All Things Transgendered Thread

[Brisketexan 106694]

Gender is an issue in which I am not on the most progressive end of the scale.  But, I try to temper that with a healthy dose of "who gives a shit," and "when in doubt, choose kindness."

I don't think there's any objective or empirical debate that having gender identity issues -- whether closeted or open -- is a tough road, and has a higher-than-normal correlation to mental illness/poor mental state.  I have no idea if that's the chicken or the egg, I just know that there's a correlation.  And it saddens me.  I don't like to see any human being hurting and in pain, and so many of the people I know who are dealing with transgender issues have been and sometimes remain in some sort of pain.

I don't care what the cause, cure, etc. is, I just know that the inescapable feeling of being a man trapped in a woman's body, or some similar permutation, must be hellish.  Shit, there's plenty of times it's hard enough being a man in a man's body.

I just want folks - people like Troph - to be happy and healthy.  To do that, you have to have a healthy relationship with yourself, and with others.  So, take the path to get there.

I will confess to at times getting annoyed with the increasingly frequent "my new name is X, and now you should call me they or zey or whatever."  You know what?  I knew you as Jane, or Steve, for years.  Moving the target and making demands of those around you IS an imposition.  No, it's not a huge one, and yes, I try my best to go along with it.  But it becomes a lot to remember sometimes (and yes, maybe this says something about the social circles my wife and I move in -- I imagine if we were big in the Baptist church, it wouldn't be as common).  But it's gotten to the point that when she tells me "so and so has decided to transition," I sigh and say "really?  Okay, whatever." 

I do wonder whether, for some folks, now that it's become more acceptable, they see transitioning as a generic "cure for what ails me."  As in, "I'm miserable being me," and the most obvious path to being someone else is to change gender.  I don't know.  But I hypothesize that there's some of this going on. Which, again, goes back to having a bad mental state from the beginning.  Do I care?  Yes, but mostly to the extent of not wanting to see people latching onto a "cure" that really isn't a cure for their particular ailment.

In the end, I shouldn't care, except to the extent that I care about my fellow human beings, and want everyone to live as good, happy, and healthy a life as they can.  Sometimes, that may mean pushing back against claiming a gender issue.  Sometimes, that may mean embracing a gender change.  I'm not smart enough to figure out which.  So I just hope that folks are working with a good mental health professional along the way.  Most folks I know like that are....but a few aren't.  And honestly, those few are the ones I have the most doubts and concerns about.  But I still just want them to end up someplace that's good for them.

I don't care whether Troph is my brother (he was) or my sister (she is) -- she's a fellow child of God, and I need to love her all the same.  I wish that she didn't face the difficult path she has faced.  But her path is her path.  I hope that she succeeds, and that it brings peace to her and those around her.  I wish the same for all like her.  When we come to the fork in the road of "judge" or "be kind," so long as the action discussed isn't one of meanness or spite intended to harm another, we should generally choose "be kind."  I don't always get that right.  But I know that I need to try to do so.

[ndawg 1242]

27 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Actually I don't, which is why I am asking them. Help me understand:

Biological male that identifies as a woman is a woman. Biological male that has had gender reassignment surgery to physically appear as a woman is also a woman. One has a penis, the other has a vagina but both are women. Is one more woman than the other? I think Leo DiCaprio is an attractive man. I would not be interested in having sex with him if he identified and made himself appear as a woman. Shouldn't I have the right to know what's between his legs or am I supposed to be denied my rights as a straight guy that doesn't believe your terms of social constructs? Despite popular opinion on this thread, intolerance isn't a one-way street. You certainly wouldn't advocate that religion should be the default despite the law. (At least I hope you wouldn't)

I know the answers to those questions in the sense that I don't buy the premise that a man can become a woman based on a subjective feeling. I would consider the guy fucking a trans woman as either gay or bi, which is perfectly fine. At best, he's curious. I know my answer already. I'm interested in yours.

Start contextualizing and stop overgeneralizing. In the context of two grown adults exploring a mutual romantic partnership, uncomfortable questions about biological sex are entirely understandable. In the context of two grown adults agreeing to have sex, it's completely fair to expect potential partners to be explicit about any surprises that will emerge after unzipping.

The fact that you are asking these questions suggests to me that, while you seem to have a strong opinion on the matter, you might not have researched it all that thoroughly...

[Spankytoes 1748]

57 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Why would I need any data to defend my position? The trans community (particularly within academia) is the world's foremost authority on what it's like to be a trans person. You and I are not. And you would need to have studied the subject matter to a comparable depth as they have in order to bring an argument worth their consideration, because otherwise you'd just be talking out your ass and saying things that sound right in your head.

And there's nothing wrong with talking out one's ass, by the way, it's the reality for most of us laymen participating in political discussions like this. But I do take issue with posturing as if your position was reached after thorough, impartial analysis and research -- which is exactly what I think you're doing when you ask me for data that would refute your highly speculative position. You're essentially saying, "I'll only be convinced by a compelling argument," which suggests that you've already been convinced by some other compelling argument. I don't think you have, though.

