Mass College Admission Cheating Scandal

[mulletpelini 5211]

12 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

She sounds fucking stupid to me.

she sounds like a lot of fucking stupid parents nowadays.  She just has more money than they do.  

[Guest]

On 5/13/2019 at 7:06 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Actually no it isn't.  There are countless studies that indicate that criminal punishments do not deter crime.  That was pretty well accepted when I was in law school, nearly 30 years ago.

Many criminals don't consider consequences at all, some disregard them, most don't think they'll get caught, and almost all of them are unaware of the penalty ranges for the offenses they commit.

Prison absolutely affects those who are not yet criminals... but to your point, probably has  little to no effect upon those who think they are above the law.

 

There are people on a daily basis that we encounter that deserve straight up ass beatings.  They don't get them because the 'normal' people don't want to relinquish their own liberty.

Edited May 15, 2019 by slorch

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, slorch said:

Prison absolutely affects those who are not yet criminals... but to your point, probably has  little to no effect upon those who think they are above the law.

 

There are people on a daily basis that we encounter that deserve straight up ass beatings.  They don't get them because the 'normal' people don't want to relinquish their own liberty.

My thoughts exactly. It most certainly keeps a portion of the population from committing crimes, People bent on being crooked are gonna do it regardless.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

It would be a huge tragedy if her relationship with her daughters deteriorated to the point that her daughters rebelled and started doing stuff she didn't approve of.

[Beau Vine 54238]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

It would be a huge tragedy if her relationship with her daughters deteriorated to the point that her daughters rebelled and started doing stuff she didn't approve of.

Well, as long as she doesn't approve of porn.

[Huckleberry 32880]

No big shock on the Loughlin relationship with her daughter. Insisting that your children go to college when they don't need to or shouldn't is a problem in more than just elite circles, hence the ridiculous student debt problem around the country. It's just that it goes from sad to disgusting when the reason is your own vanity (Loughlin and other elites) versus just not knowing any better (middle class families still thinking college is the only way to success).

[Bateshorn 9928]

I'm going through this now with my oldest son.  We have a very clear eyed assessment of his scores and grades. He's a strong student, but he's not going to get in to any truly elite schools.  Instead it's a careful dance of how to strategically deploy your early decisions, while thinking about your regular decisions match and safety schools.  I've had conversations with some of his friends parents whose kids I know are basically equivalent and it's shocking where they think their kid is going to get in?  Your daughter has a 3.6/1400 and you think they are getting into Duke or Vanderbilt?  Bless your heart...

OTOH, as a NESCAC grad, if I were the coach of an obscure sport right now at Williams/Amherst/Pomona/Bowdoin/Carleton,  I'd be sweating some serious bullets. Preferred admissions are no bullshit and it's a racket rich parents have been playing for years.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Bateshorn

[Brisketexan 105151]

1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Blue Gill "Crappie" is SO yummy.

Way, way back in HS I knew a Vietnamese family and his son was our age.

We went fishing, which is odd in retrospect that we did and he kept all the blue Gill we caught.

His brother/cousin/uncle/dad (not sure) "filleted" them and cooked (pan fried) them bone in and they started munching them.

I passed.

/Csbthreadshit

Cool threadshit.  I remember fishing on various Galveston fishing piers when the first Vietnamese started showing up in Texas.  They'd be out on the piers, in the conical hats and everything, with a 5 gallon bucket -- they'd walk up to folks and ask in very broken English if instead of throwing back the little trash fish we caught (undersize whiting, piggy perch, whatever), to toss it in their bucket.  They would collect a bucket FULL of various "small fish" -- which we figured were going home to end up in some sort of soup or the fryer.

Also heard a lot of angry slurs from folks as they walked by -- lotta "fucking gooks" and such.  In SOME fairness....the Vietnam War was only a few years in the rearview mirror, and a good number of these fisherman had been shot at by Vietnamese dudes in recent memory.  Doesn't make it right, and it was uncomfortable as shit at the time....but it was clearly a product of that time.

I bet I woulda liked those whole fried fish.

[Fudge Nuggets 19194]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I bet I woulda liked those whole fried fish.

In Thailand this is one of my go to's:

 

 

[mulletpelini 5211]

World needs underwater welders too. 

