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spystud13

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MC Fresh Breath

MC Fresh Breath 4074

Posted
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14 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

8-1 at home vs. 3-6 away, which was very strange because the Astros were much better on the road during the season.

 

So the cheating didn't help them all that much during the regular season, but perhaps it did in the post season?  Obviously we may never know, but it sure doesn't look good.  

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He's probably more pissed off about being related to you. Now go back to Cloak Room or wherever it is that you regularly infect with your stupidity and leave this awesome subforum be.

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22734

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

So the cheating didn't help them all that much during the regular season, but perhaps it did in the post season?  Obviously we may never know, but it sure doesn't look good.  

Again, the article touches on how there is no confirmation that this continued into the playoff, or even how effective it would be.  Let's take the Kershaw data point that you brought up.  Go to around 1:20:00 in this video, which is when the Astros started to get to him.  Unlike the Jomboy video of the game against the White Sox (which admittedly looks very bad!) there's no banging audible, and especially in big moments like the Gurriel home run or the Altuve one the next inning, there's no way the batter could have ever even heard banging over the crowd noise.

Now, it's certainly possible that the Astros tweaked their system to something more advanced than banging on trash cans during the playoffs, but then we are just back to speculation... which has already followed this team for years.

 

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
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16 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

8-1 at home vs. 3-6 away, which was very strange because the Astros were much better on the road during the season.

Why is that strange?  The fact that the Astros had a better record on the road during the regular season in 2017 is not very persuasive evidence that you should expect them to be better on the road than at home in future games, and in tiny samples like the post season it wouldn't really matter even if that weren't true.  

I think trying to parse the "effectiveness" of the cheating from stats is pretty silly.  The effect overall is probably not very great so it's just going to get swamped by noise.

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clapclapclap

clapclapclap 9000

Posted
Posted (edited)

MLB could end the communication side of sign stealing by simply allowing pitchers and catchers the option to wear Google Glass type goggles.  Have a little button or wheel transmitter on the back of their glove that they can use to scroll through signs, with the option to randomize the order if they are worried about the opposing team picking up the pattern of their button pushing (LOL.)  

8176.PLNVN_2D00_3.jpg_2D00_500x0.jpg

Edited by clapclapclap
Added pic of prototype
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MC Fresh Breath

MC Fresh Breath 4074

Posted
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2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Again, the article touches on how there is no confirmation that this continued into the playoff, or even how effective it would be.  Let's take the Kershaw data point that you brought up.  Go to around 1:20:00 in this video, which is when the Astros started to get to him.  Unlike the Jomboy video of the game against the White Sox (which admittedly looks very bad!) there's no banging audible, and especially in big moments like the Gurriel home run or the Altuve one the next inning, there's no way the batter could have ever even heard banging over the crowd noise.

 

 

On the one hand, you have a point.  On the other hand, and this one might be stretching it:

 

That' s the shitty thing about all this.   Cast a lot into doubt.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54429

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Shit my moral high horse just rode away. 

Quote

OAKLAND, Calif. - The Rangers are quickly gaining a reputation around the league as adept sign stealers. It is not a crime with which manager Chris Woodward has any concern being connected.

Over the weekend, Houston manager A.J. Hinch suggested the Rangers had picked up pitches from Gerrit Cole during a Saturday thrashing. It was the second time Cole had faced the Rangers in the first four weeks of the season. If there were trends or signs to pick up, facing him twice in a short period of time would only increase that possibility.

Woodward came from the Los Angeles organization, which was considered one of the most advanced when it came to identifying pitch tipping and sign stealing.

"I think we're getting better at it, I want us to," Woodward said Monday.

It is an acquired art. In the past, some hitters have expressed hesitancy to dive into it because they feel studying a pitcher's glove or hand placement before the pitch can take focus off recognizing the pitch out of the hand. Or looking at second base to get a sign relayed from a runner can be distracting.

 

Woodward likens the art to being at a blackjack table.

"You know what you are holding," Woodward said. "Now, if you had a chance to know what both cards the dealer has are, wouldn't that increase your chances of success? And if you knew the dealer had with those two cards before you even placed your bet, wouldn't that increase your wager?"

Woodward said the Rangers have added several staff members and players who bring a lot in the area of identifying in-game trends. Against the Astros, the Rangers put up nine runs or more on Cole and Collin McHugh in back-to-back games. If the Rangers were able to turn the trick on the Astros, it ups the gamesmanship in the rivalry. The Astros have been considered the league's best at the art for several years.

"I felt like they were on a lot of stuff in the first inning, especially their takes and some of their pitches they chose to swing at," Cole said. "I think they were maybe a little bit of a step ahead of me in terms of maybe being able to identify what pitch I was throwing."

 

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22734

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

On the one hand, you have a point.  On the other hand, and this one might be stretching it:

 

That' s the shitty thing about all this.   Cast a lot into doubt.

