All Things Transgendered Thread

[David Dennison 18658]

This is a safe space for cisgendered right wingers be offended by something that has no effect on them.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

All bathrooms should be transgender 

[David Dennison 18658]

I would like for someone who has a problem with transgender folks to explain why. What on earth is the problem?

[Celery Man 20886]

bathrooms used to be the only safe space from the ms-13s.  no more.

[David Dennison 18658]

Gender neutral?

[softlynow 1783]

Libs need to make up their mind. Is “trans-“ a good prefix or a bad prefix? Transfat, bad, transgender, good. It’s all so confusing. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2659]

deleted ...  sorry softly, I misjudged ye.

Edited February 13, 2019 by ChuckNorrisActionJeans

[wildcat09 29256]

1 minute ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

It means "across" ...I assume you knew that and you are just another bad-at-comedy right-winger?

Might want to check that sarcasm meter.

[Spankytoes 1736]

51 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I would like for someone who has a problem with transgender folks to explain why. What on earth is the problem?

I assume this is aimed at me. My answer may be a letdown for you.

I don't have a problem with transgendered people as an idea. If you want to wear a dress and take hormones to grow tits, fine by me. I'll even call you a "she" if that's your preferred pronoun. It doesn't mean that I think, in any way, that you are actually a woman. I am doing it to be polite in the same manner that I don't point out that a girl is fat or how I bow my head when someone prays before a meal out of respect for their beliefs. You were born a man and still remain a biological man.

I'm not interested in the semantics of using "sex" and "gender" interchangeably to demonstrate whether or not they are social constructs. (We won't agree). Nor am I interested in discussing bigotry based on a more open and candid discussion I have on a message board that doesn't reflect my actual life. I am not actively making a trans person's life miserable. Frankly, it's not an issue I think or care about frequently. 

So, there's really no problem other than your ability to accept that someone may have a different worldview than yourself.

[Sbbruin 21736]

 

[David Dennison 18658]

5 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I assume this is aimed at me. My answer may be a letdown for you.

I don't have a problem with transgendered people as an idea. If you want to wear a dress and take hormones to grow tits, fine by me. I'll even call you a "she" if that's your preferred pronoun. It doesn't mean that I think, in any way, that you are actually a woman. I am doing it to be polite in the same manner that I don't point out that a girl is fat or how I bow my head when someone prays before a meal out of respect for their beliefs. You were born a man and still remain a biological man.

I'm not interested in the semantics of using "sex" and "gender" interchangeably to demonstrate whether or not they are social constructs. (We won't agree). Nor am I interested in discussing bigotry based on a more open and candid discussion I have on a message board that doesn't reflect my actual life. I am not actively making a trans person's life miserable. Frankly, it's not an issue I think or care about frequently. 

So, there's really no problem other than your ability to accept that someone may have a different worldview than yourself.

Oh. So you don't understand at all. 

Cool.

[Spankytoes 1736]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Oh. So you don't understand at all. 

Cool.

Enlighten me

[David Dennison 18658]

3 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Enlighten me

You can be born male and be a woman. You can be born female and be a man.

Gender is dynamic.

[RDCanecutter 26275]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

All bathrooms should be transgender 

Sewage plants are.

[Spankytoes 1736]

2 minutes ago, Pokemon said:

Everything you said is infuriating selfish bullshit. Woe is you for being so put upon by another's existence. It must be exhausting for you having to be so damn "polite" all the time. I mean wouldn't it be great if you could be as rotten, dismissive and disrespectful as you want to be. I'm sorry your free speech is so infringed. How dare people nuisance you with their existential vanities.

Great. Now back it up with facts, not feelings. I could not care less about how my stance makes you “feel”. Quite honestly, fuck your feelings.

[Spankytoes 1736]

Just now, David Dennison said:

You can be born male and be a woman. You can be born female and be a man.

Gender is dynamic.

