Buttigieg 2020

[F250 28,777]

This isn't one of his best ideas. I believe Clinton kicked around this idea in the 90's.

 

Pete Buttigieg suggests national service program

 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/pete-buttigieg-national-service-program-1277274

[NIUHuskies 504]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

This isn't one of his best ideas. I believe Clinton kicked around this idea in the 90's.

 

Pete Buttigieg suggests national service program

 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/pete-buttigieg-national-service-program-1277274

Obama had the idea, too:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/07/02/national.service.fact.sheet.final.pdf

 

[F250 28,777]

5 minutes ago, NIUHuskies said:

Obama had the idea, too:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/07/02/national.service.fact.sheet.final.pdf

 

Good catch. I don't remember Obama floating this idea.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

how often art imitates life...

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

Well, I was sort of on board the Mayor Pete thing because of the James Joyce reference.  But he said that his inauguration day "dream performer" would be Phish, so I'm rethinking my support.   Not sure I'm ready for a psychedelic inauguration that last for hours.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

Pete does music criticism. Uses the word "dyspeptic"  correctly.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/10/rock-the-vote-this-week-i/

[F250 28,777]

A good summation of Pete by The Economist.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/04/20/pete-buttigieg-fuses-liberalism-and-tradition

 

NEWTON’S THIRD law of motion also helps predict America’s presidential succession. After Richard Nixon’s sleaze, voters picked a Georgian Sunday School teacher who promised never ever to lie to them. After eight years of interracial progress and cool intellectualism from Barack Obama, they chose Donald Trump. Whoever succeeds him is liable to be as different from the know-nothing New Yorker as it is possible to imagine. For a growing number of excited Democrats, this points to Pete Buttigieg.

The 37-year-old mayor of South Bend, Indiana, is the anti-Trump of the moment. A Harvard and Oxford graduate, he is a gifted musician, linguist and scholar. He is also unfailingly genial and, for a politician, almost bashful about his achievements. Given that his main claim to the presidency, which he only recently became old enough to occupy, is his experience running Indiana’s fourth biggest city, he might seem to have little choice. Even so, at a packed rally in Brooklyn this week, the gracious way he referred to his recent rise in the Democratic primary pack was refreshing.
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inRead invented by Teads

The diminutive mayor, appearing before a crowd of bearded hipsters in his regulation shirtsleeves and tie, celebrated the fact that his campaign was being taken seriously. He did not spell out that, almost unknown three months ago, he is now polling in third place in Iowa and pulling in as much cash as any rival except Bernie Sanders. After his launch on April 14th he raised a million dollars in four hours. He also made no reference to his accomplishments—though another emerged at the rally. It had previously transpired, after he was approached by a Norwegian television crew, that he speaks fair Norwegian. In Brooklyn he spoke better French. As Notre Dame burned, he assured a French journalist that Americans “partageons la douleur mais nous remercions aussi de ce cadeau à la civilisation” (“we share in the pain but we also thank you for this gift to civilisation.”) On Twitter meanwhile Mr Trump urged the French to get hold of some “flying water tankers!”

American voters do not much like pointy-headed francophones. Yet in recompense Mr Buttigieg offers a convincing claim to public-spiritedness and decency. He quit a job with McKinsey to seek election in unglamorous South Bend—a city of 100,000 best known for a Studebaker car factory that closed half a century ago—and served as a naval reserve in Afghanistan. He is squeaky clean and prone to moralise, but not in a cloying way. Alongside his youthfulness and relentless futurism—“there is no such thing as an honest politics that revolves around the word ‘again’,” he says—he sets the timeless values of the small-town Midwest: faith, family, community and a love of fried food and dogs.

Perhaps not since Bill Clinton have the Democrats produced an intellectual so good at playing the regular guy. Moreover, where Mr Clinton’s skill became associated with his intemperance and cynicism, Mr Buttigieg’s underlines the most significant detail of his candidacy: his status as the first openly gay presidential candidate.

A tacit rebuke to Mr Trump’s illiberalism, this plays a contradictory role in the mayor’s campaign. It is in a sense impressively peripheral. That Mr Buttigieg can plausibly offer himself as the candidate of restoring honest Christian values, as Jimmy Carter did, shows how relaxed Americans have recently become about sexuality. Opinion polls suggest they are readier to vote for a gay candidate than an evangelical Christian one.

