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Where would Ramonce Taylor stand in UT football history had he never gotten into any trouble?

Goo Punch

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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40 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

I played basketball with Ramonce while he (and I) were at Texas...

This is a dumb argument though so continue having fun with it.

lol. it's always funny when someone knows he's wrong so he calls the argument dumb and quits. this "argument" is exactly why these types of forums exist. i have no idea why some of you are so emotionally invested in this, but it's funny watching people lose their shit over a simple disagreement. i get it now. all of the people who've purposely wound me up before. it's way more fun to be on this side of the exchange. sorry that my differing opinion has you in your feelings. 

 

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goatsaag

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7 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

lol. it's always funny when someone knows he's wrong so he calls the argument dumb and quits. this "argument" is exactly why these types of forums exist. i have no idea why some of you are so emotionally invested in this, but it's funny watching people lose their shit over a simple disagreement. i get it now. all of the people who've purposely wound me up before. it's way more fun to be on this side of the exchange. sorry that my differing opinion has you in your feelings.

See it could be that. Or it could be that I realize you're too invested in the idea that you've built up in your head of Ramonce to understand that you are being delusional and he was not anything close to a top 5 player on the title team or on track to be an all time great player for Texas so it really isn't worth much more time than saying "you're wrong".

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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i don't understand the people who don't understand what a message board is for. i also don't understand these same people's incredulity when the OP defends his stance when met with opposition. it's called a discussion, it's the literal purpose of this board, and it has nothing to do with being "aggy". 

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Nivek

Nivek 17409

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Okay so he's one of the 5 or so best players on the greatest team of all time, helped lead the team to a 13-0 regular season, and then scored an explosive play TD in the Longhorns national championship win known as the greatest game of all time. Good enough to mention when talking about his legacy, or totally irrelevant because Greg Davis didn't get him enough stats?

 

RT was closer to Killabrew in that game than David Thomas. Or Drew Kelson.

 

VY, griffins, DT, Robison, Ross, orakpo, O-line. Sweed, Young.

 

RT wasnt close to any of these guys.

 

 

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Macanudo

Macanudo 13320

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Goo...  Kind of curious how Colt is a "What could have been."   He finished in the running for a Heisman and was the winningest D1 QB when he left school.   I'll go to my deathbed believing that if he doesnt get hurt against Bama, we win that game by two scores.  

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Goo Punch

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8 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Goo...  Kind of curious how Colt is a "What could have been."   He finished in the running for a Heisman and was the winningest D1 QB when he left school.   I'll go to my deathbed believing that if he doesnt get hurt against Bama, we win that game by two scores.  

yeah that's what i'm referring to. runner up for the heisman twice and then gets hurt vs bama. he should be an ncaa legend, and not just some guy thrown into the mix of great qbs from the aughts.

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markstanco

markstanco 12786

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"If he hadn't gotten into trouble".
He was a fucking idiot.  He was never  gonna NOT get in trouble. 
Agree. We all saw what he was capable of at the rose bowl. He was retarded and I'm sure he regrets his decisions. It happens every year to an athlete at every school. Dumbasses.
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markstanco

markstanco 12786

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jamaal charles is/was unquestionably a better football player than ramonce taylor.  
come on now.
Truth. But op thinks he is a top 5 ever at texas. With Jamaal and Vince on the SAME team. But ricky and Earl? They suck. So does that Street guy back in 69. And tommy Nobis? Another spare. No way he could have got a GRAND TOTAL of 800 yards in his career.

Priest Holmes? Loser.
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Bullneck

Bullneck 19519

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58 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Goo...  Kind of curious how Colt is a "What could have been."   He finished in the running for a Heisman and was the winningest D1 QB when he left school.   I'll go to my deathbed believing that if he doesnt get hurt against Bama, we win that game by five scores.  

42-10.

(I'm not even going to bother counting how many scores that is, but it would have looked like Bama's last outing in January).

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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1 hour ago, BigOrange1 said:

jamaal charles is/was unquestionably a better football player than ramonce taylor.  

come on now.

i'm not talking about stats or even performance at Texas- i'm talking about being an all around football player, and I couldn't have been more clear about that. RT was a better all around player than Jamaal, even if he didn't have as big of a role as Jamaal. Jamaal did one thing and he did it exceptionally. RT did many things, and did them all exceptionally. It's not even a question which one is a more well rounded football player, and seeing as both were elite college players, the guy who plays TB, WR, and KR > the guy who does one of those things. 

