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Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max crashes killing 157

Nueces River Rat

By Nueces River Rat
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Captainant

Captainant 28620

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

Holy shit, 3 mins of them going: "wow, thats a cool fire in the wheelwell on a plane with people in it. its like 2 foot above my head but fuck it, its not my job to put out a fire"

Turns out, when you're paying bottom dollar prices for your labor, you get bottom dollar effort. It's certainly been the case for Boeing, I don't see why airlines wouldn't be similarly effected 

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Bobby_Batronic
Bobby_Batronic

Incorrect. MCAS didn’t kill two planes worth of people. Pilots failing to react to an inadvertent nose down pitch input correctly as per their MEMORY ITEMS, killed two planes worth of people. Someone

Ghost of LL
Ghost of LL

Oh, my everloving fucking god, will you please stop trying to make some innane political point with every fucking post on every fucking topic?  It's exhausting.  It's exhausting to an absolute mortify

Gatorubet
Gatorubet

“Could you make sure that the bolts to the side panel are fastened so I don’t blow out the plane?” “Sure….that will be an extra $23.”

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b_p

b_p 453

Posted
Posted

Is this now the flame Boeing for anything aviation related thread now? Manufacturing and quality issues I get… flame away and they deserve it. But 30 year old planes having an engine out problem should not be a headline. 

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hookemATL

hookemATL 12334

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, b_p said:

Is this now the flame Boeing for anything aviation related thread now? Manufacturing and quality issues I get… flame away and they deserve it. But 30 year old planes having an engine out problem should not be a headline. 

Their negligence and greed has directly led to the deaths of hundreds. They deserve every bit of scrutiny they are getting atm and it should continue until they own up to the bullshit that enabled these “oversights” in the first place. Anything with a Boeing badge that has one switch flipped the wrong way is fair game. Fuck em and their monopoly. 

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b_p

b_p 453

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, hookemATL said:

Their negligence and greed has directly led to the deaths of hundreds. They deserve every bit of scrutiny they are getting atm and it should continue until they own up to the bullshit that enabled these “oversights” in the first place. Anything with a Boeing badge that has one switch flipped the wrong way is fair game. Fuck em and their monopoly. 

Maybe reread my post. They absolutely need to be skewered for the bullshit they have done and continue to do, but to try and annihilate them for every aviation event is just stupid. I saw that Delta A320Neo that caught on fire in Seattle being tagged to Boeing. It’s just stupid clickbait at this point. 
 

With that said, they have absolutely fucked up everything they’ve recently done going back to the 2010s and people lost their lives because of it. They get no leeway on anything anymore. 

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Captainant

Captainant 28620

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For the record, I'm just posting Boeing pilot error fuckups. Airlines have pretty regular incidents like an engine flaring out - it's why there's such a stringent safety culture in aviation. To make it so there's one less variable when an emergency is happening. 

But Boeing has broken and danced on the grave of that convention and professional standard. And people are dying for the sake of their shareholder gainz

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HenryJames

HenryJames 67517

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Posted

Cool.

Spoiler

Boeing shareholders vote to approve $33 million CEO pay package

New York CNN  —  none

Shareholders of embattled airplane maker Boeing approved a pay package of nearly $33 million for outgoing CEO Dave Calhoun at the company’s annual general meeting on Friday.

That’s the highest package ever paid to the company’s CEO and a 45% increase from the $22.6 million he received for 2022. The vast majority of the bump comes from a giant stock bonus granted on top of his more-than-a-million-dollar salary.

Calhoun, who has led Boeing since 2020, announced in March that he will leave the company by the end of the year.

The shareholder vote on Friday was made to approve Calhoun’s 2023 pay package. Calhoun has said he declined to accept an additional annual incentive bonus of $2,800,000 for the year – a request the board said he made after the Alaska Airlines incident.

Upon his retirement, Calhoun is set to take home another going-away present: a $45 million mix of stock awards and options that vest over time.

The approval comes as the plane maker is facing additional scrutiny for a series of safety incidents, including a mid-air blowout of part of a fuselage in January, which prompted a number of investigations into the company’s practices, an executive shakeup and promises that the company will turn itself around.

Boeing has been struggling financially for five years, since fatal crashes of its 737 Max in late 2018 and early 2019 resulted in a 20-month grounding of its best-selling plane. It was also hit by the pandemic, which caused a near-halt in air travel for months and deep losses at most airlines that buy its planes.

