Bob Kraft Arrested in Sex Sting

[Rimbo 26482]

6 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The women in these spas are slaves so I don’t have a problem if the men using their services get publicly embarrassed. By no means are the customers as bad as the traffickers or someone like R. Kelly but the slaves wouldn’t exist if men like Kraft stopped going in there. These spas are not victimless crimes.

law enforcement should also be questioned why they aren’t regularly raiding these spas to shut them down as well. 

Well, I can think of two reasons. One, not every single Asian spa is part of the slave/rub-and-tug trade.

Two, if a cop shuts down his favorite rub-and-tug, he can't go there any more.

[smwhorn 483]

Haven't read all the way through the thread.  I went to the NFL.com website and there is no mention of Kraft's arrest or the charges against him.  Sorry if this has been discussed already.  The first link on their site is "News."  Apparently, Kraft's arrest and charges aren't "News."

Edited February 25, 2019 by smwhorn

[Blotto 23755]

1 hour ago, Dr Fear said:

He went the day before and the morning of the AFC Championship game.

[TwiceHorn 31705]

4 hours ago, 'stache said:

Again, the headlines and articles seem clear to me that he was charged solely for solicitation, not trafficking. The further story is that he was caught as part of a trafficking investigation. All relevant, factual statements. I do agree that prostitution should be legal to help prevent trafficking and providing that women who do this work are truly doing it of their own free will and being paid fairly. But that's a different point to be made.

No, you're right, that is a valid point.  I just fear that all this "publicity" may lead to some bad policy decisions in the name of a war on trafficking.  Trafficking is not a good thing, and should be eradicated, but fumbling around with the low-hanging fruit seems to be kind of what we do until we get around to declaring war on it.

Murder, robbery, and rape are bad too, and more common, yet we feel no need to declare wars on those offenses.  "Tough on crime" is bad enough.

Edited February 25, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[MAUFRAIS 6680]

Fumbling around with the low-hanging fruit

That’s extra

[runthebone 8183]

 BREAKING NEWS:  a handjob on Robert Kraft takes 10 minutes.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/robert-kraft-faces-two-misdemeanor-solicitation-charges/2019/02/25/056345bc-3935-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html

 

Quote

The massage attendant hugged Kraft before the sex act, a detective who viewed the video wrote, and then hugged him again about 10 minutes later when it was over. He tipped her $100, plus at least one other unidentifiable bill, records state, and then headed for the parking lot, where a blue 2015 Bentley was waiting for him

 

[cabowabo 4578]

Man, what a life.  Get your cock and balls manipulated in the morning by some Chinese slaves in Florida, and be at the AFC Championship game in KC later that day.  FML.

[Pam Cummings 9718]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Awareness programs are one thing.  Painting solicitation defendants as traffickers is another; as is publicly glorifying john/hooker busts as trafficking busts.  And without wading into that debate, justifying sex worker prohibitions on a connection to human trafficking is yet another.

It's really drug war 2: poontang boogaloo.

It is not.

 

Drugs are drugs. Prostitutes are people.

 

Think about this for two seconds. If prositution is legalized, there will be a lot more dudes wanting the service than there are ladies to provide that service. Sure, some women would be ready and willing to be hookers, but most women would not. Therefore, human trafficking would happen to satiate the demand.

 

Again, these are real people. Not inanimate objects. This is not comparable to drugs for that reason.

 

Source, btw:

https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/

[TwiceHorn 31705]

2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

It is not.

 

Drugs are drugs. Prostitutes are people.

 

Think about this for two seconds. If prositution is legalized, there will be a lot more dudes wanting the service than there are ladies to provide that service. Sure, some women would be ready and willing to be hookers, but most women would not. Therefore, human trafficking would happen to satiate the demand.

 

Again, these are real people. Not inanimate objects. This is not comparable to drugs for that reason.

 

Source, btw:

https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/

Reasonable point as far as it goes.  I get skeptical when a crime gets politicized as it seems human trafficking has become or is becoming.

