Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max crashes killing 157

[ClubWhatever 12086]

From the WSJ article.  Ss you’re plummeting to the ground you might be thinking everything’s going to be ok   QED no suffering damages  

““While passengers undoubtedly perceived the flight as scary, humans have a tendency to hold on to hope and not expect the worst,” Jonathan French, a Boeing witness who is an expert in human factors and aerospace physiology, said in a court filing. “Ultimately, it is impossible to know the subjective experience of each occupant.”

[mchookem 16184]

7 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

i mean

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 minute ago, mchookem said:

i mean

That's a real desperation argument by Boeing. I don't think it is going to work out well for it. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, I mean....that's probably not wrong.  But....what about the excruciating moments of abject terror and pants-shitting as they realized they were about to auger in?  If you're gonna discount the pain because the death itself was instantaneous, my recollection is that you also have to account for the complete and total "I'm going to die" terror they experienced for a shitload longer than anyone wants to experience such things?  I dunno.  I ain't a PI lawyer. 

That is a hail marry for a defense team. You either get a really reduced verdict... or you piss the jury off and get absolutely crushed. I don't think you dust this one off in unless you have nothing else for a defense. 

[Surly Bevo 24692]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That is a hail marry for a defense team. You either get a really reduced verdict... or you piss the jury off and get absolutely crushed. I don't think you dust this one off in unless you have nothing else for a defense. 

Yea, if I was on that jury and had that presented to me I would be going into that room looking to punish the shit out of them for that move.  How do you let it get too this point and not figure out a settlement if that is what you got in your bag?

[ClubWhatever 12086]

I don’t think there is a jury yet. 

[Clintonaldo 2571]

10 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

That is a hail marry for a defense team. You either get a really reduced verdict... or you piss the jury off and get absolutely crushed. I don't think you dust this one off in unless you have nothing else for a defense. 

and then you piss off the public when they read this online.

[Eskimohorn 5610]

 

We should test that theory on Boeing’s attorneys and expert witness

[SquishMitten 10397]

12 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

That is a hail marry for a defense team. You either get a really reduced verdict... or you piss the jury off and get absolutely crushed. I don't think you dust this one off in unless you have nothing else for a defense. 

If I were on that jury, this bullshit argument would lead me to increase punitive damages significantly 

[lemonlime 5503]

 

[Dahobbs 17420]

Just now, lemonlime said:

 

That seems like an understatement. 

[Captainant 27403]

1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

 

"Boeing said the problem was not an 'immediate safety of flight issue'." 

[RPM 26208]

Fake news. Just need to train the pilots to pull some fuses. I read that on the internet.

[ClubWhatever 12086]

11 hours ago, Captainant said:

"Boeing said the problem was not an 'immediate safety of flight issue'." 

What’s the definition of “immediate”?   Like you’ll be able to take off, but landing might be a real challenge?

[lemonlime 5503]

14 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

What’s the definition of “immediate”?   Like you’ll be able to take off, but landing might be a real challenge?

Pretty much.  Just realized the earlier link didn't say what the problem was.  It's the vertical stabilizer fittings.  https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/aircraft-propulsion/new-production-issue-will-delay-737-max-deliveries-require

[ClubWhatever 12086]

From above link:   The Boeing source said the issue is “around the mechanical attachment procedures” and how the fittings were attached to the supporting structure.
 

Drill hole.  Insert bolt.  Tighten bolt.   How can you screw this up?  (no pun)

[Sawbonz 27392]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:29 PM, Dahobbs said:

That's a real desperation argument by Boeing. I don't think it is going to work out well for it. 

When I was in residency my wife worked for an attorney who had a personal injury case where a woman was hit by a dairy truck. She had significant injuries and after all the emergency surgeries were finished she still had some jaw injuries that needed to be reconstructed and she had lost most of her teeth. They couldn’t find any facial reconstruction specialists that would do it on a letter of protection, and the insurance wouldn’t settle. At trial the attorney played a video deposition where he asked one of the insurance executives how she was supposed to eat and he responded “well, she can eat soup. “

When it went to the jury they sent a note out to the judge asking how much over what she was asking were they allowed to award her 

[royiv 9145]

3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

When I was in residency my wife worked for an attorney who had a personal injury case where a woman was hit by a dairy truck. She had significant injuries and after all the emergency surgeries were finished she still had some jaw injuries that needed to be reconstructed and she had lost most of her teeth. They couldn’t find any facial reconstruction specialists that would do it on a letter of protection, and the insurance wouldn’t settle. At trial the attorney played a video deposition where he asked one of the insurance executives how she was supposed to eat and he responded “well, she can eat soup. “

When it went to the jury they sent a note out to the judge asking how much over what she was asking were they allowed to award her 

Anastasis should have known better than to let himself be recorded saying that.

