Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max crashes killing 157

[Pods 7525]

2 hours ago, RPM said:

They shouldn't have to be told that.

I don't think ears work very well in that situation anyway. 

[Wally Fairway 5517]

Not just the Max version, but the whole 737 lineup has to have cabin pressure switches checked 9,315 airframes worldwide

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/faa-orders-checks-9300-boeing-737-planes-possible-switch-failures-2021-07-15/

[Wally Fairway 5517]

Wish me luck, the 737-800 that I'm on is overweight, because they had to change to a shorter runway. We are sitting here, supposedly burning off 500 lbs of fuel. Then we go....what could go wrong?

 

[Wally Fairway 5517]

Am I more likely to crash on takeoff, full of fuel and die in a horrific fire, or crash just short of landing as we run out of petrol?

80/20 is how I see it 

It's been a good run, Go Green, Hook'm & fuck OU

 

 

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21044]

Just now, Wally Fairway said:

Am I more likely to crash on takeoff, full of fuel and die in a horrific fire, or crash just short of landing as we run out of petrol?

80/20 is how I see it 

It's been a good run, Go Green, Hook'm & fuck OU

 

 

 

[Wally Fairway 5517]

What is the burn rate of jet fuel, fast idling on a runway? Asking for 180 friends (including crew)

Please reply in lbs, thanks

Edited August 3, 2021 by Wally Fairway

[Hanrahan 1306]

6 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

What is the burn rate of jet fuel, fast idling on a runway? Asking for 180 friends (including crew)

Please reply in lbs, thanks

7

[RPM 26208]

1 hour ago, Wally Fairway said:

Am I more likely to crash on takeoff, full of fuel and die in a horrific fire, or crash just short of landing as we run out of petrol?

80/20 is how I see it 

Takeoff heavy is a bad, bad thing. You can always glide to a landing with no fuel and the chance of fire is greatly reduced when you break up.

Edited August 3, 2021 by RPM

[52-80 19076]

4 minutes ago, RPM said:

Takeoff heavy is a bad, bad thing. You can always glide to a landing with no fuel and the chance of fire is greatly reduced when you break up.

yeah but just think of all the money you'd save your family on cremation

[RPM 26208]

Just now, 52-80 said:

yeah but just think of all the money you'd save your family on cremation

Airline will foot the bill. Get the mahogany one with gold handles.

[bschoolprof 6232]

Flew a max the other day; didn't die.  I was prepared to rush to the cockpit and tell the pilots about the trim cut out switches if we had any issues.  

[SquishMitten 10397]

What is the burn rate of jet fuel, fast idling on a runway? Asking for 180 friends (including crew)
Please reply in lbs, thanks

Looks like a gallon weighs about 6 pounds, so they need to burn about 83 gallons. In flight, it burns 5 gallons per mile so about 15 minutes. Can’t find anything that shows fuel efficiency on the ground though. I’d assume at least 2-3 times longer, but if that were the case I’d imagine it would be faster to return to the gate to drain. Maybe a fast idle is less efficient than cruising speed

[Eskimohorn 5610]

Wish me luck, the 737-800 that I'm on is overweight, because they had to change to a shorter runway. We are sitting here, supposedly burning off 500 lbs of fuel. Then we go....what could go wrong?
 

“We have some food vouchers for two overweight volunteers to take a later flight…”

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

3 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

What is the burn rate of jet fuel, fast idling on a runway? Asking for 180 friends (including crew)

Please reply in lbs, thanks

Our standard planning is 400lbs from engine start to TO. Sometimes dispatchers will add extra fuel anticipating long taxis or delays and when it doesn’t happen you’re sometimes over the maximum takeoff for the runway for the given day. 

With two engines running and maybe the APU as well it doesn’t take long to burn that gas. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Bobby_Batronic

[Wally Fairway 5517]

Didn't crash and burn on take off, about to see if we needed those 500 lbs of fuel to make to the runway

[Homercles 10205]

In seriousness the shorter runway = less weight is actually to ensure you have enough runway to STOP in case an engine blows exactly at the go/no-go point.  This is a legal requirement and means you’re going to die at the end of the runway when the brakes fail and the impact crushes that rig like a beer can.  

