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Skilling is out

tbone_

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, woohorn said:

About that...

"He was sentenced to 24 years in prison ...


Six years ago, Skilling's sentence was reduced to 14 years by U.S. District Judge Sim Lake."

Sim Lake reduced his sentence due to a plea deal between the government and Skilling.

I have no idea about his case.  But I clerked in the SD of Texas in the aftermath of Enron.  And I saw some prosecutions against energy company executives and mid level employees that just were sickening abuse's of power.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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11 minutes ago, DaggerHorns said:

All of the people that had to restart their retirement plan disagree with you.

9 hours ago, RPM said:

My first thought. He wiped out too many retirement accounts not to have someone that wants to see his brakes fail.

 

If someone had their retirement wiped out by Enron that means they were stupid and greedy.

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MAROON

MAROON 445

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Sim Lake reduced his sentence due to a plea deal between the government and Skilling.

I have no idea about his case.  But I clerked in the SD of Texas in the aftermath of Enron.  And I saw some prosecutions against energy company executives and mid level employees that just were sickening abuse's of power.

Yep _ i know one of those guys.  He didn't cave and take a plea - fought the government and won.  Cost him a bunch of money

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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15 minutes ago, MAROON said:

Yep _ i know one of those guys.  He didn't cave and take a plea - fought the government and won.  Cost him a bunch of money

Was he one of the Duke Energy guys?  Because if so, that's one of the ones I am thinking of.  I sat through that trial and was pissed at the government.  They were being prosecuted under a statute that was put on the books in the 1920s and had never once been used in a criminal prosecution.  It was a disgusting abuse of power.  Their lawyers were absolutely phenomenal.  If I ever had my ass in a sling in a complicated white collar case, that's who I would use (Paul Nugent).

Saw plenty of other abuses of power against poor criminals too that could not afford a Paul Nugent.  

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31514

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Sim Lake reduced his sentence due to a plea deal between the government and Skilling.

I have no idea about his case.  But I clerked in the SD of Texas in the aftermath of Enron.  And I saw some prosecutions against energy company executives and mid level employees that just were sickening abuse's of power.

It was because his "honest services" fraud convictions kept getting overturned, along with a "financial institution" sentencing enhancement.  It also freed a bunch of restitution money for distribution.

In the realm of white collar crime, he got a pretty substantial sentence.

Interesting to contrast the zeal with which the SD Tex went after him while SD NY sat on it's hands from 2008-2014.

 

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5297

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This thread delivering the kind of hot takes Shaggy is famous for.

Energy traders and execs that made millions building companies into giant houses of cards held together by accounting tricks =  good dudes persecuted by the feds.

Their employees and investors who lost everything = greedy idiots.

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phdhorn

phdhorn 6224

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

This thread delivering the kind of hot takes Shaggy is famous for.

Energy traders and execs that made millions building companies into giant houses of cards held together by accounting tricks =  good dudes persecuted by the feds.

Their employees and investors who lost everything = greedy idiots.

hqdefault.jpg

Because it is both (er, both are stupid/shitbag/greedy).

Skilling/Fastow et. al are shitbags and I hope they get assAIDS and die a painful death.  But yeah, I remember and even knew some shitbags that had all their money in Enron and were crowing like helicopter parents about it.  They were too fucking blind/stupid and greedy to see why that was the most idiotic thing since unsliced bread).

Edited by phdhorn
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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5571

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

If someone had their retirement wiped out by Enron that means they were stupid and greedy.

Or maybe they were locked out of their accounts because of a blackout when the 401k conversion occurred when the nuclear meltdown happened.

I knew some mid-level people at Enron, and the company match was in stock so they had over 80% of their 401k value tied up and couldn't liquidate. But go ahead and generalize.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

This thread delivering the kind of hot takes Shaggy is famous for.

Energy traders and execs that made millions building companies into giant houses of cards held together by accounting tricks =  good dudes persecuted by the feds.

Their employees and investors who lost everything = greedy idiots.

