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Andrew Yang for prez...

SKJ

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

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I guess you'll just continue to speak on it, then... He speaks directly to several of your points.

I don't know why you'd choose not to watch because of the source, but the information is there.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

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6 minutes ago, SKJ said:

I guess you'll just continue to speak on it, then... He speaks directly to several of your points.

I don't know why you'd choose not to watch because of the source, but the information is there.

If the information was there, you'd be able to share it.

Please do so.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29561

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2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

$12k/year isn't enough for a person to live a productive and healthy life, especially if they have kids. You'll have kids starving and unable to get basic healthcare pretty much immediately. You'll have crime skyrocket. So yeah, fucking OF COURSE safety net welfare programs will come back.

I swear to god, Silicon Valley has the dumbest human beings alive. They are so up-their-asses about everything they have no clue how anything works or what consequences might follow or downstream effects or any historical grounding. All they have is gadgets. The fucking Juicero of economic justice solutions.

One of my favorite Silicon Valley Brain Genius ideas is Lyft accidentally creating a bus through INNOVATION and Bird scooters getting tossed into the ocean because they litter the sidewalks, beeping incessantly as they run out of charge.

Silicon Valley just re-discovering a bunch of shit we came up with hundreds of years ago is the natural end result of "EVERYONE SHOULD MAJOR IN STEM"-type education.

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rickyspub

rickyspub 801

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The thing I 'love' about Yang's UBI shit is that for all his dooming and glooming about our jobs being lost to automation, his solution is to give us $12K a year and act like he is giving us the world! So our government's response to business casting us aside from our jobs that pay us a median of $48K a year, is to replace that with $12K a year and no additional government assistance. Sounds like he selling us an awful dystopia either way.

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

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12 hours ago, rickyspub said:

The thing I 'love' about Yang's UBI shit is that for all his dooming and glooming about our jobs being lost to automation, his solution is to give us $12K a year and act like he is giving us the world! So our government's response to business casting us aside from our jobs that pay us a median of $48K a year, is to replace that with $12K a year and no additional government assistance. Sounds like he selling us an awful dystopia either way.

No, that's the first step in a policy group that tries to build what he calls a "trickle up" economy.

It's not supposed to replace work at all, which is why it's not more.

In his research, they landed on that figure for a variety of reasons.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21326

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2 minutes ago, SKJ said:

No, that's the first step in a policy group that tries to build what he calls a "trickle up" economy.

It's not supposed to replace work at all, which is why it's not more.

In his research, they landed on that figure for a variety of reasons.

Exactly.  Say what you will but trickle up works way better than trickle down.  Those at the top have everything then just invest and grow their money.  Those at the bottom will spend.  

His ideas are not as crazy as many want to make them out to be...

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rickyspub

rickyspub 801

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8 hours ago, SKJ said:

No, that's the first step in a policy group that tries to build what he calls a "trickle up" economy.

It's not supposed to replace work at all, which is why it's not more.

In his research, they landed on that figure for a variety of reasons.

That's poor recompense for a first step. How about instead making companies that replace workers with automation pay those replaced workers a full pension until Yang comes up with a 'trickle up' plan that doesn't start by pissing on those who had their jobs taken from them.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

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"trickle up" is a cute phrase, for sure, but what does it mean?

Human-Centered Capitalism

The central tenets of Human Capitalism are:

1. Humans are more important than money
2. The unit of a Human Capitalism economy is each person, not each dollar
3. Markets exist to serve our common goals and values

#1 and #2 don't really mean anything, but #3 is PROFOUNDLY anti-capitalist if meant seriously. Which, of course, it isn't.

Capitalism has to be made to serve human ends and goals, rather than have our humanity subverted to serve the Marketplace. We shape the system. We own it, not the other way around.

How?

"We own it"

He is literally talking about the necessity of the people to own the means of production.

Which is awesome, of course, but I don't believe it for a second and I don't see anything in his HUGE list of policies that points towards it.

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

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Well, trickle up is easily identified by putting capital in the hands of those who spend it. I can't remember what his exact figure is, but it's a solid majority of Americans that can't afford an unexpected $500.00 bill. Putting a couple trillion dollars in the hands of the lower and middle class, money that would circulate around 7 times before leaving that community, would in effect "trickle up."