[TwiceHorn 31488]

11 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool threadshit.  I remember fishing on various Galveston fishing piers when the first Vietnamese started showing up in Texas.  They'd be out on the piers, in the conical hats and everything, with a 5 gallon bucket -- they'd walk up to folks and ask in very broken English if instead of throwing back the little trash fish we caught (undersize whiting, piggy perch, whatever), to toss it in their bucket.  They would collect a bucket FULL of various "small fish" -- which we figured were going home to end up in some sort of soup or the fryer.

Also heard a lot of angry slurs from folks as they walked by -- lotta "fucking gooks" and such.  In SOME fairness....the Vietnam War was only a few years in the rearview mirror, and a good number of these fisherman had been shot at by Vietnamese dudes in recent memory.  Doesn't make it right, and it was uncomfortable as shit at the time....but it was clearly a product of that time.

I bet I woulda liked those whole fried fish.

Bluegill and other sunfish are among the best-eating freshwater fish, right up there with crappie, and walleye "pike."  They're a little fiddly to eat and those bones are sharp, but bigger ones taste like largemouth bass, basically because they are.

[SDG 3319]

Pat Haden May have been involved.

 

[Beau Vine 54238]

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but didn't Haden have some shady charity/foundation that was paying him an exorbitant amount to be on the board and also paying lots of his relatives?

[Beau Vine 54238]

3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but didn't Haden have some shady charity/foundation that was paying him an exorbitant amount to be on the board and also paying lots of his relatives?

Yes, you dumbass, it's mentioned in the article that SDG posted.  RIF, fucktard.

[huge 3793]

12 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Yes, you dumbass, it's mentioned in the article that SDG posted.  RIF, fucktard.

Yeah.  COME ON MAN>

[Sbbruin 21858]

If Haden DID have dealings with Singer, he's fucked.  Cuz that dude is gonna sing like a canary for the feds.

[hayden_horn 11362]

2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

If Haden DID have dealings with Singer, he's fucked.  Cuz that dude is gonna sing like a canary for the feds.

it says so, right there in his name

[Beau Vine 54238]

12 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

If Haden DID have dealings with Singer, he's fucked.  Cuz that dude is gonna sing like a canary for the feds.

Exactly, and I think it would have come out early if he had dealings with Singer.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

Shouldn't someone even remotely involved want to come forward to cooperate, or at least be prepared to come forward if you see that you're separated by one degree from someone else under investigation?  I wouldn't want to be the last person involved in an investigation when the feds could care less what info you have to offer.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

On 5/7/2019 at 5:21 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah that would pretty much guarantee many more scam artists, white collar criminals, and burglaries.  Prison is THE one thing that deters a large segment of the population from committing crimes.

And yet Europe has far less of all those crimes without having a recidivist "pound them in the ass" prison system.

Our biggest problem is that prison here is a business and business is good.  There are way too many people feeding off the gravy train for us to have meaningful reform or a reduction in the number of incarcerated.  The average cost of housing a prisoner in the USA is $31,000 a year.  20% are non-violent drug offenders.  A large percentage are non-violent offenders of other types.  Now imagine you take away 20 or 30% of the prisoners in Huntsville.  The warden isn't going to stand for that.  The mayor of Huntsville isn't going to stand for that.  The governor isn't going to stand for that.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

I think more white collar criminals should be put in prison and not get a slap on the wrist.   I do agree it's wrong to send them to a prison with violent offenders.   If you're well-off or even wealthy, the biggest personal threat to you from the govt is losing your freedom.  However the wealthy person convicted of a crime seems to usually get hit with a fine, which for some white collar criminals is usually paid by corporate funds.  And some community service requirement which is a joke.

Trust me, if the Desperate Housewives star had thought she had a chance to go to prison for her actions, she most likely would have not gone forward.  When you send her to prison or jail for a few months, it will stop 100 others from doing the same.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I think more white collar criminals should be put in prison and not get a slap on the wrist.   I do agree it's wrong to send them to a prison with violent offenders.   If you're well-off or even wealthy, the biggest personal threat to you from the govt is losing your freedom.  However the wealthy person convicted of a crime seems to usually get hit with a fine, which for some white collar criminals is usually paid by corporate funds.  And some community service requirement which is a joke.

