Fake tits, cold beer and biker shootouts, get them at the Waco Twin Peaks

[GringoSalado 1651]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

We have identified facts that support the conclusion of a pervasive culture among cops of protecting their own, even when their own has engaged in serious criminality.  It's not defamation if it's true.

You said lawyers are the same, yet you identify no facts to support that assertion.  It is defamation when it's false.  And you've done nothing to show the veracity of your statements.

So "lol" all you what, but you're showing your ass.

As has been pointed out, Lawyers have plenty of incentive to self, uh, police that cops lack.

 

I took the comparison to refer to how we all bitch about attorneys but do understand not all are bad. But we have people here making that argument about cops and not in a hyperbolic manner.

 

Blaming all cops, as individuals, is childish and useless. If it is true that all cops are morally flawed then we have some kind of selection or training issue to address. Point being if you want ethical behavior you need institutions (like the Bar) and culture (like the ethos of reporting corruot lawyers and the associated process of revoking their license) to reinforce that.

 

So posts by attorneys defending their profession in this thread about a bunch of guys getting railroaded by attorneys are ironic but also miss the point.

Edited December 16, 2019 by GringoSalado

[Brisketexan 105142]

Just now, El Diablo said:

My only point, which started this round of lawyer bashing, was that painting with a broad brush if flawed and lazy. The defensive responses seem to confirm that, in spite of a good portion of the population feeling that lawyers are slimy, perhaps even scum. <- same word that was used to describe all cops.

What I find more amusing about Rembrandt's take here is that if one were to suggest to him that all Mooslims were murderous cave dwellers he'd be offended. How one can hold the one opinion and not respect the other is truly baffling to me. It's the pot calling the kettle blacker.

Muslims.  A PERFECT additional example, creating CONTRAST.

A muslim commits a terrorist act, and countless muslims, including a shitload of muslim leaders, call it out as wrong.

Again....ALL WE ARE ASKING is that cops do the same.  That's right, I want to hold cops up to the [checks notes] lofty standards of [checks notes again, to be sure] muslim leaders.

This isn't about "the words used to describe" a profession.  It's about the actual, factual record of the profession.  The facts show that lawyers do NOT "circle the wagons" and "back the wingtip shoes" when one of their own is cited for misconduct.  So, like, the OPPOSITE of what cops do.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

2 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

My only point, which started this round of lawyer bashing, was that painting with a broad brush if flawed and lazy. The defensive responses seem to confirm that, in spite of a good portion of the population feeling that lawyers are slimy, perhaps even scum. <- same word that was used to describe all cops.

What I find more amusing about Rembrandt's take here is that if one were to suggest to him that all Mooslims were murderous cave dwellers he'd be offended. How one can hold the one opinion and not respect the other is truly baffling to me. It's the pot calling the kettle blacker.

When you have such a large canvas, a broad brush is needed.

2 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

As has been pointed out, Lawyers have plenty of incentive to self, uh, police that cops lack.

 

I took the comparison to refer to how we all bitch about attorneys but do understand not all are bad. But we have people here making that argument about cops and not in a hyperbolic manner.

 

Blaming all cops, as individuals, is childish and useless. If it is true that all cops are morally flawed then we have some kind of selection or training issue to address. Point being if you want ethical behavior you need institutions (like the Bar) and culture (like the ethos of reporting corruot lawyers and the associated process of revoking their license) to reinforce that.

 

So posts by attorneys defend their profession in this thread about a bunch of guys getting railroaded by attorneys are ironic but also miss the point.

And I submit that the evidence reflects that they are.  And, as a result, I acknowledge that you are correct that we have serious selection and training issues that need to be addressed.

In fact, I cannot fathom how any objective observed would look at the evidence and conclude that police departments in this country don't have serious selection/training issues that desperately need to be addressed.

[Armybrat 40847]

We all wish for that, but your contention that ALL cops are corrupt and cover for bad cops is not true.

As for my equivalence comment, that was deliberate to poke the bear, so to speak, and it certainly did. Of course I know most attorneys are good people. Just as I know most Catholic priests are good, devout Christians. 😊

[Brisketexan 105142]

3 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

Blaming all cops, as individuals, is childish and useless. If it is true that all cops are morally flawed then we have some kind of selection or training issue to address.

