Speeding Ticket Question

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

Need some advice here.

One of my kids got a speeding ticket up in SA a couple of months ago from a DPS trooper.    I don't like to slander DPS troopers, but this guy appears like he was trying to make a quota and was being an asshole probably because he was young.   Anyhow, he got cited for going 72 in a 60 zone on North 281 close to the UIW campus/ Alamo Stadium area.   I've driven that area too many times and if you are going 60, you are going to get pushed off the road.   

Anyhow he was told to show up for appearance on our before this Wednesday, but as of  today the ticket is not even in their  system.   I want him to take defensive driving,  but the idiots at this JP's office will not grant him the request over the phone.  Question.... If this ticket is not in the system by Wednesday, is it an auto dismissal?   

[Lerka Lerka 1087]

Answer: Nope

[Guest]

No.  always follow up and get an official document of whatever resolution is reached.

You don't want warrant issues, regardless of how seemingly trivial it might seem right now.

I would have him make the appearance and be straight up about the situation. Request DDC.  If unavailable, request a bench hearing/ trial.*

* this depends on how much hassle/ expendable time you want to deal with.  I have shown 3 different times for one citation and on the 3rd time the judge dismissed it because they did not have their shit in order; however, the judge made the decision, not me on a whim.

Edited February 25, 2019 by slorch

[KaiserSoze 998]

close to the UIW campus

He's lucky they didn't shoot him.

[Bernard 879]

It’s a tax on driving. Nothing more. Just pay it and move on.

Tell Jr. that if he wants to speed, the best technique is drive slow until passed by faster vehicles. Follow a few hundred yards behind your fellow speeder. First car almost gets the ticket, although I was once pulled over along with the guy I was trailing.

Bernard

[Bernard 879]

7 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I don't like to slander DPS troopers

By definition, the truth is not slander. 

Bernard

[deadshank 24653]

Why are you considering the DPS trooper to be an asshole?  Your kid was doing 12 over.  Should the DPS trooper given him a key to the city?  

Don't get me wrong.  I drive fast on the highway, too.  80 in a 75 is normal for me.   On occasion I'll do 85 or better.   If I get lit up for doing what I know I'm doing then I don't act butt hurt and think the DPS trooper an ahole filling his quota.  I was speeding and that's that.  

Let your kid figure it out and quit crying for him..

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Bernard said:

It’s a tax on driving. Nothing more. Just pay it and move on.

 

Whatever the reaction might be, this almost certainly is not the best FINANCIAL solution, especially if the young man is under 25.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

2 hours ago, deadshank said:

Why are you considering the DPS trooper to be an asshole?  Your kid was doing 12 over.  Should the DPS trooper given him a key to the city?  

Don't get me wrong.  I drive fast on the highway, too.  80 in a 75 is normal for me.   On occasion I'll do 85 or better.   If I get lit up for doing what I know I'm doing then I don't act butt hurt and think the DPS trooper an ahole filling his quota.  I was speeding and that's that.  

Let your kid figure it out and quit crying for him..

I'm not crying for him, just noting he was going with the flow in an area where if you don't go with the flow you can end up on the shoulder of the road or worse thanks to real assholes on the road who think they are Daytona 500 drivers. 

The kid went up to the JP's office upon their advice a couple of weeks ago when he a day off from school  on his own and when he got their they kindly told him his ticket was not in the system.  Something they could have  told him over the phone and saved him a two hour trip.  He's 18 and a Senior in high school, so if we have to make a return trip he will have to miss school.  

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

Whatever the reaction might be, this almost certainly is not the best FINANCIAL solution, especially if the young man is under 25.

This....

When you have two male drivers under 25 on your auto policy,  the insurers just love you to death.   When a male under 25  receives  a traffic violation and pays it instead of taking defensive driving to get it dismissed, the insurers love you even more as long as it doesn't involve an accident.    

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I'm not crying for him, just noting he was going with the flow in an area where if you don't go with the flow you can end up on the shoulder of the road or worse thanks to real assholes on the road who think they are Daytona 500 drivers. 

