16 year olds voting?

[NBMisha 224]

21 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

I don't hate "old" people, but the average life expectancy in the U.S. is 78 years old.  13 years between getting Medicare and SS and when you statistically are expected to die.  Sorry, but that's old. God bless you if you're some outlier who's 68 and runs marathons and deadlifts trucks and has another 30-40 years in front of you, but you're still old generally speaking.

The that's from birth.  If you make it to 65 life expectancy is around 85.  So that's a considerable future.

[David Dennison 18655]

5 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

The First Ammendment doesn’t give an employee/teacher unlimited speech protection.

Unless there is a compelling reason for the government to limit speech, public school teachers are free to express their political views.

Private schools are a different story.

[Incredulity 11564]

16 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Unless there is a compelling reason for the government to limit speech, public school teachers are free to express their political views.

Private schools are a different story.

It’s not a simple matter.

It would be extraordinarily rare for a district to allow vigorous political stumping by a teacher during school time. 

 

[David Dennison 18655]

6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

It’s not a simple matter.

It would be extraordinarily rare for a district to allow vigorous political stumping by a teacher during school time. 

But it's probably unconstitutional if they are prohibited from expressing their political views.

[Incredulity 11564]

Just now, David Dennison said:

But it's probably unconstitutional if they are prohibited from expressing their political views.

Many standing court decisions  disagree.

[David Dennison 18655]

NM

Edited March 9, 2019 by David Dennison

[DanRydell 799]

Throw in teachers lobbying for their preferred candidate, ugh what a disaster. 

Many seniors can already vote and that’s not an issue.

[Bama Chick 28596]

My 16 year old is more politically informed than my 20 year old.

I’d trust her with the vote more than him.

Every kid is different.

I don’t like the idea of high school’s becoming campaign battlegrounds - our school had some ugly shit go down after 2016 and none of them had skin in the game.

But, they are being materially affected by gun violence and drug policies and environmental issues, so I’m torn.

And 16 year olds in Alabama voting would likely be more Trumpy voters, so I’m not advocating for it from a position of benefit to my “team”.

I don’t know, on this one I can actually see “both sides” and I’m not sure which one I would choose yet.

[Incredulity 11564]

Weingarten vs. Board of Education

 

[David Dennison 18655]

Just now, Incredulity said:

Weingarten vs. Board of Education

How about a SCOTUS case.

 

[Incredulity 11564]

Just now, David Dennison said:

How about a SCOTUS case.

 

Garcetti vs. Ceballos

[David Dennison 18655]

18 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Garcetti vs. Ceballos

Proving yet again that conservatives hate America.

[Incredulity 11564]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Proving yet again that conservatives hate America.

Liberal parents lose their shit way worse when a conservative teacher won’t STFU.

 

[David Dennison 18655]

56 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Liberal parents lose their shit way worse when a conservative teacher won’t STFU.

Conservative parents are snowflakes when it comes to commie libs indoctrinating the Hitler youth.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

19 hours ago, Crusher said:

Why not .. They can drive?  

 

When they are mature enough to keep their mouth shut over banging their English teachers, then we might consider it. Til then hell no.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

11 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Having our country’s politics infect 10th, 11th and 12th grade can’t have any negative consequences.  I can’t think of any negatives of having Sophomore D’s and Sophomore R’s at each other’s throats.

’’

Fitting username

[Mole 4320]

The general concept of HR 1 is great. Corruption is the current greatest threat to our democracy. This 16 year old thing is about winning votes and elections, not cleaning up the process. It injects more corruption into the system in order to consolidate power. It’s a bad, cynical idea. I’m glad it was shot down, but it does cast a slight shadow on the rest of the bill. Our public education system is already a politicized mess without inserting this nonsense into it. I’m sure it plays well on /r/teenagers though. 

It would be nice if there was an anti corruption bill that would actually pass.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

11 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Honest question, do you even think Trump can read at a high school level? 