#2 is a direct statement that he makes quite a bit. Yang states quite often that GDP is a horrible measurement of how our economy is actually doing. We need to focus our reporting on the economy to numbers that reflect how we're actually b doing. Health and wellness, environment, etc... 

Of course, the first statement is just a clear-cut fact.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

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16 hours ago, SKJ said:

Well, trickle up is easily identified by putting capital in the hands of those who spend it. I can't remember what his exact figure is, but it's a solid majority of Americans that can't afford an unexpected $500.00 bill. Putting a couple trillion dollars in the hands of the lower and middle class, money that would circulate around 7 times before leaving that community, would in effect "trickle up."

But Yang's "U"BI doesn't put that money into the hands of the poor, because the poor receive government welfare services. (The rich do, too, but Mr. Yang isn't concerned about that. It is only the poor who need to be shamed and disciplined.)

When fighting poverty with cash payments, what we need to do is - *shuffles through notes* - not give those cash payments to the poor.

Here's a question for you:
How do the people who receive government welfare benefits qualify for them?

Quote

#2 is a direct statement that he makes quite a bit. Yang states quite often that GDP is a horrible measurement of how our economy is actually doing. We need to focus our reporting on the economy to numbers that reflect how we're actually b doing. Health and wellness, environment, etc... 

Great... and... what? What actually follows from this?

 

I refuse to watch Dave Rubin. There was whining above about it, but I'll post this clip and anyone who watches it should immediately see why:

1) He's profoundly stupid
2) He's a clearinghouse for libertarianism
3) My god, he's so stupid

Confirmation again that Yang's "U"BI scheme is just the libertarian kill-the-government scheme that's existed for decades. The goal is to destroy the welfare state, yes? That's what we're eager to see happen with this "U"BI? We're accepting the Republican war-on-welfare talking points and dressing it up in some Silicon Valley TED Talk bullshit? We must be, because there is no fucking reason to exclude welfare recipients from Yang's "U"BI.

 

 

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

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Let's see what follows from anything. Fucking Bernie is going to give us all fake jobs where we're all the same thing 

We'll all get free college to waste since we'll have doctorates to count cars that drive by.

Universal is universal. If someone is making 5 Grand a month, there's been reason for them to opt in.

The problem with Bernie is that his solutions are as old and tired as he is. Fucking dinosaurs trying to solve tech problems. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

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1 hour ago, SKJ said:

Fucking Bernie is going to give us all fake jobs where we're all the same thing 

lol what?

Quote

We'll all get free college to waste since we'll have doctorates to count cars that drive by.

You're right only the children of the rich should get to go to college. Good point.

YangGang isn't just baby fascists at all. mmmhmmmmmmm

Quote

The problem with Bernie is that his solutions are as old and tired as he is. Fucking dinosaurs trying to solve tech problems. 

A means-tested UBI is "tech"?

It's new?

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

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Bernie's economic plans aren't going to help. Full stop.

Jobs guarantees? This is just fucking silly. We're going to be giving government jobs out to everyone which seems nice, but what are we all going to be doing when our jobs are automated away? I guess I need to learn construction? We can guarantee basically no-show jobs, which just turns out to be "u" bi. Then the working poor will be in the same boat as before.

Government skills restraining programs have a terrible success rate. 0-15%

I'm all for free college, but why the fuck would we be pushing college so hard? A shitload of the jobs college degrees are now in are going to be getting automated away. VoTech programs are probably a better push, since I hear robot maintenance and repair is going to be big soon.

The welfare state needs to be blown up. It's a fucking nightmare. What is your experience with it? Have you ever had to use it? I have. 

The safety net is filled with gigantic holes. It needs to be fixed in a major fucking way or it needs to be destroyed and rebuilt. I'm betting you've never been put in a situation that you had to use it because it's completely fucked.

A means tested universal basic income isn't universal.

All these government programs force us into becoming beggars. It's fucking demeaning. If you've never had to do it, I suggest you don't. They're stigmatized to a point that next time, if some tragedy strikes me and my family I would rather just die than try to use them.