“Our compensation program is designed to align leadership pay with the long term performance of our business,” said Steve Mollenkopf, Boeing’s new chairman, when asked how the company can justify such a high compensation package given recent safety grievances. “It’s really driven by meeting our commitments to the highest safety and quality standards.”

Since the start of the grounding in 2019 the company has reported adjusted losses totaling more than $31 billion, and losses are projected to continue going forward.

“The board is confident that the current compensation structure continues to directly align with performance and balances both the meaningful progress made to restore operational and financial strength along with the fact that certain performance criteria has not been met,” he said.

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The compensation committee “took swift action to make significant design changes to our compensation plan in 2024” after the Alaska Airlines incident in January, Mollenkopf said. The annual incentive metric now gives greater weight to operational metrics, like safety and quality.

Shares of Boeing (BA) were down 0.1% in afternoon trading.

This story is developing and will be updated.

 

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13677

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The Boeing brass can only hope and pray that the company will continue to slide until the federal government steps in with a taxpayer-funded bailout. "Boeing is too big, too essential to the U.S. economy, to fail," our leaders will say.

Pay raises and bonuses for all!

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Captainant

Captainant 28620

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https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/01/boeing-safety-crisis-response-union-busting

Its site at Everett, Washington – hailed as the world’s biggest manufacturing building – is at the heart of Boeing’s operation, responsible for building planes like the 747 and 767, and fixing the 787 Dreamliner.

One mechanic at the complex, who has worked for Boeing for more than three decades, has claimed it is “full of” faulty 787 jets that need fixing.

Many of these jets are flown from Boeing’s site in South Carolina, where the company shifted final assembly of the 787 in 2021 in what was characterized as a cost-cutting measure.

“There is no way in God’s green earth I would want to be a pilot in South Carolina flying those from South Carolina to here,” the mechanic, who requested anonymity for fear of retaliation, told the Guardian. “Because when they get in here, we’re stripping them apart.”

Managers at Everett “will hound mechanics” to keep quiet about quality-assurance concerns and potential repairs, the mechanic alleged, emphasizing speed and efficiency over safety. He added: “Boeing has to look in the mirror and say: ‘We’re wrong.’”

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immamac

immamac 44430

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Posted

Accident: Southwest B38M enroute on May 25th 2024, Dutch Roll

By Simon Hradecky, created Wednesday, Jun 12th 2024 17:25Z, last updated Thursday, Jun 13th 2024 16:00Z


A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 MAX, registration N8825Q performing flight WN-746 from Phoenix,AZ to Oakland,CA (USA) with 175 passengers and 6 crew, was enroute at FL320 when the aircraft experienced Dutch Roll. The crew was able to regain control and landed the aircraft on Oakland's runway 30 about 55 minutes later. The aircraft sustained substantial structural damage.

The FAA reported: "AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCED A DUTCH ROLL, REGAINED CONTROL AND POST FLIGHT INSPECTION REVEALED DAMAGE TO THE STANDBY PCU, OAKLAND, CA." and stated the aircraft sustained substantial damage, the occurrence was rated an accident.

The aircraft remained on the ground in Oakland until Jun 6th 2024, then positioned to Everett,WA (USA), ATS facilities, and is still on the ground in Everett 6 days later.

Dutch Roll is a coupled out of phase movement of the aircraft as result of weakened directional stability (provided by the vertical tail and rudder), in which the aircraft oscillates around its vertical as well as longitudinal axis (coupled yaw and roll).

The PCU is the power control unit, an actuator controlling the (vertical) rudder.

On Jun 13th 2024 The Aviation Herald learned that two ribs, that the stand by PCU is being mounted to, were damaged as well as the mounts of the stand by actuator. A temporary repair was done in Oakland replacing the damaged PCU, the aircraft was then ferried to Everett to replace the damaged ribs.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA746/history/20240525/1425Z/KPHX/KOAK

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19489

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On 6/1/2024 at 9:21 AM, Captainant said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/01/boeing-safety-crisis-response-union-busting

Its site at Everett, Washington – hailed as the world’s biggest manufacturing building – is at the heart of Boeing’s operation, responsible for building planes like the 747 and 767, and fixing the 787 Dreamliner.

One mechanic at the complex, who has worked for Boeing for more than three decades, has claimed it is “full of” faulty 787 jets that need fixing.

Many of these jets are flown from Boeing’s site in South Carolina, where the company shifted final assembly of the 787 in 2021 in what was characterized as a cost-cutting measure.

