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Christchurch, NZ mosque shooting

Brisketexan

By Brisketexan
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SHOOTER12

SHOOTER12 8810

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Well I guess I've been doing it wrong for 57 years. I am a strong conservative, I am also a Christian, but I guess I'm goofing it up. I have no hatred towards anyone, nor do I feel the need to commit violence against anyone, much less any particular group of people. Even after reading multiple, multiple posts throughout this board and the old board denigrating Christianity I refuse to be offended or angered by it. To tell the truth I actually pray for those who are not Christian and insist on saying hateful ugly things.

I guess I'm really going to have to work on myself since I as a Christian I'm not what people expect me to be nor what they claimed me to be.

Edited by SHOOTER12
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Bevo
Bevo

A lot of people on here need timeouts. Go back to the fucking politics board you twats.

Hook1997
Hook1997

Crazy is going to crazy, people trying make these things political are full of shit.  And yes save it for the cloakroom.   No party has any part of any of the shit like this it’s crazy people, this bl

SHOOTER12
SHOOTER12

Take your vitriolic shit back to your room and stay there.

ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9046

Posted
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16 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Well I guess I've been doing it wrong for 57 years. I am a strong conservative, I am also a Christian, but I guess I'm goofing it up. I have no hatred towards anyone, nor do I feel the need to commit violence against anyone, much less any particular group of people. Even after reading multiple, multiple posts throughout this board and the old board denigrating Christianity I refuse to be offended or angered by it. To tell the truth I actually pray for those who are not Christian and insist on saying hateful ugly things.

I guess I'm really going to have to work on myself since I as a Christian I'm not what people expect me to be nor what they claimed me to be.

I've only checked this thread a few times to see if it's improved (lulz), so forgive me if this has already been discussed.  Did this guy kill on behalf of his Christian faith, or did he kill these other people because he hated their faith?  A handful of posters on Surly are quick to shit on Christians, but are they doing it on behalf of another religion, or are they simply anti- Christian or anti-religion in general?  This may sound trivial to some, but I think it's an important distinction.

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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I find it hypocritical and funny that some are so quick to admonish one religion while believing their religion is only full of love and rainbows while completely ignoring the text of said religion or the past 1000 years of murder, rape, and subjugation. 

And the mere suggestion that the two religions are quite similar has made them lose their minds. Why? Because they believe one is bad and that other is good. 

Edited by Neonmoon
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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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24 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I find it hypocritical and funny that some are so quick to admonish one religion while believing their religion is only full of love and rainbows while completely ignoring the text of said religion or the past 1000 years of murder, rape, and subjugation. 

And the mere suggestion that the two religions are quite similar has made them lose their minds. Why? Because they believe one is bad and that other is good. 

Why are you being so obtuse....

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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1 minute ago, cactusflinthead said:

Come on then, defend it. This thread has brought out some of the worst parts of us. Dismissing entire sections of Jewish existence as immaterial or unread or unimportant or just what the hell is he trying to say? 

You don't believe any of it. I know.

What are your Asking me to defend ? 

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Cajun

Cajun 11714

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7 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Come on then, defend it. This thread has brought out some of the worst parts of us. Dismissing entire sections of Jewish existence as immaterial or unread or unimportant or just what the hell is he trying to say? 

You don't believe any of it. I know.

Best when read in the voice of Walter Sobchak.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Come on then, defend it. This thread has brought out some of the worst parts of us. Dismissing entire sections of Jewish existence as immaterial or unread or unimportant or just what the hell is he trying to say? 

You don't believe any of it. I know.

While you are factually correct and I was wrong, I suspect you're missing the bigger picture.  Baruch ata Adonai mon frere.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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NBMisha

NBMisha 224

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Posted

Switching gears a bit, what kind of screwed up building code allows for a single door for a large mosque/church?   Fire concerns alone should not allow this.  

I'd put this in the institutional lessons along with the gun control ideas.  Of course, NZ not being the US and not having a 2nd ammendment cult, the discussion should be ok.

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6704

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Switching gears a bit, what kind of screwed up building code allows for a single door for a large mosque/church?   Fire concerns alone should not allow this.  
I'd put this in the institutional lessons along with the gun control ideas.  Of course, NZ not being the US and not having a 2nd ammendment cult, the discussion should be ok.

You mean not having a 2nd amendment.

I’m not sure why you would build a building with only one exit. Is that just the way they do those types of things in other countries? Mouse and one hole type shit.
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105152

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13 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:


You mean not having a 2nd amendment.

I’m not sure why you would build a building with only one exit. Is that just the way they do those types of things in other countries? Mouse and one hole type shit.