Yet Mr Buttigieg’s openness about his sexuality, ever since he came out in an article in the South Bend Tribune before his re-election in 2015, is at the same time central to his appeal. It has earned him a reputation for candour, integrity and courage, of which his marriage to Chasten, a schoolteacher who is by far the most prominent political spouse in the primary, provides a constant reminder. Chasten Buttigieg, who warmed up the crowd in Brooklyn and greeted his husband to the stage with a kiss on the lips, is by turn a comic sidekick, political surrogate and personification of the mayor’s old-school values.

This is consistent with Mr Buttigieg’s broader argument that Democrats need to reclaim the traditional values which he espouses from the right. “Freedom does not belong to just one political party,” he said in his launch speech. A liberal scion of the heartland, he has long witnessed Democrats ignore that truth, delight themselves with socioeconomic policy (on which he has hinted at pragmatism, but said little), and lose. Presenting his marriage as an elusive example of liberalism fused with tradition looks like a promising alternative strategy.

To understand why, recall how gay marriage proved such a felicitous exception to the culture wars. Liberals and conservatives alike felt their values were vindicated by the reform. Mr Buttigieg’s campaign can be viewed as an effort to maximise his political gain from that niche. The unusual way he combines freethinking liberalism with punctilious social conformity—in his manners, religious practice and otherwise—is a sort of extrapolation of it.

A feud he appears to be trying to engineer with Mike Pence represents another bid to elevate his modest record in South Bend, battling potholes and derelict housing, into the grander fight over values he wants. To the evident surprise of the vice-president, who backed anti-gay measures while governor of Indiana, Mr Buttigieg refers to him as his nemesis. This could be the making of a spicy vice-presidential debate. It also deflects attention from Mr Trump, whose provocations Mr Buttigieg seems keener to ignore.
A bend in the river

He is not alone in that. Beto O’Rourke and Amy Klobuchar are also reluctant to go toe-to-toe with the president. The former is better-known than Mayor Pete, the latter more experienced. It is far from clear that he can emerge from the Democratic pack. Yet the early interest in him is merited. Mr Buttigieg is attuned to the way voters actually think, not how politicians want them to. He also represents great liberal progress. Both things are worth celebrating.

[Hank Kingsley 20,942]

The replies made me laugh. 

 

[406W30th 1,111]

14 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Well, I was sort of on board the Mayor Pete thing because of the James Joyce reference.  But he said that his inauguration day "dream performer" would be Phish, so I'm rethinking my support.   Not sure I'm ready for a psychedelic inauguration that last for hours.

Pete is absolutely Page-side rage side.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

12 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The replies made me laugh. 

 

 

E.W. Jackson is right. Buttigieg isn't even President yet and I've already taken up knitting. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

14 hours ago, F250 said:

A good summation of Pete by The Economist.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/04/20/pete-buttigieg-fuses-liberalism-and-tradition

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

NEWTON’S THIRD law of motion also helps predict America’s presidential succession. After Richard Nixon’s sleaze, voters picked a Georgian Sunday School teacher who promised never ever to lie to them. After eight years of interracial progress and cool intellectualism from Barack Obama, they chose Donald Trump. Whoever succeeds him is liable to be as different from the know-nothing New Yorker as it is possible to imagine. For a growing number of excited Democrats, this points to Pete Buttigieg.

The 37-year-old mayor of South Bend, Indiana, is the anti-Trump of the moment. A Harvard and Oxford graduate, he is a gifted musician, linguist and scholar. He is also unfailingly genial and, for a politician, almost bashful about his achievements. Given that his main claim to the presidency, which he only recently became old enough to occupy, is his experience running Indiana’s fourth biggest city, he might seem to have little choice. Even so, at a packed rally in Brooklyn this week, the gracious way he referred to his recent rise in the Democratic primary pack was refreshing.
ADVERTISING
inRead invented by Teads

The diminutive mayor, appearing before a crowd of bearded hipsters in his regulation shirtsleeves and tie, celebrated the fact that his campaign was being taken seriously. He did not spell out that, almost unknown three months ago, he is now polling in third place in Iowa and pulling in as much cash as any rival except Bernie Sanders. After his launch on April 14th he raised a million dollars in four hours. He also made no reference to his accomplishments—though another emerged at the rally. It had previously transpired, after he was approached by a Norwegian television crew, that he speaks fair Norwegian. In Brooklyn he spoke better French. As Notre Dame burned, he assured a French journalist that Americans “partageons la douleur mais nous remercions aussi de ce cadeau à la civilisation” (“we share in the pain but we also thank you for this gift to civilisation.”) On Twitter meanwhile Mr Trump urged the French to get hold of some “flying water tankers!”

