Christchurch, NZ mosque shooting

[SHOOTER12 8810]

18 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

It's all over Twitter. But honestly, think twice.

I found it, but it's been buffering for 30 minutes

[Cajun 11705]

9 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Think 4chan but more retarded.

Essentially, weaponized shaggy. But instead of "Pedo bear" stunts, they promote crazy, evil shit.

Wish they'd been around for the Fire Mack Brown thread.

[jkates 316]

Horrific. 

[Lat22 4014]

That shooter is what real evil looks like. Pure unadulterated evil. Remember that when you watch the news every night. 

[Cajun 11705]

1 minute ago, SHOOTER12 said:

I found it, but it's been buffering for 30 minutes

Well, I watched much earlier.  Now everyone's awake and it's getting slammed.

If you really wanna see it wait till 1 or 2am.

Trust me on this though, if for some reason you never see it, you may be better served.

[Loco 3752]

20 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

The problem is that it’s an endless loop. Demonizing an entire class of people based on the actions of a minority solves nothing. But ignoring that said minority exists, and claiming anyone that associates the act with the class is bigoted, also solves nothing. Pick your poison: Muslims and terrorism, blacks and drugs/crime, Mexicans and illegal immigration, Whites and oppression, etc.

Not every Muslim is a terrorist, regardless if they are sympathetic to the plight or not. We all agree that terrorists are bad. We also agree that an innocent Muslim should not be victim to hatred acts perpetrated by those fueled by fear. Where’s the balance and how do we solve it?

Agreed,

also...Probably safe to put the /terrorist on the "Whites and oppression" at this point

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Loco

[Cajun 11705]

1 minute ago, Lat22 said:

That shooter is what real evil looks like. Pure unadulterated evil. Remember that when you watch the news every night. 

Our news is so ridiculously slanted and sanitized that people who don't see what's on those renegade sites you and I have seen have zero chance of ever comprehending.

(unless they're veterans, LEO, or coroners)

[Cajun 11705]

21 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

The problem is that it’s an endless loop. Demonizing an entire class of people based on the actions of a minority solves nothing. But ignoring that said minority exists, and claiming anyone that associates the act with the class is bigoted, also solves nothing. Pick your poison: Muslims and terrorism, blacks and drugs/crime, Mexicans and illegal immigration, Whites and oppression, etc.

Not every Muslim is a terrorist, regardless if they are sympathetic to the plight or not. We all agree that terrorists are bad. We also agree that an innocent Muslim should not be victim to hatred acts perpetrated by those fueled by fear. Where’s the balance and how do we solve it?

Correct.  Just like all whites can't be lumped in with this shit stain, or all Hispanics can't be lumped in with peel your face off with a Zacto Knife guy.

Fucking nutters live everywhere and exploit all sorts of platforms. 

How do we solve it?  I don't know, but it sure as shit doesn't involve cultivating the "My team is less shitty than yours" fantasy.

No it's not.

[Lat22 4014]

I understand why people don’t want to watch these videos, but I think you have to see it to fully comprehend it. 

[Loco 3752]

Just now, Cajun said:

Our news is so ridiculously slanted and sanitized that people who don't see what's on those renegade sites you and I have seen have zero chance of ever comprehending.

(unless they're veterans, LEO, or coroners)

and also less chance of being fooled by "deep fakes" and advanced propaganda techniques.   I don't need to see the violence that drug gangs commit to understand they are evil, I can understand the words in the news piece.   Therefore I am able to synthesize thoughts and conclusions even with the "Sanitized" news I get. 

I know wingnuts who think they are getting the "inside" scoop for "real" news sources...  they are sheep.   Get your news from a diversity of legitimate sources (domestic and foreign) and use some common sense.  It's just not that hard.  Unless you're an Illuminati type guy... If so, I must be Illuminati, but an Illuminati would never mention the Illuminati... unless that's what I wanted you to think!  Count the syllables to learn the truth!

[Cajun 11705]

1 minute ago, Lat22 said:

I understand why people don’t want to watch these videos, but I think you have to see it to fully comprehend it. 

Some don't have to watch it to know that hate/evil exists.  I'm down with that and agree.

The thing is, I don't need to watch it to know that evil exists either.

I watch because I want to know how it exists.  What it looks like, specifically.  Changes your perspective on a bunch of shit.  Strips away your comfort zone arguments in search of confirmation bias right down to the very bone.  Lets you know right away who's full of shit and living in their own little conjured up utiopian worlds.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

4 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Some don't have to watch it to know that hate/evil exists.  I'm down with that and agree.