They also fucking basically try to trap you into them, into a life of them, then they just trample you with them. Fucking dehumanizing.

Thinking about politics makes me hate everything. It's so beyond fucked up that I can't even stand it. The system is fucked beyond repair, and I have a great idea... Let's make that same fucked up system bigger, and let's make more people into wards of the state! 

I'm more for just eating the rich than I am for voting, especially for any candidate that can't seem to understand that we need to either change the course radically (and I'm not talking about dinosaur methods) or we're going to see some real, good old fashioned violence in the coming years.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

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1 hour ago, SKJ said:

Bernie's economic plans aren't going to help. Full stop.Jobs guarantees? This is just fucking silly. We're going to be giving government jobs out to everyone which seems nice, but what are we all going to be doing when our jobs are automated away? 

There are quite a few ways of handling this.

1) Don't let corporations automate jobs away without paying through the nose.
2) Pay people to do the things that need to be done that will never be economically profitable (the care and education of the young and old, cleaning up the environment, etc...).

And $12k/year isn't an answer to the problem, either. Be even slightly honest.

Quote

The safety net is filled with gigantic holes. It needs to be fixed in a major fucking way or it needs to be destroyed and rebuilt.

I'm missing the "rebuilt" part of Yang's plan.

Quote

All these government programs force us into becoming beggars.

Before social welfare programs, there were no beggars.

Little known fact!

Quote

It's fucking demeaning. If you've never had to do it, I suggest you don't. They're stigmatized to a point that next time, if some tragedy strikes me and my family I would rather just die than try to use them.

Yes, poverty is terrible and dehumanizing. We should directly address it.

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

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8 hours ago, Continental Op said:

I'll take money from other taxpayers but I'm not going to fill out any paperwork because that's dehumanizing! 

It's not paperwork. I'm guessing you've never had to go through it.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

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I agree 100% with SKJ regarding the dehumanizing aspect of poverty and our current welfare state. Our current system is designed to shame and scold and it works. People who need help are vulnerable and our cruel politics exacerbate that suffering (a suffering largely created by our unequal economy).

This is why I support robust and universal programs.

Everyone gets the UBI, no one has to justify or defend or do an interview. (I'm a bigger fan of the American Solidarity Fund, though)

Everyone gets public higher ed, no one has to submit a tax return, job application proof, or a utility bill.

Everyone gets healthcare, etc...

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106639

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Apropos of nothing but the threat title....

Do y'all think that when Yang was about the close the deal with a ladyfriend, he ever busted out with "so, I presume you're here for the Yangbang?"  Because...ummm...I totally would have.  Because I have poor impulse control.

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

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8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Apropos of nothing but the threat title....

Do y'all think that when Yang was about the close the deal with a ladyfriend, he ever busted out with "so, I presume you're here for the Yangbang?"  Because...ummm...I totally would have.  Because I have poor impulse control.

I bet after Yang gang was brought up he's called it Yang bang ever since

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

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8 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Here's Yang's buddy, Dave Rubin, defending our concentration camps by promoting a white supremacist!

BOTH SIDES! OPEN MIND!

 

Yeah, clearly he's Yang's buddy.

Now so the same bullshit exercise with Bernie.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

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I just looked up some lyrics from this HIP HOP HOODLUM and I am both shocked AND aghast

'Bout to turn this mothafucka up like Riker's Island, bruh
Where my thuggers and my crippers and my blooders and my brothers?
When you niggas gon' unite and kill the police mothafuckas?
Or take over a jail, give them COs hell
The burnin' of the sulfur, goddamn I love the smell
Now get to pillow torchin', where the fuck the warden?
And when you find him, we don't kill him, we just waterboard him
We killin' them for freedom 'cause they tortured us for boredom
And even if some good ones die, fuck it, the Lord'll sort 'em
 

I am right now creating a bonfire of all my Bernie merchandise to burn in my backyard unless Bernie personally calls me within the next 48 hours to denounce this THUG

This aggression will not stand

#BlueLivesMatter

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

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8 minutes ago, immamac said:

His mic was literally cut off.

Was it?

Here's the "evidence" I saw.