We 100% do.  Both are an issue.  I think training is the most dramatic one.  LEO's are indoctrinated into a "brotherhood of the badge, us against the world, always back your brother in blue" attitude from day one.  It's basic human programming.  And it has to stop, because it is anathema to their actual mission.

[GringoSalado 1651]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

When you have such a large canvas, a broad brush is needed.

And I submit that the evidence reflects that they are.  And, as a result, I acknowledge that you are correct that we have serious selection and training issues that need to be addressed.

In fact, I cannot fathom how any objective observed would look at the evidence and conclude that police departments in this country don't have serious selection/training issues that desperately need to be addressed.

When you assert that literally 100% are bad it ruins  your argument. If you really believe that then keep it to yourself. 

[Ghost of LL 15531]

2 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

We all wish for that, but your contention that ALL cops are corrupt and cover for bad cops is not true.

As for my equivalence comment, that was deliberate to poke the bear, so to speak, and it certainly did. Of course I know most attorneys are good people. Just as I know most Catholic priests are good, devout Christians. 😊

Ok, so you're just an aged troll.  That's good to know.

[Fuck Tim Beck 3816]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We 100% do.  Both are an issue.  I think training is the most dramatic one.  LEO's are indoctrinated into a "brotherhood of the badge, us against the world, always back your brother in blue" attitude from day one.  It's basic human programming.  And it has to stop, because it is anathema to their actual mission.

Add to this that now-a-days they are taught that they are "at war" and "going into battle". And the government gives them all the free military weapons to do it. Watch any episode

of Cops or Live PD and listen to the verbage. 

[Brisketexan 105142]

Just now, GringoSalado said:

When you assert that literally 100% are bad it ruins  your argument. If you really believe that then keep it to yourself. 

Fine.  How about this amendment: "All but a handful of cops are bad, because all but a handful will cover up misconduct by a fellow officer."  So, we'll give you the outlier, the handful.  Which I will suggest is a statistically insignificant number.  But if we're arguing about math -- "you said ALL...and I can find ONE cop who stood strong one time!," then fine, let's get over that hurdle.  BUT....note what GOLL said...follow up on the career of those "good cops."  See how many of them still have a career in law enforcement after a few years, or whether they got drummed/hazed out of the profession for violating the code.

[Armybrat 40847]

That’s not the attitude the cops in my family have, nor have they ever said anything similar.

There were four LEOs in my extended family.... two still on duty (one a highway patrolman in Nebraska, another a K9 officer in the Dallas area), one just retired after 35 years service in the Hill Country, and one is deceased (she committed suicide with her service pistol after being diagnosed with a debilitating disease that would have forced her medical retirement.

[Armybrat 40847]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Ok, so you're just an aged troll.  That's good to know.

Now your feelings are hurt and you are reduced to calling names. Ok.

[Brisketexan 105142]

Just now, Armybrat said:

That’s not the attitude the cops in my family have, nor have they ever said anything similar.

 

With all due respect, it's not what they say around you.  It's what they actually DO when faced with a bad/crooked brother officer.

[hayden_horn 11362]

4 minutes ago, Fuck Tim Beck said:

Add to this that now-a-days they are taught that they are "at war" and "going into battle". And the government gives them all the free military weapons to do it. Watch any episode

of Cops or Live PD and listen to the verbage. 

stay frosty out there

[Armybrat 40847]

And how do you know what they do?

[Armybrat 40847]

Say, I’m having a tough time keeping up with all the responses. My Hunting & pecking typing what with all the notification bleeps on this iPad gadget is causing me to fall behind and get things out of order.

 

[Brisketexan 105142]

Just now, Armybrat said:

And how do you know what they do?

Seriously?  Neither you nor I know what one of them did that time (for example) they saw a colleague beat the crap out of a suspect.  Did they report it to command?  Or did they look the other way?

Come on.  You know what path is VASTLY more likely.  The "blue wall of silence" isn't something I made up on this board.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

7 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Now your feelings are hurt and you are reduced to calling names. Ok.

You're the one who just admitted to trolling.  It's not "name-calling" to acknowledge a person's confession.

[Armybrat 40847]

Just now, Ghost of LL said:

You're the one who just admitted to trolling.  It's not "name-calling" to acknowledge a person's confession.

Well counselor, you really do have a point there. Guilty as charged.