American voters do not much like pointy-headed francophones. Yet in recompense Mr Buttigieg offers a convincing claim to public-spiritedness and decency. He quit a job with McKinsey to seek election in unglamorous South Bend—a city of 100,000 best known for a Studebaker car factory that closed half a century ago—and served as a naval reserve in Afghanistan. He is squeaky clean and prone to moralise, but not in a cloying way. Alongside his youthfulness and relentless futurism—“there is no such thing as an honest politics that revolves around the word ‘again’,” he says—he sets the timeless values of the small-town Midwest: faith, family, community and a love of fried food and dogs.

Perhaps not since Bill Clinton have the Democrats produced an intellectual so good at playing the regular guy. Moreover, where Mr Clinton’s skill became associated with his intemperance and cynicism, Mr Buttigieg’s underlines the most significant detail of his candidacy: his status as the first openly gay presidential candidate.

A tacit rebuke to Mr Trump’s illiberalism, this plays a contradictory role in the mayor’s campaign. It is in a sense impressively peripheral. That Mr Buttigieg can plausibly offer himself as the candidate of restoring honest Christian values, as Jimmy Carter did, shows how relaxed Americans have recently become about sexuality. Opinion polls suggest they are readier to vote for a gay candidate than an evangelical Christian one.

Yet Mr Buttigieg’s openness about his sexuality, ever since he came out in an article in the South Bend Tribune before his re-election in 2015, is at the same time central to his appeal. It has earned him a reputation for candour, integrity and courage, of which his marriage to Chasten, a schoolteacher who is by far the most prominent political spouse in the primary, provides a constant reminder. Chasten Buttigieg, who warmed up the crowd in Brooklyn and greeted his husband to the stage with a kiss on the lips, is by turn a comic sidekick, political surrogate and personification of the mayor’s old-school values.

This is consistent with Mr Buttigieg’s broader argument that Democrats need to reclaim the traditional values which he espouses from the right. “Freedom does not belong to just one political party,” he said in his launch speech. A liberal scion of the heartland, he has long witnessed Democrats ignore that truth, delight themselves with socioeconomic policy (on which he has hinted at pragmatism, but said little), and lose. Presenting his marriage as an elusive example of liberalism fused with tradition looks like a promising alternative strategy.

To understand why, recall how gay marriage proved such a felicitous exception to the culture wars. Liberals and conservatives alike felt their values were vindicated by the reform. Mr Buttigieg’s campaign can be viewed as an effort to maximise his political gain from that niche. The unusual way he combines freethinking liberalism with punctilious social conformity—in his manners, religious practice and otherwise—is a sort of extrapolation of it.

A feud he appears to be trying to engineer with Mike Pence represents another bid to elevate his modest record in South Bend, battling potholes and derelict housing, into the grander fight over values he wants. To the evident surprise of the vice-president, who backed anti-gay measures while governor of Indiana, Mr Buttigieg refers to him as his nemesis. This could be the making of a spicy vice-presidential debate. It also deflects attention from Mr Trump, whose provocations Mr Buttigieg seems keener to ignore.
A bend in the river

He is not alone in that. Beto O’Rourke and Amy Klobuchar are also reluctant to go toe-to-toe with the president. The former is better-known than Mayor Pete, the latter more experienced. It is far from clear that he can emerge from the Democratic pack. Yet the early interest in him is merited. Mr Buttigieg is attuned to the way voters actually think, not how politicians want them to. He also represents great liberal progress. Both things are worth celebrating.

 

This is downright hilarious:

"He also made no reference to his accomplishments—though another emerged at the rally. It had previously transpired, after he was approached by a Norwegian television crew, that he speaks fair Norwegian. In Brooklyn he spoke better French. As Notre Dame burned, he assured a French journalist that Americans “partageons la douleur mais nous remercions aussi de ce cadeau à la civilisation” (“we share in the pain but we also thank you for this gift to civilisation.”) On Twitter meanwhile Mr Trump urged the French to get hold of some “flying water tankers!”

[Lucid 3]

Quote

Mr Buttigieg can plausibly offer himself as the candidate of restoring honest Christian values

Quote

Chasten Buttigieg, who warmed up the crowd in Brooklyn and greeted his husband to the stage with a kiss on the lips, is by turn a comic sidekick, political surrogate and personification of the mayor’s old-school values.

