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Buttigieg 2020

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Hank Kingsley
Hank Kingsley

and English.   

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

look dude, i understand that the political forum is "the wild west", but in a sea of bad takes and unnecessary obnoxiousness for the sake of theater likely stemming from some sort of irrational fear,

Chuckie Finster
Chuckie Finster

Now that it’s over... Pete wasn’t ready to be President, but a giant fuck you to the Bernie crew for how personal and intense the attacks got against him.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

Posted
Posted

Everyone looks terrible in the polls as COMET JOE hits its apex (I know this metaphor makes no scientific sense go to hell nerds). Pete shall rise again

(someone please tell me it's the apex. I can lol my way through the apocalypse but I'd really rather us not just keep sliding inexorably downward to climate disaster and moral hell)

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TDunk

TDunk 590

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, troph said:


But someone out there is having buttsex and calling it a marriage. O_o

And they must really want to have a child because they cannot create one themselves.  Which I have no issue with.  #Nomistakes.   

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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what?

Word salad

“It’s like our relationship with America,” the 37-year-old mayor of South Bend, Indiana, told BuzzFeed News in a recent interview. “You have to be certain; you have to believe in this project enough to see where it’s going to come up short and care that you’re going to fix it. And I guess I need those kinds of checks. I needed people in my administration whose eyebrows would go up at a meeting when we were all starting to drift into one policy direction when we hadn’t thought about something. And the same should be true of a campaign.”

Buttigieg said his campaign’s proposals and plans could help. “But in order for it to work, it actually has to be built by a range of diverse voices, both in terms of our staff organization and in terms of our supporters. The tone of a campaign is maybe set by the candidate, but it’s lived out by its supporters. And so I need people who care enough about what I’m doing to be excited, but are not without skepticism that it’ll be what they hope it to be.”

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

what?

Word salad

“It’s like our relationship with America,” the 37-year-old mayor of South Bend, Indiana, told BuzzFeed News in a recent interview. “You have to be certain; you have to believe in this project enough to see where it’s going to come up short and care that you’re going to fix it. And I guess I need those kinds of checks. I needed people in my administration whose eyebrows would go up at a meeting when we were all starting to drift into one policy direction when we hadn’t thought about something. And the same should be true of a campaign.”

Buttigieg said his campaign’s proposals and plans could help. “But in order for it to work, it actually has to be built by a range of diverse voices, both in terms of our staff organization and in terms of our supporters. The tone of a campaign is maybe set by the candidate, but it’s lived out by its supporters. And so I need people who care enough about what I’m doing to be excited, but are not without skepticism that it’ll be what they hope it to be.”

what's the exact opposite of our current dictator-king-president?

let's crowdsource america!

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TexEx15

TexEx15 17509

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

what?

Word salad

“It’s like our relationship with America,” the 37-year-old mayor of South Bend, Indiana, told BuzzFeed News in a recent interview. “You have to be certain; you have to believe in this project enough to see where it’s going to come up short and care that you’re going to fix it. And I guess I need those kinds of checks. I needed people in my administration whose eyebrows would go up at a meeting when we were all starting to drift into one policy direction when we hadn’t thought about something. And the same should be true of a campaign.”

Buttigieg said his campaign’s proposals and plans could help. “But in order for it to work, it actually has to be built by a range of diverse voices, both in terms of our staff organization and in terms of our supporters. The tone of a campaign is maybe set by the candidate, but it’s lived out by its supporters. And so I need people who care enough about what I’m doing to be excited, but are not without skepticism that it’ll be what they hope it to be.”

Pretty easy to understand and refreshing to hear a presidential candidate openly say I can only do so much but need input from all walks of life.  Like Gandorf said, the opposite of Trump.

BT your Pete hating bit is old so please feel free to move along.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TexEx15 said:

Pretty easy to understand and refreshing to hear a presidential candidate openly say I can only do so much but need input from all walks of life. 

Sure but... what is he actually doing to get that input?