[Armybrat 40847]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Seriously?  Neither you nor I know what one of them did that time (for example) they saw a colleague beat the crap out of a suspect.  Did they report it to command?  Or did they look the other way?

Come on.  You know what path is VASTLY more likely.  The "blue wall of silence" isn't something I made up on this board.

I know my relatives, you don’t.

[HOOKEM4 5037]

I have been assaulted one time in my life. Want to take a guess what profession they were in? I was 16, they were a grown ass man. I said my yes sir, and fully complied. It didnt help other than I didnt get raped or murdered.

Fuck the scum.

[Brisketexan 105142]

1 minute ago, Armybrat said:

I know my relatives, you don’t.

Yes.  Of course.  And every police officer is someone's relative.  They are all good people (does "he was a good kid!" ring a bell?)  But you don't know what they do when they put on that uniform.  You know the code they follow.  You know that code is ingrained in every police force in the country, more deeply than anything else.  But your relatives, well, THEY are the ones who break that code.

Nope.  The odds are overwhelmingly the other way.

Evil madmen have happily bounced their grandchildren on their knee.  How a person is around family says little about the person they are when they put on the uniform.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

2 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I know my relatives, you don’t.

Respectfully, I'm sure Al Capone's mom thought that her sweet boy was just being persecuted by that awful Eliot Ness and those dreadful revenuers.

The point being is that you're not an objective witness.  As someone who has more than one criminal in the family, the family is usually the last one to suspect and the very last one to believe.

Rightly so--that's part of the point of family.

 

[Armybrat 40847]

Sorry guys, but you are dishing out absolutes.

But keep up the fight against bad cops and bad policies. I have always been in agreement there.

[Brisketexan 105142]

5 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Sorry guys, but you are dishing out absolutes.

But keep up the fight against bad cops and bad policies. I have always been in agreement there.

Actually, to make you happy, I disclaimed my 100% allegation.  I'm sure there's a statistically insignificant handful of good cops out there.  So, maybe it's just 99%.  And I'm sure your family is among the 1% good ones, who report misconduct.  Just like everyone else's family is like that, too.

[Armybrat 40847]

Your sarcasm is duly noted.

[Armybrat 40847]

14 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Respectfully, I'm sure Al Capone's mom thought that her sweet boy was just being persecuted by that awful Eliot Ness and those dreadful revenuers.

The point being is that you're not an objective witness.  As someone who has more than one criminal in the family, the family is usually the last one to suspect and the very last one to believe.

Rightly so--that's part of the point of family.

 

There are two convicted criminals in my extended family, so I am under no such illusions.

[El Diablo 4232]

46 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Muslims.  A PERFECT additional example, creating CONTRAST.

A muslim commits a terrorist act, and countless muslims, including a shitload of muslim leaders, call it out as wrong.

Again....ALL WE ARE ASKING is that cops do the same.  That's right, I want to hold cops up to the [checks notes] lofty standards of [checks notes again, to be sure] muslim leaders.

This isn't about "the words used to describe" a profession.  It's about the actual, factual record of the profession.  The facts show that lawyers do NOT "circle the wagons" and "back the wingtip shoes" when one of their own is cited for misconduct.  So, like, the OPPOSITE of what cops do.

This tells me that you're more in tune with the Muslim leadership than a large percentage of Americans. Your view is not widely held that Muslim leadership widely and loudly denounces the murderous behavior of a significant number of their members.

 Any particular reason that might be so? 

[Brisketexan 105142]

This tells me that you're more in tune with the Muslim leadership than a large percentage of Americans. Your view is not widely held that Muslim leadership widely and loudly denounces the murderous behavior of a significant number of their members.
 Any particular reason that might be so? 

I’m literate?

[Texas_Rocks 346]

The most morally sound cop on any large police force will eventually have to overlook actionable infractions committed by less morally correct cops...that is at least if they want to keep their job and not have to worry about getting slow played when calling for backup. And a ton of cops don’t want to work anywhere near another cop that might “snitch” them out for some simple human rights violations...or worse.

[tbone_ 14123]

This is a very productive thread.

[immortal13 4059]

2 hours ago, Texas_Rocks said:

The most morally sound cop on any large police force will eventually have to overlook actionable infractions committed by less morally correct cops...that is at least if they want to keep their job and not have to worry about getting slow played when calling for backup. And a ton of cops don’t want to work anywhere near another cop that might “snitch” them out for some simple human rights violations...or worse.

