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The Case Against Adnan Syed - HBO

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victory88

victory88 5654

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, wutang75 said:

 


Agreed but the doc is so one sided. Surely they are going to cover the state’s evidence at some point? The podcast was the same way. Will they discuss the teachers statement that Hae was openly afraid of Syed and asked the teacher to hide her on one occasion? Or that he wrote “I’m going to kill....” (of course that really could be anything, but these things should be mentioned).

Also - I just don’t understand how Kristi is getting convinced she was in a class that evening but 10 years ago she didn’t even consider it.

I feel the same way I did after the podcast - he should not be in jail, not enough evidence (that we have seen), but he probably did it. Sociopath.


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I think he should be given a fair trial but it’s so hard to have people remember that far back.  I think he definitely was involved in this but the whole trial is so fucked up and the evidence doesn’t prove anything.  I don’t remember reading about Hae asking the teacher for help because she was scared of Adnan.  If so, it’s pretty damning.  I also wish the documentary wasn’t so one sided.    

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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, wutang75 said:

 


Agreed but the doc is so one sided. Surely they are going to cover the state’s evidence at some point? The podcast was the same way. Will they discuss the teachers statement that Hae was openly afraid of Syed and asked the teacher to hide her on one occasion? Or that he wrote “I’m going to kill....” (of course that really could be anything, but these things should be mentioned).

Also - I just don’t understand how Kristi is getting convinced she was in a class that evening but 10 years ago she didn’t even consider it.

I feel the same way I did after the podcast - he should not be in jail, not enough evidence (that we have seen), but he probably did it. Sociopath.


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"Openly afraid of him?" Where did you get that?  The teacher never said  that.  If you want to read the testimony yourself, it's right here on page 9:

https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/T1w16-19991214-H-Schab-French-Teacher-Testimony-First-Trial-of-Adnan-Syed.pdf

 

BTW, essentially deputizing Hope Schaub, a 22-year old teacher French teacher,  was investigative malpractice on the part of the cops, and goes to show how desperate they were for something on which to build their case. I laughed at her comment about the hug in part 1.  She's still butthurt 20 years later because Adnan didn't hug her back. She thinks it made him look like some cold blooded killer -  when maybe it had something to do with the fact that she was passing out a questionnaire about his sex life to students. 

The cops made her feel super duper important and special, and I'm sure they convinced her Adnan was a killer. Junior Nancy Drew tried her best to give them something, even though she had nothing.

I've learned a lot about coercive control in recent years, and there is no evidence of it here. If Adnan was stalking and/or  abusing her, IMO there would be more evidence of that in Hae's diary. There's always a "build"  -  a pattern of behavior and  red flags - in abusive relationships that end in murder.   I don't see any of that behavior in this case.  

 

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RPM

RPM 26185

Posted
Posted

I still haven't seen anything that convinces me Adnan did it. I don't see a motive. All I see is a theory based on very questionable testimony from Jay and sloppy, if not completely fabricated circumstantial evidence. The prosecutors are clearly more concerned with a conviction and covering their ass than justice.  

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38127

Posted
Posted
Just now, billfromlaketravis said:

Geezus H. Chris, they went back to the "turf expert". Easiest money those private investigators will ever make. 

Ha. The guy didn’t come up with shit.

Umm, my experiments were inconclusive but I looked at the picture you gave me and I speculated about a bunch of shit. We cool?

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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted

So, Jay admitting the cops fed him the “Best Buy” information is kind of a big deal.  It makes senses too, as the cops got Best Buy from the sex questionnaire.

If a detail as massive as *where the fucking murder took place* was fed or suggested to Jay, there’s no telling what else was fed to him.

It’s also hilarious that Jay told yet another version of events.  10 pounds of weed?  Lol okay, Jay.

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deech

deech 2251

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Syed should have taken the deal. I know he's worried about being a convicted felon, but he's spent 20 years in jail and everybody knows who is. It's not like he could get some cushy corporate job if he was found not guilty in a new trial. 

If I had been in for 20 years for a crime I did not commit, fuck the entire system - I'm not taking an Alford plea or pleading guilty if I am innocent.  They can pull my innocent rotting bones from my cell.

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deech

deech 2251

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Okay what the hell???

A private attorney who is running for state’s attorney is being used as a pro bono prosecutor???