Quote

Mr Buttigieg’s broader argument that Democrats need to reclaim the traditional values

Quote

Presenting his marriage as an elusive example of liberalism fused with tradition

[Biff Tannen 45,688]

15 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The replies made me laugh. 

 

Hope ya like butts!

[LonghornJudas 1,097]

18 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Well, I was sort of on board the Mayor Pete thing because of the James Joyce reference.  But he said that his inauguration day "dream performer" would be Phish, so I'm rethinking my support.   Not sure I'm ready for a psychedelic inauguration that last for hours.

I was hoping he'd say Rage Against the Machine, because the first person to suggest that just might get my vote.

[F250 28,777]

15 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The replies made me laugh. 

 

This is the first attack of many more to come. I don't see how the social conservatives get through this without political self immolation.

[WhatTheBuck 28,783]

On April 17, 2019 at 11:10 PM, Degenerate Gardner said:

Republicans have been waiting for a gay Democrat with "butt" embedded in his name for generations. 

Some haven't waited that long. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,783]

On April 18, 2019 at 6:03 PM, F250 said:

This isn't one of his best ideas. I believe Clinton kicked around this idea in the 90's.

Pete Buttigieg suggests national service program

 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/pete-buttigieg-national-service-program-1277274

Sort of like Israel. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,783]

On April 18, 2019 at 7:10 PM, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Well, I was sort of on board the Mayor Pete thing because of the James Joyce reference.  But he said that his inauguration day "dream performer" would be Phish, so I'm rethinking my support.   Not sure I'm ready for a psychedelic inauguration that last for hours.

Sounds like a dig at the Senator from Vermont. Fish would probably veto the gig anyway. He's a Bernie supporter. 

[Crusher 127]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:03 PM, F250 said:

This isn't one of his best ideas. I believe Clinton kicked around this idea in the 90's.

 

Pete Buttigieg suggests national service program

 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/pete-buttigieg-national-service-program-1277274

Yeah.. I believe Hitler had the same idea.

[Hank Kingsley 20,942]

 

[Hank Kingsley 20,942]

Huh. Apparently Pete's mom got her bachelor's and master's degrees at Texas. Pretty cool. 

https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/jennifer-montgomery-pete-buttigieg-mother/

[henrygandorf 29,191]

19 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Huh. Apparently Pete's mom got her bachelor's and master's degrees at Texas. Pretty cool. 

https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/jennifer-montgomery-pete-buttigieg-mother/

unrelated, but does anyone know where the connection came from steve adler and mayor pete?  i've actually seen pete connected to a few local austin politicians, kinda came out of nowhere, and is interesting, considering other candidates that might have a clearer geographical overlap.

[Hank Kingsley 20,942]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

unrelated, but does anyone know where the connection came from steve adler and mayor pete?  i've actually seen pete connected to a few local austin politicians, kinda came out of nowhere, and is interesting, considering other candidates that might have a clearer geographical overlap.

I just read about it. I think they got to know each other through the Texas-ND football games. They made friendly bets on their hometown team. Adler sent Buttigieg some Franklin's barbecue after 2015 game. Pete came down to Austin for the game in 2016. 

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

23 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Huh. Apparently Pete's mom got her bachelor's and master's degrees at Texas. Pretty cool. 

https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/jennifer-montgomery-pete-buttigieg-mother/

As did James McCord, former CIA spook and leader of the watergate hotel break in, who got his bachelors degree from UT. Learned that today as well. 

All roads lead through Austin apparently. What’s starts here and whatnot. 

[Celery Man 20,952]

😪

c'mon pete, don't pick it up if you can neither tune it nor play it

[Texas Jeff 1,945]

On 4/18/2019 at 5:03 PM, F250 said:

This isn't one of his best ideas. I believe Clinton kicked around this idea in the 90's.

 

Pete Buttigieg suggests national service program

 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/pete-buttigieg-national-service-program-1277274

I worked for a German company in the 1990s and met a lot of German engineers that went through their compulsory military service.  In their program, you could do active duty for some amount of time, like 12 months, or a public service job for longer, like 18 months.  Most of them did it after college and before starting their first "real" job.  I don't remember the exact details but that's the general idea.  The Germans I met seemed to have a broad perspective on the range of people in their country, partially from meeting all kinds of people during their service.

I would be OK with a program here if it was voluntary, but I'm not sure I'm ready for a compulsory program.  It would be nice if you could do it at any age, so that even people in their 60s who had not yet "done their time" would have a chance to do it and feel like they had given some service back to their country.