GDP...up

Unemployment...down

Businesses making comeback 

MY wages...way up

My taxes... down

Company I work for...historic work load 

 

That said, WGAF.

Edit: JFC, how the hell did I wind up p in the cloak room...SHIT.

Edited March 10, 2019 by SHOOTER12

[GRHorn 105]

21 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Everyone dies a socialist. You can thank Medicare and Social Security.

Medicare, ok. Social Security? Most people under 40 are gonna pay for social security their whole life and see nothing from it. Bad example. 

[GRHorn 105]

16 year olds being allowed to vote, also bad idea. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

34 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

GDP...up

Unemployment...down

Businesses making comeback 

MY wages...way up

My taxes... down

Company I work for...historic work load 

 

That said, WGAF.

Edit: JFC, how the hell did I wind up p in the cloak room...SHIT.

Just back away slowly, do not, I REPEAT DO NOT make any sudden moves, and for the Love of God do not make eye contact with the inmates.......  Please pull the door shut on yer way.

 

Thank ya kindly.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

6 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Just back away slowly, do not, I REPEAT DO NOT make any sudden moves, and for the Love of God do not make eye contact with the inmates.......  Please pull the door shut on yer way.

 

Thank ya kindly.

Thanks bro...I made it, I think.  Talk about a scary reality check, I had it.

DAMMIT, AM I HERE AGAIN??? ARGGGHHH, WTH?

Edited March 10, 2019 by SHOOTER12

[David Dennison 18655]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

Medicare, ok. Social Security? Most people under 40 are gonna pay for social security their whole life and see nothing from it. Bad example. 

Everyone under 40 is going to receive Social Security. It's never going to get cut.

[David Dennison 18655]

1 hour ago, SHOOTER12 said:

GDP...up

Unemployment...down

Businesses making comeback 

MY wages...way up

My taxes... down

Company I work for...historic work load 

 

That said, WGAF.

Edit: JFC, how the hell did I wind up p in the cloak room...SHIT.

GDP's down for the last two quarters.

Budget deficit is at a historic high.

Trade deficit is at a historic high.

WOOT, WOOT!

 

[Macanudo 12926]

27 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Everyone under 40 is going to receive Social Security. It's never going to get cut.

Receive or get our "promised" benefit?   I'm in that range and I'll be shocked if I get the "benefit" that they keep telling me I'm going to get.   Good thing I'm not planning my retirement with Social Security in mind at all.

[David Dennison 18655]

7 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Receive or get our "promised" benefit?   I'm in that range and I'll be shocked if I get the "benefit" that they keep telling me I'm going to get.   Good thing I'm not planning my retirement with Social Security in mind at all.

You'll get your promised benefit. Everyone will. 

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

You'll get your promised benefit. Everyone will. 

Really? How does the math work there? Everybody knows about how it used to be 2 or 3 people paying in for each person receiving benefits when the system first started.  What about as the demographics change and continue to do so?

As an aside, do you think people in the top tax brackets deserve to get social security? 

[David Dennison 18655]

10 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Really? How does the math work there? Everybody knows about how it used to be 2 or 3 people paying in for each person receiving benefits when the system first started.  What about as the demographics change and continue to do so?

As an aside, do you think people in the top tax brackets deserve to get social security? 

We'll probably have to completely eliminate the social security tax cap. It's about time. Should have been done decades ago.

And yes, people in the top tax brackets deserve to get social security. 

[DaysOff 7851]

Good Lord raise it to 25 to ensure all frontal lobes are fully developed. In case they're not, raise it to 30.

[Js1 85104]

19 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

Good Lord raise it to 25 to ensure all frontal lobes are fully developed. In case they're not, raise it to 30.

25-70 then. 

[Bookman 4610]

3 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

GDP...up

Unemployment...down

Businesses making comeback 

MY wages...way up

My taxes... down

Company I work for...historic work load 

 

That said, WGAF.

