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Martina Navratilova is a Hateful Bigot

Kyle

By Kyle
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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29902

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Posted
1 hour ago, Kyle said:

I feel like I should send you a rent check for all the space I'm occupying in your head.

Yes, send me checks related to all of your vain fantasies.

I'm physically afraid of you. Your posts make me feel stupid. You're always right. Nobody can see through your clever stratagems such as this thread. I hate you because I want to be you.

And the best one: I wish I could come up with a snappy riposte about occupying space in somebody's head.

You're such a genius. Just post your name, address and Social Security Number, and I will send you the invoice. I bet you're rich, so the rent will be inflated, you handsome devil.

 

 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17524

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4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

 


Exactly what I said. If we are parsing “sex” and “gender” to conform to social constructs instead of what they’ve meant throughout all of human history, then an effeminate gay guy is fucked.

 

What are you talking about? How are they fucked by recognizing gender and sex are separate things (and have always been separate things in reality if not lexicon)? How did you reach the conclusion that they wouldn't be allowed to participate in sports? That is not a logical implication of anything stated in this thread.  

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1739

Posted
Posted
What are you talking about? How are they fucked by recognizing gender and sex are separate things (and have always been separate things in reality if not lexicon)? How did you reach the conclusion that they wouldn't be allowed to participate in sports? That is not a logical implication of anything stated in this thread.  


You know exactly what I’m talking about. “Gender” is a definition of convenience, useable and changeable, depending on your argument. I’m responding to the specific post I referenced.

There’s a trans thread in CR. Not going to derail this one arguing about it.
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17524

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

 


You know exactly what I’m talking about. “Gender” is a definition of convenience, useable and changeable, depending on your argument. I’m responding to the specific post I referenced.

There’s a trans thread in CR. Not going to derail this one arguing about it.

 

What does that have to do with your conclusion that "effeminate gay guy is fucked" or that gay guys wouldn't be allowed to participate in sports? I honestly don't understand the reasoning and I'm asking you to explain to me. Under the rubric I've discussed gay males would be allowed to participate in male sports, same as they do today. I'm not seeing how recognizing distinctions between gender and sex affect that outcome in anyway. 

Also, kinda chickenshit to make an argument in this thread and then declare you can't/won't discuss it here. You brought it up, not me.  

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1739

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What does that have to do with your conclusion that "effeminate gay guy is fucked" or that gay guys wouldn't be allowed to participate in sports? I honestly don't understand the reasoning and I'm asking you to explain to me. Under the rubric I've discussed gay males would be allowed to participate in male sports, same as they do today. I'm not seeing how recognizing distinctions between gender and sex affect that outcome in anyway. 

Also, kinda chickenshit to make an argument in this thread and then declare you can't/won't discuss it here. You brought it up, not me.  

OK

The post I responded to said that maybe participation in sports should be based on sex instead of gender. Depending on what side of the fence you reside on, these terms are either intertwined or are two distinct ideas. The effinimite gay guy was a tongue and cheek reference to the argument that a trans woman with a dick is a woman because she self identifies as such rather than a man with effeminate characteristics. (Nancy boy, light in the loafers, cross-dresser, a “pussy”, etc.) Because she identifies as a woman, the rest of society is supposed to follow suit and play along even though she is a man in a dress that may or may not be taking hormonal treatment to further their womanly appearance. She’s not simply an “effeminate man” or “Queer” as these designations are reserved for another subcategory on the scale.

Of course sex should determine athletic participation. If we want to get technical, amend that to biological sex. Using “Boys league/Girls league” implies the this rather than the social construct gender is being used as. WNBA should techically be FNBA (Female) to conform to the distinctions being made and the terms “boy’s sizes/girl’s sizes” should be abolished as they may misidentify current social constructs.

I was commenting on the parsing of terms being dumb.

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Kyle

Kyle 207

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2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Yes, send me checks related to all of your vain fantasies.

I'm physically afraid of you. Your posts make me feel stupid. You're always right. Nobody can see through your clever stratagems such as this thread. I hate you because I want to be you.