[Gatorubet 30083]

On 3/16/2023 at 5:30 PM, ClubWhatever said:

From the WSJ article.  Ss you’re plummeting to the ground you might be thinking everything’s going to be ok   QED no suffering damages  

““While passengers undoubtedly perceived the flight as scary, humans have a tendency to hold on to hope and not expect the worst,” Jonathan French, a Boeing witness who is an expert in human factors and aerospace physiology, said in a court filing. “Ultimately, it is impossible to know the subjective experience of each occupant.”

“When I die I wanna go like my grandpa did, no pain and just go to sleep…not crying and screaming like the other people in his car.”

[RPM 26208]

4 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

When I was in residency my wife worked for an attorney who had a personal injury case where a woman was hit by a dairy truck. She had significant injuries and after all the emergency surgeries were finished she still had some jaw injuries that needed to be reconstructed and she had lost most of her teeth. They couldn’t find any facial reconstruction specialists that would do it on a letter of protection, and the insurance wouldn’t settle. At trial the attorney played a video deposition where he asked one of the insurance executives how she was supposed to eat and he responded “well, she can eat soup. “

When it went to the jury they sent a note out to the judge asking how much over what she was asking were they allowed to award her 

Too bad that can't happen in Texas thanks to Hot Wheels tort reform.

[Gatorubet 30083]

5 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

What’s the definition of “immediate”?   Like you’ll be able to take off, but landing might be a real challenge?

 

[lemonlime 5503]

Two month old MAX at a plugged emergency exit.  But, sure, no quality problems here.

[Nivek 16843]

Next time put your damn tray in the upright position.

[InkaUtexas 25486]

And your phone in airplane mode.

 

[Blotto 23424]

 

[ClubWhatever 12086]

Holy shit

[Biff Tannen 45491]

There’s a hole in the plane!  Holy shit!  If the masks came down in real life, you’d be elbowing the throats of everyone around you, grabbing all the masks, mouth, ears, eyes…I’m the king of breathing!

[ClubWhatever 12086]

It looks like the seat cover was sucked off the seat next to the hole.   If somebody had been sitting there they would probably be gone, seatbelt or not.

[Surly Bevo 24692]

Pilot forgot to hit the stab....no big deal

[InkaUtexas 25486]

Alaska Air grounded their fleet of MAX 9's.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67899564

 

The Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 Max 9 returned to Portland 35 minutes into its flight to California after an outer section, including a window, fell.

Alaska said 177 passengers and crew were on board and "landed safely".

The airline said it would "temporarily" ground all 65 of its 737 Max 9 aircraft to conduct inspections.

[Captainant 27403]

I flew a MAX8 yesterday to Puerto Rico, and I'm probably flying one back when I leave... Wooooooo thanks MacDonald Douglas for making Boeing sooooo profitable 

[InkaUtexas 25486]

Sorry folk, air travel sucks. Give me a C-130 and some ear plugs.

I travel to DC about once a quarter. I drive. Yeah, I know it is more dangerous, but I don't want to put up with the bullshit. Remember when people would dress nice to fly. Have a cocktail and talk? All gone.

Sorry for the bus drivers and crew of the sky.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

8 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

There’s a hole in the plane!  Holy shit! 

[Hagbard Celine 10749]

this is a bad look

the entire assembly failed

not just the door - the entire panel with the window

at least it can be said the the plane continued to fly and not further disintegrate

737s old and new tend to fly with holes in them

[Captainant 27403]

I'd love to hear from one of the resident surly pilots to hear how it was pilot error that caused the mechanical failure

[Gatorubet 30083]

13 hours ago, lemonlime said:

Two month old MAX at a plugged emergency exit.  But, sure, no quality problems here.

My strategy of aisle seat procurement has been fully vindicated.

[Chopper 17150]

It was already the most scrutinized plane in airline history. Unbelievable.

[UnivTex34 1763]

I totally did not check my Southwest booking for next week headed to Vegas for equipment right now. 

 

Nope totally didn’t.

 

(have a -700 going and a Max 8 returning).

[ClubWhatever 12086]

10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I'd love to hear from one of the resident surly pilots to hear how it was pilot error that caused the mechanical failure

Failed to notice shifting door and gap between door and fuselage on walk around.   Inadequate preflight procedures.