Edit: JFC, how the hell did I wind up p in the cloak room...SHIT.

Your wages went way up and you give credit to Donald Trump?

[F250 28682]

Allowing 16/17 year olds to vote would just grant an extra vote to people with kids and diminish the voting block of people without kids. The majority of teens with political views will just be a mirror of their parents. At least college age kids might have been exposed to different views from what they were raised on.

 

 

[gmr548 16504]

Seriously?   Why is this a troll post?   It's worth a discussion when members of Congress propose changing voting dynamics.  

I shouldn't feed but I'm dumb so I will.

Because it has zero chance of becoming law and the provision in question is only in there because of that very reason. You want to get fired up about a line item on a bill that's going nowhere despite God knows how many more pressing things to be upset about. That's the definition of concern trolling.

Beyond that, as others have pointed out, it's really fucking dumb to act like 16 year olds voting is some sort of logical or moral abomination when a disproportionate amount of the electorate is 65+ and votes with a similar lack of regard for the common good as you supposedly dread from 16 year olds.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[gmr548 16504]

Surly really hates “old” people (and 65 is not old).

65 is, by any metric, old.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[formermav43 4599]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

65 is, by any metric, old.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

Well that’s obviously false. For instance, the bowhead whale lives to be 200+ years old. So if our metric is “average bowhead whale life expectancy,” 65 is positively young.

[Incredulity 11564]

5 hours ago, formermav43 said:

Well that’s obviously false. For instance, the bowhead whale lives to be 200+ years old. So if our metric is “average bowhead whale life expectancy,” 65 is positively young.

Breaking News: The House just introduced H.R. 2.  Bowhead whales can vote at 65.  

House D’s ecstatic at locking up 135 years of loyal voters.

[GRHorn 105]

9 hours ago, David Dennison said:

We'll probably have to completely eliminate the social security tax cap. It's about time. Should have been done decades ago.

And yes, people in the top tax brackets deserve to get social security. 

No thanks. I already pay my fair share.

 

[David Dennison 18655]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

No thanks. I already pay my fair share.

And you'll pay more when the cap is raised or eliminated.

[GRHorn 105]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

And you'll pay more when the cap is raised or eliminated.

I’d rather just not have benefits. I’m already assuming it’s just money the government is stealing from me. I’ll never see a dollar. 

[David Dennison 18655]

Just now, GRHorn said:

I’d rather just not have benefits. I’m already assuming it’s just money the government is stealing from me. I’ll never see a dollar. 

Of course you will. If you don't, the United States is no longer the United States and we have bigger problems.

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Of course you will. If you don't, the United States is no longer the United States and we have bigger problems.

I know the welfare state is near and dear to your heart, but the government misleads and breaks promises all the time. 

[NBMisha 224]

GR - folks have been saying there won't be SS "for me" my whole life.  65 this year, and it's still here, and whatever the arithmetic looks like, it will be here, so sayeth the empirical data.

[Js1 85104]

2 minutes ago, NBMisha said:

GR - folks have been saying there won't be SS "for me" my whole life.  65 this year, and it's still here, and whatever the arithmetic looks like, it will be here, so sayeth the empirical data.

There’d be mass revolts if it ever just stopped. 

You cant stop SS now. They’ll always find the money. But considering how many would NEVER EVER accept socialism in their lives, it should be fine! 

[seven 1366]

I'm not in favor of 16 yr olds voting, and agree with 250 that the few that would vote would generally just align with whatever garbage their dumb parents had forced on them.

[GRHorn 105]

30 minutes ago, NBMisha said:

GR - folks have been saying there won't be SS "for me" my whole life.  65 this year, and it's still here, and whatever the arithmetic looks like, it will be here, so sayeth the empirical data.

I get that, butI don’t anticipate it being there in current form, at least for people above certain wealth levels, for a couple reasons. 

Worsening demographics. 

Probable loss of reserve currency status for the Usd. 