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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1 hour ago, markstanco said:

Truth. But op thinks he is a top 5 ever at texas. With Jamaal and Vince on the SAME team. But ricky and Earl? They suck. So does that Street guy back in 69. And tommy Nobis? Another spare. No way he could have got a GRAND TOTAL of 800 yards in his career.

Priest Holmes? Loser.

That's not what I said, but of course that's never mattered on this site or the old one. the retarded, sensationalized version is so much juicier that who gives a fuck if it's totally made up. 

AGAIN- i *could not* have been more clear that I'm talking about RT *as an all around football talent* AND NOT what he accomplished in the field. He *might* be a top 40 or 50 player in UT history based on what he did at Texas, but based solely on *the ability to play multiple football positions at an elite leve* that RT is up there with the best ever at Texas.

You take what I say, you make it into something completely different, and then you mock your own made up take that nobody but you ever gave. It's like clockwork. Oh and cue the "it's never your fault" crowd right now. Not that they're all that wrong. I never approached saying the things that ole stanco here claims I did, but don't let gbag stop you from doing what you're going to do no matter what I say. 

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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just went back and looked up exactly what i said-  "he's poind for pound probably one of the five or six best football players we've ever had." even if it's hyperbole it's a)not that far off as he's definitely in the conversation for top 10, and b)i'm clearly not saying that he's one of the five or six greatest players ever to play In saying that like Metcalf, and Goodwin, and even Vince and Roy, and Priest, and other *multi talented* players who could seemingly do it all, that RT is among the best we've had. It's not an even remotely controversial opinion, and it's certainly nowhere near saying that RT was better than Nobis, Vince, Earl, and Ricky.

I mean give me some fucking credit here, what kind of fan knows about Rosie Leaks and Mossy Cade's "what could have been" stories but then also thinks that Ramonce Taylor was a greater player than Lane, Street, and Nobis? Give me a break. I'm clearly talking about his ability to play multiple positions at a high level, and not te stats he accrued during his two seasons.

Some of our all time greatest who only played one position- Young, Nobis, Sisemore, etc, would certainly be considered for the distinction of "pound for pound  best", but so would other less celebrated players like Metcalf, Huff, Jones, RT, and Priest- guys who could have played a multitude of positions at an extremely high leve because of their athletic gifts and football talent. That's literally all i'm talking about, and i can't be more clear than that.

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Goo Punch

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11 minutes ago, realgreggym said:

Not top 30 all time.

i just said that.

also, here's another super simple way to understand it- how many positions could jamaal have played at an elite level? TB annnnd...??? How about RT? Aside from already playing three positions at a high level, i'm guessing he could have been an elite CB or S if he wanted to, on top of him already being elite getting carries, playing both outside WR and slot, and returning kicks. It's not a debate, it's a fact- he's one of the most talented all around players to ever play at Texas. Whether he's top 5 or top 10 isn't that big of difference to me- he's an all time talent. 

saying that jamaal charles is a better pound for pound football player than RT is like saying that Floyd Mayweather is a better pound for pound boxer than Sugar Ray Robinson. 

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South Austin

South Austin 53222

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7 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

lol. it's always funny when someone knows he's wrong so he calls the argument dumb and quits. this "argument" is exactly why these types of forums exist. i have no idea why some of you are so emotionally invested in this, but it's funny watching people lose their shit over a simple disagreement. i get it now. all of the people who've purposely wound me up before. it's way more fun to be on this side of the exchange. sorry that my differing opinion has you in your feelings. 

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markstanco

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8 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

That's not what I said, but of course that's never mattered on this site or the old one. the retarded, sensationalized version is so much juicier that who gives a fuck if it's totally made up. 

AGAIN- i *could not* have been more clear that I'm talking about RT *as an all around football talent* AND NOT what he accomplished in the field. He *might* be a top 40 or 50 player in UT history based on what he did at Texas, but based solely on *the ability to play multiple football positions at an elite leve* that RT is up there with the best ever at Texas.