The kid went up to the JP's office upon their advice a couple of weeks ago when he a day off from school  on his own and when he got their they kindly told him his ticket was not in the system.  Something they could have  told him over the phone and saved him a two hour trip.  He's 18 and a Senior in high school, so if we have to make a return trip he will have to miss school.  

Sneaky on the kids part. Get a speeding ticket to get out having to go to school....

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

36 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

 Something they could have  told him over the phone and saved him a two hour trip.

Pretty sure he made it in an hour and a half. 

[HRSchenker 2271]

6 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I'm not crying for him, just noting he was going with the flow in an area where if you don't go with the flow you can end up on the shoulder of the road or worse thanks to real assholes on the road who think they are Daytona 500 drivers. 

The kid went up to the JP's office upon their advice a couple of weeks ago when he a day off from school  on his own and when he got their they kindly told him his ticket was not in the system.  Something they could have  told him over the phone and saved him a two hour trip.  He's 18 and a Senior in high school, so if we have to make a return trip he will have to miss school.  

Why can't he just do deferred adjudication? Go watch a defensive driving video shot during the Bill Clinton administration and get it over with. That ticket is going to cost him a shitload in insurance rate hikes

[HiggyBaby 2538]

For a great DD option I can highly recommend Aceable.com and the Aceable app. Just used it to get out of my own ticket. And I think it’s an Austin company that produces it.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

Why can't he just do deferred adjudication? Go watch a defensive driving video shot during the Bill Clinton administration and get it over with. That ticket is going to cost him a shitload in insurance rate hikes

He’s going to take DD. Sucks you just can’t take care of this shit over the phone.

[Bernard 879]

12 hours ago, slorch said:

Whatever the reaction might be, this almost certainly is not the best FINANCIAL solution, especially if the young man is under 25.

Depends on how much you value your time and attention. 

Bernard

[immortal13 4059]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

He’s going to take DD. Sucks you just can’t take care of this shit over the phone.
 

Or at least via email or fax or something...

Edited February 27, 2019 by immortal13

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

Update.

We got it resolved.   The kid will take DD and it will be wiped from his record which is what I expected.  

I was kind of amused sitting at the  court session yesterday and the JP was allowing almost everyone regardless of what charge they were in court to answer for to pay the fine and it would be wiped from their driving record.   It didn't matter if it were speeding, driving without a license, failure to show proof of insurance,  etc.   The only exception were drivers under 25 like my kid who have to take DD.    

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Update.

We got it resolved.   The kid will take DD and it will be wiped from his record which is what I expected.  

I was kind of amused sitting at the  court session yesterday and the JP was allowing almost everyone regardless of what charge they were in court to answer for to pay the fine and it would be wiped from their driving record.   It didn't matter if it were speeding, driving without a license, failure to show proof of insurance,  etc.   The only exception were drivers under 25 like my kid who have to take DD.    

Glad it got resolved.

The scenario for older drivers just seems like a perpetual cash machine from people who disobey the speed limits.  

Unfortunately, I am all to familiar with handling traffic citations myself, but it’s been about 10 years since my last ticket.  

[kevwun 15797]

On 2/25/2019 at 11:29 PM, thestud said:

They have until the end of the month I believe to turn in their tickets. And as someone who has received his fair share of citations from DPS troopers, mainly in Garza county, I can tell you they like to wait until the end of the month and they turn them all in at once. That’s the most likely explanation I can think of as to why the clerk doesn’t have anything on Nueces Rat Jr. yet

The statute of limitations is 2 years, so theoretically the officer could hold on to the ticket for that long.

[RPM 26322]

6 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Update.

We got it resolved.   The kid will take DD and it will be wiped from his record which is what I expected.  

I was kind of amused sitting at the  court session yesterday and the JP was allowing almost everyone regardless of what charge they were in court to answer for to pay the fine and it would be wiped from their driving record.   It didn't matter if it were speeding, driving without a license, failure to show proof of insurance,  etc.   The only exception were drivers under 25 like my kid who have to take DD.    

