Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max crashes killing 157

Chopper · January 6

1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

Failed to notice shifting door and gap between door and fuselage on walk around. Inadequate preflight procedures.

It wasn't a door that blew out. It was an actual section of the fuselage. It was in a spot where some airlines have a door based on their config but Alaska does not.

Telegraph_it · January 6

6 minutes ago, Chopper said:

It wasn't a door that blew out. It was an actual section of the fuselage. It was in a spot where some airlines have a door based on their config but Alaska does not.

I believe all Max 9 fuselages are fabricated with a door in that space. Depending on the config and number of seats an exit door is normally not needed and the hole is “plugged”. In this case the plug unplugged.

SuperSport · January 6

30 minutes ago, Chopper said:

It wasn't a door that blew out. It was an actual section of the fuselage. It was in a spot where some airlines have a door based on their config but Alaska does not.

21 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

I believe all Max 9 fuselages are fabricated with a door in that space. Depending on the config and number of seats an exit door is normally not needed and the hole is “plugged”. In this case the plug unplugged.

Also, this isn’t a MAX feature, the -900 (737NG) has been flying with that door/plug option configuration for 20+ years…and I’d bet good money the design was 100% untouched on the MAX to preserve the certification basis.

Given how new this particular airframe is, I’m guessing it was a manufacturing QC failure, which are rarely isolated to a single tail. But AS maintenance procedures will go under the microscope as well, bc apparently it’s been squawking pressurization faults recently:

Mrs Whiggins · January 6

1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Federal officials order grounding of Boeing 737-9 Max jetliners after a plane suffers a blowout midflight.

Shart thread 2024 is that way >>>>>>>>

DCA_HORN · January 6

Spoiler

Bevo · January 6

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Boeing was one of the world’s greatest engineering powerhouses and then it became an MBA and lobbying company. In my mind, this is the most important and telling part of the Boeing fraud agreement:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion

I am only half joking when I say that we should pass a law barring anyone with an MBA from being a CEO or on an executive board for a Fortune 500 or important defense contractor company.

One of their issues is that they are competing against a company that is subsidized by multiple countries and can afford poor decisions.

aggie08 · January 6

3 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

My strategy of aisle seat procurement has been fully vindicated.

I'd rather die than have to get up multiple times for the fat fuck next to me with the bladder the size of a walnut.

Homercles · January 6

Was checking out the thread on Airliners.net and some genius said he’d wished Elon would have bought Boeing instead of Twitter…”at least he has an engineering mindset”

InkaUtexas · January 6

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Boeing was one of the world’s greatest engineering powerhouses and then it became an MBA and lobbying company. In my mind, this is the most important and telling part of the Boeing fraud agreement:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion

I am only half joking when I say that we should pass a law barring anyone with an MBA from being a CEO or on an executive board for a Fortune 500 or important defense contractor company.

Best company I worked for was run by a retired NCO. Then was sold out to a highest bidder. We went to shit. DOS was not happy.

FartingMonk · January 6

The crazy thing is that plug even with all the bolts off is designed to press in. The fact that it blew out and off is fascinating and scary as fuck

Incredulity · January 6

4 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

The crazy thing is that plug even with all the bolts off is designed to press in. The fact that it blew out and off is fascinating and scary as fuck

Full disclosure- i know nothing about airplane engineering

Planes pressurized at altitude, why would something going from high pressure to low pressure be fascinating?

again not trying to be a dick or any kind if plane expert

Edited January 6 by Incredulity

Captainant · January 6

3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Full disclosure- i know nothing about airplane engineering

Planes pressurized at altitude, why would something going from high pressure to low pressure be fascinating?

again not trying to be a dick or any kind if plane expert

7 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

The crazy thing is that plug even with all the bolts off is designed to press in. The fact that it blew out and off is fascinating and scary as fuck

Pressure/depressurizing cycles puts alot of fatigue on connections, and id bet my bottom dollar one of the bolts that held the plug in place wriggled it's way free. Since it was a recently manufactured place, off the line in Nov 2023, there's gonna be one hell of a maintenance and torque checking regimine to recertify those airframes. Manufacturing defects like that rarely happen as a singleton

Telegraph_it · January 6

10 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Full disclosure- i know nothing about airplane engineering

Planes pressurized at altitude, why would something going from high pressure to low pressure be fascinating?

again not trying to be a dick or any kind if plane expert

This is correct. The doors push out due to the pressure differential. This force pushes the door into a socket creating a seal. Just like a plug would. Also why you see the door open inward first and then outward.