[Your Mom 4791]

11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I'd love to hear from one of the resident surly pilots to hear how it was pilot error that caused the mechanical failure

Why would anyone do that?  One set of accidents had a design flaw along with some clear cut flaws in basic airmanship, agreed upon and documented by every entity that investigated it. The other is pretty clearly a quality control issue having nothing to do with flying. 

Glad to see you still hold grudges like a woman though. Enjoy your trip next week. 

[Bevo 13516]

4 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

(have a -700 going and a Max 8 returning)

maybe

[UnivTex34 1763]

Just now, Bevo said:

maybe

Fuck it, time to put it all on black.

[Bevo 13516]

2 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Fuck it, time to put it all on black.

maybe

[Captainant 27403]

3 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Why would anyone do that?  One set of accidents had a design flaw along with some clear cut flaws in basic airmanship, agreed upon and documented by every entity that investigated it. The other is pretty clearly a quality control issue having nothing to do with flying. 

Glad to see you still hold grudges like a woman though. Enjoy your trip next week. 

🤣🤣 Such poor airmanship it caused them to ground the entire fleet? Gimmafugginbreak. Both were matters of quality control - the lawn dart incidents were because of slapdash programming by Boeing and a failure to properly integrate multiple systems, compounded by regulatory capture. 

Not sure why you're seeing this as a grudge though, just laughing at how fierce the defense of Boeing was in light of their continued negligence towards their customers. 

[UnivTex34 1763]

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

maybe

Goddamnit, at least can we wait till I can use my last two drink coupons first?

[Bevo 13516]

8 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Goddamnit, at least can we wait till I can use my last two drink coupons first?

Might want to combine that with Xanax.

[UnivTex34 1763]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

Might want to combine that with Xanax.

[Nivek 16843]

Sorry folk, air travel sucks. Give me a C-130 and some ear plugs.
I travel to DC about once a quarter. I drive. Yeah, I know it is more dangerous, but I don't want to put up with the bullshit. Remember when people would dress nice to fly. Have a cocktail and talk? All gone.
Sorry for the bus drivers and crew of the sky.

Dressing up and flying ended because of external forces. Security theater, shrinking seats, lesser services, charging for checked bags, changed the culture of flying.

[HenryJames 65884]

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Federal officials order grounding of Boeing 737-9 Max jetliners after a plane suffers a blowout midflight.

[956 Worldwide 34411]

Boeing was one of the world’s greatest engineering powerhouses and then it became an MBA and lobbying company.  In my mind, this is the most important and telling part of the Boeing fraud agreement:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion

Quote

The department reached this resolution with Boeing based on a number of factors, including the nature and seriousness of the offense conduct; Boeing’s failure to timely and voluntarily self‑disclose the offense conduct to the department; and Boeing’s prior history, including a civil FAA settlement agreement from 2015 related to safety and quality issues concerning the Boeing’s Commercial Airplanes (BCA) business unit. In addition, while Boeing’s cooperation ultimately included voluntarily and proactively identifying to the Fraud Section potentially significant documents and Boeing witnesses, and voluntarily organizing voluminous evidence that Boeing was obligated to produce, such cooperation, however, was delayed and only began after the first six months of the Fraud Section’s investigation, during which time Boeing’s response frustrated the Fraud Section’s investigation.

The department also considered that Boeing engaged in remedial measures after the offense conduct, including:  (i) creating a permanent aerospace safety committee of the Board of Directors to oversee Boeing’s policies and procedures governing safety and its interactions with the FAA and other government agencies and regulators; (ii) creating a Product and Services Safety organization to strengthen and centralize the safety-related functions that were previously located across Boeing; (iii) reorganizing Boeing’s engineering function to have all Boeing engineers, as well as Boeing’s Flight Technical Team, report through Boeing’s chief engineer rather than to the business units; and (iv) making structural changes to Boeing’s Flight Technical Team to increase the supervision, effectiveness, and professionalism of Boeing’s Flight Technical Pilots, including moving Boeing’s Flight Technical Team under the same organizational umbrella as Boeing’s Flight Test Team, and adopting new policies and procedures and conducting training to clarify expectations and requirements governing communications between Boeing’s Flight Technical Pilots and regulatory authorities, including specifically the FAA AEG. Boeing also made significant changes to its top leadership since the offense occurred.

 

I am only half joking when I say that we should pass a law barring anyone with an MBA from being a CEO or on an executive board for a Fortune 500 or important defense contractor company.