already had a new Joker outside of DCU.  Frankly, is there any need to really continue on with that Justice League universe?  HBO's Peacemaker is the first thing from that universe that's any good.  As far as I care, it can exist independently. 

Is Affleck not done playing Batman?  Cavill needs to hang up his cape and go play James Bond and DC should just start over and try to do better.  The ones people like to pretend weren't that bad (Wonder Woman, Justice League Director's Cut, Suicide Squad 2) were all still really, really bad movies.

Yeah as a completely casual fan, I don't have any idea what (if any?) of the DC films are supposed to be in the "same universe." It seems they just make one-off Batman films that don't have any connection and I know there were those Justice League films and then also the two Suicide Squad movies and the other Harely Quinn one.

I have no idea which are connected and which aren't lol.

[Helobious 9454]

Just got out. It was long but I liked it a lot. Colin Farrell & Jeffrey Wright did great jobs imo. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

On 3/2/2022 at 8:48 PM, DanRydell said:

Just got out of it. As best I can tell, the concept was “what if Se7en was a Batman movie but also 45 minutes too long?” It was good overall but it was also a slog at times.

Pretty much this.  Enjoyed the first two hours. Somewhere in the third hour was really ready for it to end.  

[kingkoopa6 8357]

Dope flick.  Fights scenes remind me of old boy Jon wick equilibrium 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

I forgot to note that the batmobile chase scene in iMax was very very awesome.

 

[TexEx15 17539]

Fantastic movie. Robert Pattinson was better as Batman than Wayne. If there is a sequel I hope he cuts his hair. That shit was terrible but I get why they did it for this film.

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:17 PM, Michael Knight said:

I like Michael Keaton but he was a terrible batman, he never moved his head. Looking back now those movies are awful and aged terribly 

Your issue is with the costume designer. That mask and cowl was like a half inch thick and did not move. 

[CooterBrown 18014]

This was great. The Se7en with Batman description is spot on. This is not a superhero movie at all. There’s no giant set piece. There’s actually minimal action. It’s a slow burn detective case that ratchets up the tension as it moves along. Batman isn’t perfect, he makes mistakes. He may be a bit mentally ill. He’s kind of an incel. Sure it could been cut down 30 minutes but I don’t know what 30 I would’ve cut.

Hopefully, it makes a fuck load of money so Warner Bros invests in this dark and gritty universe.

[Frieda’s Boss 181]

Saw it last night. Somebody said it already but I liked Pattinson as Batman but didn’t like his Bruce Wayne. My guess is this was by design and (especially given his interactions with Alfred) that changes for the next installments as he grows. 
 

Action sequences were good. Is the Batman suit always been able to just walk through gunfire?  I always thought Batman’s thing was coming out of the shadows, being elusive so no one gets a direct shot on him. This was Terminator Batman in that he was just coming straight ahead most times. 
 

Acting was good all around. Dano, Farrell, Wright, etc. 
 

Definitely can cut things out. Just clean up the time spent “lingering” on shots and you probably save 20 minutes. It was (and felt) very long.  Very much a Se7en feel. 
 

 

[Sam Lin 3559]

Just saw it. Was disappointed after seeing many strong reviews.

The last ~20min could have been cut after the big scene. It was just teasing for sequels, which no one needed for Batman. We already know they will milk this franchise for sequels forever.

I found the car chase incredibly meh, easy to tell from the chassis movements how slow the cars were going when filmed. It was just boring, and the engine sound was completely mismatched to how slow the Batmobile was.

Catwoman was well acted, very similar feel to Halle Berry. Pattinson felt like Emo Batman. Fine, we'll have plenty of multiverse Batmen with different styles. The others were solid.

Mentioned above, Batman armor tanking everything got ridiculous. Centerfire hunting rifle point blank? Ok. Double barrel shotgun point blank? Ok. Face and head never getting hit? Ok.

Fight scene somewhat channeled Star Wars Vader lightsaber wrecking his way down the hall.

Overall, I give it 2 shark jumps. Have no desire to watch it again.

[Michael Knight 12981]

I thought it was good, not as good as Batman begins or dark knight but better than the other batmens. Probably 5th best DC movie. Paul Dano, Jeffrey Wright and Colin Farrell did well Zoe was hot.