This doesn't apply in your situation, but if one of those driver's had a CDL they wouldn't wipe it or let them take DD. I've had one since I turned 17 and they were called Chauffer's license. Don't driver trucks anymore, but hold on to it anyway. Went over 15 years without a ticket. Got pulled over last year for 78/70 in my car. Because I have a CDL they cut me no slack at all. Thanks DPS.

[Guest]

I let my CDL go for that very reason.  It's bullshit that i would be held to a different standard in my personal vehicle.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

4 hours ago, slorch said:

Glad it got resolved.

The scenario for older drivers just seems like a perpetual cash machine from people who disobey the speed limits.  

Unfortunately, I am all to familiar with handling traffic citations myself, but it’s been about 10 years since my last ticket.  

It's been about 20 years since I've received a traffic citation.   I've had a few warnings since then and now that I've bragged about it I will probably get one soon.  LOL!

I was stopped  on US 77  near Sarita in Kenedy County.    Back then you rarely saw DPS Troopers on that stretch of road, save for around Spring Break when they knew they had easy targets, but I guess it was my turn.   At times even the check points were closed back then.       Anyhow it was resolved with one stop at the courthouse where the JP was also the County Judge.   No need to show up on a particular day or time.   Guess that's the way they roll in a county where the cows outnumber the people by the thousands.  

Edited March 1, 2019 by Nueces River Rat

[Zombie 284]

This doesn't apply in your situation, but if one of those driver's had a CDL they wouldn't wipe it or let them take DD. I've had one since I turned 17 and they were called Chauffer's license. Don't driver trucks anymore, but hold on to it anyway. Went over 15 years without a ticket. Got pulled over last year for 78/70 in my car. Because I have a CDL they cut me no slack at all. Thanks DPS.

When I was a baby ADA in SA a lifetime ago I had JP duty once or twice a week. I almost always allowed CDL holders to plea to a different offense that didn't affect their CDL and dismissed the underlying offense that would. I think this was pretty standard practice by the non-asshole ADAs because it was taught to me by a couple more senior ADAs.

[TXSooner518 2438]

20 hours ago, slorch said:

I let my CDL go for that very reason.  It's bullshit that i would be held to a different standard in my personal vehicle.

Ehhh. Studies show that driving is a very habit-based behavior (pretty obvious to anyone who has ever zoned out on a drive they make often or whatever). So by definition, if you're speeding/following too closely/changing lanes unsafely in your personal vehicle, you're more likely to do it behind the wheel of the commercial vehicle, and that's when people get killed.

17 hours ago, Zombie said:

20 hours ago, RPM said:

This doesn't apply in your situation, but if one of those driver's had a CDL they wouldn't wipe it or let them take DD. I've had one since I turned 17 and they were called Chauffer's license. Don't driver trucks anymore, but hold on to it anyway. Went over 15 years without a ticket. Got pulled over last year for 78/70 in my car. Because I have a CDL they cut me no slack at all. Thanks DPS.

When I was a baby ADA in SA a lifetime ago I had JP duty once or twice a week. I almost always allowed CDL holders to plea to a different offense that didn't affect their CDL and dismissed the underlying offense that would. I think this was pretty standard practice by the non-asshole ADAs because it was taught to me by a couple more senior ADAs.

Ehhh x2. Unethical for a prosecutor to file an offense they don't have good faith belief occurred. Also, professional drivers who drive 80,000 pound vehicles should probably be following the rules of the road, and if they can't, they should probably find a different job. Also, if every time a CDL holder gets a ticket, they get this deal, they can always show up the next time with "BUT I HAVE A CLEAN RECORD!!" and then the 8th time they can't stop texting while driving an 18 wheeler or doing something else idiotic, people get killed.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

Ehhh. Studies show that driving is a very habit-based behavior (pretty obvious to anyone who has ever zoned out on a drive they make often or whatever). So by definition, if you're speeding/following too closely/changing lanes unsafely in your personal vehicle, you're more likely to do it behind the wheel of the commercial vehicle, and that's when people get killed.

 

Fuck off.

