Media/Hollywood's anti-Christian campaign

[mdmost 43011]

I guess according to Monster, all those Christian nations better watch out for the old U S of A then because we're coming to kill them!

[RomaVicta 29946]

People tend to see what they're looking for.

[Rimbo 26015]

5 hours ago, Asithappens said:

If that is really what you were taught then your church wasn't even Christian.

Sounds like Nestorian Christianity, actually. But then, that's why both Rome and Eastern Orthodox considered it to be heretical at the Council of Ephesus in ... consults Wikipedia ...431 AD.

[Rimbo 26015]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

My understanding is that the Eastern Orthodox Church believes the trinity are three separate entities. They are all equal but Jesus isn't God. He was begotten by God. They'll give you some theological doublespeak about "The Word" being eternal and other bizarre made up logic to justify whatever shit it is they believe. So it can be confusing. But I don't think they subscribe to the Doctrine of the Trinity that the Western churches do where the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the same identical entity. 

No, it's not Eastern Orthodox, but Church of the East, that believed that, because of the influence of Nestorianism. See above.

[Asithappens 974]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He could be Christian, just not Southern Baptist. He could be Eastern Orthodox. 

Not with those views, he couldn't. 

Or least not a good one.

[Anastasis 23480]

14 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Sounds like Nestorian Christianity, actually.

Still going with adoptionism, but Buck does bring mix some Nestorian positioning into his post. 

[elfenix 34330]

i can see where one could confuse the terms 'eastern orthodox' and 'oriental orthodox'

[Anastasis 23480]

3 minutes ago, elfenix said:

i can see where one could confuse the terms 'eastern orthodox' and 'oriental orthodox'

 

[Dbeasy 15074]

This whole thing is nothing more than the Silver Toyota Corolla effect. As soon as you think about buying a car, or actually buy one, you suddenly notice how many people have the same color and model of car as what you bought, even though it hasn’t changed from before you noticing it. STC effect.

[Foosters 17858]

12 hours ago, Monster said:

That was a fun and informative tangent.  I wanted to add a few things to add to the original conversation.... 

 

 

 

Consider the late 1990’s early 2000’s.  Growing up during this time, my TV told me to distrust Muslims.  All of the major networks agreed, Muslims want to kill me and my family.  And I have to admit, as a young adult, I was influenced by the TV and started to fear these ‘dangerous people’ who I’d never met.  My hillbilly brethren started to openly hate Muslims, despite having never met one.  When we eventually went to war, destabilizing Muslim countries, killing or arresting their leaders, we did so with full approval of my friends and neighbors and the rest of the American people…who’d been watching those same anti-Muslim TV shows. 

 

And now my TV is telling me I should distrust Christians.  I’m being told they are detestable, deplorable, racist villains who deserve ridicule and hate.  I can see from your responses, that, once again, many of those around me agree with the TV's message.  And I wonder, where are we going with this? 

Images from 'Happy-season 2'  - Nuns being blown up in a park, accompanied by comical music.   

 

Look man, if Jack Bauer chasing down Muslims on a fictional TV show is responsible for you and everyone you know fully supporting the invasion of another country, then we cant help you.

[wildcat09 29357]

12 hours ago, Monster said:

That was a fun and informative tangent.  I wanted to add a few things to add to the original conversation.... 

 

 

 

Consider the late 1990’s early 2000’s.  Growing up during this time, my TV told me to distrust Muslims.  All of the major networks agreed, Muslims want to kill me and my family.  And I have to admit, as a young adult, I was influenced by the TV and started to fear these ‘dangerous people’ who I’d never met.  My hillbilly brethren started to openly hate Muslims, despite having never met one.  When we eventually went to war, destabilizing Muslim countries, killing or arresting their leaders, we did so with full approval of my friends and neighbors and the rest of the American people…who’d been watching those same anti-Muslim TV shows. 

 

And now my TV is telling me I should distrust Christians.  I’m being told they are detestable, deplorable, racist villains who deserve ridicule and hate.  I can see from your responses, that, once again, many of those around me agree with the TV's message.  And I wonder, where are we going with this? 

Images from 'Happy-season 2'  - Nuns being blown up in a park, accompanied by comical music.   

 

This little shit is going to troll us into feeding him to lions.

[WhatTheBuck 28793]

12 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

they believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit existing as three separate persons but being one entity-  God.  no one person begat another.  all the divine characteristics of one person are identical to the other persons.  

I had to go refresh my memory. I knew the takes on the Trinity are different between east and west but it's been so long since I studied this stuff. (Hey, it may be true that I've forgotten more about Christianity than some Christians will ever know!) But yeah, the differences are much more subtle. Maybe I was confusing the Eastern Orthodox Church with the Mormons. It's kind of funny, a few years ago I asked a friend who attends the Greek Orthodox Church to find out what his church's stance on the Trinity was but he never got back to me. I should check with him and see if he ever looked into that. 