Edited February 25, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Pam Cummings 9718]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Reasonable point as far as it goes.  I get skeptical when a crime gets politicized as it seems human trafficking has become or is becoming.

Unfortunately human trafficking seems to be a big problem, especially in our state. And it's a very easy comparison to make, because the problems of drugs and prostitution are so intertwined.

[Brisketexan 105701]

54 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Reasonable point as far as it goes.  I get skeptical when a crime gets politicized as it seems human trafficking has become or is becoming.

Well, the flip side of that is that it's long been ignored/swept under the rug.  It's some truly awful shit.  I've been at presentations to a small legal group by folks who work these cases (attorneys and LEOs), and I have a family member who has been active in a private anti-trafficking organization for quite a while.  Setting aside Trump's recent rhetoric, it's a crime that frankly needs to be a bit more publicized (if not politicized).

See folks above -- if a guy thinks he's getting a rub and tug from a cute asian gal who is just hustling for a buck, his conscience may not bother him.  When he realizes that she may be doing the job because she fears for her safety and that of her family....most people's conscience kicks in.

Kraft is a billionaire.  If he's gonna pay for it, that cheap mofo should be paying for someone on the damned high end -- the high price is for a clean conscience, and discretion.  When you go to an asian massage parlor, you KNOW that the odds are pretty high that some poor slave is doing the work.  That's pretty f'n bad, man.

And when you get down to it.....look at Kraft's life.  Yeah, he's got money.  But look at the people around him, and his relationships -- or more appropriately, lack thereof.  That's freaking sad, man.  Reminds me of Bud Adams, who freaking died alone.  Lots of money, but dirt poor where it counts.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Reason #234526 why billionaires create their own secret sex cults.

[Brisketexan 105701]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Reason #234526 why billionaires create their own secret sex cults.

Poor people do it too.  And I think they have more fun with it.

[Rimbo 26482]

NSIAP

http://www.thedrawplay.com/comic/robert-kraft-finds-the-new-underdog-angle/

[ChiTownDoc 21258]

This is crazy but there's probably a right and wrong way to go about paying for a blowjob.  The act itself and paying is fine imo, between two consenting parties.  But don't go some place where there's a damn good chance the gals are being trafficked.  Kraft comes off as a complete idiot in all of this.  

So on one hand two consenting adults...and on the other, this is a dead ringer for housing trafficked chicks AND fuck the patriots/Kraft.  Three hands?  Cool.  

[ChiTownDoc 21258]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, the flip side of that is that it's long been ignored/swept under the rug.  It's some truly awful shit.  I've been at presentations to a small legal group by folks who work these cases (attorneys and LEOs), and I have a family member who has been active in a private anti-trafficking organization for quite a while.  Setting aside Trump's recent rhetoric, it's a crime that frankly needs to be a bit more publicized (if not politicized).

See folks above -- if a guy thinks he's getting a rub and tug from a cute asian gal who is just hustling for a buck, his conscience may not bother him.  When he realizes that she may be doing the job because she fears for her safety and that of her family....most people's conscience kicks in.

Kraft is a billionaire.  If he's gonna pay for it, that cheap mofo should be paying for someone on the damned high end -- the high price is for a clean conscience, and discretion.  When you go to an asian massage parlor, you KNOW that the odds are pretty high that some poor slave is doing the work.  That's pretty f'n bad, man.

And when you get down to it.....look at Kraft's life.  Yeah, he's got money.  But look at the people around him, and his relationships -- or more appropriately, lack thereof.  That's freaking sad, man.  Reminds me of Bud Adams, who freaking died alone.  Lots of money, but dirt poor where it counts.

God damn it.  Attorneys always find a way to say shit better and with more words.  This. 

[Frank Gallagher 97]

Poor Mingfu Lu.  He could have slid on by if his names wasn't under Kraft's

BTW, this is why I always do the outcall.