This is sound logic. That's why bodycams need to be mandatory and required to ALWAYS be recording, uploaded to a cloud and all video controlled by an independent agency. A pipe dream I know....

[Guest Lobo]

50 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

This is sound logic. That's why bodycams need to be mandatory and required to ALWAYS be recording, uploaded to a cloud and all video controlled by an independent agency. A pipe dream I know....

You think police can make it home to their families at night with their bodycams uploading to the cloud?  It's laborious software bullshit like that which keeps them from making it home alive at the end of a shift.  You know how many cops are murdered each day in this country while clicking "accept" on a terms of use screen on their bodycams.  It's in the millions.  

[Hate 20108]

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

This is a very productive thread.

Right?  What's better than arguing with people about making sweeping generalizations about something who then decry people that make sweeping generalizations about people? 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Hate

[workswithseed 2108]

12 minutes ago, Hate said:

Right?  What's better than arguing with people about making sweeping generalizations about something who then decry people that make sweeping generalizations about people? 

It's like fighting fire with fire, someone might get burned.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

3 hours ago, Texas_Rocks said:

The most morally sound cop on any large police force will eventually have to overlook actionable infractions committed by less morally correct cops...that is at least if they want to keep their job and not have to worry about getting slow played when calling for backup. And a ton of cops don’t want to work anywhere near another cop that might “snitch” them out for some simple human rights violations...or worse.

This is true, but there are a lot of police officers who only have like four other officers in their town. Chances are much smaller then. And often, when bad behavior happens or gets reported, the DA is just as complicit in sweeping it under the rug.

[El Diablo 4232]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I’m literate?

Well I don't know about all that now, lol. Selective might be better description. 

[GringoSalado 1651]

7 hours ago, El Diablo said:

This tells me that you're more in tune with the Muslim leadership than a large percentage of Americans. Your view is not widely held that Muslim leadership widely and loudly denounces the murderous behavior of a significant number of their members.

 Any particular reason that might be so? 

I've also missed these countless denunciations.

 

 

 

[GringoSalado 1651]

Can we say we've seen countless denunciations of Abel Reyna by others of his ilk? Is that sorry excuse of a human still fucking people over somewhere in the name of lawyering?

Edited December 17, 2019 by GringoSalado
able abel

[Homercles 10205]

Was there any full on report released?  My assumption has always been that 99% of the gunshot wounds were caused by police, and I’ve been curious if anyone actually had evidence of a 1%’er actually firing a weapon.  

[El Diablo 4232]

17 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Was there any full on report released?  My assumption has always been that 99% of the gunshot wounds were caused by police, and I’ve been curious if anyone actually had evidence of a 1%’er actually firing a weapon.  

I've never heard of any report. I think there's a number of legal actions pending against the county/local LEOs so it wouldn't surprise me if everything regarding the events that day are being held closely by those who control the information.  

[Armybrat 40847]

53 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Was there any full on report released?  My assumption has always been that 99% of the gunshot wounds were caused by police, and I’ve been curious if anyone actually had evidence of a 1%’er actually firing a weapon.  

I thought that the initial rumble inside the restaurant was a gang stabbing in a restroom, followed by a biker outside on a truck bed shooting at scattering people, then in the ensuing “furtive movements” the cop snipers laying in wait began their turkey shoot.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Armybrat

[G650 14256]

I actually forgot what thread this was for the last couple pages till I got to the end. Good job people.

[Hate 20108]

It's for infallible lawyers who detest people who generalize to generalize about the infinitely fallible police force.  

[El Diablo 4232]

8 minutes ago, Hate said:

It's for infallible lawyers who detest people who generalize to generalize about the infinitely fallible police force.  

I believe the preferred nomenclature is "word warlocks", "lawyer" has such a negative connotation.

[SKJ 1311]

On 12/13/2019 at 4:55 PM, El Diablo said:

Wonder if @SKJhas any history with them.

Not really.  Played poker with a few in college.  The ones there were flying the white boy flag pretty hard,  which I thought was odd since that group has latino connections,  but whatever. 