Captainant · January 6

Found some more good reporting - the plane that failed had previously known depressurization issues

https://theaircurrent.com/feed/dispatches/alaska-737-max-9-that-lost-deactivated-exit-had-recent-pressurization-issues/

Preliminary information about the accident remains scarce, though two people familiar with the aircraft tell The Air Current that the aircraft in question, N704AL, had presented spurious indications of pressurization issues during two instances on January 4. The first intermittent warning light appeared during taxi-in following a previous flight, which prompted the airline to remove the aircraft from extended range operations (ETOPS) per maintenance rules. The light appeared again later the same day in flight, the people said.

FartingMonk · January 6

What I am saying is look at the bolt holes. That's 16 different points of failure. The bolt holes are all intact. It almost looks like there were no bolts attached at all. There would be structural damage if it sheared.

FartingMonk · January 6

Steel bolts beat aluminum airframe every day

Gatorubet · January 6

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

I'd rather die than have to get up multiple times for the fat fuck next to me with the bladder the size of a walnut.

Fly first class more. My spiel on Southwest cattle call seating is to thin women walking toward me with an open seat to my left: “Hi, would your thinness like to sit in that seat where I will not talk to you the rest of the flight?”

I have not had to sit next to a water buffalo sized passenger for years. Plus, I am not a large person who occupies my seat mate’s space either.

aggie08 · January 6

44 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Fly first class more. My spiel on Southwest cattle call seating is to thin women walking toward me with an open seat to my left: “Hi, would your thinness like to sit in that seat where I will not talk to you the rest of the flight?”

I have not had to sit next to a water buffalo sized passenger for years. Plus, I am not a large person who occupies my seat mate’s space either.

My flights these days alternate between traveling alone for work where I'm at the mercy of what the company covers and traveling recreationally with two kids under 4...no chance in hell I'm wasting first class tickets on those devils.

MrBig · January 7

5 hours ago, Captainant said:

Since it was a recently manufactured place, off the line in Nov 2023

The leftover turkey from Thanksgiving my mom still has in the back of her fridge is holding together better than this plane.

Wilcox Cummingtonite · January 7

9 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Fly first class more. My spiel on Southwest cattle call seating is to thin women walking toward me with an open seat to my left: “Hi, would your thinness like to sit in that seat where I will not talk to you the rest of the flight?”

I have not had to sit next to a water buffalo sized passenger for years. Plus, I am not a large person who occupies my seat mate’s space either.

Nice Guy Eddie · January 7

Since the age of this aircraft could be measured in weeks, what does an airline do when they take possession of a new plane? I assume there is an intensive possession checklist if not maintenance effort.

FartingMonk · January 7

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Since the age of this aircraft could be measured in weeks, what does an airline do when they take possession of a new plane? I assume there is an intensive possession checklist if not maintenance effort.

That's why I am surprised. One of my favorite books is called Black Box Thinking and it dives into. Hey are we fucking up. It takes airlines minutes to say. Yeah we fucked up because they are willing to be extremely critical of themselves. You do that with the medical industry and they say well let's cover this one up. My analysis on why the industry is so different is usually when a pilot fucks up. He isn't alive to defend himself anymore

FartingMonk · January 7

17 hours ago, Captainant said:

Pressure/depressurizing cycles puts alot of fatigue on connections, and id bet my bottom dollar one of the bolts that held the plug in place wriggled it's way free. Since it was a recently manufactured place, off the line in Nov 2023, there's gonna be one hell of a maintenance and torque checking regimine to recertify those airframes. Manufacturing defects like that rarely happen as a singleton

I bet my bottom dollar NTSB finds out there were no bolts installed and QA/QC ate a dick

BottleRocket · January 7

21 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

I bet my bottom dollar NTSB finds out there were no bolts installed and QA/QC ate a dick

I bet the bolts were fastened with DeezNuts.