Trust me, if the Desperate Housewives star had thought she had a chance to go to prison for her actions, she most likely would have not gone forward.  When you send her to prison or jail for a few months, it will stop 100 others from doing the same.

Hell yes, send white collar guys to prison (non violent, but very uncomfortable) and fine the ever living fuck out of companies that are shown as complicit.

[Dennis Taylor 18829]

On 5/7/2019 at 4:46 PM, Johnny Sack said:

I’d legalize all drugs.  Most drug offenders in prisons aren’t there for weed. 

they should probably be free too then, so people using them won't have to rob people to pay for them 

[woohorn 1131]

Pat Haden May have been involved.
 

So we're gettin' Bru back?

[Steel Shank 9426]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

When you send her to prison or jail for a few months, it will stop 100 others from doing the same.

Bingo. This is what happens when women are placed behind bars:

 

[RomaVicta 29909]

2 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

And yet Europe has far less of all those crimes without having a recidivist "pound them in the ass" prison system.

Our biggest problem is that prison here is a business and business is good.  There are way too many people feeding off the gravy train for us to have meaningful reform or a reduction in the number of incarcerated.  The average cost of housing a prisoner in the USA is $31,000 a year.  20% are non-violent drug offenders.  A large percentage are non-violent offenders of other types.  Now imagine you take away 20 or 30% of the prisoners in Huntsville.  The warden isn't going to stand for that.  The mayor of Huntsville isn't going to stand for that.  The governor isn't going to stand for that.

Excellent post. The Europeans did not adopt the phrase "get tough" to deal with every issue they have. We declare "war" on drugs and proceed to waste huge amounts of money attacking the supply side of what is a demand-side problem.

We throw 'em jail to show we're tough and eat up the false notion that this deterrent will reduce potential criminals to abject fear. Even worse, we cheer prison rape.

Our national character increasingly takes on the aspects of an insecure adolescent boy fearful of being thought weak. We overuse the military as a solution. We go hard on non violent criminals or children seeking asylum.

And none of it works worth a fuck.

Our prisons and attitudes toward prisons are a national disgrace. You're right about the money aspect of resistance to change. I would add the mental health aspect of a nation determined to be seen as badasses without the quiet confidence of an actual badass.

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by RomaVicta

[huge 3793]

2 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

And yet Europe has far less of all those crimes without having a recidivist "pound them in the ass" prison system.

Our biggest problem is that prison here is a business and business is good.  There are way too many people feeding off the gravy train for us to have meaningful reform or a reduction in the number of incarcerated.  The average cost of housing a prisoner in the USA is $31,000 a year.  20% are non-violent drug offenders.  A large percentage are non-violent offenders of other types.  Now imagine you take away 20 or 30% of the prisoners in Huntsville.  The warden isn't going to stand for that.  The mayor of Huntsville isn't going to stand for that.  The governor isn't going to stand for that.

So the warden's opinion and the mayor of Huntsville's opinion and the governor of Texas...their opinions about keeping the prison full, that's what is fueling this?

ok

Maybe there is more nuance to it than that?  On a thread about academic fraud?

[TwiceHorn 31488]

36 minutes ago, huge said:

So the warden's opinion and the mayor of Huntsville's opinion and the governor of Texas...their opinions about keeping the prison full, that's what is fueling this?

ok

Maybe there is more nuance to it than that?  On a thread about academic fraud?

Well, nevermind a stupid and fearful electorate with whom you can almost never go wrong by throwing more nasty violent druggy (brown or other other) people in jail.  Or claiming to.

The money and the status quo bias the politicians toward doing the expedient (and profitable) rather than the right, more difficult thing.

Texas is actually something of a leader in alternatives to incarceration.  Because our pols tend to know how to squeeze a dollar.  And, I think, because we have places like UT where actual good thinking happens from time to time, and that manages to leak its way down to the Capitol.

Edited June 6, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Asithappens 974]

On 5/7/2019 at 4:21 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

 Prison is THE one thing that deters a large segment of the population from committing crimes.

Maybe for you and your ilk.

America really has gone to the shitter with this mentality.

Time to move to Scandinavia.

[Rimbo 25941]

2 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Maybe for you and your ilk.

America really has gone to the shitter with this mentality.