Got any other Minority report hoseshit police work to do? if i do 78 in a 70, in my personal vehicle, that has jack shit to do with our commercial vehicles which top out at 65.

I  cuss like a motherfucker at home.  I also masturbate.  I don't do it at work.  See the difference in behavior?  of course not...

Edited March 2, 2019 by slorch

[TXSooner518 2438]

Fuck off.
Got any other Minority report hoseshit police work to do? if i do 78 in a 70, in my personal vehicle, that has jack shit to do with our commercial vehicles which top out at 65.
I  cuss like a motherfucker at home.  I also masturbate.  I don't do it at work.  See the difference in behavior?  of course not...

It’s not minority report dude. It’s fucking science. And jacking off and cussing don’t kill people, cool comparison though.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

 

It’s not minority report dude. It’s fucking science. And jacking off and cussing don’t kill people, cool comparison though.

 

If DDC is available to anyone, it should be available to to folks who have a CDL>

I guess a little bit of death is OK though( your reasoning, not mine)

We as a society are not serious about eliminating speeding.  It's a fucking tax racket.

Edited March 2, 2019 by slorch

[RPM 26322]

7 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

It’s not minority report dude. It’s fucking science.

Username checks out.

[TXSooner518 2438]

If DDC is available to anyone, it should be available to to folks who have a CDL>

I guess a little bit of death is OK though( your reasoning, not mine)

We as a society are not serious about eliminating speeding.  It's a fucking tax racket.

 

I don’t understand how DSC is a tax racket. The state gets the same money either way. The county gets less on DSC than a ticket.

 

CDL holders driving records need to actually reflect their driving behavior. 84% of fatalities in wrecks involving CMVs are pedestrians or people in other cars. The people driving dangerous vehicles have to be the safest drivers. If you truly get some bogus 74 in a 70 ticket, that doesn’t count against your record anyway.

 

I teach the law to judges. I explain this to them by giving other examples of options you lose when you choose a profession. I can publicly endorse political candidates. They can’t. When I won $640k in a poker tourney I actually had an accountant tell me to just claim gambling losses in that amount to not pay taxes. But I had to consider my profession. As a lawyer, I can lose my license for crimes of moral turpitude. Because those crimes make it more likely that I could fuck my clients out of money.

 

Username checks out.

 

I don’t get this honestly. Are you saying because I’m a Sooner I don’t understand the concept? For one, I did go to UT law. For two, Minority Report involves punishing people for crimes they have thought about but not committed. Not allowing DSC for CDL holders protects the community in how crimes THAT WERE ALREADY COMMITTED are processed. Just like if you get arrested for DWI 2nd you get to put an interlock on your car to help stop you from yet another fuckup where you kill someone.

[phdhorn 6224]

On 2/28/2019 at 2:44 PM, slorch said:

Glad it got resolved.

 

On 2/28/2019 at 3:51 PM, kevwun said:

The statute of limitations is 2 years, so theoretically the officer could hold on to the ticket for that long.

My son got one about 6 months ago.  He got to take DD and it gets wiped from his record after 1 year.  That's the only one you get, the first one.  Not sure about the SOL but he only has to wait a year.  Of course if he gets a citation within that time (again, about 6 mo. left), he can take DD to reduce the fine but it won't get wiped off his record, and the other one will stick permanently, so he'll have 2 citations. 

Moral:  for the next 6 months drive like a Chinese woman in a Honda CRV.

[TwiceHorn 31495]

13 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

 

I don’t understand how DSC is a tax racket. The state gets the same money either way. The county gets less on DSC than a ticket.

 

CDL holders driving records need to actually reflect their driving behavior. 84% of fatalities in wrecks involving CMVs are pedestrians or people in other cars. The people driving dangerous vehicles have to be the safest drivers. If you truly get some bogus 74 in a 70 ticket, that doesn’t count against your record anyway.