[Asithappens 974]

I think the strength in such a program would be largely tied to it being compulsory.

Of course, the entitled parents of all the Olivia Jades of the world would fight such a program tooth and manicured nail.

[NBMisha 224]

I think that "at any age" would be essential to garner broad support.  Having said that, this type of program would be inconsistent with the essential American value of selfishness.

[Js1 85,342]

10 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

I worked for a German company in the 1990s and met a lot of German engineers that went through their compulsory military service.  In their program, you could do active duty for some amount of time, like 12 months, or a public service job for longer, like 18 months.  Most of them did it after college and before starting their first "real" job.  I don't remember the exact details but that's the general idea.  The Germans I met seemed to have a broad perspective on the range of people in their country, partially from meeting all kinds of people during their service.

I would be OK with a program here if it was voluntary, but I'm not sure I'm ready for a compulsory program.  It would be nice if you could do it at any age, so that even people in their 60s who had not yet "done their time" would have a chance to do it and feel like they had given some service back to their country.

How about if you tied it to student loan relief?  For instance, the public service job - a portion is forgiven.  Active duty - a much higher portion is forgiven (putting life on the line).  Still 100% voluntary as well - the Olivia Jades of the world don't need to do it because mom and dad paid for them to go to school, but fuck, I would have done a public service job for 18 months to cut down how much I owed out of school. 

[406W30th 1,111]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

How about if you tied it to student loan relief?  For instance, the public service job - a portion is forgiven.  Active duty - a much higher portion is forgiven (putting life on the line).  Still 100% voluntary as well - the Olivia Jades of the world don't need to do it because mom and dad paid for them to go to school, but fuck, I would have done a public service job for 18 months to cut down how much I owed out of school. 

I love this idea. 

[bad_teammate 13,196]

What if we just made public higher education tuition-free and didn't tie it to forced labor?

[406W30th 1,111]

Curious what my fellow Buttheads think about this:

Pete Buttigieg Fired South Bend's Black Police Chief. It Still Stings.

 

On the one hand, it's a very difficult situation for a young mayor, and if a ton of pressure was indeed being applied by the feds, I'm not sure what else he could have done. But I do feel like he should have been more sensitive in handling a number of aspects of that case.

In some ways, it does make me doubt his readiness for the job – not necessarily how it all went down, but more so that the more someone is put through those kinds of tests, the better for everyone, and I'm not sure he's been through enough yet to be ready for the presidency.  

[Js1 85,342]

32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What if we just made public higher education tuition-free and didn't tie it to forced labor?

Who said forced?  We all agreed it should be voluntary. 

Fratty McGee isn't going to graduate from law school and opt to do public service/active duty in lieu of his $200k big law job.   And no one should force him, it's his choice.  Maybe Sunflower Wildchild would rather make artisan jewelry from hemp alongside her minimum wage Starbucks job instead.  That's her right.  No one should force her.

The centristy "We can't afford it!" centrists are not going to let public higher education be tuition-free anytime soon.  Won't be enough of them in Congress (read: Senate) to make it happen. 

[Hank Kingsley 20,942]

48 minutes ago, 406W30th said:

Curious what my fellow Buttheads think about this:

Pete Buttigieg Fired South Bend's Black Police Chief. It Still Stings.

 

On the one hand, it's a very difficult situation for a young mayor, and if a ton of pressure was indeed being applied by the feds, I'm not sure what else he could have done. But I do feel like he should have been more sensitive in handling a number of aspects of that case.

In some ways, it does make me doubt his readiness for the job – not necessarily how it all went down, but more so that the more someone is put through those kinds of tests, the better for everyone, and I'm not sure he's been through enough yet to be ready for the presidency.  

He made an executive decision and continues to stand by it, while realizing it was hard for the entire community. 29 year old Mayor inherited a messy situation. I think his re-election speaks for South Bend's continued trust in him. 

How many times does a Congressperson have to personally deal with a situation like this? I honestly don't know.  I'd guess Pete has learned a lot and it will make him a better executive. 

 

 

[Celery Man 20,952]

29 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Who said forced?  We all agreed it should be voluntary. 

Fratty McGee isn't going to graduate from law school and opt to do public service/active duty in lieu of his $200k big law job.   And no one should force him, it's his choice.  Maybe Sunflower Wildchild would rather make artisan jewelry from hemp alongside her minimum wage Starbucks job instead.  That's her right.  No one should force her.

