Where would Ramonce Taylor stand in UT football history had he never gotten into any trouble?

[Goo Punch 4275]

He burst onto the scene after we lost Ced B to graduation, Erik Hardeman to the very same type of problems that would later kill RT's career, and an early season ankle injury to Selvin Young. He appeared out of nowhere (not to those who followed him in HS obviously) he dominated immediately, and he never looked back. He's pound for pound probably one of the 5 or 6 best football players to ever play here. Certainly top 10. He's a national title game hero, and one of the freakiest athletes to ever wear burnt orange, every bit as freaky as Metcalf, or Robsion, or Goodwin, if not even more so.

So, where would he rank all time in UT player history had he never gotten trouble? What's crazy to think about is that the game has changed so much since 2005 that a guy like RT would be gone to the NFL in today's game after having the season he did in 2005. He'd probably be a damn top 15-20 pick. But as i recall he was going to return, and would have been the focal point of our offense in what was already a pretty good team. You have to imagine that he would have won some national accolades, and could have even been in the Heisman race. Of all of the "What could have been" stories from Texas- Rosie Leaks, Mossy Cade, Mike Wacker, Colt McCoy, and so on- I think that RT is right up at the top with any of them in terms of potential greatness that didn't come to fruition for one reason or another.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Goo Punch

[alincoln 2364]

GOAT

[Nivek 16859]

Off season...

Since I was not around for the majority of Texas football I can not say. Most of these are silly discussion points centered around recent memory. I would however put his skill above Kyle Porter, and his head below Brett Robin’s skill.

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

He was only going to be a junior in '06, correct? So assuming he played in '06-'07, I'm not sure he would have had a much larger role than he did in '05. Jamaal Charles was a better RB and he was there both of those years (and was maybe the best back in college football in '07). Selvin Young was still there in '06 also. He could play WR too, but probably not much more featured than he was in '05. 

Ramonce was really good, and could have been great, but not sure he would have been a top-10 player in program history. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Hank Chinaski

[Sgt Hulk 13648]

Reggie bush would carry his jock 

[Murfdogg21 4412]

Adding RT to that 2006 squad (with an improving JC splitting carries) would have helped Colt that much more. Would it have made us beat Ohio St in Austin? Probably not but who knows if RT breaks a KR, short pass, or slot reverse to the house. He definitely could’ve/would’ve pushed us over KSU and A&M that year. You are looking at 11-1/12-0 regular season and a berth in a BCS game if not championship game. That level of exposure and success along with the sick stats he’d have piled up, and you’d think he’d be no worse than a 3rd round pick. He’d be beloved by UT fans to a greater extent than Jamaal Charles, Roy Williams, and others if the above scenario had played out with back-to-back BCS CG appearances and the second with a RS-FR QB. Had he put up Heisman contending stats, sky’s the limit. 

[South Austin 52144]

41 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

He's a national title game hero

No, he was not a "hero" of our title win over USC.  He had 4 carries for a total of 12 net yards.  Yes, he had a nice 30 yard touchdown run in the second quarter to give us 6 of our 41 total points.  But he was not a hero of that game.

And yes, he could be electrifying, but he was not "dominating."  Here are his stats before he got himself kicked off the team after the 2005 season:

2004:  284 rushing yards, 64 receiving yards.

2005:  513 rushing yards, 265 receiving yards.

And if he had stayed on the team, he would have been behind Jamaal Charles for the 2006 and 2007 seasons (and probably Selvin Young in the 2006 season). 

To answer your question, I can't really speak to players before 1994, the year I got to Texas and became a Longhorn fan.  If Ramonce stayed healthy and out of trouble, I'd rank him below the likes of Vince, Colt, Ricky, Cedric, Jamaal, Roy, Quan, Shipley, Derrick Johnson, Earl Thomas, Quentin Jammer, Tony Brackens, Michael Huff, Aaron Ross, David Thomas, Casey Hampton, Brian Orakpo, and Dan Neil.  I could probably name some others.  So not sure he'd make my top 20.

Edited March 12, 2019 by South Austin
Romance, Ramonce, whatever . . . .

[SA-KC_Horn 1295]

I think RT's skillset fits better into today's RPO/ZR game than in 05 & 06. 