 

I teach the law to judges. I explain this to them by giving other examples of options you lose when you choose a profession. I can publicly endorse political candidates. They can’t. When I won $640k in a poker tourney I actually had an accountant tell me to just claim gambling losses in that amount to not pay taxes. But I had to consider my profession. As a lawyer, I can lose my license for crimes of moral turpitude. Because those crimes make it more likely that I could fuck my clients out of money.

 

 

 

I don’t get this honestly. Are you saying because I’m a Sooner I don’t understand the concept? For one, I did go to UT law. For two, Minority Report involves punishing people for crimes they have thought about but not committed. Not allowing DSC for CDL holders protects the community in how crimes THAT WERE ALREADY COMMITTED are processed. Just like if you get arrested for DWI 2nd you get to put an interlock on your car to help stop you from yet another fuckup where you kill someone.

Without getting doxxy, do you work for the state?  I always enjoy your perspectives as a JP trainer.  Do you train county and district judges also?

[TXSooner518 2438]

My son got one about 6 months ago.  He got to take DD and it gets wiped from his record after 1 year.  That's the only one you get, the first one.  Not sure about the SOL but he only has to wait a year.  Of course if he gets a citation within that time (again, about 6 mo. left), he can take DD to reduce the fine but it won't get wiped off his record, and the other one will stick permanently, so he'll have 2 citations. 

Moral:  for the next 6 months drive like a Chinese woman in a Honda CRV.

The DSC wipes it off your record once you submit proof to the court. As long as you otherwise qualify, you’re entitled to dismiss one citation a year with DSC. If it’s been less than a year, the judge has the option to allow you to take DSC or deferred disposition to dismiss the ticket but isn’t required to. You wouldn’t be entitled to do DSC to reduce the fine.

Without getting doxxy, do you work for the state?  I always enjoy your perspectives as a JP trainer.  Do you train county and district judges also?

Thx! We are a grant-funded division of Texas State U, so technically yes. There are separate entities that get money from that same pot that train municipal judges, county judges, and district/appellate judges (that pot also helps fund public defenders and TDCAA). I have taught a few classes for the county judge group.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

 

I don’t understand how DSC is a tax racket. The state gets the same money either way. The county gets less on DSC than a ticket.

 

 

because with speeding being so deadly, again your words; DSC provides a second chance.  but if lives are truly at stake, why a 2nd chance?  You know why...

If we wanted to enforce speeding restrictions, 1) No vehicle in the US could go faster than 75 mph 2) the fines would be absolute.  No confessions.  No repenting.  Just pay the gotdam fine and take the points on your driving record.

As it is, it's a racket, albeit for those too dumb or unwilling to follow the laws. As i stated earlier, I haven't had a citation in over a decade and additionally i drive over 30k miles per year in a major metro area.

 

You will never convince me that it is logical to place restrictions on a CDL driver in their personal vehicle that is doing what every other citizen in the public is doing.  If they get cited while driving their work/ commercial vehicle, then nail their ass, by all means.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by slorch

[TXSooner518 2438]

because with speeding being so deadly, again your words; DSC provides a second chance.  but if lives are truly at stake, why a 2nd chance?  You know why...
If we wanted to enforce speeding restrictions, 1) No vehicle in the US could go faster than 75 mph 2) the fines would be absolute.  No confessions.  No repenting.  Just pay the gotdam fine and take the points on your driving record.
As it is, it's a racket, albeit for those too dumb or unwilling to follow the laws. As i stated earlier, I haven't had a citation in over a decade and additionally i drive over 30k miles per year in a major metro area.
 
You will never convince me that it is logical to place restrictions on a CDL driver in their personal vehicle that is doing what every other citizen in the public is doing.  If they get cited while driving their work/ commercial vehicle, then nail their ass, by all means.

Speed is a factor in a lot of deaths, but it is MUCH deadlier when done in large commercial vehicles. 80,000 pound vehicles take much longer to stop and do much more damage on impact than a 4,000 pound car.

Again explain how DSC is a tax racket. I told you already the state gets the same amount either way. The county gets less. So spell it out instead of “you know why”.

As to your proposal, often >75 is perfectly safe depending on road, conditions, etc. I also think taking away the ability to dispute charges would violate the U.S. Constitution so nah to that.