The centristy "We can't afford it!" centrists are not going to let public higher education be tuition-free anytime soon.  Won't be enough of them in Congress (read: Senate) to make it happen. 

Interesting thing would be it becoming a demerit against Fratty McGee 15 years later in his political career 

[bad_teammate 13,196]

43 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Who said forced?  We all agreed it should be voluntary. 

Pete, who offered the idea as "if not legally obligatory", which means it is at least an option. Also, I strongly oppose even pushing poorer Americans to serve the nation for their education. It's the further enshrinement of our economic caste system.

14 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

29 year old Mayor inherited a messy situation.  ... I'd guess Pete has learned a lot and it will make him a better executive.

Are we talking about a potential president or someone's talented, yet underachieving, son?

[406W30th 1,111]

13 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

How many times does a Congressperson have to personally deal with a situation like this? I honestly don't know.  I'd guess Pete has learned a lot and it will make him a better executive. 

 

 

It's the debate I have with my wife all the time – and my stance is that more experience as a legislator does not a better executive make. There's some benefit to having familiarity with how the sausage gets made, but ultimately most Congresspersons don't have a ton of experience in being the one who has to make the tough calls. 

 

[406W30th 1,111]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Pete, who offered the idea as "if not legally obligatory", which means it is at least an option. Also, I strongly oppose even pushing poorer Americans to serve the nation for their education. It's the further enshrinement of our economic caste system.

At the risk of derailing the Mayor Pete thread, I think that the way a public-service-for-student-loan-debt-relief would work is not in a pure dollar-for-dollar sense, but rather wiping out a percentage of your debt. 50% relief in exchange for one year; 100% for two years. I don't know, just spitballing, but I agree that it shouldn't be a trivial amount and that it should be the equivalent of a high-paying job.

[Hank Kingsley 20,942]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Are we talking about a potential president or someone's talented, yet underachieving, son?

We're talking about the potential president that scares the Bernie campaign so much that they are desperately and disingenuously going after him. 

 

[bad_teammate 13,196]

11 minutes ago, 406W30th said:

At the risk of derailing the Mayor Pete thread, I think that the way a public-service-for-student-loan-debt-relief would work is not in a pure dollar-for-dollar sense, but rather wiping out a percentage of your debt. 50% relief in exchange for one year; 100% for two years. I don't know, just spitballing, but I agree that it shouldn't be a trivial amount and that it should be the equivalent of a high-paying job.

I don't think discussing a candidate's policy ideas (such as they are) is derailing a candidate thread. It seems the most pertinent thing possible to discuss.

Regarding the whole school-debt-relief-contingent-upon-public-service idea... I just do not understand what the point is. Is this sincerely an upper class telling the lower class "this is for your own good and the good of the motherland" thing? Why do we need an excuse to give the children of the working classes a similar advantage to the children of the wealth classes? Why do those kids have to do extra work for it?

Proposed TED Talk: Innovatively Disrupting Noblesse Oblige into Peasant Oblige

[NWBuck 8,568]

55 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

He made an executive decision and continues to stand by it, while realizing it was hard for the entire community. 29 year old Mayor inherited a messy situation. I think his re-election speaks for South Bend's continued trust in him. 

How many times does a Congressperson have to personally deal with a situation like this? I honestly don't know.  I'd guess Pete has learned a lot and it will make him a better executive. 

 

 

I disagree. Presidents must know how to terminate a staffer via tweet, or at a minimum having someone else do it for them. 

[Hank Kingsley 20,942]

 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

What if we just made public higher education tuition-free and didn't tie it to forced labor?

that's a half-trillion dollar joke you just made.

but sure looks great on a bumper sticker!

i liked the part about forced labor.

[bad_teammate 13,196]

11 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

that's a half-trillion dollar joke you just made.

but sure looks great on a bumper sticker!

i liked the part about forced labor.

Indistinguishable from Icono.

"no seriously I want to have substantive discussions!" lol

46 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

<Pundit Nate Tweet>

Buttigieg continues to show strength with highly-educated white liberal voters, which will serve him very well in primaries where the majority of voters will be white. If he can continue this momentum for another 10 months and show strong in Iowa and New Hampshire then he sets himself up well moving forward. He basically doesn't exist to other voter bases, though, and poll after poll confirming this should be concerning. The type of white liberals who like Pete are reliable Democrats already and he hasn't shown an ability to bring anyone in who isn't already in.