 

Too much Batman not enough Bruce Wayne. The action was diminished because it felt no one got hurt at all. There were a few ridiculous hour the fuck is he alive after that.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Michael Knight

[henrygandorf 29191]

they just intro’d and devoted time to too many characters, that’s why it was long. lots of zoe and turturro. 

[TheStoicPaisano 9922]

Dialect director and scriptwriters should be fired into Bolivian. 
 

Diggory was OK if a bit emo. Kravitz is beautiful but had nothing to work with dialogue-wise. Serkis rocked as always.

Pretty much every villain sucked with the exception of 

Spoiler

Keoghan.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by TheStoicPaisano

[South Austin 52515]

Liked it a lot.

Pattinson Batman is better than Bale Batman, mostly because he didn’t alter his voice in some cheesy baritone speech-impediment way like Bale. But his Bruce Wayne was too millennial emo.

I’d like to cuddle with Zöe Kravitz.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9327]

The "Batman meets Se7en" comparison is perfect. You could feel the David Fincher fingerprints all over it. It felt like Reeves was trying to shoot a few hundred iconic storyboards he'd envisioned in his head/copped from graphic novels and then find a way to weave a story to fit those shots. Some parts worked, others didn't, and twenty minutes could have easily been cut to make a tighter narrative. But I suppose it's inevitable when you have that type of cast to want to give everyone a chance to chew some scenery.

The Colin Farrell as Oz/Penguin bugged me, however. It was obvious that Reeves went to the makeup department and said "make him look like Robert De Niro as Al Capone in The Untouchables." And Farrell took that direction to heart as well with every other facial tic and mannerism seeming like a De Niro spoof.

 

[mchookem 16336]

saw it today.

Se7en is a great comparison...when we came out the first thing I said was 'damn that last hour was really dark'...i realized while watching i was feeling completely creeped out and uncomfortable with the whole 'incels organizing a mass shooting online' plot. 

loved the muscle car batmobile and the fight lit only by gunfire was cool.

the batmobile, the batcycle, the janky bat signal, his faded suit, his accountant issues...felt almost like a working class Batman, which was def different. 

overall i liked it. agree they could have shaved at least 20 mins.

 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9327]

No CR here, but the Riddler's online followers are a thinly veiled version of Q nutjobs.

[Brandywine 1316]

On 3/5/2022 at 5:26 PM, South Austin said:

I’d like to cuddle with Zöe Kravitz.

She is beautiful, gorgeous. Good actress too. Loved her in High Fidelity and Kimi. 

[GTX Horn 1708]

I saw it yesterday and thought it was solid. Everything a Batman movie should be. It did start to drag about 2/3 of the way through but overall it was an enjoyable flick. Several minor nitpicks: I didn’t care for Pattinson as Bruce Wayne nor did I like the portrayal of his relationship with Alfred. Im also not a fan of them teasing the Joker already. I hope the next movie deals with someone different like Hush or Hugo Strange. Maybe the next one takes influence from Silence of the Lambs where Batman gets insight from Riddler or Joker to take down the next villains? Idk, totally just spitballing there. I thought they were setting up that kid from the street gang that was about to be forced to mugging the guy from the train as a Robin but I guess not. I’d like to see them incorporate Nightwing or Robin in future movies because that’s a character that’s never been given justice in live-action format. 

[henrygandorf 29191]

23 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

I saw it yesterday and thought it was solid. Everything a Batman movie should be. It did start to drag about 2/3 of the way through but overall it was an enjoyable flick. Several minor nitpicks: I didn’t care for Pattinson as Bruce Wayne nor did I like the portrayal of his relationship with Alfred. Im also not a fan of them teasing the Joker already. I hope the next movie deals with someone different like Hush or Hugo Strange. Maybe the next one takes influence from Silence of the Lambs where Batman gets insight from Riddler or Joker to take down the next villains? Idk, totally just spitballing there. I thought they were setting up that kid from the street gang that was about to be forced to mugging the guy from the train as a Robin but I guess not. I’d like to see them incorporate Nightwing or Robin in future movies because that’s a character that’s never been given justice in live-action format. 

um, i beg your pardon.

[Sam Lin 3559]

Also:

[GottaB 594]

um, i beg your pardon.