Here's the problem I have with your argument: so long as you perceive the trans community as a political one, you are prone to ignore any research and analysis that led them to their conclusion. Climate science works the same way in the political arena -- because the issue has been perverted into a political one, many deniers refuse to consider the arguments brought forth by scientists because of a perceived political bias.

Once you've actually made an effort to understand what transgendered people experience, I suspect that you'll find on your own that your argument isn't tenable.

There is nothing about my taken position that is politicized. In fact, the exact opposite is true. I believe that a man is a man and a woman is a woman as we have come to know the term throughout human history. The counterargument is where the definition gets political. Instead of accepting that some men are more effeminate and some girls are more butch we are redefining basic science to mean something completely different and arbitrary claiming intolerance of those that don't unquestionably agree with the position. I have asked for scientific data showing that this is true and have provided a study of my own. While I am by no means an expert, and don't expect others on this board to be, I have done a lot of research on the subject because I do want to understand it better. The only irrefutable evidence I have found to support their argument is that it is based on feelings rather than facts. Isn't that the entire premise to begin with? I feel like a woman and therefore I subjectively identify as a woman because sex is malleable. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. I just need something more than social group think to be woke or progressive to consider. I have posed several other scenarios, such as identifying as 70 as a biological 30 year old, that no one wants to respond to because they have a predominately Liberal space on this board where they don't have to. When the counterargument to logic is to shout down your opponent and chant slogans, you have a bad argument. 

Effectively, you are recognizing my entire point: Sex is not political, it's biological. 

[Spankytoes 1748]

1 hour ago, ndawg said:

Start contextualizing and stop overgeneralizing. In the context of two grown adults exploring a mutual romantic partnership, uncomfortable questions about biological sex are entirely understandable. In the context of two grown adults agreeing to have sex, it's completely fair to expect potential partners to be explicit about any surprises that will emerge after unzipping.

The fact that you are asking these questions suggests to me that, while you seem to have a strong opinion on the matter, you might not have researched it all that thoroughly...

I am not generalizing. I am asking a completely valid, and simplistic question: Is a trans woman with a penis as much of a woman as a trans woman that is post op? Same social construct, different plumbing. Based on your answer to that question, there is a flowchart to follow. The foreknowledge of your partner's genitals is one of several boxes. Sexual orientation is another. 

My strong opinion has been consistent:I don't think you're a woman. That has no bearing on treating a trans woman with respect or referring to her with her preferred pronoun. (As I have done with my postings on Tropheus, whom I am not a fan of, but believe deserves human dignity) 

[David Dennison 19444]

11 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I am not generalizing. I am asking a completely valid, and simplistic question: Is a trans woman with a penis as much of a woman as a trans woman that is post op? Same social construct, different plumbing. Based on your answer to that question, there is a flowchart to follow. The foreknowledge of your partner's genitals is one of several boxes. Sexual orientation is another. 

My strong opinion has been consistent:I don't think you're a woman. That has no bearing on treating a trans woman with respect or referring to her with her preferred pronoun. (As I have done with my postings on Tropheus, whom I am not a fan of, but believe deserves human dignity) 

But she does, and knowingly refusing to acknowledge her as such a sign of willful disrespect.

[Brisketexan 106694]

The issue is whether one looks at gender as a 100% biological construct. If that’s your position, then you’re going to approach it like Spanky. I don’t agree with that approach, and I think it ignores the complexity that we now understand, but I at least understand it.
Of course, people use to think that race was a legitimate major biological construct, and phrenology was good science, etc. Our knowledge evolves. And, in either state - the old or the new - it is driven at least in part by social constructs.
Interestingly, what science is realizing is that gender is, in some respects, a social construct. Girls like to play with dolls - it’s biology. Except...some girls don’t. And that’s biology, too. And in some cases, the difference from outward gender is so profound that it’s closer to being the “other” gender.
The social construct issue is a challenge, because it’s difficult to render it in entirely objective/material terms. On one end, it’s absurd that someone who is clearly female, acts female, etc, says “I’m a guy, call me a guy.” Gender takes more than just you saying so. By the same token...it’s absurd to insist that someone is male when literally everything about them except their plumbing is female.
And....the science is still developing and it’s a moving target.
Troph is unquestionably more female than male - the plumbing I can’t see is not determinative.
Shit, there’s something other-gender in all of us (I’ve watched a Hallmark movie or two, and even enjoyed a few - that doesn’t make me a chick. It makes me a dude with questionably eclectic taste...with a chick-ish attribute).
But who gives a fuck, we have leadership that mostly looks at this issue as an opportunity to show what mean dickheads they can be, so fuck it.

[bad_teammate 13485]

3 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

Define "trans woman". A trans woman that is post-op and has a vagina or a trans woman that still needs to be checked for testicular cancer? Should there be a distinction?

Whether or not there should be a distinction depends on the context.

Quote

Are you straight if you fuck a trans woman with a dick in the ass because you both identify her as a woman?