[Incredulity 11541]

[Wally Fairway 5517]

4 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

“We have some food vouchers for two overweight volunteers to take a later flight…”

I wish

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

2 hours ago, Homercles said:

In seriousness the shorter runway = less weight is actually to ensure you have enough runway to STOP in case an engine blows exactly at the go/no-go point.  This is a legal requirement and means you’re going to die at the end of the runway when the brakes fail and the impact crushes that rig like a beer can.  

Unless there’s EMASWA installed. 

[Homercles 10205]

5 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Unless there’s EMASWA installed. 

The peanut brittle at the end of the runway?  

[Wally Fairway 5517]

FURK!!!
Flying sucks these days, late out of SeaTac today due to fueling problems. But that really doesn't matter because my connection in Chicago was cancelled due to weather (about a dozen flights cancelled) and now I have 6+ hours to sit around here until the last flight of the day & I hate counting the last flight of the day.
 

[C-Man 27029]

On 8/3/2021 at 10:05 AM, RPM said:

Airline will foot the bill. Get the mahogany one with gold handles.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Right now on Frontline Boeing MAX 737 !!

[Eskimohorn 5610]

Right now on Frontline Boeing MAX 737 !!

Username checks out

[bmbmd 1027]

My son in law got his fourth bar today-he'll be flying the max from

San Francisco to Honolulu mostly. 

[Homercles 10205]

8 hours ago, bmbmd said:

My son in law got his fourth bar today-he'll be flying the max from

San Francisco to Honolulu mostly. 

Be sure to impart all the knowledge and wisdom on him from the non-pilot experts who posted in this thread. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21781]

Is his life insurance policy up to date?

[Shaggy3.0 1695]

11 hours ago, bmbmd said:

My son in law got his fourth bar today-he'll be flying the max from

San Francisco to Honolulu mostly. 

congrats!

[CooterBrown 17901]

12 hours ago, bmbmd said:

My son in law got his fourth bar today-he'll be flying the max from

San Francisco to Honolulu mostly. 

For his sake, I hope it's all the way and not most of the way.

[Brisketexan 104537]

8 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

For his sake, I hope it's all the way and not most of the way.

Also, I hope that he gets to fly on the return flight as well.  Because otherwise, that's a bitch of a schedule: fly to honolulu, swim back, fly to honolulu, swim back, repeat.

[RPM 26208]

12 hours ago, bmbmd said:

My son in law got his fourth bar today-he'll be flying the max from

San Francisco to Honolulu mostly. 

Lots of history on that route.

[Captainant 27403]

21 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

For his sake, I hope it's all the way and not most of the way.

if there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that if he only gets most of the way, it's 100% the pilot's fault for failing to bring enough BDE to overcome foundational engineering errors in the design of the aircraft

[XYZ 2154]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

if there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that if he only gets most of the way, it's 100% the pilot's fault for failing to bring enough BDE to overcome foundational engineering errors in the design of the aircraft

You didn’t learn anything from this thread, obviously.

[CHEF DIESEL 126]

Frontline last night was fascinating. How MCAS was only tied to one of the AOA sensors seems criminal.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, CHEF DIESEL said:

Frontline last night was fascinating. How MCAS was only tied to one of the AOA sensors seems criminal.

It pretty much puts the whole a good pilot doesn't have any worries with the previously designed system to bed without any supper....

Everything Boeing did was criminally actionable from the start, and the FAA completely shit the bed on oversight.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[C-Man 27029]

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/14/1046198912/boeing-test-pilot-indicted-737-max-mark-forkner

DALLAS — A Boeing pilot involved in testing the 737 Max jetliner was indicted Thursday by a federal grand jury on charges of deceiving safety regulators who were evaluating the plane, which was later involved in two deadly crashes.

The indictment accuses Mark A. Forkner of giving the Federal Aviation Administration false and incomplete information about an automated flight-control system that played a role in the crashes, which killed 346 people.