The thing is, I don't need to watch it to know that evil exists either.

I watch because I want to know how it exists.  What it looks like, specifically.  Changes your perspective on a bunch of shit.  Strips away your comfort zone arguments in search of confirmation bias right down to the very bone.  Lets you know right away who's full of shit and living in their own little conjured up utiopian worlds.

No question. I saw it on twitter and thought it was a joke because on my phone, it looked like a video game. 

Anyone who thinks this is a political game/banter better toughen up. This is pure, fucking evil personified. 

[TornACL 7698]

12 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Correct.  Just like all whites can't be lumped in with this shit stain, or all Hispanics can't be lumped in with peel your face off with a Zacto Knife guy.

Fucking nutters live everywhere and exploit all sorts of platforms. 

How do we solve it?  I don't know, but it sure as shit doesn't involve cultivating the "My team is less shitty than yours" fantasy.

No it's not.

I think we can start by calling this shithead a terrorist. Because that's exactly what he is. I'm glad to see some news outlets are finally getting this right.

Terrorism is a sickening evil that lurks within the shadows of each and every one of our races, ethnic groups, religions, etc. It's up to all of us to eradicate it. 

[Cajun 11705]

3 minutes ago, TornACL said:

I think we can start by calling this shithead a terrorist

By all means.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

36 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Then I truly worry for your mental well being moving forward. Careful, because that's how these things start. You may be far from radicalization/ extremism/ whatever you want to call it but these things tend to be a slippery slope. 

Not trying to be a dick either. As stated, I'll continue to listen to people like you because I still think it's important to. 

And that’s fine.  I’ve seen stuff most others haven’t.  I’ve seen online communities get radicalized to the point where “rounding up the liberals and executing them” is considered a good idea and applauded.  Some people reading this right now may think that’s funny but it’s not.

It’s corrosive and dangerous.  Without someone challenging it and calling it out, bad shit is going to happen to innocent people.  And right now in those online communities, the voices calling it out are being suppressed, banned, dismissed, and shouted down.   It’s a slow motion catastrophe happening in front of my eyes.  I’d be negligent not to say something. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

11 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

No question. I saw it on twitter and thought it was a joke because on my phone, it looked like a video game. 

Anyone who thinks this is a political game/banter better toughen up. This is pure, fucking evil personified. 

"Because it was! It was staged! Crisis actors!" /Alex Jones

[SHOOTER12 8810]

35 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Well, I watched much earlier.  Now everyone's awake and it's getting slammed.

If you really wanna see it wait till 1 or 2am.

Trust me on this though, if for some reason you never see it, you may be better served.

Yeah also Chrome is not going to pick it up as Google is trying to block it by any means necessary. I use Firefox and started playing but then it got bumped when Wi-Fi crapped out here at the motel. Like you said 1 a.m. or so would probably be better and if I never see it what the heck

[Hank Kingsley 20949]

14 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

No question. I saw it on twitter and thought it was a joke because on my phone, it looked like a video game. 

Anyone who thinks this is a political game/banter better toughen up. This is pure, fucking evil personified. 

It was a political terrorist act committed by an evil person. It doesn't transcend politics or ideology. It was a deciding factor. 

 

 

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And that’s fine.  I’ve seen stuff most others haven’t.  I’ve seen online communities get radicalized to the point where “rounding up the liberals and executing them” is considered a good idea and applauded.  Some people reading this right now may think that’s funny but it’s not.

 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

10 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

I understand why people don’t want to watch these videos, but I think you have to see it to fully comprehend it. 

Good take. It's surreal. 

[Loco 3752]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Good take. It's surreal. 

except that's exactly what the evil bastard wanted... fuck that guy

[Telegraph_it 3357]

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

can someone explain what 8chan is?  i'm not googling that.  

Owner of 4chan pissed some people off, got sued, lost website, declared bankruptcy to not pay the settlement, and with the help of a friend started a new better website called 8chan. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

12 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It was a political terrorist act committed by an evil person. It doesn't transcend politics or ideology. It was a deciding factor. 

His "manifesto" reads like something a 12 year old came up with after being kicked out of recess. I'm not sure this guy was smart enough to transcend an Arby's roast beef sandwich.

[Hank Kingsley 20949]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

His "manifesto" reads like something a 12 year old came up with after being kicked out of recess. I'm not sure this guy was smart enough to transcend an Arby's roast beef sandwich.

Step 1: Ignore any warning/lessons and just pretend the guy was mental. 