And the best one: I wish I could come up with a snappy riposte about occupying space in somebody's head.

You're such a genius. Just post your name, address and Social Security Number, and I will send you the invoice. I bet you're rich, so the rent will be inflated, you handsome devil.

It's weird how you guys obsess over Internet posters. I've just never really mustered so much vitriol for someone whose crime was disagreeing with me. Yeah it's funny when you guys go ad hom, but it speaks more to your ability to articulate than the target. I'll gladly buy you beer or whiskey in the fall. Maybe I should, but I just have a hard time time this shit personally.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17524

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

OK

The post I responded to said that maybe participation in sports should be based on sex instead of gender. Depending on what side of the fence you reside on, these terms are either intertwined or are two distinct ideas. The effinimite gay guy was a tongue and cheek reference to the argument that a trans woman with a dick is a woman because she self identifies as such rather than a man with effeminate characteristics. (Nancy boy, light in the loafers, cross-dresser, a “pussy”, etc.) Because she identifies as a woman, the rest of society is supposed to follow suit and play along even though she is a man in a dress that may or may not be taking hormonal treatment to further their womanly appearance. She’s not simply an “effeminate man” or “Queer” as these designations are reserved for another subcategory on the scale.

Of course sex should determine athletic participation. If we want to get technical, amend that to biological sex. Using “Boys league/Girls league” implies the this rather than the social construct gender is being used as. WNBA should techically be FNBA (Female) to conform to the distinctions being made and the terms “boy’s sizes/girl’s sizes” should be abolished as they may misidentify current social constructs.

I was commenting on the parsing of terms being dumb.

Terms are parsed all the time so that we can address new or different concepts. Further, words can have different meanings in different contexts. In many contexts gender terms like "man" and "woman" are really referring to sex. We often make up new words or borrow from existing words when discussing new ideas. Neither way is wrong, it really just depends on how the ideas evolve. For instance, a modern "computer" is very different from the original etymology of the word, which literally just referenced a person who made calculations. The word "robot" was actually originally a borrowing of the Czech word for "forced worker," (made famous by Capek's Rossom's Universal Robots) and the Czech word itself is a borrowing of the Russian word for "work."  That the words have taken on new meaning now doesn't mean that prior usage was wrong or even incorrect in today's parlance. It just means words can gain new and different meanings depending on context. 

And, again, you said actually leads to the logical conclusion that the effeminate gay guy (whether male or female) can't play sports.    

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29902

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kyle said:

It's weird how you guys obsess over Internet posters. I've just never really mustered so much vitriol for someone whose crime was disagreeing with me. Yeah it's funny when you guys go ad hom, but it speaks more to your ability to articulate than the target. I'll gladly buy you beer or whiskey in the fall. Maybe I should, but I just have a hard time time this shit personally.

You guys? I'm a plural, now?

You are determined to believe you are the object of obsession. I addressed your original post's content and form. I responded to you boasting that you're in my head with sarcasm.

Now my imagined obsession is a hateful one in your eyes. You're the star of quite a little movie going on in your own head.

I'll pass on the drink, but thanks.

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Kyle

Kyle 207

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On 2/20/2019 at 4:43 PM, RomaVicta said:

You guys? I'm a plural, now?

You are determined to believe you are the object of obsession. I addressed your original post's content and form. I responded to you boasting that you're in my head with sarcasm.

Now my imagined obsession is a hateful one in your eyes. You're the star of quite a little movie going on in your own head.

I'll pass on the drink, but thanks.

Chuckle.

In other news, some savvy coach needs to start a recruiting pipeline like many of the parochial schools do with team sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/connecticut-runners-part-of-debate-over-transgender-athletes/2019/02/24/fa2c6c86-384a-11e9-b10b-f05a22e75865_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.96323dfe5cba

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kyle said:

Chuckle.