 

[Tex Pete 20179]

52 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

He burst onto the scene after we lost Ced B to graduation, Erik Hardeman to the very same type of problems that would later kill RT's career

Remember: Ramonce was kicked out of school for grades before the drug thing ever happened.

RT was a freak athlete, but he was not especially great as either a WR or RB. He was a great tweener. He was tough for other teams to account for regardless of where he lined up. As Mack said at the time, Ramonce was the fastest player he had ever coached, and that included guys like Michael Huff.

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, Hank Chinaski said:

He was only going to be a junior in '06, correct? So assuming he played in '06-'07, I'm not sure he would have had a much larger role than he did in '05. Jamaal Charles was a better RB and he was there both of those years (and was maybe the best back in college football in '07). Selvin Young was still there in '06 also. He could play WR too, but probably not much more featured than he was in '05. 

Ramonce was really good, and could have been great, but not sure he would have been a top-10 player in program history. 

 

RT wasn't an RB, he was an all purpose back and kick returner who would have been lined up all over the field and who would have been Colt McCoy's safety blanket. He was the most explosive all around play maker Texas has had in my lifetime, and a Reggie Bush/Percy Harvin/Tavon Austin type of player. He would have had a monster season and, with the way Texas played that year before Colt's injuries, would have been the star player on a potentially top 10 team.

[texashorne 1177]

The 2006 team would have been incredible with him, just like the 2008 team would have been incredible had Jamaal Charles stuck around. 

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

No, he was not a "hero" of our title win over USC.  He had 4 carries for a total of 12 net yards.  Yes, he had a nice 30 yard touchdown run in the second quarter to give us 6 of our 41 total points.  But he was not a hero of that game.

And yes, he could be electrifying, but he was not "dominating."  Here are his stats before he got himself kicked off the team after the 2005 season:

2004:  284 rushing yards, 64 receiving yards.

2005:  513 rushing yards, 265 receiving yards.

And if he had stayed on the team, he would have been behind Jamaal Charles for the 2006 and 2007 seasons (and probably Selvin Young in the 2006 season). 

To answer your question, I can't really speak to players before 1994, the year I got to Texas and became a Longhorn fan.  If Ramonce stayed healthy and out of trouble, I'd rank him below the likes of Vince, Colt, Ricky, Cedric, Jamaal, Roy, Quan, Shipley, Derrick Johnson, Earl Thomas, Quentin Jammer, Tony Brackens, Michael Huff, Aaron Ross, David Thomas, Casey Hampton, Brian Orakpo, and Dan Neil.  I could probably name some others.  So not sure he'd make my top 20.

uh, i'll go ahead and call anyone who scored a 30 yard TD in the greatest game of all time vs the greatest team of all time a title game hero without a second thought. Griffin and Huff and our secondary got torched and abused all second half and couldn't stop USC's WR's at all. Are they also not allowed to be called national title game heroes? It's only Vince, and I guess David Thomas? No way.

As for using his stats as evidence that he's somehow not one of the best football players we've ever had, that is completely disingenuous. Do you think that he would have had those same numbers if you replaced Percy Harvin at Florida or Tavon Austin at WVU with RT? Of course not. He's every bit the player both of those guys were if not better, despite the overwhelming statistical difference.

His talent is unquestioned, the only real question about his production would be how well GDGD utilized him. And as others have noted, Texas had a pretty damn good team that year that only would have been that much better with RT. He'd have been a huge contributor on a highly ranked team that could have won another BCS bowl. To use his stats against him is either disingenuous or short sighted at best. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

Tavon Austin in 2012- 114 catches, 1,289 yards, 12 TD

72 carries, 643 yards (8.9/rush), 3 TD

186 scrimmage touches, 1,942 yards, 10.4 yards per touch, 15 TD

dont tell me that RT's stats tells the story. he and Tavon Austin are at least equals as college football players, even if the stats are insanely different. blame the era and the OC, don't diminish the player because of his circumstances.

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

I think RT's skillset fits better into today's RPO/ZR game than in 05 & 06. 

 

big time. hence my comment about his draft status were he playing his college ball today. a player who has his 2005 season for any of the recent Bama or Clemson teams is a first round pick easy, and possibly even a top 10 pick after his combine/pro day performances.