It actually looks like a very traditional play-to-the-base candidacy right now.

I'll be interested to see the full crosstabs when Gravis makes them available.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Indistinguishable from Icono.

"no seriously I want to have substantive discussions!" lol

do you hear yourself?  you jump into a conversation about potential mandatory public service and whether or not it could be tied to tuition relief, and you just shout out "why can't it be free for everybody?!" which of course is something bernie supports.  what you don't mention is that it would cost over $70bb a year (not counting the $30bb the states would have to kick in).  and then you add in the phrase "forced labor" like some sort of shock-jock.

sure, free college would be great.  but that's not where the conversation ends.  you make a drive-by statement, you'll get a drive-by response.

and if you call me icono again, we're gonna have a real problem.  that's a fucking hate crime right there.

[bad_teammate 13,196]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

sure, free college would be great.  but that's not where the conversation ends.

Who said that's where it ended? My posts on this topic offer 4 questions that you could engage with. Questions are, by nature, invitations to further conversation.

I am happy to discuss any aspect of it you like. Ask me a question and I will be happy to answer.

Quote

and if you call me icono again, we're gonna have a real problem.

lol ok

[henrygandorf 29,191]

16 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Who said that's where it ended? My posts on this topic offer 4 questions that you could engage with. Questions are, by nature, invitations to further conversation.

I am happy to discuss any aspect of it you like. Ask me a question and I will be happy to answer.

ok, how will we pay for bernie's plan?  how much will it cost?  does that factor in the rising number of kids who will want to go to college now that it's free?  what percentage of college will be covered in such a plan (is it only tuition for in-state, etc)?

what are the long term impact benefits (besides relief from student loan burden)?  will it make us a smarter country?  smarter workforce?  has free tuition worked in other countries (notably, countries that are ahead of us in certain stats re:education)?  do countries that are considered "more educated" than us offer free tuition? 

is there any type of benefit or incentive to the student to graduate, other than the obvious degree?  is there a downside to offering up a compromise like pete has thrown around (college is free if you put in some public service)? 

and finally, will the investment pay for itself?

 

(i understand some of these are "unknowable" questions, i'm just trying to get the ball rolling, because this is a topic that interests me, as do most "easy-fix" big-idea" political campaign button ideas)

Edited April 22, 2019 by henrygandorf

[henrygandorf 29,191]

also (extra credit!) how do you feel about warren's college plan and how it compares?  she seems to be taking aim on some of the bernie turf.

this one i'm asking because i haven't really looked at her plan in detail yet at all.

[TexEx15 17,533]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Indistinguishable from Icono.

"no seriously I want to have substantive discussions!" lol

Buttigieg continues to show strength with highly-educated white liberal voters, which will serve him very well in primaries where the majority of voters will be white. If he can continue this momentum for another 10 months and show strong in Iowa and New Hampshire then he sets himself up well moving forward. He basically doesn't exist to other voter bases, though, and poll after poll confirming this should be concerning. The type of white liberals who like Pete are reliable Democrats already and he hasn't shown an ability to bring anyone in who isn't already in.

It actually looks like a very traditional play-to-the-base candidacy right now.

I'll be interested to see the full crosstabs when Gravis makes them available.

This far out from primaries let alone the election I would imagine there is a kind of pre-existing bias as to whom is naturally gravitating towards which candidate.  Bernie and Beto (Biden if he runs) have an established foundation on which to draw from so it seems that is where some of their diversity stems from early on compared to Pete.  Pete is only now creating that national foundation.  I imagine he will see an increase in diversity as the election season progresses and he becomes more familiar to those not closely following this far out from an election.

Edited April 22, 2019 by TexEx15

[henrygandorf 29,191]

if anyone needed a full account of the soundbyte, fallout, and twitter opinions:

Bernie Sanders backers upset with Pete Buttigieg over Trump comparison

By Liam Quinn | Fox News

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Some Bernie Sanders supporters didn't seem thrilled after Mayor Pete Buttigieg compared parts of the Vermont Senator's base to that of President Trump. (AP)

It doesn’t seem like Bernie’s bros with Mayor Pete. Or at least his supporters aren't.

Buttigieg, the mayor of South Bend, Ind., made headlines when he compared President Trump’s supporters to those who back Bernie Sanders, stating both groups feel marginalized and want to tear down the system.