Boeing Pilots Detected 737 Max Flight Control Glitch 2 Years Before Deadly Crash
NATIONAL
Boeing Pilots Detected 737 Max Flight Control Glitch 2 Years Before Deadly Crash
Prosecutors said that because of Forkner's "alleged deception," the system was not mentioned in key FAA documents, pilot manuals or pilot-training material supplied to airlines.

The flight-control system automatically pushed down the noses of Max jets that crashed in 2018 in Indonesia and 2019 in Ethiopia. The pilots tried unsuccessfully to regain control, but both planes went into nosedives minutes after taking off. Most pilots were unaware of the system, called the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, until after the first crash.

Forkner, 49, was charged with two counts of fraud involving aircraft parts in interstate commerce and four counts of wire fraud. Federal prosecutors said he is expected to make his first appearance in court on Friday in Fort Worth, Texas. If convicted on all counts, he could face a sentence of up to 100 years in prison.

[Captainant 27403]

[Updawg 2261]

Good thing corporation’s aren’t people .., wait are they?

[Caponata 151]

12 hours ago, C-Man said:

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/14/1046198912/boeing-test-pilot-indicted-737-max-mark-forkner

DALLAS — A Boeing pilot involved in testing the 737 Max jetliner was indicted Thursday by a federal grand jury on charges of deceiving safety regulators who were evaluating the plane, which was later involved in two deadly crashes.

The indictment accuses Mark A. Forkner of giving the Federal Aviation Administration false and incomplete information about an automated flight-control system that played a role in the crashes, which killed 346 people.

Boeing Pilots Detected 737 Max Flight Control Glitch 2 Years Before Deadly Crash
NATIONAL
Boeing Pilots Detected 737 Max Flight Control Glitch 2 Years Before Deadly Crash
Prosecutors said that because of Forkner's "alleged deception," the system was not mentioned in key FAA documents, pilot manuals or pilot-training material supplied to airlines.

The flight-control system automatically pushed down the noses of Max jets that crashed in 2018 in Indonesia and 2019 in Ethiopia. The pilots tried unsuccessfully to regain control, but both planes went into nosedives minutes after taking off. Most pilots were unaware of the system, called the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, until after the first crash.

Forkner, 49, was charged with two counts of fraud involving aircraft parts in interstate commerce and four counts of wire fraud. Federal prosecutors said he is expected to make his first appearance in court on Friday in Fort Worth, Texas. If convicted on all counts, he could face a sentence of up to 100 years in prison.

Why tf would he do this and why would he think he'd get away with i?

[Eskimohorn 5610]

Why tf would he do this and why would he think he'd get away with i?

My guess is because it’s a culture, a standing operating procedure as a monopoly has power over the agency intended to regulate it. It’s just that his actions may have caused the deaths of hundreds of people.

It’s also my guess they’re squeezing him in order to compel his testimony against others. This based on actions and evidence against Boeing, as they sought to steamroll this unsound aircraft into the air.

[C-Man 27029]

2 hours ago, Caponata said:

Why tf would he do this and why would he think he'd get away with i?

The news report I saw last night said he stood to gain tens of millions of dollars presumably based on the success of the Super Max.

[Captainant 27403]

 

 

[Sawbonz 27392]

Was more of a fall down wasn’t it?

[HenryJames 65884]

 

[Brisketexan 104537]

Just now, HenryJames said:

 

Well, I mean....that's probably not wrong.  But....what about the excruciating moments of abject terror and pants-shitting as they realized they were about to auger in?  If you're gonna discount the pain because the death itself was instantaneous, my recollection is that you also have to account for the complete and total "I'm going to die" terror they experienced for a shitload longer than anyone wants to experience such things?  I dunno.  I ain't a PI lawyer. 

[BrickHorn 18185]

Yikes.

Edited March 16, 2023 by BrickHorn

[RPM 26208]

They bought their tickets. They knew what they were getting themselves into.

[atomheartbevo 89395]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

They bought their tickets. They knew what they were getting themselves into.

 

[Deej 76524]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

They bought their tickets. They knew what they were getting themselves into.

- Art Briles

[Surly Bevo 24692]

So Boeing is going with the Arnold Babar move.