FartingMonk · January 7

1 minute ago, BottleRocket said:

I bet the bolts were fastened with DeezNuts.

Should have used updog

bschoolprof · January 7

Bolts? It's all ball bearings these days.

ClubWhatever · January 7

1 hour ago, FartingMonk said:

I bet my bottom dollar NTSB finds out there were no bolts installed and QA/QC ate a dick

I think this ultimately will be correct. But it's not like a pipe flange cover where there is a pattern of bolts that directly take the pressure load. It's got these steel pads on the plane and door that contact each other. You can see the plane side ones in the pictures. Someone up thread pointed out that that's why you have to move the door in before going out. But there is a guide mechanism than makes sure the pads are lined up when the thing is installed. It's probably gonna be that the bolts on that guide mechanism were loose or missing and the thing basically fell down to where the pads didn't line up.

DaysOff · January 7

I bet my bottom dollar NTSB finds out there were no bolts installed and QA/QC ate a dick

That's exactly what happened; the question is, was it Boeing or Alaska? Apparently, Alaska guts the airplane upon delivery for wifi installation. We'll know soon enough. The Airworthiness Directive is a one-time check. UAL will have completed inspections on the fleet by the end of today.

Bevo · January 7

5 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

That's exactly what happened; the question is, was it Boeing or Alaska? Apparently, Alaska guts the airplane upon delivery for wifi installation. We'll know soon enough. The Airworthiness Directive is a one-time check. UAL will have completed inspections on the fleet by the end of today.

I'd like to fly on the plane with bolts installed, please.

Surly Bevo · January 7

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I'd like to fly on the plane with bolts installed, please.

That will be a $49 bolt charge. Insert or tap your card her sir.

Brisketexan · January 7

I'd like to fly on the plane with bolts installed, please.

That’s a $39 fee, and it has to be booked online at least 24 hours before departure time.

Eskimohorn · January 7

$39 or $49 for bolts? Hmmm…so many options. I’ll upgrade to extra first class and get double bolts for $125.

RPM · January 7

22 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I'd like to fly on the plane with bolts installed, please.

and the "optional" emergency exit made not "optional"

Bevo · January 7

24 minutes ago, RPM said:

and the "optional" emergency exit made not "optional"

At least they aren't charging it out as in flight entertainment.

ClubWhatever · January 7

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

That's exactly what happened; the question is, was it Boeing or Alaska? Apparently, Alaska guts the airplane upon delivery for wifi installation. We'll know soon enough. The Airworthiness Directive is a one-time check. UAL will have completed inspections on the fleet by the end of today.

You shouldn't have to remove that plug for any reason except to inspect it. Boeing has had lots of the quality problems with the fuselage supplier, Spirit. There was an escape last year where mechanics were cracking the fitting that holds on the V tail and like 100 Max's had to be reworked.

FartingMonk · January 7

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

That's exactly what happened; the question is, was it Boeing or Alaska? Apparently, Alaska guts the airplane upon delivery for wifi installation. We'll know soon enough. The Airworthiness Directive is a one-time check. UAL will have completed inspections on the fleet by the end of today.

I am really surprised it was Alaska Airlines that fucked up. They are held to pretty high regards from what I know on their standards. If it was Spirit or RyanAir I would understand but Alaska? Some heads are gonna roll for this one

bolverk · January 7

12 minutes ago, Bevo said:

At least they aren't charging it out as in flight entertainment.

Dad's not amused.

RPM · January 7

21 minutes ago, Bevo said:

At least they aren't charging it out as in flight entertainment.

bschoolprof · January 7

1 hour ago, FartingMonk said:

I am really surprised it was Alaska Airlines that fucked up. They are held to pretty high regards from what I know on their standards. If it was Spirit or RyanAir I would understand but Alaska? Some heads are gonna roll for this one

Well they did do really shoddy maintenance on the horizontal stabilizer that led to that crash off California about 20 years ago. I wouldn't rule it out.