No one said Skilling or Fastow were persecuted by the feds.  They got what they deserved and perhaps deserved more.  But the government was overzealous against other energy execs and mid level employees.  I personally saw them fuck people over.  Including a woman who never went to college and worked her way up from secretary to being a trader at Dynegy.  

And yes, if you had all of your retirement in one stock -- especially one as volatile as Enron -- you are fucking stupid and greedy.  There is zero debate on that.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
Just now, Wally Fairway said:

Or maybe they were locked out of their accounts because of a blackout when the 401k conversion occurred when the nuclear meltdown happened.

I knew some mid-level people at Enron, and the company match was in stock so they had over 80% of their 401k value tied up and couldn't liquidate. But go ahead and generalize. 

They should have never had that much of their retirement in one stock.  Period.  Are you some financial infant? 

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17729

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"I know mid level people with no college degrees who were unfairly prosecuted! Peoples lives were ruined!"

/Secretary with no college degree at Enron loses her life savings 

"Should have learned to properly invest you stupid fucking peasant" 

Never change you crazy old asshole. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Scorpio said:

"I know mid level people with no college degrees who were unfairly prosecuted! Peoples lives were ruined!"

/Secretary with no college degree at Enron loses her life savings 

"Should have learned to properly invest you stupid fucking peasant" 

Never change you crazy old asshole. 

It does take years of financial training to know not to invest all of your retirement savings in one stock.  A stock that was doubling every ten months.  

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31514

Posted
Posted (edited)

Here is some clarity on the Enron 401k issue. https://reason.com/archives/2001/12/27/enrons-401k-calamity.

Employee contributions were matched with Enron stock that couldn't be sold until age 50.  That's shitty, but it was shitty long before Enron got shitty.

So, a bit more than half of the contributions to an employee's 401k were not stuck with Enron stock, so an employee really should not have lost the whole thing based on Enron's demise.

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5571

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7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

They should have never had that much of their retirement in one stock.  Period.  Are you some financial infant? 

You realize that at the time in many 401k's you didn't have the ability to move company match from stock....those rules have since changed. But go ahead and paint with that broad brush.
People like the Portland Utility that Updawg mentioned.

I had worked at a company in the late 80's into the early 90's and 100% of the match was in Company stock, as a matter of fact the did 150% match if you put your money into company stock. I didn't do it because of the inherent risk, but many were enticed by the extra 50%; you could move your investment in company stock annually (if I recall correctly).

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17729

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Also I forgive and love every single person who gets out of prison because they have served their time and are white and just stole some money and I have plenty of money so really they have repaid their debt to society. I'd buy them a beer and dinner and let them fuck my wife if I run into them on the street. 

Why just the other day I ran into Brock Turner (the Stanford swimmer rapist) and I shook his hand and told him how proud I was of him and that he had repaid his debt to society by serving those 6 months for rape. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

Also I forgive and love every single person who gets out of prison because they have served their time and are white and just stole some money and I have plenty of money so really they have repaid their debt to society. I'd buy them a beer and dinner and let them fuck my wife if I run into them on the street.  

Why just the other day I ran into Brock Turner (the Stanford swimmer rapist) and I shook his hand and told him how proud I was of him and that he had repaid his debt to society by serving those 6 months for rape. 

Yeah, I didn't say any of that dickhead.

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CHEF DIESEL

CHEF DIESEL 126

Posted
Posted (edited)

I know a guy who worked as a utility lineman for 45 years with Houston Natural Gas. His utility company was bought out by Enron. As a result his pension was wiped out. A whole lifetime of work destroyed. He never played the stock market or was a part of the Enron culture. They came in and wiped him out. Good ol' Kenny Boi.

His medical coverage was wiped out too. Cancer ended up eating him alive not long ago.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
Just now, CHEF DIESEL said:

I know a guy who worked as a utility lineman for 45 years with Houston Natural Gas. His utility company was bought out by Enron. As a result his pension was wiped out. A whole lifetime of work destroyed. He never played the stock market or was a part of the Enron culture. They came in and wiped him out. Good ol' Kenny Boi.

That sucks and was not his fault.