I don't know if my friend's Greek Orthodox Church is part of the Eastern Orthodox Church or not. I would guess not but I really have no idea. I was just curious. I did find this graphic illustrating the difference between the Eastern Orthodox and the Western conceptions of the Trinity:

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by WhatTheBuck

[Brisketexan 105170]

Being part coonass, I’m definitely a believer in the trinity.

[gsoda3 3272]

that's a mighty small batch of whatever it's gonna be.

[Anastasis 23480]

15 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I had to go refresh my memory. I knew the takes on the Trinity are different between east and west but it's been so long since I studied this stuff. (Hey, it may be true that I've forgotten more about Christianity than some Christians will ever know!) But yeah, the differences are much more subtle. Maybe I was confusing the Eastern Orthodox Church with the Mormons. It's kind of funny, a few years ago I asked a friend who attends the Greek Orthodox Church to find out what his church's stance on the Trinity was but he never got back to me. I should check with him and see if he ever looked into that. 

I don't know if my friend's Greek Orthodox Church is part of the Eastern Orthodox Church or not. I would guess not but I really have no idea. I was just curious. I did find this graphic illustrating the difference between the Eastern Orthodox and the Western conceptions of the Trinity:

 

 

 

The Filioque is really a separate issue from what has been discussed. It was included in the West to address Spanish Arian influences that challenged the common Latin and Byzantine Christological understanding. The Byzantines argued that its inclusion in the creed was inappropriate on theological terms, but the real reason for the push back was political. It was a Byzantine vs. Latin pissing match over Papal authority.   

Edited April 4, 2019 by Anastasis

[Chad Fuck 17698]

I'm going to just drop a plug here for the History of Byzantium podcast, because it goes into these early church issues in some detail.  Very interesting power plays, and that's pretty much all it was.  A small group of true believers on each side, and the Emperor using one sect or the other to support their political needs.  Sometimes religious belief underlay the Emperor's sway to one side or another, but mostly it was political expediency.

 

[Monster 219]

On 4/3/2019 at 12:14 PM, Dbeasy said:

This whole thing is nothing more than the Silver Toyota Corolla effect. As soon as you think about buying a car, or actually buy one, you suddenly notice how many people have the same color and model of car as what you bought, even though it hasn’t changed from before you noticing it. STC effect.

This is completely, 100% true. 

These 'Silver Corollas' have been here for a while now, doing what silver corollas do.  I just didn't notice.  I think I would gone my entire life without noticing silver corollas, if they hadn't begun to target people I care about, instead of people I've never met, with increasingly direct and divisive and ubiquitous messaging.  At this point, I feel that my attention is being demanded.  Silver corollas want me to see them.  They want me to know who controls the roads.    So, you know...now I see them.

For the sake of BOTH silver corollas and oblivious schmucks like me, I do hope these STC's will dial back the subversive rhetoric a notch or five.   Otherwise other oblivious schmucks might also start to notice what's going on.   And history has more than one example of how that turns out.  

Anyway.  Here's my plea for less religious and political antagonism in movies and tv shows.  

Edited April 5, 2019 by Monster

[sidis 9832]

jesus fucking christ.

[Chuckie Finster 22702]

7 hours ago, Monster said:

This is completely, 100% true. 

These 'Silver Corollas' have been here for a while now, doing what silver corollas do.  I just didn't notice.  I think I would gone my entire life without noticing silver corollas, if they hadn't begun to target people I care about, instead of people I've never met, with increasingly direct and divisive and ubiquitous messaging.  At this point, I feel that my attention is being demanded.  Silver corollas want me to see them.  They want me to know who controls the roads.    So, you know...now I see them.

For the sake of BOTH silver corollas and oblivious schmucks like me, I do hope these STC's will dial back the subversive rhetoric a notch or five.   Otherwise other oblivious schmucks might also start to notice what's going on.   And history has more than one example of how that turns out.  

Anyway.  Here's my plea for less religious and political antagonism in movies and tv shows.  

The primetime Sunday night show on America's most watched network is called "God Friended Me."

Edited April 5, 2019 by Chuckie Finster

[Guest Lobo]

^

you know, if I can laugh and pray in ninety minutes...that’s money well spent. 

[elfenix 34330]

2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The primetime Sunday night show on America's most watched network is called "God Friended Me."

ever noticed that 'ded' is circled in the phone screen in the commercials?

[Asithappens 974]

3 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The primetime Sunday night show on America's most watched network is called "God Friended Me."

I can see the attachment one may have for a loving, bff god and all, but god wants you to fear him. Not be his best buddie. 