 

[Helobious 9481]

Lol at “national title game hero”

He was a very good player, heavy on talent but very light on football smarts. Truly great players have both those skills, so Ramonce would never have been an all-time great if he never got in trouble. He probably would’ve just repeated his sophomore year stats his junior year, maybe adding a couple hundred yards to each total. His skillset is more useful today than it was back then.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

RT not in trouble would rank right behind Edwin Simmons with self-discipline. That 1983 8+ ypc average had us all thinking he really was the second coming of Earl. And RT had us all thinking Eric Metcalf had come again.

Neither was true.

[Machinator 32097]

If you had to compile a list of "heroes" from the title game, he would not crack anyone's top 5.

[hookem48 4631]

When he scored his td against USC everyone including USC knew they had no chance in hell of stopping our offense and that we were faster than anything they had faced, they were screwed and they knew it. 

[South Austin 52144]

10 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

uh, i'll go ahead and call anyone who scored a 30 yard TD in the greatest game of all time vs the greatest team of all time a title game hero without a second thought. Griffin and Huff and our secondary got torched and abused all second half and couldn't stop USC's WR's at all. Are they also not allowed to be called national title game heroes? It's only Vince, and I guess David Thomas? No way.

As for using his stats as evidence that he's somehow not one of the best football players we've ever had, that is completely disingenuous. Do you think that he would have had those same numbers if you replaced Percy Harvin at Florida or Tavon Austin at WVU with RT? Of course not. He's every bit the player both of those guys were if not better, despite the overwhelming statistical difference.

His talent is unquestioned, the only real question about his production would be how well GDGD utilized him. And as others have noted, Texas had a pretty damn good team that year that only would have been that much better with RT. He'd have been a huge contributor on a highly ranked team that could have won another BCS bowl. To use his stats against him is either disingenuous or short sighted at best. 

No, Ramonce was no more a hero in that title game than Selvin Young was, which is to say neither were a hero. And on that TD, Ramonce had a hole so wide that Mark Mangino could’ve run through it.

And I’m just answering your question, which I quote for you since you seem to have forgotten it: “So, where would he rank all time in UT player history had he never gotten trouble?”  Stats play a big part of a player’s ranking among the Longhorn greats, regardless of whether a player has the misfortune of sharing snaps with guys like Cedric Benson, Selvin Young, and Jamaal Charles.  Unfortunately for you, that’s where Ramonce was during his time at Texas and where he would remain had he not been booted from the team.

There’s nothing disingenuous about considering stats when ranking the all-time greats on the college or pro level.  Your nostalgic what-might-have-been boner for Romance is preventing you from understanding that.

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

34 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

 

RT wasn't an RB, he was an all purpose back and kick returner who would have been lined up all over the field and who would have been Colt McCoy's safety blanket. He was the most explosive all around play maker Texas has had in my lifetime, and a Reggie Bush/Percy Harvin/Tavon Austin type of player. He would have had a monster season and, with the way Texas played that year before Colt's injuries, would have been the star player on a potentially top 10 team.

Yeah I agree mostly, just saying I don't think he would have been used like Harvin/Tavon Austin in 06-07. If your point is about his physical ability, I'm with you; I just don't think he would have been used enough in the Mack/GD offense to generate the production - given the other guys on the team, the scheme (generally fairly conservative), etc. But yeah - he absolutely makes the 06-07 teams much better on offense. 

As for explosive playmakers - I'd put Jamaal Charles ahead of Taylor. 

[Dennis Taylor 18706]

there's a nearly 5 minute video of him doing this kind of shit, i agree with the previous opinions that he wasn't a pure RB or a pure WR, but holy shit trying to account for shit like this with Jamaal Charles on the field as well would not have been easy  in 2006

 

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

23 minutes ago, South Austin said:

No, Ramonce was no more a hero in that title game than Selvin Young was, which is to say neither were a hero. And on that TD, Ramonce had a hole so wide that Mark Mangino could’ve run through it.