Is this really a thing? That is some bullshittery.

I've never seen anything like it.  Ever.  

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38127

Posted
Posted

"Adnan asked me to get him 10 pounds of weed"

This is the most outrageous quote on the show so far. 10 pounds? really? Your local weed dealer sells a pound or two at at time. That's it. There is no fucking way that Adan wanted 10 pounds. 

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Player

Player 4575

Posted
Posted

I haven’t read the opinion from the Maryland Court of Appeals, but it seems as though no consideration was given to Adnan’s effort to challenge the accuracy of the state’s timeline vis a vis the cell tower records.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-syed-appeal-20190222-story.html

Apparently, because this argument wasn’t raised in the post-conviction petition for relief, the court ruled that it had been waived. I don’t recall exactly when or even who on Adnan’s team figured out that incoming calls could not be used to reliably establish locations. Was that information known prior to the deadline to file the post-conviction petition? Regardless, the state’s case essentially falls apart if the cell phone records (and timeline) are placed in their proper context. It’s a harsh result to say the least, and sure doesn’t seem like justice.

Is this argument dead in the water? Or can it be raised in a motion for reconsideration in state court? Or raised in federal court?


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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Player said:

I haven’t read the opinion from the Maryland Court of Appeals, but it seems as though no consideration was given to Adnan’s effort to challenge the accuracy of the state’s timeline vis a vis the cell tower records.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-syed-appeal-20190222-story.html

Apparently, because this argument wasn’t raised in the post-conviction petition for relief, the court ruled that it had been waived. I don’t recall exactly when or even who on Adnan’s team figured out that incoming calls could not be used to reliably establish locations. Was that information known prior to the deadline to file the post-conviction petition? Regardless, the state’s case essentially falls apart if the cell phone records (and timeline) are placed in their proper context. It’s a harsh result to say the least, and sure doesn’t seem like justice.

Is this argument dead in the water? Or can it be raised in a motion for reconsideration in state court? Or raised in federal court?

 

From how I understand it, your assessment is correct. Susan Simpson from the Undisclosed team discovered the fax cover sheet that mysteriously went missing and was never shown to the cell expert.  Which would have been in 2014 or 2015, 4-5 years after Adnan filed his first motion, and after Serial aired.

Judge Welch allowed the cell tower argument to be made on the basis that Adnan did not knowingly waive his right to argue the cell phone claim, because Adnan's been locked up since he was 17 and couldn't be expected to understand complicated cell phone technology. 

The motion for reconsideration and federal route are long shots, but Colin Miller (Undisclosed team) thinks Adnan has a very good shot at winning a claim of ineffective assistance of postconviction counsel.  Basically the claim would be that Justin Brown fucked up by not presenting the cell tower claim in 2010.  And the Maryland courts have already deemed the cell tower claim a winning argument. Colin's take was that this process could happen fairly quickly, or it could take a few more years depending on how things unfold.

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lateshow

lateshow 1303

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, deech said:

If I had been in for 20 years for a crime I did not commit, fuck the entire system - I'm not taking an Alford plea or pleading guilty if I am innocent.  They can pull my innocent rotting bones from my cell.

Says the guy that obviously hasn't spent 20 years of his life in prison. 

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Player

Player 4575

Posted
Posted

I never listened to any of the podcast, so thanks for the clarification curly. 

If the fax cover sheet was not discovered until after the deadline for Adnan's initial petition for post-conviction relief had already passed, then I'm at a loss for how the appellate court could have construed that against him as a waiver. 

If anything, it would seem akin to newly discovered evidence that could serve as the basis for a new trial. 

I'm also curious about what Adnan's team may do with the results of the DNA tests. Hopefully the next round of briefing will be an "everything but the kitchen sink" effort. 

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Jerry Callo

Jerry Callo 8658

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Player said:

I never listened to any of the podcast, so thanks for the clarification curly. 

If the fax cover sheet was not discovered until after the deadline for Adnan's initial petition for post-conviction relief had already passed, then I'm at a loss for how the appellate court could have construed that against him as a waiver. 

If anything, it would seem akin to newly discovered evidence that could serve as the basis for a new trial. 

I'm also curious about what Adnan's team may do with the results of the DNA tests. Hopefully the next round of briefing will be an "everything but the kitchen sink" effort. 