That really doesn't make sense, to the point that I suspect that reporting is inaccurate on that point.  That has nothing to do with safety from shooters - it's a fire code issue, and in the West at least, fire codes are pretty similar.  And the "you gotta have more than one way to escape a fire" rule has been around a long time.

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 25952

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3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Anyone heard any details on the Utrecht shooting?  I didn't see a separate thread here and it appears to be a still developing story.

UTRECHT, Netherlands (Reuters) - A gunman shot dead three people and wounded nine on a tram in the Dutch city of Utrecht on Monday and police said they were hunting for a 37-year-old Turkish man after an apparent terrorist attack.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-shooting/gunman-kills-three-in-dutch-tram-police-hunt-for-turkish-man-idUSKCN1QZ10X

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BlueGreySky

BlueGreySky 1012

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55 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

I wasn’t sure if they had different codes at the bottom of the globe or not. I couldn’t see building anything like that. Also didn’t know if it was maybe a mosque thing either.

The church office my mom worked in (until November) was a death trap.  So glad she retired.  12 offices, reception area - one door.  I have no idea how it passed code when it was build in '83.   I complained for years that it was not just a fire hazard, but a worst-case-scenario hazard.

Edited by BlueGreySky
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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

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23 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I find it hypocritical and funny that some are so quick to admonish one religion while believing their religion is only full of love and rainbows while completely ignoring the text of said religion or the past 1000 years of murder, rape, and subjugation. 

And the mere suggestion that the two religions are quite similar has made them lose their minds. Why? Because they believe one is bad and that other is good. 

They’re not remotely the same. I am reading God in the Qur’an by Jack Miles right now. It’s amazing how different the Qur’an is in telling the stories of Abraham, Joseph, Moses, etc from the real source, the Bible. Of course, Mohammad was an impostor, every great thinker from Maimonides to St John of Damascus called Mohammad out for his supposed prophesy. As Maimonides said, which other prophet of God came with a sword to kill unbelievers. 

The Qur’an is the ethos of the Arab people, one based on fanaticism and forced submission to Allah rather than the forgiveness, grace and mystery of the one true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus Christ.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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The Golden Hat

The Golden Hat 299

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On 3/17/2019 at 6:57 PM, SHOOTER12 said:

Well I guess I've been doing it wrong for 57 years. I am a strong conservative, I am also a Christian, but I guess I'm goofing it up. I have no hatred towards anyone, nor do I feel the need to commit violence against anyone, much less any particular group of people. Even after reading multiple, multiple posts throughout this board and the old board denigrating Christianity I refuse to be offended or angered by it. To tell the truth I actually pray for those who are not Christian and insist on saying hateful ugly things.

I guess I'm really going to have to work on myself since I as a Christian I'm not what people expect me to be nor what they claimed me to be.

I am not a Christian, and I have no hatred towards anyone, nor do I feel the need to commit violence against anyone, much less any particular group of people. What do I win?

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1742

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24 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

They’re not remotely the same. I am reading God in the Qur’an by Jack Miles right now. It’s amazing how different the Qur’an is in telling the stories of Abraham, Joseph, Moses, etc from the real source, the Bible. Of course, Mohammad was an impostor, every great thinker from Maimonides to St John of Damascus called Mohammad out for his supposed prophesy. As Maimonides said, which other prophet of God came with a sword to kill unbelievers. The only real question is whether he was a demonic agent or if he was just motivated by lust for plunder and murder. 

The Qur’an is the ethos of the Arab people, one based on fanaticism and forced submission to Allah rather than the forgiveness, grace and mystery of the one true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus Christ.

1 Kings 18:36-40; 19:10-15; Pretty much all of Chapter 20

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105152

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They’re not remotely the same. I am reading God in the Qur’an by Jack Miles right now. It’s amazing how different the Qur’an is in telling the stories of Abraham, Joseph, Moses, etc from the real source, the Bible. Of course, Mohammad was an impostor, every great thinker from Maimonides to St John of Damascus called Mohammad out for his supposed prophesy. As Maimonides said, which other prophet of God came with a sword to kill unbelievers. 
The Qur’an is the ethos of the Arab people, one based on fanaticism and forced submission to Allah rather than the forgiveness, grace and mystery of the one true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus Christ.

I don’t know what’s funnier, Icono actually reading Jack Miles or Icono thinking that he understands it.
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SHOOTER12

SHOOTER12 8810

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1 hour ago, The Golden Hat said:

I am not a Christian, and I have no hatred towards anyone, nor do I feel the need to commit violence against anyone, much less any particular group of people. What do I win?

Peace...of mind & spirit.

Or seemingly so, until you die anyway and then things make a tragic turn.