Time to move to Scandinavia.

Yep. Prison makes you feel bad about the thing you did after you did it. It doesn't really affect your behavior before or during.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, huge said:

So the warden's opinion and the mayor of Huntsville's opinion and the governor of Texas...their opinions about keeping the prison full, that's what is fueling this?

ok

Maybe there is more nuance to it than that?  On a thread about academic fraud?

On a thread about a non-violent crime that will result in jail time, where an individual suggested that non-violent crimes should not result in jail. 

And yes, they are keeping the prisons full because they have captured the Republican Party in the name of law enforcement and corrections. It should come as no surprise to you that people whose livelihoods rely entirely on populated jail cells will do whatever it takes to make sure those jail cells stay populated. 

[smokebomb 357]

12 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

If Haden DID have dealings with Singer, he's fucked.  Cuz that dude is gonna sing like a canary for the feds.

Don’t you mean sing like a Song Girl?

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

I’ve actually done a fair amount of research on consequences and better ways to change behavior through my work as a school administrator. Consequences such as detention are the kid version of jail time. There is the same underlying philosophy that people want to avoid this so they won’t do whatever behavior we are trying to get them to stop. The good news is that this approach works well for 95% of people. The bad news is that those were likely the people that were going to follow the rules regardless of the consequences because they have the skill set to do so. It doesn’t do a damn bit of good for the people that lack problem solving skills, frustration tolerance, social skills/awareness, etc.

We often mistake a persons failures to follow the rules as a lack of willingness. This means our philosophy on how do deal with it is rooted in tools related to motivation - rewards and consequences. You could often offer these people a million dollars to do certain things and they would not be able to. It’s not a motivation issue, it’s a skills issue and that’s why our jails are largely a failure with high recidivism rates.

I actually look at the people in the college cheating scandal and think they are generally in the 95% that can have their behavior influenced by rewards and consequences. I think jail time would be effective for deterring this type of behavior. I also think 1 month would do just as much good as 18.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

12 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I’ve actually done a fair amount of research on consequences and better ways to change behavior through my work as a school administrator. Consequences such as detention are the kid version of jail time. There is the same underlying philosophy that people want to avoid this so they won’t do whatever behavior we are trying to get them to stop. The good news is that this approach works well for 95% of people. The bad news is that those were likely the people that were going to follow the rules regardless of the consequences because they have the skill set to do so. It doesn’t do a damn bit of good for the people that lack problem solving skills, frustration tolerance, social skills/awareness, etc.

We often mistake a persons failures to follow the rules as a lack of willingness. This means our philosophy on how do deal with it is rooted in tools related to motivation - rewards and consequences. You could often offer these people a million dollars to do certain things and they would not be able to. It’s not a motivation issue, it’s a skills issue and that’s why our jails are largely a failure with high recidivism rates.

I actually look at the people in the college cheating scandal and think they are generally in the 95% that can have their behavior influenced by rewards and consequences. I think jail time would be effective for deterring this type of behavior. I also think 1 month would do just as much good as 18.

It's this. The possibility of prison time dissuades most people. There are some that think they're gonna get away with it for many reasons, but the threat of time behind bars works for most people of that "ilk" whatever the fuck that was supposed to mean (see: as shithappens, time for him to move to Scandinavia I guess).

[CDAK 216]

I think some of yall have romanticized versions of prisons in Europe.  Maybe those romanticized versions are semi-accurate in Finland and Norway.  They aren't accurate in France, Italy,  the UK, etc.

Edited June 7, 2019 by CDAK

[Johnny Sack 8397]

19 hours ago, Asithappens said:

Maybe for you and your ilk.

America really has gone to the shitter with this mentality.

Time to move to Scandinavia.

Good luck with the Scandinavian immigration system.  You better be rich and white.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

18 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

On a thread about a non-violent crime that will result in jail time, where an individual suggested that non-violent crimes should not result in jail. 

And yes, they are keeping the prisons full because they have captured the Republican Party in the name of law enforcement and corrections. It should come as no surprise to you that people whose livelihoods rely entirely on populated jail cells will do whatever it takes to make sure those jail cells stay populated. 