26 minutes ago, Js1 said:

There’d be mass revolts if it ever just stopped. 

You cant stop SS now. They’ll always find the money. But considering how many would NEVER EVER accept socialism in their lives, it should be fine! 

I don’t think so. I think people who are well off would prefer cut benefits or zero benefits, rather than maintaining benefits and taking even more via raising the cap or the rate.  No riots, just please don’t steal anymore from me. 

[elfenix 34171]

13 hours ago, gmr548 said:

I shouldn't feed but I'm dumb so I will.

Because it has zero chance of becoming law and the provision in question is only in there because of that very reason was defeated anyway. You want to get fired up about a line item defeated amendment on a bill that's going nowhere despite God knows how many more pressing things to be upset about. That's the definition of concern trolling.

Beyond that, as others have pointed out, it's really fucking dumb to act like 16 year olds voting is some sort of logical or moral abomination when a disproportionate amount of the electorate is 65+ and votes with a similar lack of regard for the common good as you supposedly dread from 16 year olds.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

fixed for accuracy.  and turn off your tapatalk sig.

 

On 3/9/2019 at 8:47 AM, Onboard 2.0 said:

JS1 (hands over ears)  screaming nananananananananananananananananananananananana I can't hear you....

oh irony.

On 3/9/2019 at 8:28 AM, Lucid said:

"Do you remember how stupid you and all of your friends were when you were 16?"

You know it's a good idea when one simple question completely fucking sinks it.

 

On 3/9/2019 at 8:37 AM, David Dennison said:

Do you remember how stupid you and all of your friends were in your 20s?

from my early teens through my mid 20s i was a good little republican.  so, yeah, i know how stupid i was.

[High Plains Drifter 10974]

On 3/9/2019 at 8:38 AM, Macanudo said:

I have ZERO problem with any of those provisions and would go a few steps further:

Ban Congress from sitting on boards (while in Congress) and for 10 years after leaving office.

Ethics code for SCOTUS plus removal from SCOTUS after X years of service and/or Y age.    I understand the need to have experience but there is no reason for justices to nearly die in office on a regular basis.   And I'll open the other can of worms....   Same thing for Congress.   You shouldn't be 80 years old and in Congress.  Or have been serving 45 years (Don Young, I'm looking at you.)   Young is 85 years old.   More than half his life has been spent as a Representative.   How many of us would trust an 85 year old grandparent with that kind of responsibility.   And spare me "We have term limits", it's called the ballot box.   Do you know why Don Young is still in the House?   Because he brings home the bacon to his Alaska constituents.   To the detriment of people in other states.   There are 63 members of the house who have been in office for 20 years or more.   The Senate?  15 of them have 20+ years experience.   Patrick Leahy has been there since 1975.    He's 79 years old and has been a Senator for more than half his life.    That's fucking insane.    

All nominees for the House, Senate or President/VP have to disclose 10 years of returns and while in office returns must be disclosed for them and significant others.   

Mandatory 30 days of early voting for all federal elections.   

I'm all for making it easier to vote and more transparent.   I'm just not sure about extending it to 16 year olds.

So, by your own admission, you agree completely with everything in the bill, except 16 yr olds voting. For that one reason you are are against the bill. Do I have that right?

 

I admit to being leery of letting 16 yr olds vote, but every reason I can think of to not let them vote applies also to the elderly.

[High Plains Drifter 10974]

Also, its mostly a moot point anyway: Even if 16 yr olds could vote, the vast majority wouldn't anyway.

[High Plains Drifter 10974]

 

6 hours ago, GRHorn said:

I’d rather just not have benefits. I’m already assuming it’s just money the government is stealing from me. I’ll never see a dollar. 

 

Horseshit. Quit whining and pay your fucking taxes.

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

Horseshit. Quit whining and pay your fucking taxes.

Why are you agitated?

Maybe you should ask Brisket or Dennison for some relief. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by GRHorn