Step 2: Thoughts and prayers

Step 3: Move on to something else. 

Textbook stuff here, CW. 

 

 

[BigHorn'13 3363]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And that’s fine.  I’ve seen stuff most others haven’t.  I’ve seen online communities get radicalized to the point where “rounding up the liberals and executing them” is considered a good idea and applauded.  Some people reading this right now may think that’s funny but it’s not.

It’s corrosive and dangerous.  Without someone challenging it and calling it out, bad shit is going to happen to innocent people.  And right now in those online communities, the voices calling it out are being suppressed, banned, dismissed, and shouted down.   It’s a slow motion catastrophe happening in front of my eyes.  I’d be negligent not to say something. 

I think we're on the same page. Where we differ is in your approach.

Quite frankly, I don't give a fuck what happens to evil people, no matter who they are. There doesn't seem to be room to discuss issues (still need to understand their POV though) with terrorists who are hell bent on executing their ideology. For those people, although I'm not an advocate of "cop callers", need to be reported and exterminated. 

But for those who aren't to that extreme yet, you engage them by listening to what they're saying. Question (not by being an ass but as in search of answers) their beliefs. Point out inconsistencies/hypocrisies. If possible, try and establish common ground and build upon it. 

If the goal is change then that's the first steps. Anything else, at the end of the day, just reinforces their beliefs because in their eyes, they are being attacked by their "opponents" and you're perpetuating the cycle instead of doing something to stop it. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Step 1: Ignore any warning/lessons and just pretend the guy was mental. 

Step 2: Thoughts and prayers

Step 3: Move on to something else. 

Textbook stuff here, CW. 

Fuck the fuck off. Read thru my other posts. I'm not ignoring anything this turd has done. Take your bullshit back to your CR circle jerk. 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

11 hours ago, Helobious said:

The shooter seemed to drop something after the contact, and definitely took 5-10 seconds to regather himself after he killed the guy that charged him. I think he was a bit shocked. That might've bought some people inside or nearby time to escape, so it's hard to say that it "accomplished nothing". 

It was weird watching that video. I felt like I was just watching someone's twitch stream. Didn't really shock me or trigger much emotion. Maybe years of graphic FPS video games really do fuck you up a little bit.

 

In the book "Generation KIll" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Kill

the author talks about, among other things, that in vietnam, new recruits would often "freeze" and never even fire their gun in their first fire fight. In the Gulf Wars, that was no longer true, possibly due to the prevalence of first person shooter video games.

[Hank Kingsley 20949]

4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Fuck the fuck off. Read thru my other posts. I'm not ignoring anything this turd has done. Take your bullshit back to your CR circle jerk. 

Circle jerk? Yeah, it's real fun to continue having these conversations. It's so exciting to talk about another mass murder. 

 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

20 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Circle jerk? Yeah, it's real fun to continue having these conversations. It's so exciting to talk about another mass murder. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

16 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

I think we're on the same page. Where we differ is in your approach.

Quite frankly, I don't give a fuck what happens to evil people, no matter who they are. There doesn't seem to be room to discuss issues (still need to understand their POV though) with terrorists who are hell bent on executing their ideology. For those people, although I'm not an advocate of "cop callers", need to be reported and exterminated. 

But for those who aren't to that extreme yet, you engage them by listening to what they're saying. Question (not by being an ass but as in search of answers) their beliefs. Point out inconsistencies/hypocrisies. If possible, try and establish common ground and build upon it. 

If the goal is change then that's the first steps. Anything else, at the end of the day, just reinforces their beliefs because in their eyes, they are being attacked by their "opponents" and you're perpetuating the cycle instead of doing something to stop it. 

You’re absolutely right.  The solution is to pull people in by listening instead of reflexively pushing them away.   Ironically, this is the issue Brisket and I have the most disagreement on.  The approach to the polarization problem. 

However, in the case of this sub forum, I’m already reflexively dismissed as someone that should shut up and go back to CR regardless of what dialogue I engage in, which is fine.  Just don’t expect me to be patient with that attitude. 

[DDD Dad 14339]

Can we stop calling people who do this thing "crazy" or "nutjobs"?  It is clear to me that they are anything but insane (as defined under the M'Naughton Rule), and I sincerely doubt that any would be clinically characterized as mentally ill.  They knew/know exactly what they are doing and why, and the effect they cause is entirely intentional.

Left, right, Muslim, Christian, incel, whatever.  Let us refer to them by the term that fits.  Evil.  Let us not allow our own political, social, or religious perspective or prejudice affect how we react to them.