Yes, of course you're straight. You had sex with her because you were attracted to her as a woman. That's what straight means.

Quote

Is it intolerant to not want a chick with a dick to give you a blowjob?

To not want it? No.

To tell everyone who will listen how much you don't want it? Probably.

Quote

If she docks with a straight guy, is she straight, despite being a biological male that identifies as a woman...which makes now make her a lesbian?

Tropheus is a woman, so if she's attracted to women then that makes her a lesbian.

Quote

Biological male that identifies as a woman is a woman. Biological male that has had gender reassignment surgery to physically appear as a woman is also a woman. One has a penis, the other has a vagina but both are women. Is one more woman than the other?

No.

Quote

Shouldn't I have the right to know what's between his legs or am I supposed to be denied my rights as a straight guy that doesn't believe your terms of social constructs?

I have no idea what "my rights as a straight guy" means, but people should respond honestly when asked a question by potential sexual partners.

Quote

I would consider the guy fucking a trans woman as either gay or bi, which is perfectly fine.

This doesn't make any sense. This is literally how 12-year-olds think.

[Spankytoes 1748]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Whether or not there should be a distinction depends on the context.

Yes, of course you're straight. You had sex with her because you were attracted to her as a woman. That's what straight means.

To not want it? No.

To tell everyone who will listen how much you don't want it? Probably.

Tropheus is a woman, so if she's attracted to women then that makes her a lesbian.

No.

I have no idea what "my rights as a straight guy" means, but people should respond honestly when asked a question by potential sexual partners.

This doesn't make any sense. This is literally how 12-year-olds think.

Thank you for that, even the last jibe. Respect for answering questions honestly without posing another question to avoid answering mine. 

[bad_teammate 13485]

1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

There is nothing about my taken position that is politicized.

...

I just need something more than social group think to be woke or progressive to consider.

...

no one wants to respond to because they have a predominately Liberal space on this board where they don't have to.

You are very dishonest.

[bad_teammate 13485]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

Thank you for that, even the last jibe. Respect for answering questions honestly without posing another question to avoid answering mine. 

Please ask more questions.

Like you, I have thought a lot about this.

[Spankytoes 1748]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Please ask more questions.

Like you, I have thought a lot about this.

This has dominated a lot of my day the past few days, so I may at some point. Whether or not we can come to a consensus is irrelevant. Actual discussion is what matters to me. I disagree with a lot of your answers but at least I better understand your point of view. The shitty thing is that there are several people on this board who share my viewpoint that either don't want to expend the time to answer or know what they risk by doing so. Some of them couldn't give a shit at all and avoid the discussion like the plague. I don't have that problem. I'm not trying to win a popularity contest, and despite Hayden's oft repeated wisdom, I'm also not trolling. I 100% believe the viewpoint I am portraying. 

I've looked into it because it conflicts with what I thought was my basic understanding of tolerance. I considered myself Liberal and never had a problem with gays. While not exactly an exact comparison, I could never get aboard the trans movement. I'm starting to see that I'm not nearly as Liberal as I thought, or at least, once was. 

[Brisketexan 106694]

This has dominated a lot of my day the past few days, so I may at some point. Whether or not we can come to a consensus is irrelevant. Actual discussion is what matters to me. I disagree with a lot of your answers but at least I better understand your point of view. The shitty thing is that there are several people on this board who share my viewpoint that either don't want to expend the time to answer or know what they risk by doing so. Some of them couldn't give a shit at all and avoid the discussion like the plague. I don't have that problem. I'm not trying to win a popularity contest, and despite Hayden's oft repeated wisdom, I'm also not trolling. I 100% believe the viewpoint I am portraying. 
I've looked into it because it conflicts with what I thought was my basic understanding of tolerance. I considered myself Liberal and never had a problem with gays. While not exactly an exact comparison, I could never get aboard the trans movement. I'm starting to see that I'm not nearly as Liberal as I thought, or at least, once was. 

You’re getting older. Progress passes us by. It happens. But if we really do some objective homework and listen, we don’t ossify quite as much.

[wildcat09 29569]

5 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

This has dominated a lot of my day the past few days, so I may at some point. Whether or not we can come to a consensus is irrelevant. Actual discussion is what matters to me. I disagree with a lot of your answers but at least I better understand your point of view. The shitty thing is that there are several people on this board who share my viewpoint that either don't want to expend the time to answer or know what they risk by doing so. Some of them couldn't give a shit at all and avoid the discussion like the plague. I don't have that problem. I'm not trying to win a popularity contest, and despite Hayden's oft repeated wisdom, I'm also not trolling. I 100% believe the viewpoint I am portraying. 

I've looked into it because it conflicts with what I thought was my basic understanding of tolerance. I considered myself Liberal and never had a problem with gays. While not exactly an exact comparison, I could never get aboard the trans movement. I'm starting to see that I'm not nearly as Liberal as I thought, or at least, once was. 

I'm picking up a lot of feelings and not much HARD LOGIC AND REASON here.