Based on what standard? As you and I agree about abortion rights, let’s not use Kleinfelders as a basis like aborting to save the mom’s life. We can stipulate that there are rare cases where this blanket generalization has exceptions.

[Spankytoes 1736]

Just now, Pokemon said:

Every one of your truths was revealed to me by your use of the word "tits" instead of "breasts". You're an asshole. So just be the asshole you want to be!

Come out of your asshole closet and bloom. Don't be such a coward.

I am a noted and proud asshole. Try harder 

[Atx71 146]

3 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Great. Now back it up with facts, not feelings. I could not care less about how my stance makes you “feel”. Quite honestly, fuck your feelings.

Epigenetics. Google it. Things are not as simple as Trump's brain. 

[safe sex 11680]

Unfortunate thread title.

[David Dennison 18658]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

Based on what standard? As you and I agree about abortion rights, let’s not use Kleinfelders as a basis like aborting to save the mom’s life. We can stipulate that there are rare cases where this blanket generalization has exceptions.

Based on social standards. If you want to be a woman, you are a woman. If you want to be a man, you are a man. If you want to be both be both. That is not the same thing as biologically male, female, or a combination of both.

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

12 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Enlighten me

Not possible. Your mind is closed. You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. You're being dishonest by the mere suggestion that you're open to enlightenment. 

[David Dennison 18658]

1 minute ago, trauma babe said:

Unfortunate thread title.

It was that or Transgender Talk Not Going Away.

[Spankytoes 1736]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Based on social standards. If you want to be a woman, you are a woman. If you want to be a man, you are a man. If you want to be both be both. That is not the same thing as biologically male, female, or a combination of both.

So it’s a waste of both our time as we’re locked into a circular argument.

[David Dennison 18658]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

So it’s a waste of both our time as we’re locked into a circular argument.

What makes someone a man?

[Guest Lobo]

Nobody is actually entirely  "Male" or "Female", they are just male or female dominant, 51% or so.  Unless you just have the one arm, nobody is left-handed or right-handed, you are lefthand-dominant or righthand-dominant.  You aren't gay or straight, you're just more of one or the other.  You're not entirely 100% one race or another.  You don't actually adhere 100% to the thoughts, beliefs, and practices of one particular religion or faith.  Nobody was born with 100% pure blue or brown eyes, there's a little hue in there of another color. 

If you think you're more male than female, even though you were tagged "female" at the hospital, so be it.  Despite my birth certificate and what my elementary school teachers said about my handwriting, I'm a little Jewish, a little ambidextrous, and a little gay.    Almost every single aspect of the human experience is a fluid spectrum.  Nobody is 100% male or 100% female.  To be fair, it's gonna get on people's nerves if you wake up everyday and post to social media that Tuesday is feelin' like a 60/40 day, so "get ready, world!"  The only thing I respect more than your choices is the discipline to be consistent. 

[Spankytoes 1736]

Just now, WhatTheBuck said:

Not possible. Your mind is closed. You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. You're being dishonest by the mere suggestion that you're open to enlightenment. 

I am open to facts, statistics or anything else worth merit for the discussion. I’m not interested in social acceptence or feelings, which typically reflect YOUR feelings, not mine. Trans people really don’t affect my life or self-worth. I know that’s not a good bumper sticker slogan, but at least it’s intellectually honest. Mental illness is a serious topic, but I think enabling behavior is more destructive. 

[RDCanecutter 26275]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

What makes someone a man?

Getting in a fight in grade school because if he doesn't, the other kids will pick on him more.

Or getting a big truck that he saw in an ad where a guy talks real slow in a gravel voice.

[David Dennison 18658]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

I am open to facts, statistics or anything else worth merit for the discussion. I’m not interested in social acceptence or feelings, which typically reflect YOUR feelings, not mine. Trans people really don’t affect my life or self-worth. I know that’s not a good bumper sticker slogan, but at least it’s intellectually honest. Mental illness is a serious topic, but I think enabling behavior is more destructive. 

What does mental illness have to do with being transgender?