All those Arthur Anderson partners near retirement took a nice butt fucking too.

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MAROON

MAROON 445

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Was he one of the Duke Energy guys?  Because if so, that's one of the ones I am thinking of.  I sat through that trial and was pissed at the government.  They were being prosecuted under a statute that was put on the books in the 1920s and had never once been used in a criminal prosecution.  It was a disgusting abuse of power.  Their lawyers were absolutely phenomenal.  If I ever had my ass in a sling in a complicated white collar case, that's who I would use (Paul Nugent).

Saw plenty of other abuses of power against poor criminals too that could not afford a Paul Nugent.  

Yes.  

 

Ya the mid level accountant at dynegy (young girl who had to cop a plea) and her boss (who it think might still be in prison).

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Also I forgive and love every single person who gets out of prison because they have served their time and are white and just stole some money and I have plenty of money so really they have repaid their debt to society. I'd buy them a beer and dinner and let them fuck my wife if I run into them on the street. 

Why just the other day I ran into Brock Turner (the Stanford swimmer rapist) and I shook his hand and told him how proud I was of him and that he had repaid his debt to society by serving those 6 months for rape. 

you were a better poster when you were funny, I am sorry the Cloak Room got you

Edited by SwanderedTalent
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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7780

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Posted
27 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

All those Arthur Anderson partners near retirement took a nice butt fucking too.

Yep.  I worked at AA after college (first in SA then in Denver).  I left about a year before Enron blew up, but knew a lot of folks whose retirements got destroyed who never had anything to do with Enron.  Some were close to retirement and some had just retired.  They allowed partners to take payouts over 10 years instead of a lump sum for tax purposes, which they almost all did.  Also knew a couple guys who had just bought in as new partners when it blew up.  so they had the debt from the buy-in, but no asset on the other side.  

 

I blame Spitzer for that, though.  It was his overzealous prosecution of AA regarding Enron that killed the firm.  When he charged the firm in NY, they lost their ability to audit public clients and the firm died.  They were eventually exonerated on those charges, but by then the firm was dead.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

Yep.  I worked at AA after college (first in SA then in Denver).  I left about a year before Enron blew up, but knew a lot of folks whose retirements got destroyed who never had anything to do with Enron.  Some were close to retirement and some had just retired.  They allowed partners to take payouts over 10 years instead of a lump sum for tax purposes, which they almost all did.  Also knew a couple guys who had just bought in as new partners when it blew up.  so they had the debt from the buy-in, but no asset on the other side.  

 

I blame Spitzer for that, though.  It was his overzealous prosecution of AA regarding Enron that killed the firm.  When he charged the firm in NY, they lost their ability to audit public clients and the firm died.  They were eventually exonerated on those charges, but by then the firm was dead.

My best friend was two years in as a tax accountant at AA when it blew up.  He was fine as he had nothing accumulated at that point anyway.  He's now a partner at EY.  But the older guys absolutely got screwed.

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RPM

RPM 26329

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

And yes, if you had all of your retirement in one stock -- especially one as volatile as Enron -- you are fucking stupid and greedy.  There is zero debate on that.

There literally is debate about it.

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ztejas

ztejas 43524

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Posted

Lay died before he could pay any of his debts. I don't know what Skilling's story will be, but 12 years in prison is significant. 

Fastow has completely turned the corner and basically created a second life about his story, involvement and cautionary tales. I'm not sure if he's totally absolved the damage he did, but he is well on his way. 

Skilling will be able to consult, write, or speak if he wants to, or he may just go with the wind and fuck off to somewhere where he can't be bothered. I'd hope he takes from Fastow and uses his experiences to caution corporate America and work to instill a sense of ethics in our current business environment. 

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futureman

futureman 22512

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Posted
2 hours ago, Updawg said:

I've heard he's going on the speech circuit.
Curious how remorseful he truly is.

a man’s gotta eat.  he’s too smart to flip burgers and nobody is hiring him to run their company.  if he can earn some honest money telling cautionary tales I applaud him.  would love to hear what he has to say. 

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