Just because it hadn't been brought up or even noticed doesn't mean the defense didn't have access to it.  The person who identified the cover sheet to the cell phone records was reviewing documents in possession of the defense counsel.  Either no one else had read it or understood the possible significance of it earlier.

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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted (edited)

I couldn't remember all the discrepancies surrounding Don's timecard/alibi a few weeks ago.  So for fun I'll try to list them all, including recent developments.  First, let's establish Don's alibi.

Don worked at the Owings-Mills store with Hae.  He claims that he worked at the Hunt Valley store on 1/13/99 (the day Hae went missing). Don had the day off, but says he was covering someone's shift. One of Don's co-workers, "S.H." came forward recently, after part 1 aired. He was the guy being interviewed who told the story about the bandages/scratches on Don's hands. S.H. says that he would have been the guy Don claimed he was covering for.

•Before trial, the defense requested Don's employment records.  The prosecution should not have been aware of the request, but somehow was alerted to it, and contacted Lenscrafters for Don's records.  

•The first time card submitted by Lenscrafters to the prosecution showed that Don was not working on 1/13/99 (the day Hae disappeared) Uh-oh!

•A second time card was submitted by Lenscrafters to the prosecution showing Don did work that day.

•Time card #2 had a different employee ID number than time card #1.

•A Luxotica rep (Lenscrafters Corporate) stated that there is no explanation for the two separate employee IDs. The rep stated unequivocally that if a person used two different employee ID numbers on two different time cards within the same pay period, then one of the time cards has been falsified.

•Multiple Lenscrafters employees have all said the same thing: there is simply no way an employee would use two different employee ID numbers simultaneously. Your ID number was how you got paid. Lab techs used the number on their lab reports. The whole job was tied to your employee ID.

•Don said he worked a 9am-6pm shift on 1/13. And time card #2 reflects that. But there was no 9am-6pm shift on the schedule. The earliest lab tech shift that day - which Don could have been covering -  started at 11am.

•Time card #2 showed that Don worked over 40 hours that week, but he was not paid any overtime.

•Any real time changes to time cards had to be made within one week of the pay period. So, it seems that time card #2 was manipulated by 1/22/99 - weeks before Hae's body was found.

•The manager of the Hunt Valley store was Don's mom.

•The manager of the Owings-Mills store was Don's future stepmom.

•When SH came forward recently, he claimed that Don would cover shifts for him on the weekends, but not during the week, and any records showing Don working during the week at Hunt Valley were fabricated. SH seemed to have been in some kind of court-ordered rehab facility and was not allowed to work weekends. If you want to read his reddit posts, they're some interesting stuff there. One crazy detail about a peephole being drilled between the men's and women's bathrooms. SH also says Don is lying about not working since he was 23, and knows Don worked somewhere else for a few years.

https://imgur.com/a/L8yBR6X

 

Edited by CurlyDumps
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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Curly, wow. Thanks. 

Are there any good current Syed podcasts? Serial was great but hasn’t been updated since 2016. 

Undisclosed: Season 1 and Truth and Justice: Season 1.  

Undisclosed really gets into the weeds of the case. You'll quickly realize how much SK left out or didn't investigate. 

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Player

Player 4575

Posted
Posted

Curly - hoping you can clarify one more issue for me. I thought I heard them say last night that although none of the samples that were tested for DNA matched Adnan, there was at least one sample where there was a "hit", but unfortunately it was for someone whose DNA is not in any law enforcement registry. My question is which sample did the hit come from? Have DNA samples ever been collected from Don or Alonzo Sellers? 

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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted

The DNA hit came from a short rope or wire found 18 inches from Hae’s body.  DNA belongs to an unindentified female that did not match anyone in the LE database.  The 2 prints found on the car’s rear view mirror don’t match Jay, Adnan, or any of the cops. They haven’t been tested against anyone else AFAIK.  Alonzo Sellers has been arrested so his prints are probably in the system.  Don’s never been arrested, so his aren’t as far as we know.

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kevwun

kevwun 15595

Posted
Posted (edited)

Don would be a good suspect if not for Jay.  I just don't see how he wasn't involved and he doesn't have a connection to Hai without Adnan.  I don't see any reason he would have acted alone.  If the cops just wanted to solve the case, they could have just pinned it on all on Jay.  It would be pretty crazy to involve yourself in a murder case to beat a weed rap.  All it would have a taken was one person seeing Adnan at the right time and he has an alibi.  Instead Jay was with him that day for a long period of time that coincides when she went missing and Adnan can't remember anything about what they were doing for some weird reason.