[wildcat09 29256]

"FACTS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELS!" I shout, dressed in a diaper, while crying and slamming my binky on the table.

[ztejas 43266]

9 minutes ago, Pokemon said:

He's testing the waters for more bigoted talking points. The man is a bigot. But he doesn't care that he is. 

No, he's probably making the point that transgenders (or those that identify as such) have a much higher rate of suicide than the general population as well as higher rates of a host of other mental health issues. 

Societal ostracism probably explains some of it but certainly not all of it. 

Personally, I don't think being a transgender is a mental health disorder in itself, but other disorders frequently accompany it. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by ztejas
Also, stay on topic. I always find this discussion interesting. I am not interested in Trump's wall.

[workswithseed 2036]

Why do y'all hate TERFs so much?

[Telegraph_it 3354]

Damn, I must have missed where Spanky said he hated transgender people. Pokemon keep up the namecalling, it adds significantly to the discussion.

I've never had to question what my gender or sexuality is, and therefore I cannot empathize with those that do. If it makes someone happier to be viewed differently that is great and all the power to them. Do I personally need to give that person approval? No, I do not think I do, and I do not see why that should be a problem for anyone. 

[David Dennison 18658]

Just now, Telegraph_it said:

Damn, I must have missed where Spanky said he hated transgender people. Pokemon keep up the namecalling, it adds significantly to the discussion.

I've never had to question what my gender or sexuality is, and therefore I cannot empathize with those that do. If it makes someone happier to be viewed differently that is great and all the power to them. Do I personally need to give that person approval? No, I do not think I do, and I do not see why that should be a problem for anyone. 

Because it leads to discrimination.

[Dahobbs 17447]

41 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I'm not interested in the semantics of using "sex" and "gender" interchangeably to demonstrate whether or not they are social constructs. (We won't agree). Nor am I interested in discussing bigotry based on a more open and candid discussion I have on a message board that doesn't reflect my actual life. I am not actively making a trans person's life miserable. Frankly, it's not an issue I think or care about frequently. 

Hey guys, I'm open to learning about how the solar system works. But I don't want to hear anything about a "heliocentric" model or whether the Earth circles the sun (we won't agree). I just want to hear about the things I already believe regardless of evidence.

Anyway, gender is a social construct as it is primarily about identity and behavior within a group. Group being the key word there. It isn't about an individual in isolation, but an individual within a group. Thus, social construct. We make an assumption at birth that a person's gender will correspond with the behavioral characteristics most commonly associated with their sex, but this is just an assumption. It is empirically not true for all individuals, which is why gender has been heavily studied among the social sciences. It is also the reason many governments allow you to change your gender classification. 

Sex is biologically driven and is the term we use when discussing "hard science." Until DNA modification becomes legal and more advanced, you're sex is set at birth. Interestingly, I believe the emerging consensus is that gender is set at birth too. The fundamental difference is that sex is easily discernible at birth, whereas we are making an educated guess at gender based on population wide statistics. Actual gender doesn't become obvious until later development. 

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

Says a lot that SpankyToes says he doesn't know or run into transgenders but he is happy to be openly bigoted when dealing with them.  This is very much a foxnews viewpoint.  Far fewer people that actually deal with transgendered folks would have that type of attitude.  

Far more people/rubes buy into the boogeyman concept foxnews puts out there...be scared, be VERY scared.  I don't think this is spanky but it's funny to see him espouse the same views while clearly being too cool for the whole situation.  

[Goredho 17348]

This thread could go in a couple of different ways.

[Spankytoes 1736]

11 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

Damn, I must have missed where Spanky said he hated transgender people. Pokemon keep up the namecalling, it adds significantly to the discussion.

I've never had to question what my gender or sexuality is, and therefore I cannot empathize with those that do. If it makes someone happier to be viewed differently that is great and all the power to them. Do I personally need to give that person approval? No, I do not think I do, and I do not see why that should be a problem for anyone. 

