Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max crashes killing 157

[RPM 26356]

John Oliver was vicious last night.

 

 

[Captainant 27794]

A documentary YouTube channel put out a good timeline of Boeing's downfall and specifics to why they made the decisions they did.

 

TLDW - McDG enshittified Boeing and replaced their engineering culture with a profits-first culture. Fast forward a couple decades and they're killing hundreds of people with undocumented changes to airframes in the name of saving type certification costs

[Deej 76937]

[AUS-97HORN 11824]

probably would make the upcoming lawsuits easier to handle if its all 1 company to sue.....

[InkaUtexas 26139]

Interesting timing.

American orders 260 new planes, including Boeing Max 10s, and plans bigger first class

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/04/american-airlines-orders-hundreds-of-new-planes.html

[Bateshorn 9942]

20 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Interesting timing.

American orders 260 new planes, including Boeing Max 10s, and plans bigger first class

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/04/american-airlines-orders-hundreds-of-new-planes.html

We will see if they ever actually end up buying those planes, or their just trying to goose Airbus into moving them up in line for deliveries.  American already flies lots of Airbus and must be moving to Embraer (which I love flying on for regional jumps) to get rid of those awful Bombardiers. 

[Sgt Hulk 13841]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

A documentary YouTube channel put out a good timeline of Boeing's downfall and specifics to why they made the decisions they did.

 

TLDW - McDG enshittified Boeing and replaced their engineering culture with a profits-first culture. Fast forward a couple decades and they're killing hundreds of people with undocumented changes to airframes in the name of saving type certification costs

Bean counters > engineers.   

[Captainant 27794]

https://apnews.com/article/ntsb-chair-boeing-accident-investigation-52cab375dbdefe343421ff8b9cd38206

Boeing and the National Transportation Safety Board argued Wednesday over whether the company has cooperated with investigators looking into the blowout of a door-plug panel on one of its planes during a flight in January.

The safety board’s chair, Jennifer Homendy, told a Senate Committee that for two months Boeing repeatedly refused to identify employees who work on door panels on Boeing 737s. Investigators want to interview them.

Homendy also said the company has failed to provide documentation about a repair job that included removing and reinstalling the panel on the Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 Max 9 that suffered the blowout — or even whether Boeing kept records.

“It’s absurd that two months later we don’t have that,” Homendy said. “Without that information, that raises concerns about quality assurance, quality management, safety management systems” at Boeing.

...

It is still not clear whether Boeing kept records about who removed the plug — a panel that takes the place of extra emergency doors when those doors are not required — on the Alaska plane last September.

“If the door plug removal was undocumented there would be no documentation to share,” Boeing said.

Boeing has been under increasing scrutiny since the Jan. 5 incident in which a panel that plugged a space left for an extra emergency door blew off an Alaska Airlines Max 9. Pilots were able to land safely, and there were no injuries.

In a preliminary report last month, the NTSB said four bolts that help keep the door plug in place were missing after the panel was removed so workers could repair nearby damaged rivets last September. The rivet repairs were done by contractors working for Boeing supplier Spirit AeroSystems, but the NTSB still does not know who removed and replaced the door panel, Homendy said Wednesday.

Homendy said Boeing has a 25-member team led by a manager, but Boeing has declined repeated requests for their names. The manager of the team is on medical leave and unavailable, and security-camera footage that might have shown who removed the panel was erased and recorded over 30 days later, she said.

[Paper_jam 836]

Recent Boeing management looking about as good as Sears or Enron.

 

[Brisketexan 105382]

You know what would get all those records right quick? A criminal subpoena through the DOJ. Boeing is in full FAFO mode.

[elfenix 34334]

The United Airlines Boeing 737-924 departed George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH) in Houston on March 4, 2024, shortly before 18:25 local time, when around 10 minutes into the flight the 737’s engine began to surge causing flames to sputter from beneath the wing.  

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/united-airlines-boeing-engine-fire-houston

[Pato del Muerto 52608]

On 3/4/2024 at 12:10 PM, Sgt Hulk said:

Bean counters > engineers.   