[bad_teammate 13485]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

The shitty thing is that there are several people on this board who share my viewpoint that either don't want to expend the time to answer or know what they risk by doing so.

What risk are you talking about?

[bad_teammate 13485]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

I'm picking up a lot of feelings and not much HARD LOGIC AND REASON here.

Well yeah, it's a lot of fear.

- Fear of being yelled at
- Fear of feeling bypassed
- Fear of not knowing whether or not that pretty lady has a penis and how you'll transform into Liberace if you misclock
- Pretending there is a risk of being hornswaggled by a trans woman when, in reality, you are not in any sexual marketplaces, haven't been for decades, and likely never will be again

[Kyle 207]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Gender is an issue in which I am not on the most progressive end of the scale.  But, I try to temper that with a healthy dose of "who gives a shit," and "when in doubt, choose kindness."

I don't think there's any objective or empirical debate that having gender identity issues -- whether closeted or open -- is a tough road, and has a higher-than-normal correlation to mental illness/poor mental state.  I have no idea if that's the chicken or the egg, I just know that there's a correlation.  And it saddens me.  I don't like to see any human being hurting and in pain, and so many of the people I know who are dealing with transgender issues have been and sometimes remain in some sort of pain.

I don't care what the cause, cure, etc. is, I just know that the inescapable feeling of being a man trapped in a woman's body, or some similar permutation, must be hellish.  Shit, there's plenty of times it's hard enough being a man in a man's body.

I just want folks - people like Troph - to be happy and healthy.  To do that, you have to have a healthy relationship with yourself, and with others.  So, take the path to get there.

I will confess to at times getting annoyed with the increasingly frequent "my new name is X, and now you should call me they or zey or whatever."  You know what?  I knew you as Jane, or Steve, for years.  Moving the target and making demands of those around you IS an imposition.  No, it's not a huge one, and yes, I try my best to go along with it.  But it becomes a lot to remember sometimes (and yes, maybe this says something about the social circles my wife and I move in -- I imagine if we were big in the Baptist church, it wouldn't be as common).  But it's gotten to the point that when she tells me "so and so has decided to transition," I sigh and say "really?  Okay, whatever." 

I do wonder whether, for some folks, now that it's become more acceptable, they see transitioning as a generic "cure for what ails me."  As in, "I'm miserable being me," and the most obvious path to being someone else is to change gender.  I don't know.  But I hypothesize that there's some of this going on. Which, again, goes back to having a bad mental state from the beginning.  Do I care?  Yes, but mostly to the extent of not wanting to see people latching onto a "cure" that really isn't a cure for their particular ailment.

In the end, I shouldn't care, except to the extent that I care about my fellow human beings, and want everyone to live as good, happy, and healthy a life as they can.  Sometimes, that may mean pushing back against claiming a gender issue.  Sometimes, that may mean embracing a gender change.  I'm not smart enough to figure out which.  So I just hope that folks are working with a good mental health professional along the way.  Most folks I know like that are....but a few aren't.  And honestly, those few are the ones I have the most doubts and concerns about.  But I still just want them to end up someplace that's good for them.

I don't care whether Troph is my brother (he was) or my sister (she is) -- she's a fellow child of God, and I need to love her all the same.  I wish that she didn't face the difficult path she has faced.  But her path is her path.  I hope that she succeeds, and that it brings peace to her and those around her.  I wish the same for all like her.  When we come to the fork in the road of "judge" or "be kind," so long as the action discussed isn't one of meanness or spite intended to harm another, we should generally choose "be kind."  I don't always get that right.  But I know that I need to try to do so.

I agree with this sentiment as well as ST. I am probably too practical and not emotional enough for this board, but I do not think creating a world where everyone just decides their sex, age, race, etc., day-to-day is productive.  

I also think this trope that "anyone who disagrees with me" hates X. If you read through this thread, the only hatred, intolerance, and bigotry behind displayed is by those who oppose ST. He's been nothing but respectful and rational while 99% of what he gets - beside questions to avoid answers - is immature personal attacks. I realize the intellectually lazy fall back on your some kind of "-ist" (you don't support illegal immigration, you're a racist; you don't support voter fraud, you're a racist), but it is for 11th grade debaters.

Similarly, just becasue I do not want a guy showering with my teenage daughter does not mean I hate anyone. Similarly, the phony hysterics of people getting assulated for using the ladies room is more emotional stupidity promulgated by special interest groups. No one hates anyone because they do not think we need to legislate where someone drops a deuce - it is a scare tactic and fund raising device looking for a problem. But social media is fueled by fake news outrage, so we should not be surprised.

I too echo Brisket's point that getting your pecker lopped off and buying a push-up bra may not be the panacea for everyone. It is especially dangerous when whack jobs - worse than ant-vaxxers - start deciding that pre-pubescent children need sex changes. This is no different than gay conversation therapy if not worse becauase it is irreversiable. For those for whom it is the answer, more power to you. I could give too shits, but keep your fucking fascist brownshirts away from me - for fucks's sake just because you got your pecker chopped does not mean you have to go full pussy and lose your shit over a fucking pronoun. Learn from the lesbians and toughen up Sugar Tits.