Is he hiring diverse campaign staff? Is he taking on a diverse group of advisers? Is he coming up with policies aimed at communities of color?

What does that stuff actually mean?

Perhaps it means something, but it sounds like vague word salad.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20921

Posted
Posted
Just now, bad_teammate said:

Thanks for the info. This is all 5 months after he announced, so the defensiveness acting like this has been a basic aspect of his campaign from the beginning and I'm being a bad-faith critic is off-base. But hey, you guys do your thing.

93a73887eb056b911e02371398852b63.gif

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TexEx15

TexEx15 17509

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Thanks for the info. This is all 5 months after he announced, so the defensiveness acting like this has been a basic aspect of his campaign from the beginning and I'm being a bad-faith critic is off-base. But hey, you guys do your thing.

Why are you the way you are?

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Thanks for the info. This is all 5 months after he announced, so the defensiveness acting like this has been a basic aspect of his campaign from the beginning and I'm being a bad-faith critic is off-base. But hey, you guys do your thing.

inaccurate, but hey, you keep doing your thing.

he did his exploratory, he finally announced, and most of us here said he would address everything - including staff, policies, and new issues (like speaking to poc) - on a proper calendar like an smart, organized candidate, and on his own timetable (even though he himself confessed things ramped up quicker than he projected).

nobody is fighting with you here.  you made fun of a quote, then it got better explained to you.  you countered with specific questions, which then got answered.  you followed up requesting links and details, which then were provided.  nobody is being hostile or showing animosity.

no attacks, no defensiveness, just a pretty encouraging show of developments over the past few weeks.

you used to like pete.  your correct response really should look more like, "good for him, these look like smart moves."  but hey, you do you.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20921

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Thanks for the info. This is all 5 months after he announced, so the defensiveness acting like this has been a basic aspect of his campaign from the beginning and I'm being a bad-faith critic is off-base. But hey, you guys do your thing.

You might want to get out of the Bernie bubble on Twitter. I didn't say you were acting in bad faith, but I'd guess the people you follow on social media are being purposely disingenuous. 

Also, he formally announced his candidacy less than a month ago ( you knew that though), and he had less than 50 employees on his campaign as of a couple of days ago.  99% of people didn't know his name until 2 months ago (you knew that though). 

Of course you're not alone with the anti-Pete stuff. It's been a coordinated effort from Bernie diehards ever since Buttigieg showed a pulse in the polls. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

inaccurate, but hey, you keep doing your thing.

he did his exploratory, he finally announced, and most of us here said he would address everything - including staff, policies, and new issues (like speaking to poc) - on a proper calendar like an smart, organized candidate, and on his own timetable (even though he himself confessed things ramped up quicker than he projected).nobody is fighting with you here.  you made fun of a quote, then it got better explained to you.  you countered with specific questions, which then got answered.  you followed up requesting links and details, which then were provided.  nobody is being hostile or showing animosity.

What's this, then?

40 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

right, but like, any full resumes, references, or family trees?  elementary school report cards?  meet me halfway here.

 

6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

You might want to get out of the Bernie bubble on Twitter. I didn't say you were acting in bad faith, but I'd guess the people you follow on social media are being purposely disingenuous. 

What's this, then?

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

just asking questions 

You guys are pretty pathetic with your emotional defensiveness with regard to Pete. You can't help but snipe at any critical view and then you recall you're supposed to be above-it-all so you pretend you aren't doing it.

I'm happy to fight, and I don't bother pretending I'm not.

 

Quote

 Of course you're not alone with the anti-Pete stuff. It's been a coordinated effort from Bernie diehards ever since Buttigieg showed a pulse in the polls. 

My skepticism of Pete has grown as I find out more about him. Warren is also showing a pulse, but am I going after her? Might policy and background and ideas and vision be part of the story here? What of the seeming reality that the only people who are buying Pete's product right now are college-educated white liberals? Is that also a Bernie Bro conspiracy? 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20921

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

My skepticism of Pete has grown as I find out more about him. Warren is also showing a pulse, but am I going after her? Might policy and background and ideas and vision be part of the story here? What of the seeming reality that the only people who are buying Pete's product right now are college-educated white liberals? Is that also a Bernie Bro conspiracy? 