[immortal13 4059]

9 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

That’s pretty much the same logic used in the war on drugs. Lock up the users and eliminate demand. It hasn’t worked very well there. On the other hand legalizing weed has pretty much eliminated the financial incentive for the illegal trade in those areas. I think the same thing would work in the sex trade. If you legalize it, you would eliminate most of the financial incentive for the illegal trade and have a much larger impact on human trafficking than we ever will by locking up johns. Just my uninformed opinion.

But what would cops do for fun then?

[Vic Mackey 47435]

3 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

But what would cops do for fun then?

Shoot unarmed citizens? 

[TwiceHorn 31705]

Again, I have no issue with actual promotion of awareness of sex trafficking.  It's horrendous, and, as noted, a sort of historically neglected problem.

However, in any alleged "sex trafficking" bust where they arrest the hookers, it loses all credibility as anything other than a hooker/john case.  The hookers are supposed to be the victims.  Also, LEO working to stop actual sex trafficking aren't going to want to screw with 200 warrants for misdemeanor solicitation.  It was either never about human trafficking, or they gave up and settled for low-hanging fruit.

And publicizing an issue is fine, politicizing a crime is rarely, if ever, fine.  Legislators are barely competent in criminal justice, and when they start using it to pander for votes, it never, ever works out well.  "Prioritizing" a crime, so that cops employ their usual tactics to bust people at a higher rate, and falsely or disingenuously calling it a victory for the prioritized crime is also bad idea jeans.

[immortal13 4059]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Again, I have no issue with actual promotion of awareness of sex trafficking.  It's horrendous, and, as noted, a sort of historically neglected problem.

However, in any alleged "sex trafficking" bust where they arrest the hookers, it loses all credibility as anything other than a hooker/john case.  The hookers are supposed to be the victims.  Also, LEO working to stop actual sex trafficking aren't going to want to screw with 200 warrants for misdemeanor solicitation.  It was either never about human trafficking, or they gave up and settled for low-hanging fruit.

And publicizing an issue is fine, politicizing a crime is rarely, if ever, fine.  Legislators are barely competent in criminal justice, and when they start using it to pander for votes, it never, ever works out well.  "Prioritizing" a crime, so that cops employ their usual tactics to bust people at a higher rate, and falsely or disingenuously calling it a victory for the prioritized crime is also bad idea jeans.

It's all about "appearances" for DA's offices and cops. Gotta keep up the hero/saving the world narrative

[Gil Bang 26121]

I made my position clear earlier but I've thought about it a little more. 

If a woman is essentially a "slave", is asking her to rub my balls worse than asking her to rub my shoulders?  

I say no...both are wrong.   But where does it end?  How about the waitress in the locan dim sum joint...is she there because she chooses to be?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13568]

16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Again, I have no issue with actual promotion of awareness of sex trafficking.  It's horrendous, and, as noted, a sort of historically neglected problem.

However, in any alleged "sex trafficking" bust where they arrest the hookers, it loses all credibility as anything other than a hooker/john case.  The hookers are supposed to be the victims.  Also, LEO working to stop actual sex trafficking aren't going to want to screw with 200 warrants for misdemeanor solicitation.  It was either never about human trafficking, or they gave up and settled for low-hanging fruit.

And publicizing an issue is fine, politicizing a crime is rarely, if ever, fine.  Legislators are barely competent in criminal justice, and when they start using it to pander for votes, it never, ever works out well.  "Prioritizing" a crime, so that cops employ their usual tactics to bust people at a higher rate, and falsely or disingenuously calling it a victory for the prioritized crime is also bad idea jeans.

If they don't arrest the women, how do they prevent them from just being moved to Tampa next week?  Don't they have to detain them somehow in order to find help for them?   Bring in a jail in Palm Beach has got to be better than in a strip mall waiting for Bob Kraft to show up.

 

[Gil Bang 26121]

3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If they don't arrest the women, how do they prevent them from just being moved to Tampa next week?  Don't they have to detain them somehow in order to find help for them?   Bring in a jail in Palm Beach has got to be better than in a strip mall waiting for Bob Kraft to show up.