 

“I think the sense of anger and disaffection that comes from seeing that the numbers are fine, like unemployment’s low, like all that, like you said GDP is growing and yet a lot of neighborhoods and families are living like this recovery never even happened,” the 37-year-old told high school students in Nashua, N.H.

“It just kind of turns you against the system in general and then you’re more likely to want to vote to blow up the system, which could lead you to somebody like Bernie and it could lead you to somebody like Trump. I think that’s how we got where we are.”

But the statement seemingly hasn’t gone over well with those who support Sanders -- including some prominent Democrats.

“Come on ⁦@PeteButtigieg⁩. It is intellectually dishonest to compare Bernie to Trump,” Rep. Ro Khanna, D-Calif., tweeted, before listing some policy differences between Sanders and the president.

Nina Turner, a vocal supporter of Sanders, tweeted: “Bernie Sanders’ supporters are not the same as Trump fans — Sen. @BernieSanders supporters are Democratic & Independent voters, many of whom are people of color.”

Citizen Uprising, a far-left Twitter account, sent out a post reading: “Pete Buttigieg is officially over. He just blamed Trump AND Bernie voters for the problems we currently face.”

PETE BUTTIGIEG WAS VOTED 'MOST LIKELY TO BE PRESIDENT' IN HIGH SCHOOL: REPORT

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However, Rep. Khanna’s and others protests were quickly shot down, with one prominent analyst referring to the California Democrat as a “Sanders surrogate.”

“This is an extremely weird Narrative coming from some Sanders surrogates. Buttigieg's comments were extremely boilerplate, basically that Trump and Sanders voters both suffer economic anxiety and are disaffected with the system,” FiveThirtyEight’s Nate Silver tweeted.

TRUMP WOULD BEAT SANDERS IN 2020 MATCHUP, OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER SAYS 

“It's an extremely weird thing to get upset about unless they're deliberately looking to pick a fight with Buttigieg.”

Ro Khanna

 

✔@RoKhanna

 

 

Come on ⁦@PeteButtigieg⁩. It is intellectually dishonest to compare Bernie to Trump. Bernie is for giving people healthcare, education, childcare, & more pay. He wants to blow up credentialed elitism — those who reject tuition free college for all. https://nypost.com/2019/04/21/pete-buttigieg-compares-bernie-supporters-and-trump-fans/ …

 

11.7K

6:42 PM - Apr 21, 2019

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Pete Buttigieg compares Bernie supporters and Trump fans

Democratic candidate Pete Buttigieg compared Bernie Sanders’ supporters with fans of President Trump — claiming that both camps include disaffected citizens who seek to change the status

nypost.com

 

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Nina Turner

 

✔@ninaturner

 

 

Bernie Sanders’ supporters are not the same as Trump fans — Sen. @BernieSanders supporters are Democratic & Independent voters, many of whom are people of color.

 

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5:31 PM - Apr 21, 2019

 

3,528 people are talking about this

 

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Nate Silver

 

✔@NateSilver538

 

 

And if I'm playing Early Morning Bad Narrative Cop, this is an extremely weird Narrative coming from some Sanders surrogates. Buttigieg's comments were extremely boilerplate, basically that Trump and Sanders voters both suffer economic anxiety and are disaffected with the system.

Ro Khanna

 

✔@RoKhanna

 

Come on ⁦@PeteButtigieg⁩. It is intellectually dishonest to compare Bernie to Trump. Bernie is for giving people healthcare, education, childcare, & more pay. He wants to blow up credentialed elitism — those who reject tuition free college for all. https://nypost.com/2019/04/21/pete-buttigieg-compares-bernie-supporters-and-trump-fans/ …

 

3,360

3:26 AM - Apr 22, 2019

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M. Mendoza Ferrer@mgranville1

 

Replying to @mgranville1

 

So, it's interesting that the Sanders camp, including Ro Khanna, are upset with @PeteButtigieg for basically stating that Trump and Sanders voters both suffer economic anxiety and are disaffected with the system - because that is pretty much all Bernie Sanders ever says.

 

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7:59 AM - Apr 22, 2019

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New York-based writer M. Mendoz Ferrer also took issue with complaints from those on the Sanders side.

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“So, it's interesting that the Sanders camp, including Ro Khanna, are upset with @PeteButtigieg for basically stating that Trump and Sanders voters both suffer economic anxiety and are disaffected with the system - because that is pretty much all Bernie Sanders ever says,” she tweeted.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bernie-sanders-backers-upset-with-mayor-pete-buttigieg-over-trump-comparison