“There is no way in God’s green earth I would want to be a pilot in South Carolina flying those from South Carolina to here,” the mechanic, who requested anonymity for fear of retaliation, told the Guardian. “Because when they get in here, we’re stripping them apart.”

Managers at Everett “will hound mechanics” to keep quiet about quality-assurance concerns and potential repairs, the mechanic alleged, emphasizing speed and efficiency over safety. He added: “Boeing has to look in the mirror and say: ‘We’re wrong.’”

I might be more worried about flying a plane that has been stripped apart and put back together under Boeing's slip-shod maintenance program.

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Captainant

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35 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

https://archive.is/skako

this was previously unreported....

Southwest Plane Plunged Within 400 Feet of Ocean Near Hawaii

    April flight landed safely after ‘roller coaster’ maneuver
    US regulator investigating previously unreported incident

Reading the article, it sounds like more automated systems kicking in... Or maybe just a shitty pilot?

 

Southwest Flight 2786 dropped from an altitude of roughly 1,000 feet to 400 feet above the ocean in just a few seconds, according to data from ADS-B Exchange, a flight tracking website. The plane, which was near Lihue Airport on the island of Kauai, then began a rapid climb.
The pilot was “pitching up and pitching down with the power and close to out of control — very close,” Kit Darby, a former commercial airline pilot and flight instructor, said in an interview after reviewing details of the flight. “It would feel like a roller coaster ride.”
...
According to Southwest’s review, the incident occurred following an aborted landing attempt due to inclement weather that blocked the pilots from seeing the runway by a specified altitude.
The captain opted to put the “newer” first officer in command on the short flight to Lihue despite the forecasts, according to the memo.
The less-experienced first officer “inadvertently” pushed forward on the control column, then cut the speed causing the airplane to descend. Soon after, a warning system sounded alarms the jet was getting too close to the surface and the captain ordered the first officer to increase thrust. The plane then “climbed aggressively” at 8,500 feet per minute, the memo said
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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13751

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Posted

If they went from 1,000 ft to 400 in a few seconds, common sense says they were a couple of seconds away from a crash.

This is also a ~25 minute flight and had to return to Honolulu because of inclement weather on Kauai. Why even leave Honolulu in the first place if the weather was so bad in Kauai. That might be a question that southwest and the govt wants to avoid it being asked.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 35612

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Posted
19 hours ago, Chopper said:

This sucks. Both Boeing and Airbus jets involved. Comped link.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/us/politics/boeing-airbus-titanium-faa.html?unlocked_article_code=1.zk0.cWRj.aiezG9S9Z-qO&smid=url-share

image.png.c5e58d04f473eebb8658a0ca2bc4b6c4.png

If I were the FAA and wanted to know how counterfeit shit got in airplanes, I’d start my investigation with the “little known Chinese company” part. 

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NoRagrets

NoRagrets 1141

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17 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

https://archive.is/skako

this was previously unreported....

Southwest Plane Plunged Within 400 Feet of Ocean Near Hawaii

    April flight landed safely after ‘roller coaster’ maneuver
    US regulator investigating previously unreported incident

Oh great. I’m flying southwest to Hawaii next month. What could go wrong?

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Captainant

Captainant 28620

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Posted
52 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

If I were the FAA and wanted to know how counterfeit shit got in airplanes, I’d start my investigation with the “little known Chinese company” part. 

I'd start with the extra lean supply chains that traded quality for cost

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MrBig

MrBig 5658

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Posted

So Boeing is saying they took the fake titanium off the planes that were scheduled for delivery, but the ones already in the air with the fake shit are still safe to fly?! Sounds reassuring.

Boeing added that it was "removing any affected parts on airplanes prior to delivery. Our analysis shows the in-service fleet can continue to fly safely."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna157160

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Bevo

Bevo 13939

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

https://archive.is/skako

this was previously unreported....

Southwest Plane Plunged Within 400 Feet of Ocean Near Hawaii

    April flight landed safely after ‘roller coaster’ maneuver
    US regulator investigating previously unreported incident

That's below the hard deck.

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RPM

RPM 26687

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After 2 serious 737 MAX engine incidents at Southwest, Boeing alerts pilots

Last year, two Southwest Airlines 737 MAX jets lost engines on takeoff after striking large birds, emergencies made much more serious when smoke and fumes penetrated inside the airplanes.

Flight crews on both aircraft — one taking off from Havana, Cuba, the other from New Orleans — followed procedures and made emergency landings back at the airports.