At the end of the day, I respect ST's attempt to have a conversation ... we should all be leery of the fundamentalism taking root among so many on the Left ... that is exactly how socialism became national socialism. 

[elfenix 34665]

21 minutes ago, Kyle said:

that is exactly how socialism became national socialism. 

[bad_teammate 13485]

26 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I am probably too practical and not emotional enough for this board, but I do not think creating a world where everyone just decides their sex, age, race, etc., day-to-day is productive.

Yes, those of you who spend 90% of your posts talking about how mean everyone is to you are definitely Mr. Too Damn Rational.

Quote

that is exactly how socialism became national socialism. 

What are you even talking about?

("I'm way too practical for you emotionalists.... YOU'RE NAZIS!")

Edited February 14, 2019 by bad_teammate

[Brisketexan 106694]

32 minutes ago, Kyle said:

we should all be leery of the fundamentalism taking root among so many on the Left

And we should be leery as shit of the intractability of conservatives.  That's how we got "God created the separate races, it's an abomination to let them mix, and I'm not ever changing my mind about that."  I tend to think that "if you're born with a dick, you're a man forevermore" is of that type of thinking. But your point is fair -- "open-mindedness" to the extreme is unhealthy for everyone involved.

Truly, what inflamed this issue is the Dan Patrick types using it for cheap political "see how much I love Jesus?  I'll fight against the abominations!" points.  Your kid isn't going to be molested because someone who was born with a dick drops a deuce in the women's room at Walmart.  They're going to be molested because a molester goes after her, and the sign on the bathroom door is going to provide no deterrent at all.  The whole issue was disingenuous -- Dan Patrick wasn't concerned about safety.  He wanted to demonize tha queerz for political points.  In other words, that fork in the road I mentioned -- choose whether or not to be kind?  Dan chose to be a dick.  And he made a vulnerable population his punching bag so he could brag to his base about what a badass fighter he was.  Fuck dickhead moves like that.

Folks are folks, leave 'em be and treat 'em nice.  Shit, I had a party last weekend.  A lobbyist couple who are friends were there, and they were amused by the diversity of the crowd -- we had hippies, a couple of same-sex couples, old folks, young folks, clergy, some well-known and highly visible conservatives, folks who ate my regular chili, folks who ate some vegan chili, the whole mix.  My friend commented specifically "man, this is a MIXED crowd."  I said "dude, it's Austin.  This is Congress avenue at any given moment."

Don't be afraid of people.  Don't be a dick.  It's almost always the right move.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Brisketexan

[wildcat09 29569]

43 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I agree with this sentiment as well as ST. I am probably too practical and not emotional enough for this board, but I do not think creating a world where everyone just decides their sex, age, race, etc., day-to-day is productive.  

I also think this trope that "anyone who disagrees with me" hates X. If you read through this thread, the only hatred, intolerance, and bigotry behind displayed is by those who oppose ST. He's been nothing but respectful and rational while 99% of what he gets - beside questions to avoid answers - is immature personal attacks. I realize the intellectually lazy fall back on your some kind of "-ist" (you don't support illegal immigration, you're a racist; you don't support voter fraud, you're a racist), but it is for 11th grade debaters.

Similarly, just becasue I do not want a guy showering with my teenage daughter does not mean I hate anyone. Similarly, the phony hysterics of people getting assulated for using the ladies room is more emotional stupidity promulgated by special interest groups. No one hates anyone because they do not think we need to legislate where someone drops a deuce - it is a scare tactic and fund raising device looking for a problem. But social media is fueled by fake news outrage, so we should not be surprised.

I too echo Brisket's point that getting your pecker lopped off and buying a push-up bra may not be the panacea for everyone. It is especially dangerous when whack jobs - worse than ant-vaxxers - start deciding that pre-pubescent children need sex changes. This is no different than gay conversation therapy if not worse becauase it is irreversiable. For those for whom it is the answer, more power to you. I could give too shits, but keep your fucking fascist brownshirts away from me - for fucks's sake just because you got your pecker chopped does not mean you have to go full pussy and lose your shit over a fucking pronoun. Learn from the lesbians and toughen up Sugar Tits.

At the end of the day, I respect ST's attempt to have a conversation ... we should all be leery of the fundamentalism taking root among so many on the Left ... that is exactly how socialism became national socialism. 

 

17 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

Of course you have me on ignore. Like many on the Left, the only position worth listening to is those that agree with you. Free discussion and open dialogue are your kryptonite because it violates your safe space. You know, like the one you created in 2015 when you felt so liberated and your ex-wife was just so supportive of your declaration and you were convinced that no one suspected that you were really a dude in drag? Or when several posters had to beg you to stop trying to oversell your womanhood with your newly found girly-but-not-gay posting style back on Shaggy? Or your sense of humor when a now famous internet meme of a “m’am” throwing a tantrum at GameStop gets posted because it violates your sense of self worth indirectly? Or the countless threads you used to start that you later had deleted because you didn’t get 100% reassurance that your expectations were based in reality? Truth be told, I do hope that you are happy. I also hope that you are receiving the help you apparently need, however you take that to mean.