Holy Rusted Metal Batman

[GottaB 594]

Just saw it.

My early thoughts are like a lot of you here. Seven, muscle car, fight lit by gunfire, yada yada.

There were some cool shots but the work to set up the shots may not have been worth it.

When I first heard it was Pattenson, I know a lot of people mocked the choice that it would be brooding vampire from the Twilight movies and I dismissed it. I thought Pattenson had done some great work since then and has grown as an actor.

I was wrong. Lots of slow shots with him looking moody and saying little.

It was the theme though. Maybe the sequel will show him evolving into . . . more.

[CooterBrown 18014]

11 hours ago, GTX Horn said:

 Im also not a fan of them teasing the Joker already. I hope the next movie deals with someone different like Hush or Hugo Strange. Maybe the next one takes influence from Silence of the Lambs where Batman gets insight from Riddler or Joker to take down the next villains? Idk, totally just spitballing there. 

The director said there was a cut scene where Batman does interview Joker in Arkham.  I felt like, in the trailer, that was going to be who was revealed Batman was talking to since the dialog was an obvious voiceover from another scene. Need to go back and see if that trailer scene and the movie scene match up or if it was truly from the cut scene.

I think you're right though. Joker and Riddler will be orchestrating something from the inside or they will be used Hannibal Lecter style and escape at the end of the sequel setting up the third movie.

 

 

[Eskimohorn 5635]

Just saw it.

My early thoughts are like a lot of you here. Seven, muscle car, fight lit by gunfire, yada yada.

There were some cool shots but the work to set up the shots may not have been worth it.

When I first heard it was Pattenson, I know a lot of people mocked the choice that it would be brooding vampire from the Twilight movies and I dismissed it. I thought Pattenson had done some great work since then and has grown as an actor.

I was wrong. Lots of slow shots with him looking moody and saying little.

It was the theme though. Maybe the sequel will show him evolving into . . . more.

Pattenson is not the director or writer. He does not control moody shots. Dude can act.

In latest Blade Runner, Gosling had about 5 minutes of screen time just brooding. Its atmosphere and a director’s prerogative. Same as Drive. We actually could use more silence in some movies, provided the director knows what they’re doing to pace the movie properly.

[GottaB 594]

Yeah, he can act. I wish they would have used him differently.

[Helobious 9454]

Just re-watched the 1989 Batman. Hate to say @Michael Knight is ever right about anything but yeah it doesn’t age that great. I enjoyed it way more as a kid. 

[Tom 2959]

4 hours ago, Helobious said:

Just re-watched the 1989 Batman. Hate to say @Michael Knight is ever right about anything but yeah it doesn’t age that great. I enjoyed it way more as a kid. 

 

I rewatched it three days ago when I thought I was going to see this new one over the weekend.  1989 Batman looks pretty bad now.  The set and cinematography at times looks like they're filming on location at a high school play. I haven't watched Batman Forever or Batman and Robin in 20+ years either but it's hard to imagine the 1989 Batman being closer in quality to the Nolan films than those.

[4th&Five 41558]

I was bored for a good part of this. Longer than it needed to be and Pattinson as Wayne was bad, imo. 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9327]

The most forced, contrived scene by Reeves was Pattinson as Wayne with his emo bangs dragging across his face in the most in your fucking face imagery of "hey, his hair across his brow represents the bat cape."

It's the kind of scene that if done with a brief pan shot would work, but Reeves hung on it again and again and again. Just stunningly bad for a director of his ability.

[Helobious 9454]

1 hour ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

The most forced, contrived scene by Reeves was Pattinson as Wayne with his emo bangs dragging across his face in the most in your fucking face imagery of "hey, his hair across his brow represents the bat cape."

It's the kind of scene that if done with a brief pan shot would work, but Reeves hung on it again and again and again. Just stunningly bad for a director of his ability.

Wasn’t that forced, I didn’t notice that at all. First time I’ve heard someone make that connection.