[Homercles 10205]

Bunch of em rolled up to that little bar next to the tracks at Sam Bass / Chisholm Trail in west RR this weekend...was weird seeing more of them there than I recall at ROT last year.  They had a couple dudes hold up traffic at the intersection after the light turned red, so they could all make it through in one go...guess 1%ers ain’t got time to wait.  

[BrazilHorn 6607]

11 hours ago, Homercles said:

Bunch of em rolled up to that little bar next to the tracks at Sam Bass / Chisholm Trail in west RR this weekend...was weird seeing more of them there than I recall at ROT last year.  They had a couple dudes hold up traffic at the intersection after the light turned red, so they could all make it through in one go...guess 1%ers ain’t got time to wait.  

Had an 18 wheeler decided to run over the assclowns holding traffic up that truck driver would be a true hero. 

[AUS-97HORN 11763]

1 minute ago, BrazilHorn said:

Had an 18 wheeler decided to run over the assclowns holding traffic up that truck driver would be a true hero. 

he would be a dead hero....

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

32 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

he would be a dead hero....

I was eating with Lil MaC in San Antonio at La Tuna icehouse about 12 years ago. There was a Bandido in there across the room with his old lady. I pointed him out to my son, who was about 11 then, and kinda whispered "See that guy and those red and yellow colors? He's a Bandido. You don't want to mess with them." And so on. A few minutes later the Bandido got up to go the bathroom. My son was reading the menu when the Bandido came back in, and he stopped at our table, leaned over my son's shoulder, and was all "You should try the roasted lamb sandwich...the combo of lamb, mango chutney and goat cheese is amazing." Something like that. 

[Gil Bang 25959]

"tough" bikers are such pussy-ass bitches.

 

A San Diego County Grand Jury on Monday indicted several members of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club and their supporters for hate crimes in what prosecutors call a racially motivated attack on three Black men in a California neighborhood this summer.

The three victims - ages 19, 20 and 21 - were chased and “viciously” attacked in the San Diego neighborhood of Ocean Beach on June 6, according to the county's district attorney’s office. The three men were repeatedly called a racial slur and told they didn’t belong in the neighborhood, according to prosecutors.

In all, 17 people were indicted in the attack. They all entered pleas of not guilty Monday during their arraignments on an array of charges that carry possible sentences ranging from three years to life in prison.

“In San Diego County, we cannot, and will not tolerate violence and racism of any nature, much less crimes like this hateful, vicious, and unprovoked attack,” said San Diego County District Attorney Summer Stephan in a statement.

Monsters to heros:How popular culture views motorcycle gangs

The three men were attacked “virtually out of nowhere," possibly because one of them spoke to a biker's girlfriend, according to the San Diego County District Attorney's office.

The mob beat one of the victims “all over his body” and knocked him unconscious after sucker-punching him in the head, prosecutors said in a statement. The second man was kicked and punched by multiple attackers. As he lay curled up on the ground, Hells Angels leader Troy Scholder pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the chest, cracking his sternum, according to prosecutors, who added that Scholder “casually” folded up the blade and walked away.

Both of the inj

All 17 people were arrested on Sept. 21. Police officials said they also seized 42 illegal firearms and illicit drugs.

If convicted, they face a range of three years to life in prison. A hearing is scheduled for Nov. 3 and a trial is set for Nov. 14.

The district attorney’s office described the Hells Angels as an “international outlaw” motorcycle gang with an active chapter in San Diego and all across California. They have at least five support or “puppet clubs” in the region, according to the district attorney's office press statement.

More:7,000 attend funeral for Hells Angels leader Ralph 'Sonny' Barger at California speedway

The Hells Angels Motorcycle Club was founded in 1948 in the Fontana and San Bernardino area of Los Angeles County, according the motorcycle club's website. The club expanded to the East Coast in the early 1960s, and eventually internationally beginning with a chapter in Auckland, New Zealand.

ured men survived their injuries.

“These disgusting hate-driven attacks have no place in our community,”  Police Chief David Nisleit said in a statement. “There is no stronger way to condemn this violence than to hold the perpetrators accountable to the fullest force of the law.”

On Sept. 5, a grand jury issued indictments against 14 people for assault likely to cause great bodily injury and for gang affiliation. Eleven were charged with committing a hate crime. Three more defendants were indicted for helping Scholder flee the scene to the Hells Angels Clubhouse in El Cajon.