Bingo

This is a thread discussing trans people and our view of such. I specifically posted that I would be polite to a trans person and call them by their preferred pronoun. Why? Because it’s the polite thing to do.

Yet, not one time has the guy presented anything substantive based on facts, studies, research, etc. that we can discuss. He throws a hissy fit, stamps his feet and hurls poor attempts at insults based on things I never said. Because I don’t agree with his viewpoint, I’m a bigot. He is right about that one though. I do not give a shit if he thinks that I’m bigoted because I know that it’s an incorrect assessment. IDGAF about trans people or their plight for acceptance provided that you aren’t asking me to deny my intellectual honesty based on scientific facts.

[High Plains Drifter 10977]

45 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Nobody is actually entirely  "Male" or "Female", they are just male or female dominant, 51% or so.  Unless you just have the one arm, nobody is left-handed or right-handed, you are lefthand-dominant or righthand-dominant.  You aren't gay or straight, you're just more of one or the other.  You're not entirely 100% one race or another.  You don't actually adhere 100% to the thoughts, beliefs, and practices of one particular religion or faith.  Nobody was born with 100% pure blue or brown eyes, there's a little hue in there of another color. 

If you think you're more male than female, even though you were tagged "female" at the hospital, so be it.  Despite my birth certificate and what my elementary school teachers said about my handwriting, I'm a little Jewish, a little ambidextrous, and a little gay.    Almost every single aspect of the human experience is a fluid spectrum.  Nobody is 100% male or 100% female.  To be fair, it's gonna get on people's nerves if you wake up everyday and post to social media that Tuesday is feelin' like a 60/40 day, so "get ready, world!"  The only thing I respect more than your choices is the discipline to be consistent. 

This makes sense, because I'm a little bit country, and I'm a little bit rock and roll.

[David Dennison 18658]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

Bingo

This is a thread discussing trans people and our view of such. I specifically posted that I would be polite to a trans person and call them by their preferred pronoun. Why? Because it’s the polite thing to do.

Yet, not one time has the guy presented anything substantive based on facts, studies, research, etc. that we can discuss. He throws a hissy fit, stamps his feet and hurls poor attempts at insults based on things I never said. Because I don’t agree with his viewpoint, I’m a bigot. He is right about that one though. I do not give a shit if he thinks that I’m bigoted because I know that it’s an incorrect assessment. IDGAF about trans people or their plight for acceptance provided that you aren’t asking me to deny my intellectual honesty based on scientific facts.

The science is against you. That's what you fail to understand.

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

Here's my question: why don't they make the entire plane out of the black box? 

[Spankytoes 1736]

21 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Says a lot that SpankyToes says he doesn't know or run into transgenders but he is happy to be openly bigoted when dealing with them.  This is very much a foxnews viewpoint.  Far fewer people that actually deal with transgendered folks would have that type of attitude.  

Far more people/rubes buy into the boogeyman concept foxnews puts out there...be scared, be VERY scared.  I don't think this is spanky but it's funny to see him espouse the same views while clearly being too cool for the whole situation.  

I work with, and actively hang out with one trans woman and one trans man. In fact, I went to Cuba on vacation with my trans woman friend who is also...wait for it...black. We even shared an AirBNB together.

Keep thinking you know me though. It’s cute.

[ztejas 43266]

2 minutes ago, Pokemon said:

It's not a (strictly) scientific issue. And you don't care about this anyway. You don't care about anything said to you. Moreover you're basically saying "crazy dude with tits".

Science debates don't include the word tits. You're a bigot not a scientist.

Well you just don't like tits, that's your problem. 

[Huckleberry 32701]

1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

I assume this is aimed at me. My answer may be a letdown for you.

I don't have a problem with transgendered people as an idea. If you want to wear a dress and take hormones to grow tits, fine by me. I'll even call you a "she" if that's your preferred pronoun. It doesn't mean that I think, in any way, that you are actually a woman. I am doing it to be polite in the same manner that I don't point out that a girl is fat or how I bow my head when someone prays before a meal out of respect for their beliefs. You were born a man and still remain a biological man.