[sidis 9828]

saw it late last night...generally enjoyed it.  good cinematography, cool action, nice batman fights, excellent sound editing, i enjoyed the car chase scene.

i am 100% in line with viewing pattinson as a solid batman but the bruce wayne stuff was awful.  way too emo and the hair was irritating.  it is odd that given how universal that reaction has been...that reeves didn't pick up on it as well.

turturro as the ultimate bad guy was a miss for me as well.  just too much comedic association with john...it didn't work at all.  wilkinson (amazingly) and roberts (as marrone) were better.  dano was perfect, farrell did a good de niro impression, zoe was fine.

lot of similarities between the riddler and todd phillips' joker and their ultimate followers...and agreed with someone up there that it was not-so-subtle who that was all referring to.

Spoiler

the whole sea wall blowing and then setting up the qanon followers up as snipers in madison square garden was not enjoyable or believable imo.  it felt like they really did not know what to do there.  a million cops and no one notices any of these guys walking around the scoreboard with rifles and riddler masks on?  all of manhattan/gotham was flooded but the power was still on?  44 below had been around since before falcone made the deal but batman had never heard of it?  batsuit deflecting with virtually no consequences shotgun, 556 or 762 rounds at point blank?  lots of stuff like that.  but the up to arresting the riddler was generally enjoyable imo.

 

[Sam Lin 3559]

Spoiler

While on topic of unrealistically stupid, how about finding a USB drive and blindly plugging it into a department computer? No making a duplicate first. No using a sandboxed PC with zero connections or data. It's dumber than dumb.

Frankly, Gotham cops are so inept that the city doesn't really need a mastermind villain. Riddler's talents are completely wasted in that city.

[henrygandorf 29191]

10 hours ago, sidis said:

saw it late last night...generally enjoyed it.  good cinematography, cool action, nice batman fights, excellent sound editing, i enjoyed the car chase scene.

i am 100% in line with viewing pattinson as a solid batman but the bruce wayne stuff was awful.  way too emo and the hair was irritating.  it is odd that given how universal that reaction has been...that reeves didn't pick up on it as well.

turturro as the ultimate bad guy was a miss for me as well.  just too much comedic association with john...it didn't work at all.  wilkinson (amazingly) and roberts (as marrone) were better.  dano was perfect, farrell did a good de niro impression, zoe was fine.

lot of similarities between the riddler and todd phillips' joker and their ultimate followers...and agreed with someone up there that it was not-so-subtle who that was all referring to.

  Hide contents

the whole sea wall blowing and then setting up the qanon followers up as snipers in madison square garden was not enjoyable or believable imo.  it felt like they really did not know what to do there.  a million cops and no one notices any of these guys walking around the scoreboard with rifles and riddler masks on?  all of manhattan/gotham was flooded but the power was still on?  44 below had been around since before falcone made the deal but batman had never heard of it?  batsuit deflecting with virtually no consequences shotgun, 556 or 762 rounds at point blank?  lots of stuff like that.  but the up to arresting the riddler was generally enjoyable imo.

 

how about the mayor elect getting plugged in the chest (?) or neck with a sniper rifle and walking away with a flesh wound?

 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

On 3/2/2022 at 2:12 PM, longhornmatt said:

Batman Returns was campy and lame.  There is no real tension at all except for like two scenes with Pfeiffer and Walken.  They also let Tim Burton go overboard with all the settings and clownish characters that are more Tim Burton land than Batman.

 

 

Danny Devito as the Penguin was the best batman villain yet.

 

[Sam Lin 3559]

43 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

how about the mayor elect getting plugged in the chest (?) or neck with a sniper rifle and walking away with a flesh wound?

That itself is not entirely implausible if the rifle was using normal ball ammo instead of an expanding hunting round, which is believable for a random internet keyboard warrior. Plenty of hunting stories of clean entry/exit and animal continuing off normally.

(and I hate that I'm actually defending realism in this incredibly unrealistic movie)

[CurlyDumps 4475]

I thought the mayor got hit in the upper arm/shoulder. She was wearing a sling at that next press conference.

Wasn't blown away the same way I was after Batman Begins, but overall I really liked it for many of the stated reasons. Loved the neo-noir tone and look, the influences Reeves drew upon (classic noir, 70's noir like Chinatown, Blade Runner, etc).  I liked the grounded detective story approach, despite the plot getting pretty convoluted at times. Some of the overly explainy scenes got kind of comical. I wonder how much of that was Reeves needing to cram in setup for various spinoffs and TV shows and shit.