[DDD Dad 14339]

39 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

His "manifesto" reads like something a 12 year old came up with after being kicked out of recess. I'm not sure this guy was smart enough to transcend an Arby's roast beef sandwich.

This minimizes the evil.  If you don't see it and choose to brush off the comments to you as CR bullshit I don't know what to tell you.  

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

I'm out. The CR circle jerk gang is here to tell us all how to think and feel.

[Kennythetiger 9386]

2 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Jesus is this real? What the hell is this idiot thinking?

Things that make you say "Holy shit"

[The Golden Hat 299]

1 hour ago, Lat22 said:

I understand why people don’t want to watch these videos, but I think you have to see it to fully comprehend it. 

Nope.

[Brian Fantana 6689]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And that’s fine.  I’ve seen stuff most others haven’t.  I’ve seen online communities get radicalized to the point where “rounding up the liberals and executing them” is considered a good idea and applauded.  Some people reading this right now may think that’s funny but it’s not.

Gonna guess he means SECrant and TexAgs here 😶

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

15 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Gonna guess he means SECrant and TexAgs here 😶

 And those are mainstream localized sports forums that fly completely under the radar which makes it even more disturbing.   There is zero sense of responsibility for the owners/administrators of those platforms. 

I actually emailed them about my concerns in a thoughtful way but to them I’m just a libtard so it was likely deleted immediately. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[davidg 4038]

Owner of 4chan pissed some people off, got sued, lost website, declared bankruptcy to not pay the settlement, and with the help of a friend started a new better website called 8chan. 

So Surlyhorns is 8chan? Cloakroom makes sense now.

[Brian Fantana 6689]

3 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Jesus is this real? What the hell is this idiot thinking?

It is real:

https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/politics/politician-lashes-out-at-muslims-after-christchurch-shootings-they-are-the-perpetrators/news-story/8e3f11fe73821dc3e65d75432ac76f2e

[Spankytoes 1739]

45 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Can we stop calling people who do this thing "crazy" or "nutjobs"?  It is clear to me that they are anything but insane (as defined under the M'Naughton Rule), and I sincerely doubt that any would be clinically characterized as mentally ill.  They knew/know exactly what they are doing and why, and the effect they cause is entirely intentional.

Left, right, Muslim, Christian, incel, whatever.  Let us refer to them by the term that fits.  Evil.  Let us not allow our own political, social, or religious perspective or prejudice affect how we react to them.

"It's Evil" is not a profound take on the situation. I'm not sure how you can look at something like this without peering into your worldview prism, especially when considering the question of "why?" The evil manifested somewhere. 

[DDD Dad 14339]

My point is that evil more accurately defines the nature of the conduct rather than insanity (or mental illness).  To refer to it as insanity is to minimize it and allow one to ignore the source of manifestation.

[SHOOTER12 8810]

53 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You’re absolutely right.  The solution is to pull people in by listening instead of reflexively pushing them away.   Ironically, this is the issue Brisket and I have the most disagreement on.  The approach to the polarization problem. 

However, in the case of this sub forum, I’m already reflexively dismissed as someone that should shut up and go back to CR regardless of what dialogue I engage in, which is fine.  Just don’t expect me to be patient with that attitude. 

Well dude, nothing personal, but you smell really bad, like you've been hanging out in a really foul place and the essence followed you. 

[irishtexan 11519]

Somebody ought to kick Fraser Anning's ass.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Well dude, nothing personal, but you smell really bad, like you've been hanging out in a really foul place and the essence followed you. 

And that’s fair.

[SHOOTER12 8810]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And that’s fair.

Dammit, I laughed, now stop it...

[irishtexan 11519]

5 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

"It's Evil" is not a profound take on the situation. I'm not sure how you can look at something like this without peering into your worldview prism, especially when considering the question of "why?" The evil manifested somewhere. 

It's the laziest of rationalizations. People aren't born this way. They're desensitized and radicalized into believing they're modern christian warriors fighting the invading "other" hoardes. They're enabled by a culture that's increasingly permissive of extremist violent rhetoric, and then when something like this happens we blame it on "evil." Bullshit. 

 

[Brisketexan 105147]

The shooter is not insane.  He's evil.  This applies to this guy, Anders Breivik, the Paris shooters, and any number of others like them.

Every one of those people was radicalized.

First, the "other" (to that person) was demonized, then dehumanized.