I'm not interested in the semantics of using "sex" and "gender" interchangeably to demonstrate whether or not they are social constructs. (We won't agree). Nor am I interested in discussing bigotry based on a more open and candid discussion I have on a message board that doesn't reflect my actual life. I am not actively making a trans person's life miserable. Frankly, it's not an issue I think or care about frequently. 

So, there's really no problem other than your ability to accept that someone may have a different worldview than yourself.

lulz

Here comes spanky valiantly trying to turn himself into a victim again.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Huckleberry

[Spankytoes 1736]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The science is against you. That's what you fail to understand.

Great. Show me the evidence so we can discuss it. A report, a statistic...anything really. As long as it’s not part of a news story or reflects your arbitrary statement that “you’re wrong, I’m right” I’m interested. I will do the same when we have an actual discussion going on. That’s how this sort of thing works. 

[David Dennison 18658]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Great. Show me the evidence so we can discuss it. A report, a statistic...anything really. As long as it’s not part of a news story or reflects your arbitrary statement that “you’re wrong, I’m right” I’m interested. I will do the same when we have an actual discussion going on. That’s how this sort of thing works. 

Start here. If you have questions, follow the resources at the bottom. But stop being obtuse.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/transgender-facts/art-20266812

http://transhealth.ucsf.edu/trans?page=home-00-00

Edited February 13, 2019 by David Dennison

[Spankytoes 1736]

4 minutes ago, Pokemon said:

It's not a (strictly) scientific issue. And you don't care about this anyway. You don't care about anything said to you. Moreover you're basically saying "crazy dude with tits".

Science debates don't include the word tits. You're a bigot not a scientist.

You misspelled “misogynist”. Be polite to the label, Sugartits.

[Spankytoes 1736]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Start here. If you have questions, follow the resources at the bottom. But stop being obtuse.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/transgender-facts/art-20266812

I’ll look at it tonight more in-depth, as I’m about to get off the train, but that’s not really what I’m looking for at first glance. I don’t need a list of definitions of what all these terms are defined as, according to the Mayo Clinic. I’m looking for a scientific study showing that a biological man can become a biological woman. My argument is that it is not possible. To be frank, I’m not 100% sure what your argument is beyond a man can become a woman in a social construct, which is easy to disbunk even if I conceded that this was correct.

[Dahobbs 17447]

6 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Great. Show me the evidence so we can discuss it. A report, a statistic...anything really. As long as it’s not part of a news story or reflects your arbitrary statement that “you’re wrong, I’m right” I’m interested. I will do the same when we have an actual discussion going on. That’s how this sort of thing works. 

Here is an interesting read:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5824932/

But I'm not sure what evidence you want to discuss. Gender and sex are recognized as a distinct concepts for humans by pretty much anyone who studies either. You want to ignore that distinction because . . . I guess you find it inconvenient? I don't really understand your reasoning, but it makes discussion impossible. 

[Spankytoes 1736]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Here is an interesting read:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5824932/

But I'm not sure what evidence you want to discuss. Gender and sex are recognized as a distinct concepts for humans by pretty much anyone who studies either. You want to ignore that distinction because . . . I guess you find it inconvenient? I don't really understand your reasoning, but it makes discussion impossible. 

Will look at and discuss this too. I disagree with your premise and will respond in kind with evidence.

[Dahobbs 17447]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

I’ll look at it tonight more in-depth, as I’m about to get off the train, but that’s not really what I’m looking for at first glance. I don’t need a list of definitions of what all these terms are defined as, according to the Mayo Clinic. I’m looking for a scientific study showing that a biological man can become a biological woman.

No one has said that sex is changeable, although I assume theoretically possible with sufficiently advanced DNA editing. And, as I said earlier, it isn't even clear that gender is changeable. The issue is that gender and sex aren't the same concepts, although they are often related.