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  • 7 months later...
RollLeft

RollLeft 5039

Posted
Posted
On 4/1/2019 at 6:27 PM, CurlyDumps said:

The DNA hit came from a short rope or wire found 18 inches from Hae’s body.  DNA belongs to an unindentified female that did not match anyone in the LE database.  The 2 prints found on the car’s rear view mirror don’t match Jay, Adnan, or any of the cops. They haven’t been tested against anyone else AFAIK.  Alonzo Sellers has been arrested so his prints are probably in the system.  Don’s never been arrested, so his aren’t as far as we know.

Jenn?

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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted

Holy shit. Didn't see this coming:

Adnan Syed Murder Conviction Should Be Vacated, Prosecutors Say

The State's Attorney filed a motion to vacate his conviction.

Quote

Prosecutors are requesting Mr. Syed be given a new trial. They said they weren’t asserting that Mr. Syed is innocent. “However, for all the reasons set forth below, the State no longer has confidence in the integrity of the conviction,” said the office of Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby, which is overseeing the reinvestigation. 

The office is recommending Mr. Syed be released on his own recognizance pending the continuing investigation. 

 

Quote

In their reinvestigation, prosecutors found a document in the state’s trial file detailing one person’s statement, saying that one of the suspects had motive to kill Ms. Lee and had threatened her in the presence of another person. The suspect said “he would make her [Ms. Lee] disappear. He would kill her,” according to the court filing. 

That information was never given to the defense, the filing said. Prosecutors are required by law to give defense counsel exculpatory evidence upon request. 

The reinvestigation also revealed that the grassy lot where Ms. Lee’s car was found in Baltimore was located behind a house that belonged to one suspect’s relative.

“This information was not available to the Defendant in his trial in 2000, and the State believes it would have provided persuasive support substantiating the defense that another person was responsible for the victim’s death,” prosecutors said in the filing. 

Further revelations include that one of the suspects, “without provocation or excuse,” attacked a woman he didn’t know while she was in her vehicle. One suspect was accused and later convicted of rape and sexual assault. Both incidents occurred after Mr. Syed’s trial, prosecutors said, but they added that they found the information relevant given the possible involvement of the suspects.  

The motion also calls into question the validity of cellphone records and data, which were an important piece of evidence for the prosecution in Mr. Syed’s original trial, as well as a key witness’s testimony.

“There is an abundance of issues that gives the State overwhelming cause for concern,” prosecutors said as they requested a new hearing in the case.

The reinvestigation of Ms. Lee’s murder is continuing, and prosecutors said they plan to ensure justice for the victim.

 

 

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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Juicy said:

please tell me it was don's relatives house

Says one of the suspects was convicted of rape and sexual assault, so seems like it's someone totally off the radar.  One of the suspects could be the person who found Hae's body. I really have no idea. Dying to know who they are.

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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted
On 3/25/2019 at 10:03 AM, Catdaddyhorn said:

I used to think Jay was guilty of murdering Hae, but now I think it's probably more likely in my mind that the other boyfriend or a random stranger (the guy who discovered her body) killed her.  One thing is for sure is it isn't Adnan. 

 

On 3/25/2019 at 2:50 PM, hopkinsnhorns said:


I'm with the surveyor dude - no one would have walked that far astray to take a piss and stumble upon that body.  I think he either did it himself or was told about her location by someone else and used the piss story to help bring closure to her family.

 

If "Mr. S" aka Alonzo Sellers is one of the new suspects, you guys may have fucking nailed it. I never really felt he was a strong suspect.

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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4439

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

One can only imagine how much evidence is lost or thrown away by the police or DA because they recognize it help the defense. Once you’re convinced the suspect is guilty, anything challenging that prosecution has gots to go.

Which reminds me of Hae's pager records in this case. Hae owned a pager. Her friends told police she had a pager. A schoolmate told police Hae got a page the day she went missing that caused her to change her plans that afternoon.

Who paged her? We don't know. Because the police NEVER PULLED HAE'S PAGER RECORDS FROM THE DAY SHE WENT MISSING. Or did they? Did they just not like that the records pointed away from Adnan?

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