Well, clearly you're not finding out much about him. You didn't know that he actually has a diverse staff. I follow a lot of progressives/pro-Bernie people on Twitter. You parrot a lot of their complaints, and I'm flatly saying that a lot of the shit Pete gets right now from these people is disingenuous. 

Pete definitely needs to reach out to minorities. He's struggling with them right now and needs "quantity time" (as Pete puts it) with POC. But again, as you very well know, Pete was a complete unknown to the public until literally 60 days ago. He's a white, gay male that has spent the majority of his life in South Bend, Indiana. It's an issue, but the fact that you seem incredulous that he hasn't connected with POC yet is laughable. And you know it. 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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Posted
Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Well, clearly you're not finding out much about him.

What percentage of the population do you think knows more about Pete than me? Pays more attention to him?

Quote

Pete definitely needs to reach out to minorities. He's struggling with them right now and needs "quantity time" (as Pete puts it) with POC. But again, as you very well know, Pete was a complete unknown to the public until literally 60 days ago. He's a white, gay male that has spent the majority of his life in South Bend, Indiana. It's an issue, but the fact that you seem incredulous that he hasn't connected with POC yet is laughable. And you know it. 

Incredulous? lol no

It's 100% believable that he's fairly isolated from everything that isn't highly-educated white liberalism. That's exactly what I see in him. It doesn't surprise me at all. Raised by progressive college professors then onto Harvard and Oxford and McKinsey and then joining the Naval reserves out of noblesse oblige is basically the whitest, most liberal path a screenwriter could come up with.

My issue is that I don't like the idea of a 37-year-old, white male president who has to learn about this stuff on the job and when I see him spouting word salad about those things, it just reinforces my misgivings.

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

You know what throwing shade is, right? Have you lost your sense of humor as well? 

Sure, but it's weak and the "I'M VERY YOUNG!" gimmick is about as tiring as his talent show routine.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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Posted

 

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

nobody is fighting with you here.  you made fun of a quote, then it got better explained to you.  you countered with specific questions, which then got answered.  you followed up requesting links and details, which then were provided.  nobody is being hostile or showing animosity.

 

56 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What's this, then?

 

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

right, but like, any full resumes, references, or family trees?  elementary school report cards?  meet me halfway here.

this is several things. 

first off, it's me gently ribbing @Hank Kingsley who i've known in real life for a long long time.  like in "the departed" when dicaprio quotes hawthorne to martin sheen, and to bust balls, mark wahlberg retorts with, "what's the matter, smart-ass, you don't know any fucking shakespeare?"  hank answered "yes, yes, yes" and then did a thorough and impressive job backing up his statements, and i felt like busting his balls a little.

the fact that you even thought it was directed at you is you being outrageously hypersensitive.  the notion that you characterized my comment as "hostile or showing animosity" is just plain silly.

 

in case you haven't noticed, ever since the well-deserved dressing down i gave you a few weeks ago, i have kept things very very civil (at least to you), because i have no real interest in the circular firing squad many are hoping for from the left.  it's also why i resist going on twitter (any more than i feel i have to).  i have gone out of my way several times to avoid mixing it up, because i find it counter-productive and boring. 

i've had more fun lately on the trump related threads honestly, and even there i try to keep things moderately decent, which is often, a challenge.

you literally just uttered the phrase, "i'm happy to fight."  that doesn't mean everyone else is.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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Posted
9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

you literally just uttered the phrase, "i'm happy to fight."  that doesn't mean everyone else is.

What is this post, then? Or this one? Or this one? Try to be honest about it if you can.

I say something critical of Pete, it gets immediately made personal about me, and I'm not supposed to respond? I'm fine with busting balls and fighting. But if that's what we're doing then that's what we're doing. We can choose one or the other. I'm very happy to talk about candidates and policy instead of making it personal, and you can scroll up and see for yourself who continually makes it personal, and it's not me.