But you do you, because you’re above it all and life is a bed of roses, no thanks to intolerant assholes like me that refuse to pretend for your benefit on a message board.

 

[Spankytoes 1748]

6 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

You don't learn mental illness nor do you get rid of it. It can only be treated to a reasonable degree. One of the many reasons I treat trans people with respect, save our resident narcissist, as I've proclaimed many times.

 

3 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

That has no bearing on treating a trans woman with respect or referring to her with her preferred pronoun. (As I have done with my postings on Tropheus, whom I am not a fan of, but believe deserves human dignity) 

Acknowledged and expounded on. She’s a cunt.

[Kyle 207]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

And we should be leery as shit of the intractability of conservatives.  That's how we got "God created the separate races, it's an abomination to let them mix, and I'm not ever changing my mind about that."  I tend to think that "if you're born with a dick, you're a man forevermore" is of that type of thinking. But your point is fair -- "open-mindedness" to the extreme is unhealthy for everyone involved.

Truly, what inflamed this issue is the Dan Patrick types using it for cheap political "see how much I love Jesus?  I'll fight against the abominations!" points.  Your kid isn't going to be molested because someone who was born with a dick drops a deuce in the women's room at Walmart.  They're going to be molested because a molester goes after her, and the sign on the bathroom door is going to provide no deterrent at all.  The whole issue was disingenuous -- Dan Patrick wasn't concerned about safety.  He wanted to demonize tha queerz for political points.  In other words, that fork in the road I mentioned -- choose whether or not to be kind?  Dan chose to be a dick.  And he made a vulnerable population his punching bag so he could brag to his base about what a badass fighter he was.  Fuck dickhead moves like that.

Folks are folks, leave 'em be and treat 'em nice.  Shit, I had a party last weekend.  A lobbyist couple who are friends were there, and they were amused by the diversity of the crowd -- we had hippies, a couple of same-sex couples, old folks, young folks, clergy, some well-known and highly visible conservatives, folks who ate my regular chili, folks who ate some vegan chili, the whole mix.  My friend commented specifically "man, this is a MIXED crowd."  I said "dude, it's Austin.  This is Congress avenue at any given moment."

Don't be afraid of people.  Don't be a dick.  It's almost always the right move.

In fairness, I think you're being disingenuous about the political stuff. I am not a fan of Patrick, but I think he is right here regardless of your perception of him or his motives. Your argument is akin to: "A killer is going to kill, so there is not reason to regulate guns." You do not believe that, but - with all due respect - you do like many and change your principle to fit inside the politics. In reality, there was no reason for an shitter regulation. Giving a pedophile unhindered access to women's rooms was not worth the risk because it was nothing but fake news hysteria designed to rile up the base and generate contributions and feed our outrage addiction.

I agree with the other stuff. Trannys have been using women's rooms for millennia and no one gave a shit (no pun intended). I don't care how you dress or who you fuck ... just don't start putting people in concentration camps who disagree with you. That's what scares me about today's Left.

[David Dennison 19444]

1 minute ago, Kyle said:

I agree with the other stuff. Trannys have been using women's rooms for millennia and no one gave a shit (no pun intended). I don't care how you dress or who you fuck ... just don't start putting people in concentration camps who disagree with you. That's what scares me about today's Left.

Oh, please. 

[Kyle 207]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, those of you who spend 90% of your posts talking about how mean everyone is to you are definitely Mr. Too Damn Rational.

What are you even talking about?

("I'm way too practical for you emotionalists.... YOU'RE NAZIS!")

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. You're probably more comfortable throwing shit with the rest of the chimps, so don't mind me. Spin the wheel and call me whatever you want ... I'm up for racist, sexist, homophobe, possibly anti-Muslim ... I can never tell on the gay threads if Islam is good or bad ... brown good, fag-hating bad ... bless your heart, has to drive your little Identity Politics regard brain fucking nuts.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Kyle

[Kyle 207]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Oh, please. 

At least this time you did not avoid a question with a question ... cinque.

[David Dennison 19444]

1 minute ago, Kyle said:

At least this time you did not avoid a question with a question ... cinque.

Keep worrying about those lefty concentration camps.

LOL

[TexArcher 38851]

"I don't agree that you're a real woman, but I can sympathize with how awful things must be for you."

Y'all's compassion is amazing and only 90% condescending.  You're an inspiration.

[Brisketexan 106694]

1 minute ago, Kyle said:

just don't start putting people in concentration camps who disagree with you. That's what scares me about today's Left.

Dude.  Dude.

NOT the scare words you meant to use, I'm sure.

