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Sheetrock Taping & Finishing

dad

By dad
in Can You Help Me With This?

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dad

dad 557

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I've decided to finish the garage walls. The tape was coming off in most places so i've pulled that down. I have the tape, mud, pan, masks,  bucket, sponge, drywall knives. I need to buy a pole sander attachment. I've never done this before but I think i need to sand down the existing dry mud from the previous installation first to start with a smooth even finish. Then i'll apply the mud and tape and sand and do it over again a million times. I've watched a few youtube videos. It'll be tedious but not rocket science. I just want general advice, do-s and don'ts. Like I have questions about how to make sure you stay straight when applying a super long tape to the ceiling. Do I need to fill in the larger holes like in the corners with something else? Why did they use like 4 layers of tape in an L shape in the corners instead of filling in the corners with some compound first so there is no weak points... 

learn me...

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Upgrayedd

Upgrayedd 5821

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43 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Hire it out for $500. It'll be done in a day.

One day if you aren't finishing.  3-5 if you are going to finish the walls (gotta let the compound dry between coats).

4 minutes ago, HOOKEM4 said:

Don't listen to this guy. This has all the makings of an epic meltdown thread. Definitely try to do it yourself.

^This

Make sure you get stilts.

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 26058

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Use the fiber tape.  It sticks on the drywall before the mud goes on.  Much easier than paper tape

 

And really no reason to sand the finished product.  A wet sponge smooths it just fine. 

Edited by Gil Bang
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zork

zork 629

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Watching the pros skim the mud, apply the tape, skim it again to get the excess, slam the excess into their pan, apply more here, skim it again, slam it again, apply more there, skim it again, slam it again, etc, etc.  Fucking magical. 

 

Spoiler

The principle of least amount of mud used the least you have to sand or clean up is very appropriate with the old school experts.  Anyone tells you that you need a lot of mud that needs to be sanded down is full of shit. 

 

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zork

zork 629

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44 minutes ago, Upgrayedd said:

Wait, what?

If you apply pressure to the end of the mud knife as you scrape across the tape and beyond, just so, you can smooth it out, gather all the excess mud where very little, if any, sanding is required.  Watch the guys that do the volume jobs.  You have to watch closely and a long time to see the pressure being applied on one end of the knife or the other depending upon where they are scraping.  They are so skilled and have been trained the right way to make it clean, clean, clean.  then the texture hides it all with the perpendicular lines added for  eye effect.  They cover the drywall screws with similar magic.

I can't do it like they do and have quit trying unless it is a very small job.  I still use to much mud.

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ShaggyBevo RIP

ShaggyBevo RIP 3868

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8 hours ago, dad said:

Why did they use like 4 layers of tape in an L shape in the corners instead of filling in the corners with some compound first so there is no weak points... 

learn me...

Because the tape is the strength and not the mud.

Hire it out. Go to your nearest Sherwin-Williams and find a Mexican paint crew and they'll have it done in a day.

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Upgrayedd

Upgrayedd 5821

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5 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Use the fiber tape.  It sticks on the drywall before the mud goes on.  Much easier than paper tape

 

And really no reason to sand the finished product.  A wet sponge smooths it just fine. 

 

3 hours ago, Upgrayedd said:

Wait, what?

 

2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

what what?

 

2 hours ago, zork said:

If you apply pressure to the end of the mud knife as you scrape across the tape and beyond, just so, you can smooth it out, gather all the excess mud where very little, if any, sanding is required.  Watch the guys that do the volume jobs.  You have to watch closely and a long time to see the pressure being applied on one end of the knife or the other depending upon where they are scraping.  They are so skilled and have been trained the right way to make it clean, clean, clean.  then the texture hides it all with the perpendicular lines added for  eye effect.  They cover the drywall screws with similar magic.

I can't do it like they do and have quit trying unless it is a very small job.  I still use to much mud.

Granted I’ve been in commercial construction for only 25 years, but I have never seen drywall taping that never needed sanding or was finished with a wet sponge.

