Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max crashes killing 157

[tokamak 6393]

2 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

It's the terrorist attack rule.  No place is safer than after a terrorist attack.  Those 737s are going to be inspected with a fine tooth comb.  Just gotta watch out for mushroom eating pilots

The problem is that the airplane may have been assembled by fuckups. Capitalist fuckups or union fuckups depending on your Surly point of view, but fuckups nevertheless. Who knows what else wasn't done right? Are they checking the bolts on all the plugs, or just the one side? What about the doors? The landing gear? The fucking engines?

[Ghost of LL 15531]

4 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Like sending the entire world home for months on end and then a resultant massive brain drain of boomer retirements kind of shift change SNAFU?

Oh, my everloving fucking god, will you please stop trying to make some innane political point with every fucking post on every fucking topic?  It's exhausting.  It's exhausting to an absolute mortifying degree.

I'm not even trying to be the "take it to CR" police, though the "take it to CR" police never seem to cite you for even your blatant violations, but Jesus tapdancing Christ--you really do have nothing to contribute other than some drive-by political sniping, do you?

[Chopper 17230]

32 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Mostly because of Alaska 261 which was a maintenance failure. I guess Notoriously is probably a bit strong. 

24 years ago? Yeah I'd have to agree "notoriously" seems a bit strong.

[MissingInAction 25013]

28 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Oh, my everloving fucking god, will you please stop trying to make some innane political point with every fucking post on every fucking topic?  It's exhausting.  It's exhausting to an absolute mortifying degree.

I'm not even trying to be the "take it to CR" police, though the "take it to CR" police never seem to cite you for even your blatant violations, but Jesus tapdancing Christ--you really do have nothing to contribute other than some drive-by political sniping, do you?

Don't argue with donkeys.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

1 hour ago, MissingInAction said:

Don't argue with donkeys.

I'm not even arguing with him.  I'm just expressing my exasperation by his inability to stop sucking his own dick in public.

[Incredulity 11654]

2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Bolt tighteners didn’t WFH, dumbass. 

TIL bolt tightners were essential workers

[Incredulity 11654]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

Oh, my everloving fucking god, will you please stop trying to make some innane political point with every fucking post on every fucking topic?  It's exhausting.  It's exhausting to an absolute mortifying degree.

I'm not even trying to be the "take it to CR" police, though the "take it to CR" police never seem to cite you for even your blatant violations, but Jesus tapdancing Christ--you really do have nothing to contribute other than some drive-by political sniping, do you?

Once again its not a political point its a practical point.  Shutting down the world has consequences.

[Herbie Hancock 7344]

I'm not even arguing with him.  I'm just expressing my exasperation by his inability to stop sucking his own dick in public.

Idk about doing it in public, but if I possessed that ability idk if I’d get much done for the foreseeable….ever. Now, honest question, does that make you gay? I mean, you sucked a dick. And, do you finish in your own mouth?

Asking for a friend, of course.

[FartingMonk 3606]

3 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Idk about doing it in public, but if I possessed that ability idk if I’d get much done for the foreseeable….ever. Now, honest question, does that make you gay? I mean, you sucked a dick. And, do you finish in your own mouth?

Asking for a friend, of course.

The cream filling is the best part right?   Errr, speaking for a friend of course 

[MissingInAction 25013]

28 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I'm not even arguing with him.  I'm just expressing my exasperation by his inability to stop sucking his own dick in public.

But he thinks you are arguing with him.

He's too fucking stupid to interpret anything else. 

[UT_OB1 2217]

16 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Idk about doing it in public, but if I possessed that ability idk if I’d get much done for the foreseeable….ever. Now, honest question, does that make you gay? I mean, you sucked a dick. And, do you finish in your own mouth?

Asking for a friend, of course.

Does giving handjobs to yourself all the time make you gay (nttawt)?  No?  Then carry on

Edited January 10 by UT_OB1

[drt 638]

21 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

TIL bolt tightners were essential workers

Anything to do with manufacturing that touched defense was deemed essential.

[Incredulity 11654]

Just now, drt said:

Anything to do with manufacturing that touched defense was deemed essential.

TIL there is a fighter bomer variant of the 737 max

7 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

But he thinks you are arguing with him.

He's too fucking stupid to interpret anything else. 

Erroneous on all counts 

 

[Zepol87 9185]

40 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Once again its not a political point it’s a practical point.  Shutting down the world has consequences.