If you're going to be handing out red cards, why not hand them to your buddies, as well? Probably better to stop pretending you're a referee altogether. 

"well-deserved dressing down" lol fuck off with this nannying bullshit

The reality is that Pete is trying to become the most powerful man in the world and real questions remain about his suitability to be something more than a white man technocrat who only learns about how to serve underprivileged communities after he breaks a few eggs. From the perspective of the college-educated white liberal it makes for a nice redemption story and story about how good he is at learning, but it would be nice to see foresight and leadership on the issue given its importance.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20921

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What is this post, then? Or this one? Or this one? Try to be honest about it if you can.

Your first link was my response to this question from you:   "Is he hiring diverse campaign staff? Is he taking on a diverse group of advisers? Is he coming up with policies aimed at communities of color?" 

What do you "honestly" think the answers to those questions are? "No, he only hires white people. No, he only has white advisers. No he's only coming up with policies aimed at white people".  BT, I know you're an intelligent and well informed politics guy.  Because of that, I just take those questions as being completely disingenuous. You're the one picking the fight with a lazy and stupid list of questions. 

As for the last link you posted, I was specifically addressing Bernie supporters on Twitter. But do I think you've gone overboard and parroted their bullshit? Yes. 

 

 

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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Posted
3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What is this post, then? Or this one? Or this one? Try to be honest about it if you can.

I say something critical of Pete, it gets immediately made personal about me, and I'm not supposed to respond? I'm fine with busting balls and fighting. But if that's what we're doing then that's what we're doing. We can choose one or the other. I'm very happy to talk about candidates and policy instead of making it personal, and you can scroll up and see for yourself who continually makes it personal, and it's not me.

so i'm not being honest because some other people said things you consider hostile and "fightin' words"?  those were all pretty benign comments, and none of it was really "personal".  they're about bernie, or the bros, because those are your peeps, so maybe it's personal to you.  but i didn't think anything was a legit personal attack - there's plenty of that around here, and it's pretty rough.

and yeah, this isn't a sports board, but you shouldn't act the same way on your home thread (bernie) or neutral thread (2020 candidate) as you do on a visitor thread (pete).  or if you do, you should expect some pushback.  that's being as honest with you as i can be.  i don't consider myself "above it all" but i've spent the better part of two decades as part of this community, so if i feel like playing nanny, i will.  any jackass can burn down a barn. 

and if you want to reread my sentence, i said you were happy to fight.  i also said i wasn't interested.  then i said not everyone wants to fight.  i never said you were the only one who wanted to fight.  i'm sure you'll find plenty of people who want to fight with you.  that doesn't make me a liar.  

i think in many of those cases, people are short with you because they don't feel like you "fight" in good faith and are tired of engaging with you like that.  it's a pretty common sentiment around here, which is something i'm sure you're aware of. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

What do you "honestly" think the answers to those questions are?

I don't know, which is why I asked. It's not like Pete's record as mayor of South Bend has been confidence-inspiring with regard to racial issues, so I don't know why I would be expected to assume that he's surrounded by people of color and speaking specifically to issues relating to those populations when his history on the issue doesn't indicate that should be assumed.

Thinking it is disingenuous to even question Pete is an absurd position to have.

8 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so i'm not being honest because some other people said things you consider hostile and "fightin' words"?

You're not honest about the nature of the conversation. I posted something questioning Pete (in the Pete thread, which is ostensibly where Pete discussion should go). It is immediately turned into a personal criticism of me by two different posters. Referee Henry comes flying in throwing a red card at... me.

Referee Henry sucks at his job and he should stop pretending that it is his job in the first place.

Quote

and yeah, this isn't a sports board, but you shouldn't act the same way on your home thread (bernie) or neutral thread (2020 candidate) as you do on a visitor thread (pete).

Do you accept that perhaps your interpretation of the purpose of these threads is not the actual purpose of these threads? 