And I’m just answering your question, which I quote for you since you seem to have forgotten it: “So, where would he rank all time in UT player history had he never gotten trouble?”  Stats play a big part of a player’s ranking among the Longhorn greats, regardless of whether a player has the misfortune of sharing snaps with guys like Cedric Benson, Selvin Young, and Jamaal Charles.  Unfortunately for you, that’s where Ramonce was during his time at Texas and where he would remain had he not been booted from the team.

There’s nothing disingenuous about considering stats when ranking the all-time greats on the college or pro level.  Your nostalgic what-might-have-been boner for Romance is preventing you from understanding that.

I thought I was supposed to be the overly sensitive one who couldn't handle a differing opinion? sorry for touching a nerve.

first off i obviously disagree with your take on what a constitutes a championship game hero, and i'm very curious to hear who all you'd consider to be a championship game hero from 2005. My guess is that your view on this in the minority compared to most fans. 

second, your entire argument boils down to, "he doesn't have all time great stats therefore he could never be considered an all time great at Texas". you seem to be opposed to considering any context *but* stats, which is a weak argument when we're talking about capturing the hearts of the fans who root for you. Texas went 24-1 in RT's two years here and then won 10 more games the next year, which surely would have been more with RT in the squad. If RT's teams finish with a three year record of 36-2 or thereabouts, three BCS bowl wins, and a national title, then imo there's every chance that RT would have been considered a Texas football legend, with an all time great highlight reel to boot. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Goo Punch

[DaggerHorns 3058]

2 hours ago, alincoln said:

GOAT

I’m on this one. I said it in the Rose Bowl. I thought that he had a more than legit shot at the Heisman. He had the fastest field speed I’ve ever witnessed. When he walked on a rope and made the corner against Mizzou, I thought he was all-time type special. There were dozens and dozens of times he was carrying the ball past someone that looked as if they were standing still.

The speed was absolutely lethal. Lethal as fuck.

[Goo Punch 4275]

10 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Yeah I agree mostly, just saying I don't think he would have been used like Harvin/Tavon Austin in 06-07. If your point is about his physical ability, I'm with you; I just don't think he would have been used enough in the Mack/GD offense to generate the production - given the other guys on the team, the scheme (generally fairly conservative), etc. But yeah - he absolutely makes the 06-07 teams much better on offense. 

As for explosive playmakers - I'd put Jamaal Charles ahead of Taylor. 

I agree with you re: our offense not being tailored (no pun intended) to his skill set. I would just point that the exact phrase I used was "most explosive all around play maker", due to his versatility. he caught passes, he got carries, he returned kicks; remember this stat from 2005: only Reggie Bush, VY, and RT had a catch, throw, and run of 50+ yards all in that one season. RT made plays all over the field in a way that no other player in UT history did, and it only would have been that much more significant with an extra year.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

Man - that end-around TD against Ok St his freshman year was the best play of one of the most fun games I've attended at DKR - comeback from 35-7 down. 

[South Austin 52144]

5 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

I thought I was supposed to be the overly sensitive one who couldn't handle a differing opinion? sorry for touching a nerve.

first off i obviously disagree with your take on what a constitutes a championship game hero, and i'm very curious to hear who all you'd consider to be a championship game hero from 2005. My guess is that your view on this in the minority compared to most fans. 

second, your entire argument boils down to, "he doesn't have all time great stats therefore he could never be considered an all time great at Texas. you seem to be opposed to considering any context *but* stats, which is a weak argument when we're talking about capturing the hearts of the fans who root for you. Texas went 24-1 in RT's two years here and then won 10 more games the next year, which surely would have been more with RT in the squad. If RT's teams finish with a three year record of 36-2 or thereabouts, three BCS bowl wins, and a national title, then imo there's every chance that RT would have been considered a Texas football legend, with an all time great highlight reel to boot. 

You’re clearly the sensitive one as always, in response to folks like me who are offering reasonable, rational, non-passionate arguments with some modicum of factual support.

And just scroll through the replies and you’ll see I’m not the only one questioning your hero label.

And I laugh at how you refer to “RT’s teams,” further reflecting a level of subjective bias you have in this discussion.

Persistent chicken-fucking Derka is best Derka.