The people that control the money make the decisions. Everyone else just makes suggestions. 

[freyguy 4302]

36 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The people that control the money make the decisions. Everyone else just makes suggestions. 

and they blame the investors as reasons for their decisions 

[Braff Zacklin 13665]

On 3/4/2024 at 11:03 AM, RPM said:

John Oliver was vicious last night.

 

 

They re-upped it this morning.

 

[Grande Mart 517]

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2024/03/smell-of-fumes-prompts-alaska-airlines-emergency-landing-at-pdx.html

 

Who farted?

[Brisketexan 105382]

737 Max 8 gear collapse in Houston this morning:

I gotta tell ya, the execs at Boeing prolly oughta visit a curandero to enlist his curse-removal services, because....someone definitely put a curse on Boeing.

[elfenix 34334]

i guess the 737 had to one-up the 777's wheel falling off yesterday

 

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21254]

It used to be that I tried to avoid AirBus and only fly Boeing.  Now it's the opposite. 

[Surly Bevo 25165]

Well and it looks like this thread may have missed the one where a wheel just fucking fell off a 777  taking off at SFO the other day

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/boeing-and-united-airlines-investigate-after-wheel-detaches-from-plane/

[NeverMarryAStripper 21928]

I didn't know parking lots had wheels

[royiv 9363]

11 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

It used to be that I tried to avoid AirBus and only fly Boeing.  Now it's the opposite. 

We’re getting close to a rework of an old adage. “If it’s Boeing, I ain’t going.”

[Blotto 23580]

12 minutes ago, royiv said:

We’re getting close to a rework of an old adage. “If it’s Boeing, I ain’t going.”

After that plug disaster,  I have adopted "If your hair aint blowing, its not Boeing" 

Edited March 8 by Blotto

[bschoolprof 6273]

feels like the golden age of commercial aviation safety we've enjoyed the last 20 or so years may be ending.  

[royiv 9363]

3 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

feels like the golden age of commercial aviation safety we've enjoyed the last 20 or so years may be ending.  

Username checks out.

[Nicole44 22078]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

737 Max 8 gear collapse in Houston this morning:

I gotta tell ya, the execs at Boeing prolly oughta visit a curandero to enlist his curse-removal services, because....someone definitely put a curse on Boeing.

Scary really. 

It is the latest in a series of failings involving Boeing aircraft in the past couple of days including the 737 engine that caught fire mid-flight on Monday and a wheel falling off shortly after takeoff in San Francisco on Thursday. 

It’s not going to be long before we have fatalities. What company would build new planes? If this were a car company there would be hell to pay and lawsuits and recalls. This is a really terrifying situation. Something is going to get missed. Airlines are stretched thin. Insane schedules. Something really catastrophic is going to happen. 

[BachelorTrek 3062]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

737 Max 8 gear collapse in Houston this morning:

I gotta tell ya, the execs at Boeing prolly oughta visit a curandero to enlist his curse-removal services, because....someone definitely put a curse on Boeing.

Did some voodoo shaman perform a curse ritual and point an animal bone at the Boeing HQ in Arlington, VA?  Cursed!  Lulz.

[Captainant 27794]

/r/aviationmaintenance had some good pictures from the recent boeing "oopsies"

The 777 wheel absolutely smeared a corolla and fortunately nobody was in the vehicle at the time

And it looks like the 737 MAX8 in IAH this morning was actually a fuckup by the pilot, and the plane was steered off the tarmac

[Dahobbs 17685]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

/r/aviationmaintenance had some good pictures from the recent boeing "oopsies"

The 777 wheel absolutely smeared a corolla and fortunately nobody was in the vehicle at the time

And it looks like the 737 MAX8 in IAH this morning was actually a fuckup by the pilot, and the plane was steered off the tarmac

Let me guess, United by Mesa Airlines. 

[Deej 76937]

1 hour ago, bschoolprof said:

feels like the golden age of commercial aviation safety we've enjoyed the last 20 or so years may be ending.  

We should at least get more seasons of "Air Disasters".