I mean, that's just biblical stuff and I could be wrong.

[Monster 219]

8 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The primetime Sunday night show on America's most watched network is called "God Friended Me."

I haven't seen that show.  Do they blow up Rabbis or Clerics and then mock their holidays?  Does the show have an evil Muslim or Jewish character conspicuous adorned with religious symbols to help us identify his religion as he murders innocent people in cold blood?   Or is it a different kind of show?   Like a family oriented show?   

What is it about 'God Friended Me' that bothers you?  

Edited April 5, 2019 by Monster

[Brandywine 1316]

25 minutes ago, Monster said:

I haven't seen that show.  Do they blow up Rabbis or Clerics and then mock their holidays?  Does the show have an evil Muslim or Jewish character conspicuous adorned with religious symbols to help us identify his religion as he murders innocent people in cold blood?   Or is it a different kind of show?   Like a family oriented show?   

What is it about 'God Friended Me' that bothers you?  

I love God Friended Me. Good show but I can see how some wouldn’t like it, and it may not be the so called religious aspect. It’s just corny and kind of syrupy at times. But, it’s good to have a show like that on tv. Gives a positive message. 

[Chuckie Finster 22702]

I haven't seen that show.  Do they blow up Rabbis or Clerics and then mock their holidays?  Does the show have an evil Muslim or Jewish character conspicuous adorned with religious symbols to help us identify his religion as he murders innocent people in cold blood?   Or is it a different kind of show?   Like a family oriented show?   
What is it about 'God Friended Me' that bothers you?  

Nothing bothers me about it. Just pointing out that while you post obscure references to shows nobody has ever heard of, there’s an actual show in arguably the most desired time slot on the most watched network that is damn near Christian propaganda. Again, I have no problem with it, but stop acting like your life is so hard.

[Brisketexan 105170]

Nothing bothers me about it. Just pointing out that while you post obscure references to shows nobody has ever heard of, there’s an actual show in arguably the most desired time slot on the most watched network that is damn near Christian propaganda. Again, I have no problem with it, but stop acting like your life is so hard.

Meh. American Christians long so much for the days when they were truly persecuted and martyred.

Would be cooler if they longed for the days when they weren’t cruel dicks and actually followed Christ.

Oh well.

[Anastasis 23480]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Meh. American Christians long so much for the days when they were truly persecuted and martyred.

Would be cooler if they longed for the days when they weren’t cruel dicks and actually followed Christ.

Oh well.

American Christians couldn't name three real christian martyrs if they actually tried. Stephen who?

[mdmost 43011]

When are American Christians going to get a fair shake in this country?

[Brisketexan 105170]

American Christians couldn't name three real christian martyrs if they actually tried. Stephen who?

I love Stephen. He rocks.

[Harvard Man 9]

Where are the tits on the major networks! I have yet to see a boob let alone any full frontals and it's 2019 (of the 21st Century!)

Thanks a lot Christianity! Thanks a lot all religions (except Satanism)!

I saw American Horror Story and the Anti Christ was portrayed as bad. And that Exorcist and Omen etc certainly wasn't flattering to the devil either was it.

The only TV I can watch is Lucifer and South Park. And there are no boobs there either.

Discrimination!

[Continental Op 3934]

*Nazis march through the streets chanting "The Jews will not replace us"*

Monster:  THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE SAY AND DO THINGS I DON'T LIKE IN SCRIPTED ENTERTAINMENT!!!!!

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Anastasis said:

American Christians couldn't name three real christian martyrs if they actually tried. Stephen who?

It's Tebow you fucktwittle...

 

 

[Anastasis 23480]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I love Stephen. He rocks.

[workswithseed 2109]

 

[Guest Lobo]

Also, 'Murica needs more television programming in the original Aramaic.  I want the pure, untainted message of Jesus.  

[Monster 219]

On 4/3/2019 at 10:58 AM, mdmost said:

I guess according to Monster, all those Christian nations better watch out for the old U S of A then because we're coming to kill them!

That'd be  crazy right?

Did you know, there are people living today that were alive when the Bolsheviks overthrew the Russian Tsar and immediately went around scalping and beheading priests in their own country?  Lenin (not his real name), Marx (not his real name), and Trotsky (not his real name), three figureheads of this revolution, were not too fond of Christians--Marx being the most vitriolic about his hatred of Christianity. 

Here’s an quick excerpt from Wikipedia about the anti-Christian campaign in Russia 100 years ago. 

“The Red Army massacred large numbers of clergy and believers often on grounds of alleged support for the Whites. (White army = Tsar’s army.  Red army=Bolshevik army)

…In Voronezh, seven nuns who had prayed for a White victory were reportedly boiled in a cauldron of tar.  (There's a long list of these executions on Wikipedia)

…Yemelyan Yaroslavsky, (real name Minei Israilevich Gubelman) who was a participant in these killings, justified the campaign by claiming that the church was fighting against them."