[Goo Punch 4275]

8 minutes ago, South Austin said:

You’re clearly the sensitive one as always, in response to folks like me who are offering reasonable, rational, non-passionate arguments with some modicum of factual support.

And just scroll through the replies and you’ll see I’m not the only one questioning your hero label.

And I laugh at how you refer to “RT’s teams,” further reflecting a level of subjective bias you have in this discussion.

Persistent chicken-fucking Derka is best Derka.

I believe that you believe that you aren't being overly sensitive in the face of a differing opinion. i'll give you that much. The bottom line here is that you don't seem to have any understanding as to what goes into making someone a hero among the fan base. For example you "laugh" at the idea that team success plays any role in whether or not a player is considered a legend for his program, and see it as "subjective bias", when the truth of the matter is team success plays an integral role in how a star player is remembered long after he's done playing. That alone tells me that there's no point trying to discuss with you any further. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Goo Punch

[6th Street 6357]

Talent would have been wasted in a Greg Davis offense even if he could have stayed 

[South Austin 52144]

38 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

I believe that you believe that you aren't being overly sensitive in the face of a differing opinion. i'll give you that much. The bottom line here is that you don't seem to have any understanding as to what goes into making someone a hero among the fan base. For example you "laugh" at the idea that team success plays any role in whether or not a player is considered a legend for his program, and see it as "subjective bias", when the truth of the matter is team success plays an integral role in how a star player is remembered long after he's done playing. That alone tells me that there's no point trying to discuss with you any further. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 hours ago, Machinator said:

If you had to compile a list of "heroes" from the title game, he would not crack anyone's top 5.

Okay so he's one of the 5 or so best players on the greatest team of all time, helped lead the team to a 13-0 regular season, and then scored an explosive play TD in the Longhorns national championship win known as the greatest game of all time. Good enough to mention when talking about his legacy, or totally irrelevant because Greg Davis didn't get him enough stats?

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

I think the three best football players on the team were VY, Huff, and RT. One is the actual GOAT, and the other is one of the best college DB's of his generation. That's the group he's in on the 2005 Texas team in my book. That's pretty elite status. Earl Thomas is another guy in this class but from a different team- just a game breaking, dominating player from day one on some of the best teams in Texas history. 

[markstanco 12507]

3 hours ago, South Austin said:

I can't really speak to players before 1994, the year I got to Texas and became a Longhorn fan.

Your Mom knows pre-94 pretty well. 

[South Austin 52144]

6 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Your Mom knows pre-94 pretty well. 

 Now she’s a real hero.

[mr.goodkat 464]

i would love for rt to be in the top 10 discussion . however with our track record , despite coaching staffs , he likely wouldn't have progressed to that level . just seen too many "quick twitch" tweeners  not live up to our (outrageous) expectations . yes ,he was a good player with exceptional talent .  yes ,he was a "troubled" young man so , no , he does not deserve to be in that tier . one could also argue that his detrimental behavior likely would have worsened with more adulation . 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

A top 5 UT player would have found his way onto an NFL roster as some point.

[Gil Bang 25898]

"If he hadn't gotten into trouble".

He was a fucking idiot.  He was never  gonna NOT get in trouble. 

[Helobious 9481]

He’s like the anti-Fozzy Whittaker. An extremely versatile player that was just too stupid to ever make the most of his talent. Fozzy was less talented than Ramonce but had the smarts to make himself into a greater football player than Ramonce was. 

Fun fact: Guess which one of those 2 players had more career kick return TD’s.

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

A top 5 UT player would have found his way onto an NFL roster as some point.

yeah, because there weren't any extenuating circumstances or anything, he just wasn't good enough. that's the ticket. 

besides i was talking about talent and not production when i said that. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Goo Punch

[goatsaag 279]

3 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

I think the three best football players on the team were VY, Huff, and RT. One is the actual GOAT, and the other is one of the best college DB's of his generation. That's the group he's in on the 2005 Texas team in my book. That's pretty elite status. Earl Thomas is another guy in this class but from a different team- just a game breaking, dominating player from day one on some of the best teams in Texas history. 

There's no world where Ramonce Taylor is a better football player than Jamaal Charles.