You take what I say, you make it into something completely different, and then you mock your own made up take that nobody but you ever gave. It's like clockwork. Oh and cue the "it's never your fault" crowd right now. Not that they're all that wrong. I never approached saying the things that ole stanco here claims I did, but don't let gbag stop you from doing what you're going to do no matter what I say. 

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Goo Punch

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you ever get drunk, passionately engage in an argument that's totally not worth it, act like a child, and then wake up the next day regretting it? yeah me neither.

lol, fwiw i do stand by my contention that RT is one of the most talented, versatile guys we've ever had as a football player at UT, but that wasn't a hill i needed to die on. 

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Goo Punch

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7 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I mean Jamaal and Selvin did start over him...

not exactly. RT wasn't a RB and he *was* a starter, so no, i don't think that you can say that either of those guys "started over him". That's like saying that Chris Rainey and Jeff Demps started over Percy Harvin. 

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Your Mom

Your Mom 4971

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 I’ll take a team full of 11 guys who only play one specific position but are great at that one specific position  and they will kick the shit out of your team of 11 well-rounded players that can play 3 positions each. 

 It’s not a contest to see who can play the most positions like your mom... wait what?  Being able to play three positions does not make him a better player. Being well rounded is not the same as being better. 

 This is stupid.   Ramonce was good and could’ve been great but Jamal was better. 

Edited by Your Mom
12? Wtf? It’s too early
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Goo Punch

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13 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

 I’ll take a team full of 11 guys who only play one specific position but are great at that one specific position  and they will kick the shit out of your team of 11 well-rounded players that can play 3 positions each. 

 It’s not a contest to see who can play the most positions like your mom... wait what?  Being able to play three positions does not make him a better player. Being well rounded is not the same as being better. 

 This is stupid.   Ramonce was good and could’ve been great but Jamal was better. 

i agree that your premise is stupid. nobody is talking about starting a team of 11 RT's vs a team of 11 Jamaal's, i'm talking about which player was more versatile- that's literally it. the amount of people in this thread (and really on the football board in general) who for whatever reason cannot comprehend these types of simple, contextual arguments is baffling to me. also, the idea that you'd rather start a team with one guy who excels at one position over another guy who excels at five is, well, not all that unsurprising given your inability to understand the basic premise of this debate.

Which football player was better at UT, RT or Jamaal? The answer is Jamaal. Nobody is debating that. Nobody ever has. Which player is a better all around football player, aka which one could start/contribute for a championship level team at 3-5 different positions as opposed to one?The answer is RT. This is not a debate, nor is it even germane to the OP. 

Someone asked me why I even start these threads, and the answer is I don't know. I don't know why I expect the denizens of this board to be able to grasp elementary school level context when they've proven beyond a doubt that it's an impossible ask. Jamaal was a better player at UT. RT was more versatile. Really controversial stuff. 

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Your Mom

Your Mom 4971

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  I didn’t say anything about 11 JCs vs 11 RTs either.  I said  I’d take a team where the defensive tackle is only great at defensive tackle, the wide receiver is great at being a wide receiver, the running back is great at being a running back, the weak side linebacker is great at being a weak side linebacker, etc... 

RT was versatile.  We get it. He was.  My argument is that versatility does not necessarily mean he’s a better football player than JC.   It makes him the more well-rounded player but it doesn’t necessarily make him a better football player than a guy that plays one position at a higher level.   If I’m picking players for a team I’m going to pick the one that’s greatest at the  specific position I need.  For running back I’m picking JC, Ricky, Ced and a bunch of others over RT. At receiver I’m picking Roy, Shipley,  Mike Adams, and a bunch of others before RT.  At kick returner I’m taking DJ.  Basically if I’m going to pick 11 (or 22 for that matter) all-time UT greats to field a team, RT would not be one of them.  Yes he’s the most versatile. My argument is that versatility is not a valuable as you’re making it out to be.   

 

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Llano Estacado

Llano Estacado 1257

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I’d put him somewhere south of Quan Cosby and north of Limas Sweed if I was making a list of guys I’d want on my team.  So probably top 50 of that decade.  


Billy Pittman is open! Loved that guy. Leading receiver in every category in 2005.

Yards from scrimmage 778. RT yards from scrimmage 778.