The stringent sentencing guidelines and mandatory minimums were a bipartisan reaction to the crack epidemic that was scaring the shit out of people in the inner cities.  That's why those laws had very strong support from the democrats and black communities.  You don't get to re-write history.

[smuggs 9353]

16 minutes ago, CDAK said:

I think some of yall have romanticized versions of prisons in Europe.  Maybe those romanticized versions are semi-accurate in Finland and Norway.  They aren't accurate in France, Italy,  the UK, etc.

 

I've dreamt of romantic European prisons a time or two.

[Rimbo 25941]

4 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

For prison to work as a deterrent the threat of being caught and long terms must be present. This is only true if the person is vested in society. By that I mean they have assets both emotional and financial that they are afraid of losing.

It does work if you have room in prisons for violent offenders for that group.

When you suddenly feel an impulse out of envy or fury or what have you to do something that might happen to be illegal, the consequences of your actions are not present in your mind.

If you're premeditating something, then you'll be considering the consequences of your actions... possibly.

 

[Brisketexan 105151]

5 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I’ve actually done a fair amount of research on consequences and better ways to change behavior through my work as a school administrator. Consequences such as detention are the kid version of jail time. There is the same underlying philosophy that people want to avoid this so they won’t do whatever behavior we are trying to get them to stop. The good news is that this approach works well for 95% of people. The bad news is that those were likely the people that were going to follow the rules regardless of the consequences because they have the skill set to do so. It doesn’t do a damn bit of good for the people that lack problem solving skills, frustration tolerance, social skills/awareness, etc.

We often mistake a persons failures to follow the rules as a lack of willingness. This means our philosophy on how do deal with it is rooted in tools related to motivation - rewards and consequences. You could often offer these people a million dollars to do certain things and they would not be able to. It’s not a motivation issue, it’s a skills issue and that’s why our jails are largely a failure with high recidivism rates.

I actually look at the people in the college cheating scandal and think they are generally in the 95% that can have their behavior influenced by rewards and consequences. I think jail time would be effective for deterring this type of behavior. I also think 1 month would do just as much good as 18.

Just wanted to quote this, because it's spot-on.

For guys like you and me -- people who are invested in society -- the consequences matter.  There are many reasons I don't commit a serious crime (say, embezzlement).  First and foremost, I have an ethical and moral compass.  But the fact that, if I committed such a crime, I would lose EVERYTHING that I've worked for: my career and professional reputation, my livelihood, the respect of my family and peers -- that has a deterrent effect as well.

In short, for folks with something to lose, the prospect of a criminal conviction and jail time has a deterrent effect.  But for people with nothing to lose....the criminal system has little deterrent effect at all.

[Js1 85352]

That’ll learn him 

 

[hayden_horn 11362]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

That’ll learn him 

 

i understand the symbolic nature of one day in prison, but what a waste of resources and everybody's time.

[Pato del Muerto 52505]

The fact that Stanford has a sailing team, and that it probably gives them directors cup points every year, irks me. It’s a craw sticker. 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

59 minutes ago, Js1 said:

That’ll learn him 

 

more like zero days.

Quote

U.S. District Court Judge Rya W. Zobel sided with defense lawyers who said their client should not get more than the one day, which the judge dismissed as time served.

 

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

I was gonna say, one day but with good behavior he'd only get like 13.5 hrs

[alincoln 2372]

According to the feds he was the lowest priority of all defendants because he used the scam to finance his sailing program as opposed to pocketing it and none of the students on whose behalf the bribes were made actually benefited (1 went through the normal application process and the other 2 went to different schools).  

[happyfunball 481]

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

24 minutes ago, happyfunball said:

 

She probably should have turned down that last facelift and check implant.  From the article post here, I'm kinda having major schadenfreude for her, and her husband at this point.  She's gonna look smoking' Hot in an orange jumpsuit for several years I hope.

[ChickenSandwich 9838]

Comment section

”Whatever happened to predictability “

[Lhorn 4914]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 From the article post here, I'm kinda having major schadenfreude for her, and her husband at this point.  She's gonna look smoking' Hot in an orange jumpsuit for several years I hope.

I hope she is released, perhaps with an accommodation from the state for her work on Full House in fighting drug use and truancy. Her husband on the other hand should be caged like an animal and never allowed to breathe free air with good, honest, God fearing folk.