 Flew weekly for 18 months during the pandemic. Airlines were definitely not shut down and building planes and shit was not impacted at all because you know we love to fly. This is a stupid fucking argument but normal 

[Captainant 27637]

20 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

TIL there is a fighter bomer variant of the 737 max

The Poseidon ASW aircraft is literally just a 737

[Incredulity 11654]

1 minute ago, Zepol87 said:

 Flew weekly for 18 months during the pandemic. Airlines were definitely not shut down and building planes and shit was not impacted at all because you know we love to fly. This is a stupid fucking argument but normal 

Boeing shut down their production lines during portions of the pandemic.

 

They didn’t operate fully for a long fucking time.

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

And in that time, the knowledge of tightening bolts just up and disappeared with the retired boomers that were still on the line. 
 

boeing is probably kicking themselves right now for not capturing that somewhere. 

Edited January 10 by Pato del Muerto

[Zepol87 9185]

Do you know what they exactly shut down?
Family and friends work for Boeing and other airline/defense contractors. They enjoyed plentiful paychecks during the shutdown shit. You blaming this on the pandemic is wild 

[FartingMonk 3606]

Boeing's first Covid death coincidentally happened to be a Quality Control inspector out of Renton Washington.  Did his death cause the 737 MAX issues?  Probably not.

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

54 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

TIL bolt tightners were essential workers

 

30 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

TIL there is a fighter bomer variant of the 737 max

TIL apparently airlines landed planes that required maintenance in the workers’ driveways so they could work on them from home.  Fucking dumbass.

[bschoolprof 6252]

Here's great breakdown of the (fairly) latest from a channel I follow.  He's a pilot for one of the big airlines, but also flies general aviation for fun. I find his videos quite informative.  SIAP.

 

 

[FartingMonk 3606]

Boeing shut down Puget Sound for a little under a month.  They did buy out and layoff a bunch of people.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

Here are your accidents caused by maintenance failures, including the still the champ in the US, American Airlines Flight 191 (what a cursed flight number by the way)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Airliner_accidents_and_incidents_caused_by_maintenance_errors

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

I also remember them shutting down Super Max production when orders dried up because they kept falling out of the sky.

[Incredulity 11654]

2 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

Do you know what they exactly shut down?
Family and friends work for Boeing and other airline/defense contractors. They enjoyed plentiful paychecks during the shutdown shit. You blaming this on the pandemic is wild 

No I don’t know the day by day details.

 I too have relatives and friends employed by Boeing.  
 

Boeing also had significant layoffs and buyouts during Covid 

 

 

[Incredulity 11654]

19 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

 

TIL apparently airlines landed planes that required maintenance in the workers’ driveways so they could work on them from home.  Fucking dumbass.

TIL Boeing is responsible for maintenance 

[Zepol87 9185]

For what departments and when if you are gonna spout this nonsense? I was going to relocate from Dallas  and Seattle/chicago/LA were my top choices form reasons. SeaTac was for connections and those mfers weren’t hurting at all. Interviewed with T-Mobile lumen and Boeing.  Settled on LA for a woman probably another thread and bad decision but that’s for another thread 

Edited January 10 by Zepol87

[FartingMonk 3606]

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/coronavirus-shutdown-boeing-will-resume-commercial-airplane-production-starting-next-week/

 

They shut down their entire factory for a . month 

[Wally Fairway 5541]

TIL, many people think it is a bolt tightening error, completely missing the importance of the bolt tightening inspectors

[ClubWhatever 12120]

2 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

TIL, many people think it is a bolt tightening error, completely missing the importance of the bolt tightening inspectors

They're the same people.   About 5 years ago Boeing went to self inspection on a majority of work orders.  Don't that just beat all?

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

10 hours ago, Incredulity said:

TIL Boeing is responsible for maintenance 

Want to keep moving goal posts so you can get dunked on some more?  You’re embarrassing yourself. 

[Incredulity 11654]

40 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Want to keep moving goal posts so you can get dunked on some more?  You’re embarrassing yourself. 

The whole conversation has been about Boeing and airplane manufacturing not airlines and maintenance you fucking idoit.