Reeves is very much into mythology, psychology, human nature, etc, so I get what he was going for with his take on Bruce in year two. Engulfed by his shadow and not even attempting to live a double life. He sleeps in, wears baggy clothes, blows off business meetings, etc.  I imagine we saw the first third of Reeves' planned character arc. Maybe one of the reasons it's not landing is that Bruce is around 30(?) and going through going through what comes off as a teen angst/ identity crisis phase.

I have been thinking about the movie a lot and I'm looking forward to a rewatch which is a good sign.

[Michael Knight 12981]

Overall I felt the movie was pretty good, and needed tweaks to make it great. If they had ditched the falcone storyline and cut the extraneous ending just focusing on the riddler/mystery and tightened up some questionable decisions, like spending a bit too much time watching batman and catwoman ride motorcycles. Honestly could probably cut the chase scene. I feel like Reeves wanted to make a smaller batman character movie and Warner was like no make it big make the danger bigger make more action set pieces. Also maybe show batman actually being hurt instead of some invulnerable unblemished super hero who can take a grenade to the face. I felt this was the best looking batman costume wise and honestly the best interpretation of batman, few words more mysterious and kind of a brooding weirdo. Alot the indivdual parts were good, the acting was all top notch especially Gordon, Catwoman, and Riddler hell even Pattinson as Batman (but not as Bruce Wayne) was good. The action set pieces were also good but the invulnerability of the characters detracted from their feel. The tone and look was very good and some of the shots were really good like Batman with the flare and the fight lit by gunfire, tho again some shots lingered a few secs too long. Reeves just didn't fit all the parts together to be great. Still probably the 3rd best Batman (4th if you count Joker) and the 2nd best movie of the DCEU even if you discount that it basically ignored every other movie.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Michael Knight

[Michael Knight 12981]

12 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Danny Devito as the Penguin was the best batman villain yet.

 

uh......what

[Michael Knight 12981]

Also really liked the use of Nirvana Something in the Way but maybe thats just my GenX bleeding thru

[Michael Knight 12981]

23 hours ago, sidis said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

the whole sea wall blowing and then setting up the qanon followers up as snipers in madison square garden was not enjoyable or believable imo.  it felt like they really did not know what to do there.  a million cops and no one notices any of these guys walking around the scoreboard with rifles and riddler masks on?  all of manhattan/gotham was flooded but the power was still on?  44 below had been around since before falcone made the deal but batman had never heard of it?  batsuit deflecting with virtually no consequences shotgun, 556 or 762 rounds at point blank?  lots of stuff like that.  but the up to arresting the riddler was generally enjoyable imo.

 

I mean you don't really have to go that far back in our history to find parallels 

[4th&Five 41558]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

Also really liked the use of Nirvana Something in the Way but maybe thats just my GenX bleeding thru

It has been in my head all week!

[sidis 9828]

2 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Also really liked the use of Nirvana Something in the Way but maybe thats just my GenX bleeding thru

 

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

It has been in my head all week!

it was a good use of it.  i actually really liked the trailer version they did as well.

 

 

2 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

I mean you don't really have to go that far back in our history to find parallels 

 

Spoiler

I wasn't saying the qanon nuts getting together online and doing coordinated, violent attacks wasn't the realistic point...i meant their ability to get into madison square garden with no one noticing and just walking around in the rafters with no one noticing...and then after they popped the mayor, no one ever shoots back up despite there being a zillion cops everywhere...at least have them bunker down from a spray of return fire before batman has to save the day.  and the fact that riddler was able to park so many vans full of explosives right next to critical infrastructure for days without anyone noticing.  just could have written it up a bit less lazily.

 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

4 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

uh......what

 

 

[Elvis 3371]

If I was watching at home instead of at the theater with family, I would have turned it off.  I had no connection or interest with any character or plot. Boo. 
 

Gunfight light was cool. 

[futureman 22469]

On 3/11/2022 at 4:05 AM, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Danny Devito as the Penguin was the best batman villain yet.

 

[Scraps 13561]

Nothing says badass like 'Robert Pattison'

Jesus christ he just looks like a.massive pussy. Maybe they can get the King of All Pussies Michael Cera to be the next one.

I didn't hate the movie, but at least give me a Wayne/Batman who can be believable as a badass