In other news, some savvy coach needs to start a recruiting pipeline like many of the parochial schools do with team sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/connecticut-runners-part-of-debate-over-transgender-athletes/2019/02/24/fa2c6c86-384a-11e9-b10b-f05a22e75865_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.96323dfe5cba

 

Edited by zork
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Sandman

Sandman 3403

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Posted

CSB/ I was a less than mediocre swimmer in high school. At one meet, we had more boys than the other school and thus there weren't enough lanes in their tiny pool. So I had to go in a weird 2nd heat of the event (100 back) by myself. To finish off the rest of the lanes, they had some girls do their 100 back as well. I fucking crushed those chicks and like I said, I wasn't good at all. It was pretty funny, and I got to look at chicks in swimsuits all day, so it was a win for me /CSB

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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9046

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Females (sex, in the old-fashioned sense) almost always come out on the short end in this debate. If a males transitions, she (after transitioning) can dominate females even if she was mediocre as a male. A female-to-male trans athlete won’t stand a chance competing against males. Females with naturally high testosterone levels won’t fare much better if they are forced to compete with males. Castor Semenya, for example, would not crack the top 1,000 internationally in boys high school age 800m, even as at her peak level in her 20s.

 

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9826

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Kyle said:

Chuckle.

In other news, some savvy coach needs to start a recruiting pipeline like many of the parochial schools do with team sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/connecticut-runners-part-of-debate-over-transgender-athletes/2019/02/24/fa2c6c86-384a-11e9-b10b-f05a22e75865_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.96323dfe5cba

Had no idea so many world class felmale athletes were simply hidden in plain sight. 

.2 seconds to the nearest biological female. 

Breaking state records!

Edited by ChickenSandwich
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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9826

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For high school sports

Men’s division should be called “open”. No homrmone treatments, supplements or testosterone treatments of any kind.  All are welcome to compete  

Then the standard biological female group (or whatever non offensive name you want to call it). This shouldn’t be difficult. 

After 18 let the professional sports set their standards based on performance (not feelings) fairness. 

Edited by ChickenSandwich
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pch

pch 1259

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I believe Martina has a valid argument.

CSB-I was working for my brother in law (agent for Allied van lines) back in the early 90's when Martina and Judy Nelson, her then partner, decided to move from their Indian Creek condo to Aspen.  Watching the parade of celebrities (Nancy Lieberman, Van Cliburn, etc.) who were present from day to day during that move was amazing.  Seeing the Grand Slam trophies packed and put on the moving van was likewise amazing.  Martina was very generous to everyone who worked on that five day pack and move, tipping between $50-$100 DAILY. 

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

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Caster Semenya just an athletic arbitration case.

 

The highest court in sports has ruled that the regulations adopted by track and field's international governing body regarding women with high levels of testosterone are discriminatory but necessary to ensure fair competition in female athletics.

Bottom line seems to be that she was born more a boy than a girl. 

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

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1 hour ago, XYZ said:

Instead of “men” and “women” sports they could make it “high testosterone” and “low testosterone”.

Maybe, except that there's a good argument that Semenya is a man. Undescended testicles and all that. The doctor at the time of delivery (from what I've read) told the family that the child was more boy that girl (hermaphrodite; now called intersex) but for some reason the family with the female route. 

Strange case, that's for sure.

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Lhorn

Lhorn 4909

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How about xx and xy?  The vast majority of us fall under those two umbrellas (except for sex chromosome aberration like Kleinfelters etc).  If gender is fluid and an artificial construct why are we using it as one of the cornerstones of these athletic competitions? 

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Lhorn

Lhorn 4909

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Seriously, the traditional “boys” and “girls” team are gender based and no longer OK right?  We should just call them “male” and “female”.  These are sex based (not gender) which is based on your chromosomes. Everyone should be fine with that unless of course the goal is to have a transgender man destroying 9 power lifting records at a single meet. 

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bernorange

bernorange 8359

Posted
Posted

This seems like an appropriate thread for this news:

Quote

Transgender powerlifter Mary Gregory, who claims to have broken four women’s world records in competition last month, has been stripped of her trophies and described as “actually a male.”

Gregory says she broke the squat, bench press, deadlift and total records for her weight class and gender at the 100% Raw Powerlifting Federation competition.