BP 34 receptions for 750, 22.1 avg, 5 TDs
RT 27 receptions for 275, 9.8 avg, 3 TDs
BP 2 carries for 28 yards, 14 avg, 0 TDs
RT 76 carries for 513 yards, 6.8 avg, 12 TDs

I contend GFDavis should have rushed Pittman more for a change of pace.

Also if you’re interested:
Pino - 0 TDs 113 pts
RT - 12 rushing 3 receiving, 90 pts
JCharles - 11 rush, 2 rec, 78
VY - 12 rush, 72 pts
Melton - 10 rush, 60 pts
Selvin - 8 rush, 48 pts
Pittman - 5 rec, 30 pts
DT - 5 rec, 30 pts.

One could argue if Pittman was selected as the change of pace back over RT he’d have a larger spot in the record books. Not sure if the Bells Palsy got worse or if he just never had the connection with Colt. He just kind of faded away in 06 & 07.

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South Austin

South Austin 53222

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8 minutes ago, Llano Estacado said:

 


Billy Pittman is open! Loved that guy. Leading receiver in every category in 2005.

Yards from scrimmage 778. RT yards from scrimmage 778.

BP 34 receptions for 750, 22.1 avg, 5 TDs
RT 27 receptions for 275, 9.8 avg, 3 TDs
BP 2 carries for 28 yards, 14 avg, 0 TDs
RT 76 carries for 513 yards, 6.8 avg, 12 TDs

I contend GFDavis should have rushed Pittman more for a change of pace.

Also if you’re interested:
Pino - 0 TDs 113 pts
RT - 12 rushing 3 receiving, 90 pts
JCharles - 11 rush, 2 rec, 78
VY - 12 rush, 72 pts
Melton - 10 rush, 60 pts
Selvin - 8 rush, 48 pts
Pittman - 5 rec, 30 pts
DT - 5 rec, 30 pts.

One could argue if Pittman was selected as the change of pace back over RT he’d have a larger spot in the record books. Not sure if the Bells Palsy got worse or if he just never had the connection with Colt. He just kind of faded away in 06 & 07.
 

 

We’re not supposed to post statistics and other facts. They make Derka cry.

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Goo Punch

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2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Jamaal was faster than Ramonce.  Ramonce's fastest 100 was a 10.66.  And was measured at 4.5 in the 40.

Jamaal's best was 10.18 and he ran a 4.38 at the combine.

Jamaal and Huff were the fastest two guys on the 2005 team.

 

i agree re: Huff and Jamaal being the two fastest guys on the team in terms of timing/track, but i don't know that i agree that either of them was faster on the field than RT. Jamaal being an all Big-XII level sprinter certainly makes it totally unsurprising that he would time better than RT, but on the field and in pads it was *close*, imo.  

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Goo Punch

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here's the college stats of another player in the RT mold:

102 carries, 534 yards (5.2 ypc), 1 TD

31 catches, 281 yards (9.1 ypc), 1 TD

133 scrimmage touches, 815 yards (6.1 ypt), 2 TD

Man, that is underwhelming, especially considering that everyone knows that stats tell the entire story. I mean Desmond Roland started over this guy at RB, ipso facto Demond Roland >>>> this guy. I know that if I were starting a college team today that I would definitely want to take Desmond Roland over this Tyreek Hill guy. Duh.

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Goo Punch

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4 minutes ago, Lerka Lerka said:

Not sure you could go wrong there. Quan had plenty of football talent. 

Quan was the anti-RT. Quan was a fully grown man with a great head in his shoulders who was totally professional, and got the absolute max out of his talent while being one of the focal points of a high octane offense with a veritable Drew Brees clone throwing him passes. The ga t that he had an NFL career speaks to his character and commitment as a complete, finished-product football player.

RT was a young, brash knucklehead with more god given talent than anyone else in the locker room save Vince Young, who was a cog in the machine that was the 2005 Texas offense. While he did make the most of his touches in 2005, what he did not do was make the most of his talent, or even approach maxing out as a football player like Quan did. 

As a football player- solely as a moldeable slab of football talent that a coach would want to select for his team and then develop- It's RT >>>>>>> Quan Cosby. And it's RT > Jamaal in that regard as well, imo. 

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