[Brisketexan 105382]

23 minutes ago, Captainant said:

And it looks like the 737 MAX8 in IAH this morning was actually a fuckup by the pilot, and the plane was steered off the tarmac

[Pato del Muerto 52608]

I guess that 777 just went ahead and landed one wheel light, prompting Boeing to claim the gear is over engineered and writing a paper on how removing one wheel from the whole fleet will see sufficient weight loss to increase fuel mileage and save $x per year. Then peer review the paper for themselves and announce the great environmental savings they’ve produced. 

[Leeroy Jenkins 2415]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

737 Max 8 gear collapse in Houston this morning:

I gotta tell ya, the execs at Boeing prolly oughta visit a curandero to enlist his curse-removal services, because....someone definitely put a curse on Boeing.

They ran off the taxi way.  Looks like pilot error and not any malfunction

[lemonlime 5503]

2 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Scary really. 

It is the latest in a series of failings involving Boeing aircraft in the past couple of days including the 737 engine that caught fire mid-flight on Monday and a wheel falling off shortly after takeoff in San Francisco on Thursday. 

It’s not going to be long before we have fatalities. What company would build new planes? If this were a car company there would be hell to pay and lawsuits and recalls. This is a really terrifying situation. Something is going to get missed. Airlines are stretched thin. Insane schedules. Something really catastrophic is going to happen. 

I'm not defending Boeing, which has real problems.  But I don't think any of these incidents have anything to do with Boeing.  Today's issue appears to be pilot error and a wet runway.  Boeing doesn't make the engines (Monday's engine fire).  And I doubt the wheel falling off was a Boeing problem in a plane that's been in service for years--that's probably a UA maintenance issue.

[royiv 9363]

Ooops.
 

https://www.koin.com/news/alaska-airlines-safety-concerns-cargo-door-pictures-portland/

[Nicole44 22078]

Something’s in the air lately;

A cluster of these and I worry about the next one…

[HiggyBaby 2545]

UAL  mechanics

[Guest]

On 3/4/2024 at 1:10 PM, Bateshorn said:

We will see if they ever actually end up buying those planes, or their just trying to goose Airbus into moving them up in line for deliveries.  American already flies lots of Airbus and must be moving to Embraer (which I love flying on for regional jumps) to get rid of those awful Bombardiers. 

I noticed at PHX this week that their skyTrain cars are made by Bombardier.  They should stick to those and watercraft.

[Royalfan5 2355]

3 hours ago, slorch said:

I noticed at PHX this week that their skyTrain cars are made by Bombardier.  They should stick to those and watercraft.

Their ATV’s aren’t anymore dangerous than anyone else’s either 

[RPM 26356]

737 MAX 8

While the company appeared to downplay any issues, aviation expert Joe Schwieterman told KOIN that a cargo door opening up on its own as “a pretty major defect.”

“It affects a lot of the electrical equipment in that cargo hold. So, it is troublesome that you may have a plane where some things like this went undetected,” he said.

Edited March 9 by RPM

[Dahobbs 17685]

7 minutes ago, RPM said:

737 MAX 8

While the company appeared to downplay any issues, aviation expert Joe Schwieterman told KOIN that a cargo door opening up on its own as “a pretty major defect.”

“It affects a lot of the electrical equipment in that cargo hold. So, it is troublesome that you may have a plane where some things like this went undetected,” he said.

What the fuck is the link to that article? 

[RPM 26356]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What the fuck is the link to that article? 

No idea. Replaced it. Here's the article.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/08/lifestyle/alaska-airlines-flight-carrying-pets-arrives-with-cargo-door-open/

Edited March 9 by RPM

[ClubWhatever 12158]

On 3/6/2024 at 12:52 PM, Captainant said:

https://apnews.com/article/ntsb-chair-boeing-accident-investigation-52cab375dbdefe343421ff8b9cd38206

Boeing and the National Transportation Safety Board argued Wednesday over whether the company has cooperated with investigators looking into the blowout of a door-plug panel on one of its planes during a flight in January.