I drive about 35k miles a year myself. I would guarantee you can’t perfectly shut habits on and off while driving that much. Oh I only speed when I drive this car or oh I only text and drive in this car.

It’s not a big ask to get professional drivers to follow the driving laws JFC. As you point out you have been perfectly able to do it. If you can’t do it, choose one of the other eleventy billion jobs out there.

[Guest]

You recognize the difference in risk in vehicles, but you still believe in minority report attitudes towards the non-commerical vehicle.

 

JFC, why does it have to be the fucking difficult?  if you're cited of a violation while driving a vehicle requiring a CDL, handle it with rigidity then.  If the driver is an a regular vehicle, they should be afforded the same legal remedies as other drivers performing the same tasks.

I did describe why it is a racket.  if we were serious about ending speeding, we wouldn't involve 2nd and 3rd chances. Fine the living fuck out of speeders and revoke their DL after the 2nd or 3rd offense.

We as a society like dying, I guess.

FTR, i don't endorse such draconian enforcement.  I am just pointing out the cash vs effectiveness inconsistencies in the current set up.   Eradication of speeding is absolutely not the goal.

Edited March 2, 2019 by slorch

[TXSooner518 2438]

All strawmen all the time. You could carry any law to the most absurd conclusion. If we were really serious about ending “x” we would just automatically execute offenders.

Deferrals and other rehabilitative techniques when done correctly are actually a fuckton more effective than BIG TIME FINES.

DL suspensions are almost worthless because 75% continue to drive on suspended licenses. Also, you can get an ODL. If your next proposal is no more ODLs prepare for big tax increases to pay for the sustenance of people who can’t work anymore.

[RPM 26322]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

JFC, why does it have to be the fucking difficult?  if you're cited of a violation while driving a vehicle requiring a CDL, handle it with rigidity then.  If the driver is an a regular vehicle, they should be afforded the same legal remedies as other drivers performing the same tasks.

Bingo.

1 hour ago, TXSooner518 said:

All strawmen all the time.

To say that because you are speeding in a car means you will speed in a CDL vehicle is as strawman as it gets.

[Zombie 284]

Ehhh x2. Unethical for a prosecutor to file an offense they don't have good faith belief occurred. Also, professional drivers who drive 80,000 pound vehicles should probably be following the rules of the road, and if they can't, they should probably find a different job. Also, if every time a CDL holder gets a ticket, they get this deal, they can always show up the next time with "BUT I HAVE A CLEAN RECORD!!" and then the 8th time they can't stop texting while driving an 18 wheeler or doing something else idiotic, people get killed.

That's absurd. Prosecutors substitute charges all the time. Our role is to effect justice, not abide by rigid rules that do not allow for discretion and empathy. Any approach that does not have justice and fairness as the primary aims is unethical.

[TXSooner518 2438]

On 3/2/2019 at 11:41 AM, RPM said:

Bingo.

To say that because you are speeding in a car means you will speed in a CDL vehicle is as strawman as it gets.

Um, a "strawman" is a misconstruing of someone else's argument. You mean something other than strawman. And criminal law is filled with instances where your consequences depend on your prior conduct.

1) If you get charged with a second DWI, you have to get ignition interlock. Getting convicted of DWI and having probable cause that you did it again make it more likely that you will continue to drive while intoxicated. Therefore, restrictions are imposed on you to stop you from doing it again.

2) Your previous criminal history is used when setting bond amounts and conditions. Again, SCIENCE shows a correlation between prior offenses and committing additional offenses while out on bond. So the community has to have additional protections from your behavior.

3) You cannot normally be forced to put up cash to bond out of jail. But, if you fail to appear as required on your bond, now you can be forced to put up cash. Your previous failure to appear means you are a higher risk to fail to appear again, and so additional protections are required to reduce the chances that we have to hunt you down again.