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 26058

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3 minutes ago, Upgrayedd said:

 

 

 

Granted I’ve been in commercial construction for only 25 years, but I have never seen drywall taping that never needed sanding or was finished with a wet sponge.

I've been in commercial construction myself, and drywall was almost always slick-wall.  Never textured.  

Agree?

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Spur08

Spur08 382

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I did a remodel of a condo years ago.  What I learned was that taping/mudding, skimming, floating, what ever you want to call it -- is an acquired skill.  Sure, if you practice long enough, you can do a pretty good job of it but do you have the time to learn?  Otherwise, hire it out for a few hundo.  It will look better and you won't feel like an idiot when it looks like shit and you just wasted time and money.

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dad

dad 557

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I’ll have to get some quotes but one guy said $1800 and that was with me providing all the materials and no painting lol. Fuck that! I like learning new skills and saving money plus it’s the garage so it doesn’t have to be perfect. Hell I was ready to paint over all the tape that was coming off on the sides but decided not to be ghetto.

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dad

dad 557

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The shitty thing is that I’m Mexican and so was the other guy so I figured I was about to get the hook up of the century. I completely understand that the iterative nature of this job and long drying time means they have to come back and forth a lot which is time and gas money. But $1800 bitch you better paint, apply a new floor coat, fabricate shelving, make me a sturdy work bench.

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Xminus6

Xminus6 790

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 3/7/2019 at 8:13 PM, Upgrayedd said:

Absolutely agree.  I’ve just never seen it done with a sponge.

You can definitely use a damp sponge to smooth it. But he’s better off just learning to use the knives to smooth it out. It’s easier and faster. Using a damp sponge is good when you’re trying to feather a patch into something like a textured surface. That’s the only time I’ve used a sponge.

Here are the general steps:

1. Lay some mud in the joint before the tape.

2. Run the tape over the joint with the mud in it. Then scrape over that tape to embed it in the mud and squeeze the extra out from under it. Scrape that extra back into your pan.

3. Run a narrow strip of mud over that tape with a 4” knife.

4. Let that dry and then use progressively wider taping knives to apply multiple coats over the original. The way you feather the edges is to apply slightly more pressure to the side of the knife further away from the joint. So you want to leave the middle slightly higher than the outside. The way it looks smooth is to use thin coats and wider coats so the difference in height is spread out over a wider distance. After each coat dries you can scrape it down with a knife.

5. Sand.

How many extra widths of knives you use is dependent on how smooth you want the finish to be. For a garage I’d just use a couple passes. Use a quickset mud for the first layer and to top the tape. Then use a smoother all-purpose mud for the successive coats. It’s easier to work, feather and sand.

Edited by Xminus6
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Xminus6

Xminus6 790

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4 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Reverse 1 and 2 and use fiber tape

I've heard that fiber tape is actually worse for joints because it will flex enough along the joint to cause cracks since sheets will tend to shear along the joint rather than pull apart (which is where fiber tape is strongest). I thought it was mostly used for patches. I also don't like the texture fiber tape imparts. Sure you're going to mud over it but for beginners it'll likely transmit that crosshatch pattern through the final surface or might be exposed after sanding. Paper tape is also really cheap compared to fiber if you're doing a lot of sheets. I use fiber for patches and a huge cheap roll of paper tape for joints, not that I've hung many complete sheets in a while. I literally have the same roll of paper tape from when I re-drywalled my whole bedroom in my last house 10 years ago.

Edited by Xminus6
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dad

dad 557

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I had already purchased the normal tape. The guy at Home Depot recommended it over the fiber one and made some comment about a negative regarding its use but I forgot what it was.

I will post pictures as I progress. For now I’m finishing refinishing a lane cedar chest to clear up room in the garage to move everything towards the middle to clear he walls.

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dad

dad 557

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15 hours ago, Pom said:

The tape that you’re replacing was likely coming off due to high humidity. Are you doing anything to address that?

No I never stopped to think what was the underlying issue with the tape coming down in the first place. I mean they never painted over it at all so it would have helped if everything was primered and painted after they taped but they just sort of crappily put up the tape as "good enough for a garage" i guess and then it eventually came down. I assume if I do it the right way and apply those finishes then it shouldn't come off anymore since it'll be "sealed in". Do you agree?