You can clearly hear him say "ahem - excuse me". He just limply raises his hand and gives up immediately. You don't get in by saying "excuse me" and raising your hand like a kid in class, you bully your way into it and force attention on you. Is there any evidence of him talking into the microphone where we can't clearly hear him.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30505

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This is my first visit to this thread. I know nothing of Yang. I have no opinion of Yang.

First, lot's of policy talk. Yay!

Second, is Yang such a threat to anybody that there would be a conspiracy to silence him? Why him?

If his mike were muted, it's bound to have been a technical error.

Last, I expected that this guy was dropping out of the race. He might be a great candidate. I'll likely never know. The "debate" format is not a very good one for judging a president, however it was a chance to put your face forward. He failed at that.

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

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On 7/1/2019 at 8:03 PM, bad_teammate said:

He's not a great candidate. He's a meme for idiots on a rocket-sled path to alt-right grifting.

 

I'm sure this post means something.

Just can't figure out what it is.

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Todd Gack

Todd Gack 448

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This is a really good interview.  Yang is forced to go more in-depth on his UBI plan, stutters thought a couple answers, but he concedes that some tweaking will be necessary for it to work for (almost) all citizens.  Good back and forth.

 

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2201

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On 6/29/2019 at 5:54 AM, bad_teammate said:

Was it?

Here's the "evidence" I saw.

You can clearly hear him say "ahem - excuse me". He just limply raises his hand and gives up immediately. You don't get in by saying "excuse me" and raising your hand like a kid in class, you bully your way into it and force attention on you. Is there any evidence of him talking into the microphone where we can't clearly hear him.

You're not wrong

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13709

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I recommend listening to this updated interview with Yang from Freakonomics:  http://freakonomics.com/podcast/andrew-yang-update/  The first half is an interview from early 2019 and then they switch to a more recent interview that includes his thoughts on how his campaign and his ideas have shifted from being on the campaign trail.

I thought Yang had a spot-on criticism of normal Democratic ideology on how many Democrats trust programs and organizations more than individuals.  Instead of giving money directly to the poor, many Dems want to fund programs that aim to help the poor. Or how some want to make college free as the solution to student debt.

 

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

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The answer isn't blowing up entire systems that have steadily become corrupted over decades of use. The answer is tweaking and changing things to best find the middle ground between too conservative and too liberal. The main problem we have right now is no one in this country's politics are actually conservative anymore. They all want to waste tons of money just republicans want to do it by giving massive amounts of money to the top 1% (who pay them off to do so) while democrats want to radically blow up established systems to provide services for free. 

Education doesn't need to be free. It just needs to be properly regulated and actually merit based where costs don't sky rocket past the rate of economic growth and some bozo dipshit kid of a rich person doesn't get to buy their way in ahead of a brilliant mind from the ghetto. 

Health care doesn't need to be free. It just needs to be properly balanced in cost vs benefit. Right now it's so out of whack it's just medical personnel scamming the shit out of insurance companies who try those best to not pay out benefits to a general public trying to scam the shit out of the government to pay the medical personnel. Affordable Care Act was a noble start to adjusting the system but it was never meant to be an end all be all. Something this ridiculously complicated is impossible to fix in one try. It will take decades and decades of trial and error to keep adjusting to real world issues. The same would be true for education costs, employment, etc. 

The problem with that is we have no politicians willing to do that. All they care about is getting re-elected and maintaining or acquiring party power not actually governing with any semblance of intelligence. That's ground zero for problems that need to be solved before anything else in this country can work to get any better, yet you never hear any politicians talk about completely reforming their own system. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46063

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13 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

The problem with that is we have no politicians willing to do that. All they care about is getting re-elected and maintaining or acquiring party power not actually governing with any semblance of intelligence. That's ground zero for problems that need to be solved before anything else in this country can work to get any better, yet you never hear any politicians talk about completely reforming their own system. 

Ahem.

1180318941.jpg.0.jpg

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

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Wow, so much shit has transpired in just a year I completely forgot about the HR1 bill. Warren is definitely onto the right path there but need enough others to come along to actually get something done. Not enough people, especially supposedly conservative republicans, are supporting legislation to reform political processes. 

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