4) So it is with CDL holders. There just aren't drivers out there who think "Oh, cool, I'm in my normal car, I can speed and text and not signal lane changes" who then drive a CMV and follow the speed limit and other rules and pay attention to the road. And when you develop bad habits in your personal vehicles, those habits become unacceptably dangerous in CMVs. Same reason why I can drive a personal vehicle at .02 BAC, but not a CMV.  

On 3/2/2019 at 1:10 PM, Zombie said:

On 3/1/2019 at 1:06 PM, TXSooner518 said:

Ehhh x2. Unethical for a prosecutor to file an offense they don't have good faith belief occurred. Also, professional drivers who drive 80,000 pound vehicles should probably be following the rules of the road, and if they can't, they should probably find a different job. Also, if every time a CDL holder gets a ticket, they get this deal, they can always show up the next time with "BUT I HAVE A CLEAN RECORD!!" and then the 8th time they can't stop texting while driving an 18 wheeler or doing something else idiotic, people get killed.

That's absurd. Prosecutors substitute charges all the time. Our role is to effect justice, not abide by rigid rules that do not allow for discretion and empathy. Any approach that does not have justice and fairness as the primary aims is unethical.

I didn't write these rules, but it is against prosecutorial ethics: ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct 3.8 "The prosecutor in a criminal case shall: 
(a) refrain from prosecuting a charge that the prosecutor knows is not supported by probable cause;"

Also, in my 15 years in dealing with misdemeanor courts, I'd say 99% of deals given to CDL holders are "The driver won't just pay it, because it goes on his record. We don't wanna devote time and resources to a fine-only misdemeanor case, so we will do whatever it takes to get the case closed."  Let's not act like these deals are given after some deep dive into this driver's actual history and behavior or any risk assessment on if this guy should actually be operating 80,000 lb. vehicles.  

[RPM 26322]

4 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

1) If you get charged with a second DWI, you have to get ignition interlock. Getting convicted of DWI and having probable cause that you did it again make it more likely that you will continue to drive while intoxicated. Therefore, restrictions are imposed on you to stop you from doing it again.

2) Your previous criminal history is used when setting bond amounts and conditions. Again, SCIENCE shows a correlation between prior offenses and committing additional offenses while out on bond. So the community has to have additional protections from your behavior.

3) You cannot normally be forced to put up cash to bond out of jail. But, if you fail to appear as required on your bond, now you can be forced to put up cash. Your previous failure to appear means you are a higher risk to fail to appear again, and so additional protections are required to reduce the chances that we have to hunt you down again.

4) So it is with CDL holders. There just aren't drivers out there who think "Oh, cool, I'm in my normal car, I can speed and text and not signal lane changes" who then drive a CMV and follow the speed limit and other rules and pay attention to the road. And when you develop bad habits in your personal vehicles, those habits become unacceptably dangerous in CMVs. Same reason why I can drive a personal vehicle at .02 BAC, but not a CMV.  

1) So even DWI offenders are given a second chance.

2) WTF does cash bond have to do with CDL v non-CDL?

3) See 2

4) So you want to hold CDL drivers to a professional standard 24/7? Let's apply that to your job. You are sworn to tell the truth in court. If you don't, you go to jail. Ever tell a lie outside the courtroom? Even a teeny little white lie? People are killed because of lies. Lives are ruined. Oh wait, it would be ridiculous to hold you to that standard. 

[TXSooner518 2438]

14 minutes ago, RPM said:

1) So even DWI offenders are given a second chance.

2) WTF does cash bond have to do with CDL v non-CDL?

3) See 2

4) So you want to hold CDL drivers to a professional standard 24/7? Let's apply that to your job. You are sworn to tell the truth in court. If you don't, you go to jail. Ever tell a lie outside the courtroom? Even a teeny little white lie? People are killed because of lies. Lives are ruined. Oh wait, it would be ridiculous to hold you to that standard. 

Dude what are you honestly on about?  

1) What do you mean about second chance? Is it your opinion that a CDL holder doesn't "get a second chance"?  You actually can't have deferred adjudication for DWI either, so if you are saying CDL holders don't "get a second chance", then neither do DWI offenders.