Edited January 10 by Incredulity

[FartingMonk 3606]

Y'all need to let it go.  Both sides of this need to stop.  beginning to sound like idiots.  Ruining a good thread 

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

11 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

For what departments and when if you are gonna spout this nonsense? I was going to relocate from Dallas  and Seattle/chicago/LA were my top choices form reasons. SeaTac was for connections and those mfers weren’t hurting at all. Interviewed with T-Mobile lumen and Boeing.  Settled on LA for a woman probably another thread and bad decision but that’s for another thread 

[Captainant 27637]

35 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Y'all need to let it go.  Both sides of this need to stop.  beginning to sound like idiots.  Ruining a good thread 

Lmao "both sides"? Gimmafugginbreak. It's just incredulity thread shitting and ignoring plain facts

[Bevo 13568]

8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Lmao "both sides"? Gimmafugginbreak. It's just incredulity thread shitting and ignoring plain facts

[Wally Fairway 5541]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

The whole conversation has been about Boeing and airplane manufacturing not airlines and maintenance you fucking idoit.

FYI - the airframe that lost its plug was delivered in October. I'm not saying there isn't ongoing maintenance requirements, but don't pretend this was a plane with thousands and thousands of hours on it.

[bschoolprof 6252]

9 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

FYI - the airframe that lost its plug was delivered in October. I'm not saying there isn't ongoing maintenance requirements, but don't pretend this was a plane with thousands and thousands of hours on it.

The manual says the "check plug door to see if manufacturer put the fucking bolts in" procedure is not called for until after the 2nd oil change. 

[Bevo 13568]

5 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

The manual says the "check plug door to see if manufacturer put the fucking bolts in" procedure is not called for until after the 2nd oil change. 

I want to see this manual. It probably looks something like:

[Incredulity 11654]

31 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

FYI - the airframe that lost its plug was delivered in October. I'm not saying there isn't ongoing maintenance requirements, but don't pretend this was a plane with thousands and thousands of hours on it.

I said the conversation has been about Boeing and manufacturing.

 

NOT airlines and maintenance.

 

 

[FartingMonk 3606]

From what I am seeing.  Boeing is taking the kick in the nuts for this one.  Spirit has been absolved.  Alaska and their WIFi config people have said they don't touch that part of the plane.

[immamac 42837]

Boeing seems like it sucks. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

14 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Family and friends work for Boeing and other airline/defense contractors.

 

14 hours ago, Incredulity said:

I too have relatives and friends employed by Boeing. 

Just one of y'all let me know before the final info is released. I gotta make some calls...

[Incredulity 11654]

LOL

I wasn't claiming to have insider knowledge.  I have lived in the PNW and have some family there.  

Anyone having lived in the PNW and having friends that work at Boeing is about as common as being right handed.

 

P.S. Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel

Edited January 10 by Incredulity

[MissingInAction 25013]

I inspect myself, but no one will probably die from it 

[Captainant 27637]

 

Pretty good technical breakdown of what NTSB has found and told the public so far, delivered by an aircraft mechanic. Some harrowing details that were new to me: the cockpit door blew open when the door came off, the pilots headsets got sucked off their heads and blown out of the plane along with their fuckin emergency checklists, and that the (now found) door is missing one of its guides. It's very possible that the plug door was missing lock bolts AND structural bolts. Oh yeah and the cockpit door blowing open is officially a feature and not a bug - they just forgot to include that detail in the manual. I wonder what else Boeing omitted from the manual. 

 

I'm very glad I flew a 90s era 737-900er home today and not a Boeing plane made within the last decade

Edited January 11 by Captainant

[flatdawgs 1277]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

 

I'm very glad I flew a 90s era 737-900er home today and not a Boeing plane made within the last decade

Me too.

[Hmbre97 6305]

17 hours ago, Bevo said:

I want to see this manual. It probably looks something like:

[CycleTex87 2967]

From a practical standpoint can Alaska Airlines bolt in a new door and put that hull back in service?

[Captainant 27637]

3 minutes ago, CycleTex87 said:

From a practical standpoint can Alaska Airlines bolt in a new door and put that hull back in service?

From everything I've read so far, there's remarkably little to zero damage to the airframe or door frame. It just needs a new plug door and connecting hardware - perhaps it's first ever complete set of hardware lol. 

However, the FAA still has a emergency AD out for the MAX9 airframe in general so I don't think it could come back into service yet. 

The NTSB is going to evaluate the found door and determine if the bolts WERE installed and failed, or if they weren't installed at all. If it's the former, then this is an even bigger scandal and failure. If the bolts just weren't installed at all, then this is fixable with simple inspections and maintenance.