I mean, I listen and I hear basically constant whistling throughout the entire video.  Sure when the word "Whistle" comes on the screen, it seems more pronounced, but if you close your eyes and listen, there's basically a constant stream of whistling... like at any baseball game.

I do not disagree that the entire episode puts everything in doubt, which is a shame.

As an admittedly biased fan, I do have a question: Why has the paragraph about Beltran, sorry.. the "uniformed player," bringing in this technique from another team not gotten any publicity?  Seems like an important detail to look into.  Again, not excusing what the Astros did, but that tidbit provides important context to how prevalent this shit most likely is.

And if these episodes were so well known, and such a disgrace to the integrity of the game, why are the Red Sox not being hammered for hiring the Astros 2017 bench coach as their manager?  The Blue Jays not under scrutiny for hiring the Astros 2017 hitting coach as their current bench coach?  The Giants for hiring the Astros 2017 assistant hitting coach as their hitting coach?  The Yankees and then Mets hiring Beltran, who obviously had to know about these techniques?  These guys all apparently saw benefit in this tactic, and we're to believe that they just abandoned it in their new organizations? 

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6189

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am all for stealing signs the way it has been done since the inception of the sport. A runner gets to 2nd and has a clear view of what is going on. A coach or player in the dugout picks up on signals from the 1st or 3rd base coach. Do it and gloat about it. 

Where I go sideways is using technology to aid you. I do not care about the team that has done it. Obviously the Astros are in the crosshairs right now. If it is proven that they were stealing signs using a camera to do so then I believe Manfred has to take the unprecedented step to strip them of their title and fine them and forfeit draft picks. The Dodgers do not get the title. It is just a year with no winner. No team should be doing this. If other teams are found you forfeit their season and fine them and take draft picks. There has to be a line you do not cross. I love the sport quite a bit and this saddens me if the evidence corroborates what Fiers and three others said.

I am no traditionalist who thinks you should not gawk at homers or celebrate. I want more of that stuff. I want less of what Houston has been accused of. 

Edited by UpperWestside
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Helobious

Helobious 9464

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

For one, those stats don’t stabilize within those samples, so you’re just comparing noise at home versus noise on the road. 

Those splits are drastic enough to be significant. That’s also at least 70 AB’s worth of data, not exactly nothing. Add in all the video evidence & testimony of the Astros doing it earlier in the year, it’s pretty convincing. 

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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22 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Those splits are drastic enough to be significant. That’s also at least 70 AB’s worth of data, not exactly nothing. Add in all the video evidence & testimony of the Astros doing it earlier in the year, it’s pretty convincing. 

lol 70 ABs means shit for those kinds of stats. You have no idea how many ABs it takes for them to begin to stabilize. 

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22734

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https://theathletic.com/1376638/2019/11/13/three-major-league-managers-are-connected-to-astros-sign-stealing/

Beltran and Cora now implicated by name.  We gonna investigate the Red Sox title now, or do we believe that Cora suddenly decided to stop what was working once he got more responsibility?  

Beltran was obviously the player who brought the technique over from another team, so which other club needs to be looked at?  The Rangers, his previous stop?  The Yankees, who immediately snatched him up as an adviser after he retired?  The Cardinals?  Should the Mets get ridiculed for hiring a known cheater?

This is going to get messy.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54429

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

https://theathletic.com/1376638/2019/11/13/three-major-league-managers-are-connected-to-astros-sign-stealing/

Beltran and Cora now implicated by name.  We gonna investigate the Red Sox title now, or do we believe that Cora suddenly decided to stop what was working once he got more responsibility?  

Beltran was obviously the player who brought the technique over from another team, so which other club needs to be looked at?  The Rangers, his previous stop?  The Yankees, who immediately snatched him up as an adviser after he retired?  The Cardinals?  Should the Mets get ridiculed for hiring a known cheater?

This is going to get messy.

This was in the comments:

Quote

The Athletic had an article earlier this month when Beltran was hired as the new Mets manager. This quote from Bergman initially struck me as curious, and now seems a lot more sinister:

“I think Carlos Beltrán helped out the Yankees this year a lot,” Bregman said. “Like a lot lot.”

The statement came accompanied by a wry smile and a lack of specifics. A follow-up inquiry was unsuccessful. “He helps a lot behind the scenes,” Bregman said, holding his expression.

 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54429

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Posted

 

28 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

What conclusions did I draw?  

 

On 10/14/2019 at 10:51 AM, Fozzz said:

xwOBA through the first two games - Yankees .308, Astros .373.  The Astros are hitting better in this series than they did in the regular season (.337 xwOBA) but have hardly anything to show for it.  Still, this is a huge improvement from the Rays series where Rays' pitching really did a number against the Astros' offense for much of the series.  The issues against NY seem to stem more from hitting line drives to the wrong spots and not having anyone on base for the home runs. 

 

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