 

In all fairness, you're not gonna get carpal tunnel whacking his geriatric cock for 8 minutes.  

[jdhorn92 1562]

6 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

 

Private jets are sweet. In and out , no TSA

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

15 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I made my position clear earlier but I've thought about it a little more. 

If a woman is essentially a "slave", is asking her to rub my balls worse than asking her to rub my shoulders?  

I say no...both are wrong.   But where does it end?  How about the waitress in the locan dim sum joint...is she there because she chooses to be?

Would you work in a dim sum place by choice ?

[Gil Bang 26121]

no I would not. 

 

Wait...would I get free dim sum?   If so...

[Rusty Shackelford 414]

I made my position clear earlier but I've thought about it a little more. 
If a woman is essentially a "slave", is asking her to rub my balls worse than asking her to rub my shoulders?  

I say no...both are wrong.   But where does it end?  How about the waitress in the locan dim sum joint...is she there because she chooses to be?

You know, that’s right man... I go to work (and not because I want to be there) for an old rich white man. It kinda makes me feel like a whore.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

no I would not. 

 

Wait...would I get free dim sum?   If so...

All you can eat on your 5 minute, once a day break.

[Aqua Buddha 14671]

4 hours ago, runthebone said:

 BREAKING NEWS:  a handjob on Robert Kraft takes 10 minutes.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/robert-kraft-faces-two-misdemeanor-solicitation-charges/2019/02/25/056345bc-3935-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html

 

 

So, the driver of the Bentley is sitting there in a seedy strip mall parking lot while Kraft is getting his joint worked?

[NowThis 931]

has the other celeb been named yet? 

[Jkwellborn 6898]

has the other celeb been named yet? 

Player to be named.

[runthebone 8183]

24 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

So, the driver of the Bentley is sitting there in a seedy strip mall parking lot while Kraft is getting his joint worked?

"Keep the engine running."

[Richard Kimball 1506]

Confession. I was skeptical of the story because previously they just said they had surveillance video. If they stopped him, checked his driver's license and got the plates, it's pretty conclusive. I also had trouble believing he could be that stupid. Then I remembered:

Hugh Grant went for this:

When he was dating this:

 

There are some things I'll never understand.

[MrPhlegm 3413]

So, the driver of the Bentley is sitting there in a seedy strip mall parking lot while Kraft is getting his joint worked?

Yes, it's Florida after all. And a Bentley? JFC. Kraft is a cheap bastard. Bentleys are what the poors drive in Sofla.

 

And as far as human trafficing in Fla goes these rub and tug places are small potatoes compared to the virtual slavery ring that goes on just east of 429 and just north of 192. These folks bring in virtual slaves from all over the country and world, force them to live in ring owned housing, work them long hours day and night, pay them a pittance with no overtime or holiday pay and charge them most of that pittance to live in ring owned housing. A lot of surlyites patronize this ring and give them lots of money.

 

[Vic Mackey 47435]

...

[Murfdogg21 4492]

So was he in Miami for an official reason and some other rich dude recommended the $100 dragon grip special, or did he fly in just for two handys in 24 hours to relieve the tension before the AFC championship? Like Ron Mexico, did he refer to himself as “Pat MaBone”?

[Murfdogg21 4492]

2 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

...

Some just take it for free after following coeds into the ladies room, right Ben?

Edited February 26, 2019 by Murfdogg21

[Rusty Shackelford 414]

Some just take it for free after following coeds into the ladies room, right Ben?

[MrPhlegm 3413]

So was he in Miami for an official reason and some other rich dude recommended the $100 dragon grip special, or did he fly in just for two handys in 24 hours to relieve the tension before the AFC championship? Like Ron Mexico, did he refer to himself as “Pat MaBone”?

In Miami? Jupiter is almost 90 miles from Miami. Kraft has a house in Jupiter.

[Rimbo 26482]

4 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I made my position clear earlier but I've thought about it a little more. 