Following the event, Gregory posted on Instagram on April 27, thanking the federation for making her feel welcome as a transgender athlete and treating her as “just another female lifter.”

However, in a statement released on May 1, 100% Raw Powerlifting Federation president Paul Bossi said the group has stripped Gregory of her wins because he believes she is male.

“It was revealed that this female lifter was actually a male in the process of becoming a Transgender female,” Bossi said in the statement.

“Our rules, and the basis of separating genders for competition, are based on physiological classification rather than identification.

“On the basis of all information presented to the Board of Directors for this particular case, the conclusion made, is that the correct physiological classification is male.”

“Since the lifter’s gender classification for the purpose of our rules is not consistent with female, no female records will be broken by these lifts,” Bossi concluded.

Gregory told Outsports that the federation discovered she was assigned male at birth by insisting that an official supervise her taking a urine test.

She said: “I did my business while somebody watched me sitting on the toilet. And so that’s where that statement comes from, because I’m sure she told them, ‘Hey! This girl’s got a penis!’”
...

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/05/08/powerlifter-mary-gregory-world-records-disqualified-trans/

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32848

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bernorange said:

This seems like an appropriate thread for this news:

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/05/08/powerlifter-mary-gregory-world-records-disqualified-trans/

Quote

“Our rules, and the basis of separating genders for competition, are based on physiological classification rather than identification.

Oh for fuck's sake. You are separating SEXES, not GENDERS. That's the entire point and yet people in this country are so fucking squeamish about saying the word SEX that they can't get it right. Sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex.

Edited by Huckleberry
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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9826

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Posted

A hurdler who competed as a man last year won an NCAA championship in women’s hurdles over the weekend.

CeCe Telfer of Franklin Pierce University easily won the 400-meter hurdles at the NCAA Division II outdoor track-and-field championships Saturday, winning the final race by more than a second. Telfer also finished fifth in the 100-meter hurdles, earning All-America honors.

In an analysis of Telfer’s performance in three conference-winning races earlier this season at the Northeast 10 conference championship, Turtleboy Sports reported that the three times — in the 60-meter dash, the 60-meter hurdles and the 200-meter dash — did not measure up to the male finalists, but won women’s races.

Most of the gaps were not small for races this short — Telfer would’ve trailed the last-placed male finalists by more than a half-second in the 60-meter dash and almost 1.7 seconds in the 200, but won the woman’s 60-meter hurdles by a half-second.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/3/cece-telfer-franklin-pierce-transgender-hurdler-wi/

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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Posted
On 5/14/2019 at 1:49 PM, Huckleberry said:

Oh for fuck's sake. You are separating SEXES, not GENDERS. That's the entire point and yet people in this country are so fucking squeamish about saying the word SEX that they can't get it right. Sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex.

You yelling it out over and over ain't gonna get you any closer to having any.

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futureman

futureman 22444

Posted
Posted
On 5/2/2019 at 11:15 AM, XYZ said:

Instead of “men” and “women” sports they could make it “high testosterone” and “low testosterone”.

 

On 5/2/2019 at 5:54 PM, Lhorn said:

How about xx and xy?  The vast majority of us fall under those two umbrellas (except for sex chromosome aberration like Kleinfelters etc).  If gender is fluid and an artificial construct why are we using it as one of the cornerstones of these athletic competitions? 

 

On 5/3/2019 at 1:27 PM, Lhorn said:

Seriously, the traditional “boys” and “girls” team are gender based and no longer OK right?  We should just call them “male” and “female”.  These are sex based (not gender) which is based on your chromosomes. Everyone should be fine with that unless of course the goal is to have a transgender man destroying 9 power lifting records at a single meet. 

the only way to go is to abolish any kind of division between “sex” or “gender” as we are all human beings and that’s really all that matters.  then we can stop flushing hundreds of millions down the drain on women’s college sports and the wnba, as anyone with half a brain knows that anyone born without a dick couldn’t compete with the dicks in any kind of physical competition because they are lesser and should stay in the goddamn kitchen. 

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