I'm not afraid of being put in a disagreement camp because I disagree with some leftist view.  I AM legitimately afraid -- I mean, like it ACTUALLY HAPPENS -- of being taken into custody because I'm doing something mexican-ish:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/2-american-women-detained-after-speaking-spanish-montana-file-suit-n971716

When the people are whipped into a frenzy of fear -- fear of messicans, fear of all those trannies coming to rape your kids -- BAD shit follows.  Bad policies, bad legislation, bad actions -- just a lotta bad shit.

Walmart allowing trans people to use the bathroom of their identity truly does nothing to enhance any risk.  If you don't like the policy, don't shop there.  It didn't need any legislative solution.  AND, we don't need to fucking toss women in the back of a squad car because they spoke spanish.  But, you know, fear does some serious shit.  If that's really your concern these days -- bad shit happening to people at the hands of gov't actors because of a climate of fear -- then it's not without basis.  But you need to watch your right flank for that threat.

[Kyle 207]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  Dude.

NOT the scare words you meant to use, I'm sure.

I'm not afraid of being put in a disagreement camp because I disagree with some leftist view.  I AM legitimately afraid -- I mean, like it ACTUALLY HAPPENS -- of being taken into custody because I'm doing something mexican-ish:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/2-american-women-detained-after-speaking-spanish-montana-file-suit-n971716

When the people are whipped into a frenzy of fear -- fear of messicans, fear of all those trannies coming to rape your kids -- BAD shit follows.  Bad policies, bad legislation, bad actions -- just a lotta bad shit.

Walmart allowing trans people to use the bathroom of their identity truly does nothing to enhance any risk.  If you don't like the policy, don't shop there.  It didn't need any legislative solution.  AND, we don't need to fucking toss women in the back of a squad car because they spoke spanish.  But, you know, fear does some serious shit.  If that's really your concern these days -- bad shit happening to people at the hands of gov't actors because of a climate of fear -- then it's not without basis.  But you need to watch your right flank for that threat.

I totally agree with you ... except your initial hyperbole. Most of that social media outrage is fake news. From Matthew Shephard to the Houston child killer, most of the shit wingnuts get worked up about turns out to be fake. Much like trannys getting arrested and attacked for using the ladies room. Totally bullshit emotional hysterics.

I celebrate Wal-Mart. That just feed my point that there is not need for any legislation regulating the shitter.

I am aware of the right flank, but during the 20th Century every concentration camp was launch by a leftist. In all seriousness - because this is a real concern - no one takes the extreme right seriously ... the extreme left gets elected to Congress. I am not concerned about a few poor folks in West Virginia who harbor racist views and have zero power; what I am worried about is the racists and bigots on the left that CNN hires.

[Kyle 207]

13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Keep worrying about those lefty concentration camps.

LOL

Good to see you. Did you get a raise when you added another board to your portfolio? I'm glad your silly act has not changed. I probably could right half your posts before you hit Submit Reply they're so predictable.

[David Dennison 19444]

Just now, Kyle said:

Good to see you. Did you get a raise when you added another board to your portfolio? I'm glad your silly act has not changed. I probably could right half your posts before you hit Submit Reply they're so predictable.

Is this where you tell me I'm some dude that used to post a lot on Shaggy?

I think I lasted about a month there before I got the boot.

 

[wildcat09 29569]

21 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. You're probably more comfortable throwing shit with the rest of the chimps, so don't mind me. Spin the wheel and call me whatever you want ... I'm up for racist, sexist, homophobe, possibly anti-Muslim ... I can never tell on the gay threads if Islam is good or bad ... brown good, fag-hating bad ... bless your heart, has to drive your little Identity Politics regard brain fucking nuts.

Ah, yes, perfectly respectful and rational.

[Brisketexan 106694]

5 minutes ago, Kyle said:

but during the 20th Century every concentration camp was launch by a leftist.

Wow.  You're gonna go down the "Hitler was really a leftist" road, aren't you?  Just.....don't.  Seriously.  A position that utterly stupid is just a complete fucking waste of everyone's time.  Including yours.

Wait....are you going to go down the "The USA in WWII was a leftist country, that's why we put the Japanese in camps" road too?  Dude.  Just fucking STOP.

[bad_teammate 13485]

22 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Spin the wheel and call me whatever you want ... I'm up for racist, sexist, homophobe, possibly anti-Muslim ... I can never tell on the gay threads if Islam is good or bad ... brown good, fag-hating bad ... bless your heart, has to drive your little Identity Politics regard brain fucking nuts.

Who are you talking to? What are you talking about?

Do you have any kind of perspective on this topic other than feeling oppressed by phantoms calling you names?

[David Dennison 19444]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wow.  You're gonna go down the "Hitler was really a leftist" road, aren't you?  Just.....don't.  Seriously.  A position that utterly stupid is just a complete fucking waste of everyone's time.  Including yours.

Wait....are you going to go down the "The USA in WWII was a leftist country, that's why we put the Japanese in camps" road too?  Dude.  Just fucking STOP.

It's right there in the name, dumb dumb. Hitler was a lefty socialist. 

Moran.