The candidate threads are for discussion of the candidates themselves.

The 2020 candidate overall thread is for discussion of the race.

The fact that you want them to be Boosters-Only threads doesn't make them Boosters-Only threads. Start a "Positive Pete Stuff Only" thread and you won't find me in there being critical.

Again, you're a dogshit referee.

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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Posted
28 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

and yeah, this isn't a sports board, but you shouldn't act the same way on your home thread (bernie) or neutral thread (2020 candidate) as you do on a visitor thread (pete).  or if you do, you should expect some pushback.  that's being as honest with you as i can be.

 

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Do you accept that perhaps your interpretation of the purpose of these threads is not the actual purpose of these threads? 

The candidate threads are for discussion of the candidates themselves.

The 2020 candidate overall thread is for discussion of the race.

The fact that you want them to be Boosters-Only threads doesn't make them Boosters-Only threads. Start a "Positive Pete Stuff Only" thread and you won't find me in there being critical.

Again, you're a dogshit referee.

funny, but i bolded the portion i wanted to make sure you saw, but of course, you conveniently left it off the part you chose to quote.  you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing - being disingenuous or arguing in bad faith.

i didn't say not to speak your mind.  but i did say to expect some pushback if you come in fighting.  this is very mild.  if you can't take what's in here, how do you deal with twitter?  or the world?

you've spent the last couple weeks (since some stories and polls were released) giving pete a hard time about speaking to poc.  you never missed an opportunity to sound off on it.  maybe you didn't know about his recent hires or policies, or maybe you did.  either way, as a positive light on the dem side (one of many) i would think a true party supporter would have at least a semi-positive reaction to what pete is doing. 

guess not.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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Posted
7 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

ut i did say to expect some pushback if you come in fighting.  this is very mild.  if you can't take what's in here, how do you deal with twitter?  or the world?

As I said, I'm happy to bust balls and fight. I'm fine with streetball. What's annoying, though, is when there's a kid on the driveway who cries and calls fouls after the guys on his team start the roughhousing.

Quote

maybe you didn't know about his recent hires or policies, or maybe you did. 

Why would I ask those questions if I already knew about those recent hires? Why would it be expected that I knew about them?

I'm not very impressed with Pete as a candidate/person and I'm skeptical of his fitness to be much more than a neoliberal technocrat, but when have I lied about him or pretended not to know something?

I'm happy to expound at length as to why I don't really like Pete very much relative to 3-4 of the other candidates. I guess you just find that so unthinkable that it HAS to be a conspiracy, eh?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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Posted

Speaking of streetball, Hank said earlier something about me appreciating a Trump joke as if it's unconscionable to laugh at one of Trump's jokes and yes, absolutely, I am guilty as charged. I hate Donald and virtually everything he stands for, but he can pull some bully moves better than anyone at his level of office and it can be impressive to see how effective and funny his petty, ignorant bullshit can get.

It was a good bit. You take the hit, smile it off, and move on.

"Well, actually, the reason I'm not owned is that you're old!" is a lame comeback. It's a good hit, take the L and go to the next game.

imgur

 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20921

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Speaking of streetball, Hank said earlier something about me appreciating a Trump joke as if it's unconscionable to laugh at one of Trump's jokes and yes, absolutely, I am guilty as charged. I hate Donald and virtually everything he stands for, but he can pull some bully moves better than anyone at his level of office and it can be impressive to see how effective and funny his petty, ignorant bullshit can get.

It was a good bit. You take the hit, smile it off, and move on.

"Well, actually, the reason I'm not owned is that you're old!" is a lame comeback. It's a good hit, take the L and go to the next game.

The mental gymnastics here is impressive. 

Trump made a joke. A reporter asked Pete directly about it and he responded. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

What's annoying, though, is when there's a kid on the driveway who cries and calls fouls after the guys on his team start the roughhousing.

what you’re describing is exactly how you’re acting. you’re right though, it is annoying. 

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