If a woman is essentially a "slave", is asking her to rub my balls worse than asking her to rub my shoulders?  
 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, "Yes, and there is something wrong with you if you don't see the distinction between a professional service and a sexual solicitation, regardless of the giver's circumstances." You're definitely adding injury to injury by doing so.

[Bone3421 716]

...

Lol that is great....nothing like some rape to go along with trafficking/handies

[Masshole Horn 781]

14 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Kraft is a billionaire.  If he's gonna pay for it, that cheap mofo should be paying for someone on the damned high end -- the high price is for a clean conscience, and discretion.

This is VERY WRONG.

Getting people that do their job well at a bargain basement prices is "The Patriot Way(TM)."

[Underdog 28891]

10 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

So was he in Miami for an official reason and some other rich dude recommended the $100 dragon grip special, or did he fly in just for two handys in 24 hours to relieve the tension before the AFC championship? Like Ron Mexico, did he refer to himself as “Pat MaBone”?

LMFAO

[housious 468]

13 hours ago, NowThis said:

has the other celeb been named yet? 

There was some former web.com tour player in the mix. Is that celeb enough for you?

[NowThis 931]

11 minutes ago, housious said:

There was some former web.com tour player in the mix. Is that celeb enough for you?

no

[TwiceHorn 31705]

14 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If they don't arrest the women, how do they prevent them from just being moved to Tampa next week?  Don't they have to detain them somehow in order to find help for them?   Bring in a jail in Palm Beach has got to be better than in a strip mall waiting for Bob Kraft to show up.

 

I suppose I should have said "arrest and charge."  I have seen some more trafficking-oriented arrests where the victims were placed in protective custody, which is technically an arrest or detention.  But as soon as they start mugshotting and publicizing their names, it loses credibility, imo.

All I am saying is, please critically examine these so-called human trafficking busts and ask yourself if it is really impacting trafficking, despite what the popo and the FBI may be trying to sell you.

It may help you be more informed if a legislator should bring up some ill-informed or advised piece of legislation to combat an horrific problem.  Like this.  Why is that shitty policymaking, or the beginning of it?  Because the federal government has no business enacting rape legislation.  None.  That bitch is doing nothing but currying favor with a certain segment of the electorate.

Edited February 26, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Trey3216 15382]

15 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Shoot unarmed citizens? 

Shoot dogs.  But not at Asian massage parlors. 

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1107]

15 hours ago, NowThis said:

has the other celeb been named yet? 

Ex-Citigroup President and current hedge fund chairman John Havens, come on down!

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/martin-county/2019/02/25/human-trafficking-ring-ex-citigroup-pres-john-havens-charged-soliciting-prostitution/2978604002/

Quote

Former Citigroup President John Havens is one of several men accused of soliciting prostitution in connection with a Florida spa tied to an international human trafficking ring, police said Friday.

Havens, 62, is accused soliciting prostitution at Orchids of Asia Day Spa in Jupiter, according to Jupiter Police Department. It's not clear if a warrant has been issued for his arrest.

Havens told Bloomberg he had "no idea" what a reporter was talking about when asked about the charges. He didn't reply to multiple calls from the outlet after. 

“I have no idea what you are talking about,” a man who answered a listed phone number for Havens said when reached by phone. He then hung up and additional calls weren’t answered.

Havens' name and birth date matches with a list of suspects provided by Jupiter Police. 

Havens worked as Citigroup's president in 2011 and 2012. He resigned in October 2012 after pressure from the bank's board, according to CNBC.

Since resigning Havens has served as chairman of Citigroup’s former hedge-fund arm, Napier Park Global Capital. 

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by J.R. Juniors Junior Jr.

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1107]

Slightly off-topic, but did anyone notice that the story broke about three days before  the Kraft scandal that COTA was losing $20 million of state incentive money because it failed to include a required anti-trafficking plan in its application?  Bad timing, Bernie.

http://www.kut.org/post/paperwork-could-cost-circuit-americas-20-million-last-years-f1-race