[Zonahorn 8079]

7 hours ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Is that Aubrey Kate? If you don’t that think beauty is a woman you need to have your head examined. Look at her vids on transsexualangel.com. Some of the hottest porn I have ever watched.

On a serious note, the discrimination against the transgendered community, especially by those mean spirited bathroom bills sickened me. I made sure to vote for the Democratic opponents of Danny Goeb and Ken Paxton because of it.

Jesus dude, keep that shit to yourself.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

20 minutes ago, Calihorn said:

Jesus dude, keep that shit to yourself.

Keep your trans hatred to yourself asshole.

[Zonahorn 8079]

5 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Keep your trans hatred to yourself asshole.

No dipshit, I don't wanna know what you're in to.

[Kyle 207]

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wow.  You're gonna go down the "Hitler was really a leftist" road, aren't you?  Just.....don't.  Seriously.  A position that utterly stupid is just a complete fucking waste of everyone's time.  Including yours.

Wait....are you going to go down the "The USA in WWII was a leftist country, that's why we put the Japanese in camps" road too?  Dude.  Just fucking STOP.

Straw men are cute, but my position was pretty clear. Every 20th Centruy concentration camp was started by a Leftist. I realize I'm talking to someone who may pretend the Democratic Senate was not lead by a Klansman for generations, but who am I to call a racist a racist? It's cute you want to whitewash FDR's concentration camps, but fake news does fuel social media (and CNN).

Anyway, I did not mean to hijack the thread ... I'll let you chimps get back to throwing shit at Spanky and chasing windmills. I did not mean to still your play cinque ... feel free to pretend you one and scared me off with your amazing intellect and brilliant arguments.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

18 minutes ago, Calihorn said:

No dipshit, I don't wanna know what you're in to.

Go fuck yourself. 

[Dahobbs 18207]

10 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Straw men are cute, but my position was pretty clear. Every 20th Centruy concentration camp was started by a Leftist. I realize I'm talking to someone who may pretend the Democratic Senate was not lead by a Klansman for generations, but who am I to call a racist a racist? It's cute you want to whitewash FDR's concentration camps, but fake news does fuel social media (and CNN).

Anyway, I did not mean to hijack the thread ... I'll let you chimps get back to throwing shit at Spanky and chasing windmills. I did not mean to still your play cinque ... feel free to pretend you one and scared me off with your amazing intellect and brilliant arguments.

My father in law spouts this same nonsense. He sees some grand cross generational conspiracy by leftists everywhere in the world. Where do you pick up this stuff?

[DaysOff 8158]

Why do you people argue with Hugo, Dennison, and Pokeman (possibly all the same person)?

They're children. They've never touched a girl, held an adult job, paid taxes, owned a home, raised a child. They have no life experience outside what they've read on the internet. Pointless waste of site bandwidth.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

You’ve touched a girl? 

[wildcat09 29569]

24 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Straw men are cute, but my position was pretty clear. Every 20th Centruy concentration camp was started by a Leftist. I realize I'm talking to someone who may pretend the Democratic Senate was not lead by a Klansman for generations, but who am I to call a racist a racist? It's cute you want to whitewash FDR's concentration camps, but fake news does fuel social media (and CNN).

Anyway, I did not mean to hijack the thread ... I'll let you chimps get back to throwing shit at Spanky and chasing windmills. I did not mean to still your play cinque ... feel free to pretend you one and scared me off with your amazing intellect and brilliant arguments.

Ah yes, that well known leftist Adolph Hitler who...[checks notes] killed all of the communists.

[Zonahorn 8079]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Ah yes, that well known leftist Adolph Hitler who...[checks notes] killed all of the communists.

He was such a leftist he [checks notes] thought it was his destiny to save the Aryan race from Communists and Jews.

[David Dennison 19444]

50 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Straw men are cute, but my position was pretty clear. Every 20th Centruy concentration camp was started by a Leftist. I realize I'm talking to someone who may pretend the Democratic Senate was not lead by a Klansman for generations, but who am I to call a racist a racist? It's cute you want to whitewash FDR's concentration camps, but fake news does fuel social media (and CNN).

Anyway, I did not mean to hijack the thread ... I'll let you chimps get back to throwing shit at Spanky and chasing windmills. I did not mean to still your play cinque ... feel free to pretend you one and scared me off with your amazing intellect and brilliant arguments.

Because everyone knows Hitler was a leftist.

Good grief.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Is this where you tell me I'm some dude that used to post a lot on Shaggy?

I think I lasted about a month there before I got the boot.

 

Another reason why TOS was far superior to this one.

[bad_teammate 13485]

When Neimoller started with, "First they came for the communists" I guess he meant, "so they could join the Nazis" lol

[Yuk 1612]

If only we had modern day nazis to determine if they were left or right wing.  I wonder if they'd name their rally "Unite the Left" or "Unite the Right".

[Nivek 17361]

I am a cisgender male who identifies as a Male who likes chicks.

Am I allowed to poop in women's restrooms?

Why not? You shit all over threads already.