Grande Mart · January 7

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2024/01/door-in-alaska-airlines-accident-believed-to-have-fallen-over-beaverton-publics-help-sought-in-finding-the-key-evidence.html

They are looking for the plug near my neighborhood. I haven't noticed it in my backyard though. Lot's of tall Doug Firs though, might be up there somewhere.

ClubWhatever · January 7

7 minutes ago, Grande Mart said:

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2024/01/door-in-alaska-airlines-accident-believed-to-have-fallen-over-beaverton-publics-help-sought-in-finding-the-key-evidence.html

They are looking for the plug near my neighborhood. I haven't noticed it in my backyard though. Lot's of tall Doug Firs though, might be up there somewhere.

It's going to destroy the branches of any tree it hit and go through to the ground. Imagine something the size and weight of a refrigerator door going 100+ mph.

Brisketexan · January 7

It's going to destroy the branches of any tree it hit and go through to the ground. Imagine something the size and weight of a refrigerator door going 100+ mph.

Grande Mart · January 7

25 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

It's going to destroy the branches of any tree it hit and go through to the ground. Imagine something the size and weight of a refrigerator door going 100+ mph.

Sounds like when I go skiing

DaysOff · January 7

UAL is supposed to begin receiving MAX 10s in 2024 or 25. That plug will be an emergency exit that's hinged at the bottom with a slide similar to a 757-300.

Captainant · January 8

42 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

UAL is supposed to begin receiving MAX 10s in 2024 or 25. That plug will be an emergency exit that's hinged at the bottom with a slide similar to a 757-300.

Inb4 grounding order on the MAX10. Boeing QA and subcontractor QA is demonstrably crapola

ClubWhatever · January 8

This guy has detailed pictures of how the plug is installed. Hard to imagine how the plug could come out unless some or all of the lock bolts were missing or fell out. One other scenario I thought of, if the mechanic unbelievably put the upper bolts in first and then installed the plug, the roller could just be engaged on a small sliver of the guide. None of the load pads would be engaged and the roller would probably be overloaded. That would be an egregious QC miss.

FartingMonk · January 8

Door has been found. And so has a iPhone of one of the passengers. Still with half a charge. I want to know what phone case the person had and if the screen is still intact

Telegraph_it · January 8

7 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Door has been found. And so has a iPhone of one of the passengers. Still with half a charge. I want to know what phone case the person had and if the screen is still intact

Screen works great. I guess the person doesn’t auto lock their screen and was thinking ahead

AUS-97HORN · January 8

16 hours ago, Grande Mart said:

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2024/01/door-in-alaska-airlines-accident-believed-to-have-fallen-over-beaverton-publics-help-sought-in-finding-the-key-evidence.html

They are looking for the plug near my neighborhood. I haven't noticed it in my backyard though. Lot's of tall Doug Firs though, might be up there somewhere.

15 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

It's going to destroy the branches of any tree it hit and go through to the ground. Imagine something the size and weight of a refrigerator door going 100+ mph.

NTSB says they got emailed 2 pics from "Bob In Portland" that they ID'd as the plug... just chilling in his backyard.

Nice Guy Eddie · January 8

Update: Voice recorder was wiped clear as it only records 2 hours on a continuous loop. Doesn't make a lot of sense since I doubt the plane flew for 2 hours with hole in the side but one gap in data. I gather it was 2+ hours when the maintenance team went to retrieve the data.

21 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

I am really surprised it was Alaska Airlines that fucked up. They are held to pretty high regards from what I know on their standards. If it was Spirit or RyanAir I would understand but Alaska? Some heads are gonna roll for this one

Admittedly I don't know much about Alaska Airlines but I was under the impression they were known for bad maintenance practices. Being in Texas, I have little reason to know much about them.

Edited January 8 by Nice Guy Eddie

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Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max crashes killing 157

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