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dad

dad 557

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On 3/10/2019 at 11:16 AM, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Buy some wood paneling like this and finish it. 

088991279056.jpg

I actually never though about something like this. Would be a hell of a lot easier. I'll have to do some googling to see if anyone has ever finished their garage with some kind of paneling to see what it looks like. I don't mind being "different" as long as I don't totally ruin my re-sell value. I would think anything I do at this point is better than unfinished and tape coming off at the edges. 

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Longhorn Fever

Longhorn Fever 267

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1 hour ago, dad said:

I actually never though about something like this. Would be a hell of a lot easier. I'll have to do some googling to see if anyone has ever finished their garage with some kind of paneling to see what it looks like. I don't mind being "different" as long as I don't totally ruin my re-sell value. I would think anything I do at this point is better than unfinished and tape coming off at the edges. 

I actually used something like this many years ago along one wall.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/47-75-in-x-7-98-ft-Smooth-White-Hardboard-Wall-Panel/3015239

What I used had a smooth glossy white finish like a whiteboard. We used dry erase markers for quick measurements or notes, notes to/from the wife, and for the kids to draw.

 

 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 26058

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2 hours ago, dad said:

No I never stopped to think what was the underlying issue with the tape coming down in the first place. I mean they never painted over it at all so it would have helped if everything was primered and painted after they taped but they just sort of crappily put up the tape as "good enough for a garage" i guess and then it eventually came down. I assume if I do it the right way and apply those finishes then it shouldn't come off anymore since it'll be "sealed in". Do you agree?

the reason that they didn't do a great job originally is that they weren't doing it for appearance.  It's "fire-taped" per code.  The drywall (and taped joints) serve as a fire barrier between the garage and the living areas. 

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horn4life

horn4life 3784

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Either tape will work. The paper tape is thinner and smoother BUT not as strong as the fiber tape.  The fiber takes two passes to get it smooth if you are going thin.

I personally don't think it's all that hard unless you are trying to do a PERFECTLY smooth ceiling.  The first thing I would tell you is to go buy a sanding sponge.  A LOT less messy than using a pole sander. The KEY is to put mud into the crack BEFORE you put the paper tape down so you don't have seam cracking. You use a small knife and move out in knife size until the seam is smooth.  

Are you going to texture?  IF so you will find many of the flaws covered at that point.  PAINT makes flaws on ANYTHING become more apparent. If you are going to paint it, texture it!  As has been said the pros use thin coats because they want to use as little material (cost), and more importantly they do NOT want to waste additional time sanding.  It's a skill where you will get better and feel more confident by the end.  I learned, basically because I DID NOT want any trades in my house,  my paranoid safeguard to protect my daughters.  Plus you almost always end up having to repair drywall at some point so it's a good skill to know how to do decently. 

1) If I were you I might also consider going with on of the pre-mixed BOXES  Simply as they will be more consistent for you and allow for easier stopping and starting.  Clean your tools and trays. The reason I like the box better is I can scoop out the mud I need, then remove all the air by squeezing it out of the plastic bag. Bucket gets too much hard material on the sides. By cost the mix your own is less expensive, but not worth cleaning an extra bucket for me most of the time.

2) I would buy an extra mud tray.  Simply as a newbie you will be a little messy at first.  They are like $5, and stopping to clean a tray takes time. I'd rather clean two trays once. 

3) The idea is not so much covering a bulge, more precisely you are blending in an edge.. If you can get the edge of the tape pretty even on the fisrt pass, the other passes will blend it in as the seam widens.

4) Clean your knives on your tray a lot.  You will get more build mud up than you think on them. It's the only way to manage your mud volume and it's a good habit to get into.  

5) sanding sponge like this marshalltown-drywall-sanding-tools-dws46

5) garage is the best possible place to start!  Go buy a texture sprayer from harbor freight and texture at the end and your tape job and your wife will think you actually do carry a Man Card! 😉

 

 

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