The safety board’s chair, Jennifer Homendy, told a Senate Committee that for two months Boeing repeatedly refused to identify employees who work on door panels on Boeing 737s. Investigators want to interview them.

Homendy also said the company has failed to provide documentation about a repair job that included removing and reinstalling the panel on the Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 Max 9 that suffered the blowout — or even whether Boeing kept records.

“It’s absurd that two months later we don’t have that,” Homendy said. “Without that information, that raises concerns about quality assurance, quality management, safety management systems” at Boeing.

...

It is still not clear whether Boeing kept records about who removed the plug — a panel that takes the place of extra emergency doors when those doors are not required — on the Alaska plane last September.

“If the door plug removal was undocumented there would be no documentation to share,” Boeing said.

Boeing has been under increasing scrutiny since the Jan. 5 incident in which a panel that plugged a space left for an extra emergency door blew off an Alaska Airlines Max 9. Pilots were able to land safely, and there were no injuries.

In a preliminary report last month, the NTSB said four bolts that help keep the door plug in place were missing after the panel was removed so workers could repair nearby damaged rivets last September. The rivet repairs were done by contractors working for Boeing supplier Spirit AeroSystems, but the NTSB still does not know who removed and replaced the door panel, Homendy said Wednesday.

Homendy said Boeing has a 25-member team led by a manager, but Boeing has declined repeated requests for their names. The manager of the team is on medical leave and unavailable, and security-camera footage that might have shown who removed the panel was erased and recorded over 30 days later, she said.

This shows the NTSB doesn't really understand the level of dysfunction at play here.  There are no records.  That's the whole fucking problem.  And so no record of who did the work.   Nobody is going to volunteer that they were the one either, not with all the lawyers swirling.   It could well have been a Spirit person but Boeing wouldn't know that either much less who.

Edited March 10 by ClubWhatever

[mchookem 16396]

im flying overseas for the first time in a couple of months. i should really quit reading this thread. 

[Captainant 27794]

2 minutes ago, mchookem said:

im flying overseas for the first time in a couple of months. i should really quit reading this thread. 

Or get a flight on an Airbus lol

[BamaATL 16593]

Just spit balling here, but isn't a company that lacks competitors due to mergers and acquisitions that in turn is also attempting to purchase the supply chain rife for an anti-trust investigation and subsequent break up?  

Boeing certainly isn't alone as a company on this, but my goodness, when was the actual last anti-trust enforcement?  I can think of about 15 companies and conglomerates that are in need of being broken up; this is beyond out of hand.  Additionally, the innovation and economic growth (over the long haul) of these break ups would be economically favorable.  

I also couldn't agree more on criminal action by the DOJ, these executives are well aware, and have been long well aware of what they are doing.  It flat out is negligence of a criminal nature.  

[UpperWestside 6190]

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

im flying overseas for the first time in a couple of months. i should really quit reading this thread. 

You’ll be fine, unless you aren’t. In which case it was nice knowing you.

Seriously flying overseas is safe and your flight will be just fine. I feel safer 40000 feet up than I do attempting to cross the street in Manhattan during daylight hours.

[ConferenceRoom 6147]

I worry more about runway incursions than anything else. 

[InkaUtexas 26139]

On 3/9/2024 at 11:42 PM, mchookem said:

im flying overseas for the first time in a couple of months. i should really quit reading this thread. 

Just remember, when you get on a flight there is nothing you can do once the doors are closed. Sit back, relax, watch a movie and enjoy the time.

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Just remember, when you get on a flight there is nothing you can do once the doors are closed. Sit back, relax, watch a movie and enjoy the time.

You forgot the part where you take 2 xanax 30 minutes before boarding.

[InkaUtexas 26139]

Just now, conVINCEd said:

You forgot the part where you take 2 xanax 30 minutes before boarding.

Nope. One single vodka before you board, one single once you get on. I do not like flying and have flown a lot (have my reasons). That was the trick my boss taught be for transatlantic. Fell asleep coming out of Amsterdam, woke up in DC. I liked that flight.