Edited by SHOOTER12
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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

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12 minutes ago, Hate said:

I don't know, but here's a "church" bombing that killed 20 but didn't warrant a thread on Surly.  Weird.  It was over a month ago but no mention that I can find.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/27/asia/philippines-church-explosion/index.html

It doesn’t fit the manufactured narratives of white nationalism stoked by Trump even though the NZ terrorist stated he wasn’t inspired by our orange guy and Islamophobia which is the most overblown thing imaginable. It was just another massacre of Christians by Muslims that has happened in Egypt, Syria, and too many other places and times to keep count.

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ajax

ajax 2618

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14 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Forgive me for interrupting this great theology debate but any word on the others arrested? 

All I could find is that 3 were arrested. A man and a woman had weapons. The woman was released and there's some indication that the man was trying to help. The victims, not the shooter.

And the other arrest was "tangential" whatever the hell that means. They should clarify that. If this dude is another violent racist, I think we would want to know.

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6704

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I know it's somewhat symbolic but I like how the NZ PM will not speak the shooters name.  A colleague in AU says the shooters name is all but ignored down there.  Certainly it's not hard to find but maybe that's a start.

That’s a good thing. The insane notoriety that they get from it is a reason for some of these sick fucks.
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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18014

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New Zealand Prime Minister announces immediate ban on all assault weapons

New Zealand will ban military-style semi-automatic and assault rifles under tough new gun laws following the killing of 50 people in the country's worst mass shooting, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said on Thursday.

In the immediate aftermath of Friday's shootings at two mosques in Christchurch, Ms Ardern labelled the attack as terrorism and said New Zealand's gun laws would change.

"On 15 March our history changed forever. Now, our laws will too. We are announcing action today on behalf of all New Zealanders to strengthen our gun laws and make our country a safer place," Ms Ardern told a new conference.

“All semi-automatic weapons used during the terrorist attack on Friday 15 March will be banned."

Ms Ardern said she expects the new laws to be in place by April 11 and a buy-back scheme will be established for banned weapons.

The buyback would cost up to NZ$200 million ($138 million), she said.

All military style semi-automatics (MSSA) and assault rifles would be banned, along with parts used to convert weapons into MSSAs and all high-capacity magazines.

Under existing New Zealand gun laws, A-category weapons can be semi-automatic but limited to seven shots. Live-streamed video of a gunman in one of the mosques showed a semi-automatic weapon with a large magazine.

Australia banned semi-automatic weapons and launched a gun buy-back after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 in which 35 people were gunned down.

Ms Ardern said that similar to Australia, the new gun laws will allow for strictly enforced exemptions for farmers to conduct pest control and animal welfare.

"I strongly believe that the vast majority of legitimate gun owners in New Zealand will understand that these moves are in the national interest, and will take these changes in their stride."

Floral tributes to those who were gunned down at the two mosques are seen against a wall bordering the Botanical Garden in Christchurch - Credit:  MARTY MELVILLE/AFP Floral tributes to those who were gunned down at the two mosques are seen against a wall bordering the Botanical Garden in Christchurch Credit:  MARTY MELVILLE/AFP

New Zealand, a country of less than 5 million people, has an estimated 1.2-1.5 million firearms, around 13,500 of them MSSA type weapons.

Most farmers in the Pacific country own guns, which they use for killing pests such as possums and rabbits, and for putting down injured stock.

Recreational hunting of deer, pigs and goats is popular for sport and food, while gun clubs and shooting ranges dot the country.

That has created a powerful lobby which has thwarted previously attempts to tighten gun laws after other mass shootings in New Zealand and overseas.

Federated Farmers, which represent thousands of farmers, said it supported the change.

"This will not be popular among some of our members but...we believe this is the only practicable solution," Federated Farmers Rural Security spokesman Miles Anderson said in a statement.

The changes exclude two general classes of firearms which are commonly used for hunting, pest control, stock management on farms, and duck shooting.

"I have a military style weapon. But to be fair, I don't really use it, I don't really need it," said Noel Womersley, who slaughters cattle for small farmers around Christchurch.

"So I'm quite happy to hand mine over, to be fair."

Ms Ardern said the next tranche of reforms will cover the firearm registry and licencing.

Also on Thursday, police said they'd inadvertently charged Tarrant with the murder of a person who is still alive.

Police said in a statement they had apologized to the person incorrectly named on the document and would change the charge sheet. They said the charge remains valid, so there was no chance the suspect would be released as a result of the error.

Police did not offer further details of what went wrong or make anybody available for an interview.

The name of the person on the charging sheet has been suppressed by court order. Officials said more charges against Tarrant would follow.

Tarrant, 28, is next scheduled to appear in court on April 5, and Bush said investigations into him were continuing. Police have said they are certain Tarrant was the only gunman but are still investigating whether he had support.

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