Recognizing an abnormally high risk in these two unusual incidents, Boeing sent an alert to airlines in February to make sure pilots know the correct procedure in such an emergency to quickly stop the penetration of smoke and fumes.

In response, United conducted “a thorough review of training and existing procedural guidance for our pilots.” Southwest and American sent notices to their pilots detailing what had happened and explicitly flagging the right procedure to use.

The goal was to minimize the risk of catastrophe if pilots facing a similar incident didn’t handle it as well as the two Southwest crews did. Yet a detail in Boeing’s alert — mention of a system on the MAX’s LEAP engine the pilots hadn’t known about — caused concern among some pilots.

That system, a fail-safe feature developed by engine maker CFM International, worked as designed to constrain even worse damage to and a potential breakup of the engine.

But pilots want to know more about the system, which is not in their manuals, and how exactly it performed in these two incidents.

Southwest’s notice said it intends to update its flight manual for the MAX with information about the system. But that hasn’t been issued yet.

“We haven’t been told a lot,” said Tom Nekouei, vice president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Union, or SWAPA. “We’re still kind of in limbo.”


An engine system that’s news to the pilots

Spoiler

The pilot manual and training lay out the conditions that tell a pilot when to use the procedure for engine fire or severe damage. One of those is heavy vibrations accompanied by abnormal engine warnings on the instrument panel.

This is where a new system on the MAX’s engine is relevant. It’s called a load reduction device, or LRD.

The major change to the 737 design with the MAX was a new engine called the LEAP, made by CFM International, a 50/50 joint venture between GE and French company Safran and the exclusive engine provider for the 737 since the 1980s.

The LEAP is also the most popular of two engine choices on the rival Airbus A320 jet family.

Replacing the earlier engine that powers the prior 737 NG model, the LEAP has a much bigger fan to add fuel efficiency. CFM added the LRD technology as another upgrade and it’s on both the Airbus and Boeing versions of the LEAP.

If an engine fan is badly damaged in flight, say by a bird strike, broken fan blades will throw the rotating parts off balance.

That will cause the whole intricate mechanism to shake and heavy vibrations can lead to further damage.

When this happens, the new LRD safety feature activates and disconnects the fan blades from the rotor turning the fan. The fan blades then spin freely.

CFM said this allows the fan to decelerate rapidly “to minimize disturbance to the rest of the engine and its connections to the aircraft.”

Since airline mechanics must maintain the MAX engines daily, the LRD is duly described in the airline maintenance manuals.

An entry in the maintenance manual describes the LRD’s purpose — “to protect the aircraft in case of heavy vibration” — and how it works.

But airline pilots were not similarly informed.

Boeing in a statement explained that the LRD does “not affect airplane handling, the crew cannot affect their operation, and no crew procedures change as a result of LRD activation.”

That’s the rationale for not putting the LRD in the MAX pilot manual. It activates automatically when severe damage occurs. It doesn’t affect what the pilots do and they have no control over it.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesperson Jillian Angeline said “the pilot training for engine failures has not changed and does not specifically address the Load Reduction Device mechanism or functionality.”

Yet some pilots at Southwest and American were startled and unhappy to learn of this for the first time.

“If I have a system in the airplane that has a function, I need to know about it,” said SWAPA vice president Nekouei.

It’s also unclear why Boeing’s service bulletin and the airline notices to pilots mention the LRD. Since the crew cannot control it, what is its relevance to them? Did it have some role in these emergencies?

When the LRD works as it should to reduce vibration and further engine damage, could that mask the severity of the damage to the engine and lead pilots to use the wrong recovery checklist?

Boeing declined to comment. The FAA’s Angeline said there’s “no evidence” that the pilots in the Southwest incidents “were misled by engine symptoms in any way.”

A confidential hotline complaint — which The Seattle Times reviewed —submitted to the FAA under the whistleblower protection system by a Southwest pilot likens the withholding of information about the LRD to Boeing’s hiding of the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, or MCAS, that was a prime cause of the two fatal MAX crashes five years ago.

Yet while MCAS was a badly flawed design, there’s no indication the LRD is defective.

The birds that struck the two Southwest engines “significantly exceed the size and weight” of those used in required certification tests, and yet “the engines performed as designed during these events,” said CFM spokesperson Nathan Hicks.

And although the LRD is new to the 737 on the MAX model, CFM says the system is also on the 787 Dreamliner and 777 engines, both made by GE.

Still, American Airlines captain and APA spokesperson Tajer is unhappy.