[Goo Punch 4275]

17 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

There's no world where Ramonce Taylor is a better football player than Jamaal Charles.

really? no world? that's insane. RT is more versatile, just as fast and explosive, and without all of the injury problems. He can line up all over the field on offense and he returns kicks and is an even better athlete than jamaal by some measure. I don't see Jamaal in his league at all as a college football player. If I were starting a team today I wouldn't hesitate to take RT over Jamaal. I can find another good RB somewhere. I can't find another RT unless it's Harvin/Bush/Austin/some other all american freak athlete. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Goo Punch

[USNALonghorn 5024]

I can see him helping push the 2006 squad up to 11-1 and getting us to a BCS bowl had he stuck around. That squad had an amazing receiver corps and a great true running back with Jamaal Charles. Having him on the field in his hybrid role would have made it a nightmare for opposing defensive coordinators. Also, like mentioned above, he would have taken some pressure off of Colt McCoy and maybe not have forced him to run as much (possibly preventing KSU injury). Either way, 2006 would have been a much more memorable year.  

If he had made it to 2007, Colt's sophomore slump may not be as severe and he could push us to win over OU, getting us to 10-2 and potentially a BCS bowl, as well.

As far as national/all-time relevance goes, he would always have been hamstrung by the coaching staff. We could have the same debate about Marquise Goodwin and Jerrod Heard (as QB). Judging based on his athleticism and on-field performance, I believe he could have been a Tavon Austin or De'Anthony Thomas level player when paired with a good offensive mind at HC/OC. 

I also would love to see what Tom Herman and Co. would do with a player like that.

[goatsaag 279]

4 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

really? no world? that's insane. RT is more versatile, just as fast and explosive, and without all of the injury problems. He can line up all over the field on offense and he returns kicks and is an even better athlete than jamaal by some measure. I don't see Jamaal in his league at all as a college football player. If I were starting a team today I wouldn't hesitate to take RT over Jamaal. I can find another good RB somewhere. I can't find another RT unless it's Harvin/Bush/Austin/some other all american freak athlete.  

Yes, really. You can be delusional about Ramonce's football ability if you want, but yeah, Jamaal was far superior as a football player (and athlete).

[Surly Bevo 24696]

Probably be on the ceiling with DJ

[cochamps 1879]

This seems like an odd rabbit hole to go down, IMO.  I will go with DKR’s quote:  “what coulda happened did”.

[Goo Punch 4275]

3 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

Yes, really. You can be delusional about Ramonce's football ability if you want, but yeah, Jamaal was far superior as a football player (and athlete).

lmao at you calling anybody delusional here. ask literally anyone who was at UT while RT was there who the best athlete on the team was and every single person you talk to will have the same answer: It was RT, and it's not even close. Brian Robison was a better athlete than Jamaal. So was Huff. We probably had even more guys, but I don't feel like thinking that hard over something so obvious.

Jamaal's best traits as a pure athlete are his speed and his ability to change directions, he's at best RT's equal in speed, and they're pretty damn close agility wise. RT is also bigger, taller, stronger, can jump higher, can jump farther, can play multiple positions, has better hands, and could have played major D-1 hoops or been a major D-1 track athlete at more than just sprints. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Valmy77 13094]

1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

lmao at you calling anybody delusional here. ask literally anyone who was at UT while RT was there who the best athlete on the team was and every single person you talk to will have the same answer: It was RT,

When I order that cupcake from Michael Griffin I will ask him.

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

When I order that cupcake from Michael Griffin I will ask him.

RT and B Rob used to have legendary dunk contests at the time. I'm serious, ask literally anyone from that team. Everybody knows it's RT, and Jamaal ain't even in the discussion. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

7 minutes ago, cochamps said:

This seems like an odd rabbit hole to go down, IMO.  I will go with DKR’s quote:  “what coulda happened did”.

what rabbit hole is that?

[goatsaag 279]

14 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

RT and B Rob used to have legendary dunk contests at the time. I'm serious, ask literally anyone from that team. Everybody knows it's RT, and Jamaal ain't even in the discussion. 

I played basketball with Ramonce while he (and I) were at Texas...

This is a dumb argument though so continue having fun with it.

[Valmy77 13094]

3 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

I played basketball with Ramonce while he (and I) were at Texas...

B Rob?