Praying is a kind of ‘fighting’ I guess.

imgur

This is Mr. Gubelman.  Wikipedia says he was the editor of the atheist satirical journal “The Godless” and leader of the League of Militant Godless.  

[Bojack 2081]

Monster, stop shit-posting in the Theology thread. 

[BrickHorn 18255]

19 hours ago, Lobo said:

Also, 'Murica needs more television programming in the original Aramaic.  I want the pure, untainted message of Jesus.  

I’m still annoyed the disciples didn’t write the Bible in their native language.  But then maybe God is Greek.

[Asithappens 974]

37 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I’m still annoyed the disciples didn’t write the Bible in their native language.  But then maybe God is Greek.

What are you talking about?

Reminds me of the great quote: If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it ought to be good enough for the children of Texas.

[Nivek 16946]

[/url]
This is Mr. Gubelman.  Wikipedia says he was the editor of the atheist satirical journal “The Godless” and leader of the League of Militant Godless.  

I am sure those Christians were just sitting in their churches and praying.

[Asithappens 974]

12 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I am sure those Christians were just sitting in their churches and praying.

And thinking. Thoughts and prayers.

[BrickHorn 18255]

54 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

What are you talking about?

Reminds me of the great quote: If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it ought to be good enough for the children of Texas.

The NT was written in a Greek.  And what’s more, the OT source material for the NT was not the Hebrew Torah but was instead the Greek-language Septuagint.  

Kinda weird that a bunch of Aramaic-speaking Jews would read and write exclusively in Greek, right?  Oh well.  “God” works in mysterious ways, I guess!

Edited April 7, 2019 by BrickHorn

[BrickHorn 18255]

1 minute ago, Axiom of Choice said:

"The New Testament Gospels and Epistles were only part of a Hellenistic Jewish culture in the Roman Empire...and Greek was spoken by more Jews than Hebrew."

"After Alexander, Palestine was ruled by the Ptolemies and the Seleucids for almost two hundred years. Jewish culture was heavily influenced by Hellenistic culture, and Koine Greek was used not only for international communication, but also as the first language of many Jews."

They would read and write in primarily in koine Greek because they knew it and because it was the lingua franca of the day.  I work with many internationals who learned English as a 2nd or 3rd language, but all of their published writings are in English.  Kinda weird that a bunch of romance language speaking Europeans would read and write exclusively in English, right?  There must be a grand conspiracy. 

There’s no grand conspiracy.  Christianity is a pagan myth that got re/misinterpreted, mostly innocently.  Shit happens.  But that’s no reason to keep fooling yourself to the present day.

[Anastasis 23480]

Most serious scholars, appreciating the linguistic complexities of the Levant at the time of Christ, know that the Evangelists reserved their use of Aramaic for their twitter feeds.  

Edited April 7, 2019 by Anastasis

[BrickHorn 18255]

Just now, Axiom of Choice said:

Your argument was based on easily disproved misconception & falsehood.  It had nothing to do with whether Christianity was a pagan myth nor my personal beliefs; these things are not relevant to your original claim.  

You didn’t disprove anything.  You offered a far-fetched explanation for a fact that is difficult to reconcile with the myth that at least some books of the NT written by Jesus’s followers, who were simple Jewish fishermen and very unlikely to be literate at all (much less in multiple languages).  Your solution is simply improbable; the disciples are not at all analogous to modern international scholars.  That’s frankly stupid.  

But keep piling improbable on implausible. If you’re that desperate to believe a fairy tale, that’s your business.

[Anastasis 23480]

 

17 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

the myth that at least some books of the NT written by Jesus’s followers, who were simple Jewish fishermen and very unlikely to be literate at all

[BrickHorn 18255]

You’re making my point for me, Axiom.  Neither Paul nor Luke were disciples.  They didn’t know Jesus, didn’t witness his life, and do not claim to have.  And Matthew, the disciple, didn’t write a gospel.  The gospel that now bears his name originally did not.  It was only attributed to him sometime during the second century.

I don’t dispute that the NT was written by someone.  I just point out that the authors (a) never met Jesus and (b) read the OT and wrote the NT in Greek.  

These were not witnesses to Jesus’s ministry documenting his life.  They were educated folks creating a mythology.  

Edited April 8, 2019 by BrickHorn

[Harvard Man 9]

 

[JBJ 3663]

Josephus' surviving works are also exclusively Greek even though he originally wrote them in Aramaic.

[Brisketexan 105170]

Josephus' surviving works are also exclusively Greek even though he originally wrote them in Aramaic.

Say, Josephus!

Say, motherfucker!