“While this engine safety system appears to have a necessary function, we continue to seek information,” he said. “How does it impact the engine indications during an engine failure with severe damage? And why did the engine sump fail to contain its oil?”

“The FAA has not fully considered the weight of this compound emergency and its risk to safely recovering the airplane,” Tajer added. 

Likewise, Southwest’s Nekouei is angry that after two serious incidents he doesn’t know more about the LRD system.

“They have never briefed us,” he said.

In a statement, Boeing said “we continue to work with CFM to learn more about this matter and we are keeping the FAA and our operators informed of any learnings.”

The FAA said it “will determine if action needs to be taken as its investigation proceeds.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-2-serious-737-max-engine-incidents-at-southwest-boeing-alerts-pilots/

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HenryJames

HenryJames 67517

Posted
Posted

Boeing also makes spacecraft.

Spoiler

Boeing Starliner still up in space while engineers work on craft issues

NASA astronauts are hoping to come home within a week.

Timothy MalcolmJune 20, 2024
 

A United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket carrying Boeing's CST-100 Starliner spacecraft stands at pad 41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in preparation for NASA's Boeing Crew Flight Test on May 5, 2024 in Cape Canaveral, Florida.

Anadolu/Anadolu via Getty Images

On June 6, NASA astronauts Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore disembarked from their Boeing Starliner and stepped onto the International Space Station (ISS). The two were supposed to hang out there for about a week, hoping to prove the spacecraft's viability before turning around for the journey home. But due to some some issues with the spacecraft discovered on the trip, the astronauts are now stuck in Earth's outer reaches for a bit longer.

Who are the UT professors trying to keep students from getting abortions?

Williams, 58, who going into this latest mission had spent 322 total days in space; and Wilmore, 61, who's spent 178 total days in space; were chosen to pilot Boeing's Starliner for this manned test flight to the ISS, where they'd spend several days before piloting the same craft back to Earth. The Starliner lifted off from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida on June 5.

However, NASA officials announced in a press conference Tuesday that helium leaks were discovered during the mission, and as Starliner attempted to dock with its host, five of its 28 reaction control thrusters failed. Eventually, the Starliner connected to the ISS and four thrusters came back online.

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The issues are not believed to be dangerous for the astronauts, and the Starliner is expected to get the pair home on June 26—keeping the astronauts onboard the ISS for nearly two more weeks than initially planned—after a spacewalk now scheduled for June 24. NASA officials said Boeing's Starliner can spend up to 45 days attached to the orbiting ISS and so have decided to hold the craft at the space station to analyze whatever data they can.

"We want to give our teams a little bit more time to look at the data, do some analysis and make sure we're really ready to come home," NASA Commercial Crew Program Manager Steve Stich said during the press conference earlier this week. 

 

NASA astronauts Butch Wilmore, left, and Suni Williams, wearing Boeing spacesuits, wave at Kennedy Space Center for Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida.

MIGUEL J. RODRIGUEZ CARRILLO/AFP via Getty Images

The Starliner was developed after NASA tasked both Boeing and Elon Musk's aerospace company SpaceX in 2014 to develop a craft that could shuttle astronauts back and forth between Earth and the International Space Station. During the Starliner's first test mission in 2019, the craft failed to reach the ISS, and during a followup test in 2022, the craft experienced thruster and software issues. Meanwhile, SpaceX has been safely transporting astronauts and customers to and from the space station since its initial Crew Dragon spacecraft launched in 2020. 

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Starliner also had to delay this most recent trek to the ISS a few times, actually. The craft was originally scheduled to launch with Williams and Wilmore in tow on May 6. However, NASA, Boeing and the United Launch Alliance scrubbed the event because of a "suspect oxygen relief valve" on ULA's Atlas V rocket, which powers the craft into space. A second try on June 1 was postponed because of launch sequencer issues.

It should be noted that while Boeing has been embroiled in controversy over its commercial aircraft division, the Starliner program is a separate and independent operation.

"We've always said this is a test flight, and we're going to learn some things. So here we are," Boeing Commercial Crew Program Vice President and Program Manager Mark Nappi said during the press conference. "We've learned that our helium system is not performing, albeit manageable. It's still working like we had designed it. So, we got to go figure that out."

 

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Captainant

Captainant 28620

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Posted

Man who could have anticipated this leaky spacecraft having even more helium leaks when subjected to an even more extreme environment than sea level atmosphere? Just fuckin hope the door doesn't fly off mid-flight as Boeing aircraft are want to do

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