Once you think of the entire class of the  "other" as evil and sub-human, then you've paved a smooth road for a violent response.

Many people are susceptible to being goaded to go down that road.  Sometimes, they shoot up Parisian nightclubs.  Other times, they shoot up mosques.  The human psychology involved is 100% identical.  It's not about the underlying politics, or religion.  It is how those are USED to radicalize.

Dehumanize, demonize.....then kill.

This is why people have been sounding the alarm when we see and read rhetoric - regularly, and in the mainstream -- that does just that.  One of the highest-rated shows on Fox News is hosted by a man who called iraqis "semiliterate primitive monkeys."  Dude.  That's dehumanization 101.  Our sitting president leads off with his reference to Mexicans as "murderers and rapists."  The "thought leaders" spewing their filth regularly say the same about anyone from the arab or muslim world, or anyone from latin america.  Dehumanization and demonization are tools of arson.  Eventually, they succeed in creating a fire that kills people.

There are plenty of ways to talk about immigration that don't have to devolve into dehumanization.  But very few people seem interested in having that conversation.  And those who have happily traded in dangerous rhetoric are now trying to run away from taking any responsibility for their recklessness.  Nope.  Own it.  Watch it.  If you are a muslim radical leader condemning the jews over and over again, you damned well have responsibility when someone watching all of your videos goes out and attacks an israeli bus, or a synagogue.  If you are spewing white nationalist demonization of the brown people, and about how their mere presence is an assault on our civilization, you damned well bear responsibility.

Sane, evil people do predictably horrible things when they are spurred on to do them by dangerous and hateful rhetoric.  We should stop the hateful rhetoric.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Brisketexan

[Colonel Sanders 1342]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

In the book "Generation KIll" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Kill

the author talks about, among other things, that in vietnam, new recruits would often "freeze" and never even fire their gun in their first fire fight. In the Gulf Wars, that was no longer true, possibly due to the prevalence of first person shooter video games.

I don't remember any popular first person shooter games in 1990.  

[El Diablo 4232]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The shooter is not insane.  He's evil.  This applies to this guy, Anders Breivik, the Paris shooters, and any number of others like them.

Every one of those people was radicalized.

First, the "other" (to that person) was demonized, then dehumanized.

Once you think of the entire class of the  "other" as evil and sub-human, then you've paved a smooth road for a violent response.

Many people are susceptible to being goaded to go down that road.  Sometimes, they shoot up Parisian nightclubs.  Other times, they shoot up mosques.  The human psychology involved is 100% identical.  It's not about the underlying politics, or religion.  It is how those are USED to radicalize.

Dehumanize, demonize.....then kill.

This is why people have been sounding the alarm when we see and read rhetoric - regularly, and in the mainstream -- that does just that.  One of the highest-rated shows on Fox News is hosted by a man who called iraqis "semiliterate primitive monkeys."  Dude.  That's dehumanization 101.  Our sitting president leads off with his reference to Mexicans as "murderers and rapists."  The "thought leaders" spewing their filth regularly say the same about anyone from the arab or muslim world, or anyone from latin america.  Dehumanization and demonization are tools of arson.  Eventually, they succeed in creating a fire that kills people.

There are plenty of ways to talk about immigration that don't have to devolve into dehumanization.  But very few people seem interested in having that conversation.  And those who have happily traded in dangerous rhetoric are now trying to run away from taking any responsibility for their recklessness.  Nope.  Own it.  Watch it.  If you are a muslim radical leader condemning the jews over and over again, you damned well have responsibility when someone watching all of your videos goes out and attacks an israeli bus, or a synagogue.  If you are spewing white nationalist demonization of the brown people, and about how their mere presence is an assault on our civilization, you damned well bear responsibility.

Sane, evil people do predictably horrible things when they are spurred on to do them by dangerous and hateful rhetoric.  We should stop the hateful rhetoric.

I think a small part of the problem is that we have several billion people who follow ancient religious texts that have been interpreted in such a way by some of their adherents that the hateful rhetoric is revered, Holy and a call to action for many. It's going to be a tough dialog to convince them otherwise.

[Brisketexan 105147]

4 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

I think a small part of the problem is that we have several billion people who follow ancient religious texts that have been interpreted in such a way by some of their adherents that the hateful rhetoric is revered, Holy and a call to action for many. It's going to be a tough dialog to convince them otherwise.

That's one phenomenon.

Another is that people are balkanized and think of "the other" as subhuman.  You've explained the problem with muslim terrorists. Now do it with this guy, and Anders Breivik, etc.