2&3) I am giving examples of other situations where your previous behavior is legally held to make you more likely to violate in the future and your legal consequences reflect that. I explicitly explained that in the post, I didn't think it was exceptionally complicated. You were saying it's unfair to presume that CDL holders are a greater risk in the future based on past behaviors, and I was pointing out that is not at all unique in criminal law. 

4) I am held to a professional standard 24/7.  As I already posted in this exact thread, if I had decided to cheat on my taxes after I won my big poker tourney, and gotten convicted, I would have lost my law license. For something I did outside the courtroom, outside of the scope of any of my professional responsibilities. Because my moral turpitude would make it more likely that I would behave unethically in a professional capacity.  Literally exactly like a CDL holder!!

Also your example sucks because it isn't illegal to lie, it's illegal to lie under oath. I don't walk around under oath 24/7. 

[RPM 26322]

2 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

I don't walk around under oath 24/7. 

I don't drive 80,000 lb CDL vehicles 24/7.

[TXSooner518 2438]

1 minute ago, RPM said:

I don't drive 80,000 lb CDL vehicles 24/7.

Reasonable enough, but I'll be looking for the study that shows that lying to my fiancee about liking dinner or that I had 2 cocktails instead of 4 makes me more likely to commit perjury.  They exist regarding driving.

[RPM 26322]

1 minute ago, TXSooner518 said:

Reasonable enough, but I'll be looking for the study that shows that lying to my fiancee about liking dinner or that I had 2 cocktails instead of 4 makes me more likely to commit perjury.  They exist regarding driving.

It will be just as accurate as your driving study. If you'd lie to your fiancee, you'd lie to a judge. 

[TXSooner518 2438]

3 minutes ago, RPM said:

It will be just as accurate as your driving study. If you'd lie to your fiancee, you'd lie to a judge. 

LOL OK. I mean, the studies exist, man. If you really are a CDL holder, I will guarantee you don't have driving habits that exist only in one vehicle (other than things you literally can't do in the other vehicle, such as "oh I rest my elbow on my car's console and there isn't one in the truck).  I didn't write the studies or the laws. I just try to understand the laws and make sure the judges I am responsible for follow them. 

The law also understands the difference between white lies that everyone does and lying under oath or committing acts of moral turpitude. I noticed you just ignored that I personally could have lost my livelihood for doing something completely unrelated to my profession. Other people might have gotten away with it, but I had to make the choice that made sense, given my profession. Just like CDL holders, judges, etc., etc., etc.

[RPM 26322]

6 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

I noticed you just ignored that I personally could have lost my livelihood for doing something completely unrelated to my profession. Other people might have gotten away with it, but I had to make the choice that made sense, given my profession. Just like CDL holders, judges, etc., etc., etc.

I didn't "just ignore it" and it's just as related to your profession as a CDL driver.  The point is (and you know this) you shouldn't hold someone to a professional standard when they are not at work. It's apples and oranges.

[RPM 26322]

 

14 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

If you really are a CDL holder

For the record, I have a CDL and have had a commercial license since I was 17 (which was a long f-ing time ago). I don't drive trucks for a living anymore, but I hold on to it because every now and then I have to for farm stuff.

[TXSooner518 2438]

47 minutes ago, RPM said:

 

For the record, I have a CDL and have had a commercial license since I was 17 (which was a long f-ing time ago). I don't drive trucks for a living anymore, but I hold on to it because every now and then I have to for farm stuff.

You don't qualify for the farm exemption?  The law definitely sucks the most for people like you who don't usually drive CMVs. 

FWIW, I always include in my classes the true statement that CDL drivers are, mile for mile, the safest group of drivers on the road. The restrictions are to weed out the 5% of people who simply have no business being CDL holders so they can find another profession before they kill themselves (or more likely) someone else. 

[RPM 26322]

2 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

You don't qualify for the farm exemption?  The law definitely sucks the most for people like you who don't usually drive CMVs. 

I have the farm exemption. All that does is exempt me from the DOT health card regulation, otherwise it's the same as a regular CDL. Now do you see why I'm upset?