Buttigieg 2020

[bad_teammate 13,299]

lol ok

Love it when the Peteheads storm out with the "YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME, GOOD SIR" melodramatics when they can't really think of anything to say

 

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

"storm out", capital letters!, "melodramatics"

The vast majority of people on here don't even bother conversing with you for a reason. 

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

Me: here's why I think Pete is struggling with POC

You: Wrong, he's just a piece of shit garbage person 

 

Good stuff. 

 

[bad_teammate 13,299]

That's not a fair characterization of my analysis. I'll re-post it...

--------------------------
I think he struggles with POC voters because he's an awkward, inexperienced guy who talks like a manager everyone hates. He looks and sounds and has the pedigree of everyone who has ever walked into a staff room and announced with grave tones that they're all laid off. He has little/nothing to offer black voters or basically any voter who isn't wealthy.

Pete came to white liberals with, "I'm a gay troop who went to Harvard! Listen to me speak other languages!" and white liberals fell in love. Black voters don't care about those things. They've got actual, real concerns.

It is not blacks who need to warm up to Pete, it is whites who need to think about why they fell in love with an empty suit.

So there was nothing to sell to that voting block initially and his leadership in South Bend (both past and present) hasn't improved his appeal, let's say.
--------------------------

What in here do you disagree with or think is unfair?

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

I disagree with all of it except "It is not blacks who need to warm up to Pete". He needs to show he deserves their support. 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13,299]

Interesting.

So you disagree that white liberals fell in love with Pete because he's a gay troop who went to Harvard? You don't think his "watch me speak other languages" thing was catnip to NPR liberals? You just dismiss completely those powerful class/race/identity signifiers?

You don't think he comes across as awkward and inexperienced?

You don't think he talks like a middle manager (which is, as you know, his training)?

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Interesting.

So you disagree that white liberals fell in love with Pete because he's a gay troop who went to Harvard? Yes, I disagree. You don't think his "watch me speak other languages" thing was catnip to NPR liberals? Maybe originally, doesn't matter to anyone anymore. You just dismiss completely those powerful class/race/identity signifiers? Generally, yes.

You don't think he comes across as awkward and inexperienced? No, not at all. 

You don't think he talks like a middle manager (which is, as you know, his training)? No. 

See above. 

[bad_teammate 13,299]

Pete is 2nd/3rd in overall fundraising, yet he's a mayor from Indiana with zero national (or even statewide and honestly not an impressive list of local) accomplishments and no obvious political agenda that sets him apart. Dismissing the importance of Pete's identity signifiers is, frankly, delusional.

I have asked many times what the appeal is and the resounding answer is that his tone is good. What does it mean for someone's tone to be good? What does it entail? It is entirely bound up in race and class.

That tone you love and you think will unify and heal the nation is nothing but race and class signifying.

Historically, who is it that is told to calm down?

- Women
- People of color
- The uneducated
- The poor

What are the markers of someone who is being calm?

- A man
- A white person
- An educated person
- A person of means

A highly trained white man from elite institutions here to calm you down and help you relax so you can understand what's good for you.

[mchookem 16,517]

i think there's a number of not only democrats but probably more independents and yes even (former?) republicans who are quite literally EXHAUSTED by the chaos, the ugliness, the fighting, the screaming words, the twitterverse, bizarro world of lies, banging of heads against walls, sheer lunacy that has been going on for 3 years now. i know i am. 

Pete does seem safe, calm, reasoned, like the polar opposite of all that. so do some others, but he's climbed the ranks the highest as of now*. i understand the attractiveness. some people, maybe most people, just want the world to calm the fuck down. 

(*i'm not including Biden bc obvious reasons, though he seems to have a similar appeal.)

i do chuckle at how offended some get...Pete 'attacking!' so-n-so, 'picking a fight', etc...i mean,  come on, lol. he's barely said 'boo' honestly. compared to what's coming?? we progressives are definitely a sensitive bunch.

Edited October 18, 2019 by mchookem

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Pete’s strategy of stirring shit up is getting him waaaay too much unearned oxygen, so it’s probably going well for him.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

12 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i think there's a number of not only democrats but probably more independents and yes even (former?) republicans who are quite literally EXHAUSTED by the chaos, the ugliness, the fighting, the screaming words, the twitterverse, bizarro world of lies, banging of heads against walls, sheer lunacy that has been going on for 3 years now. i know i am. 

Pete does seem safe, calm, reasoned, like the polar opposite of all that. so do some others, but he's climbed the ranks the highest as of now*. i understand the attractiveness. some people, maybe most people, just want the world to calm the fuck down. 

I get it too.   But being satisfied by just calming down the incivility is a privilege many Americans don't have.   And it's probably the biggest reason Pete can't attract any POC support.   He's trying to return us to a normalcy that wasn't working for many of them or for working people of any race.   His vision is an idealized version of the corporate-owned bipartisanship that's been sold as a virtue for decades, but has left the working class in the dust and led to Trumpism. 

[bad_teammate 13,299]

36 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i think there's a number of not only democrats but probably more independents and yes even (former?) republicans who are quite literally EXHAUSTED by the chaos, the ugliness, the fighting, the screaming words, the twitterverse, bizarro world of lies, banging of heads against walls, sheer lunacy that has been going on for 3 years now. i know i am. 

Which of the Democratic candidates would you say engages in "chaos", "ugliness", "fighting", or "screaming"? Genuinely curious as to who on his own side Pete is the supposed antidote for.

It seems to me like every Democratic candidate is 200x calmer and more measured than Trump.

Quote

i do chuckle at how offended some get...Pete 'attacking!' so-n-so, 'picking a fight', etc...i mean,  come on, lol. he's barely said 'boo' honestly. compared to what's coming?? we progressives are definitely a sensitive bunch.

Maybe they're just tired of all the chaos, ugliness, fighting, and banging of heads against walls?

[tantric superman 4,668]

I thought Ben Carson had a calming, soporific demeanor, but since he's black, that can't be.

[mchookem 16,517]

18 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I get it too.   But being satisfied by just calming down the incivility is a privilege many Americans don't have.   And it's probably the biggest reason Pete can't attract any POC support.   He's trying to return us to a normalcy that wasn't working for many of them or for working people of any race.   His vision is an idealized version of the corporate-owned bipartisanship that's been sold as a virtue for decades, but has left the working class in the dust and led to Trumpism. 

yeah, and i totally get that, too, and that makes sense. although i'd say it's more than mere incivility...lunacy is a better descriptor. we have a literal lunatic in the oval office. 

i do think in the end one of the more polarizing candidates will win the primary, my money's on Warren and i'd be more than happy with that.

but i don't think Pete is even remotely trash, garbage, shitty, etc, and describing him as such is unnecessarily hyperbolic and simply adds to the noise that many of us are exhausted by at this point.

and yes, i realize that exhaustion is exactly the kind of 'privilege' we're talking about...but it doesn't make it any less intolerable.

[bad_teammate 13,299]

13 minutes ago, mchookem said:

but i don't think Pete is even remotely trash, garbage, shitty, etc, and describing him as such is unnecessarily hyperbolic and simply adds to the noise that many of us are exhausted by at this point.

Doesn't this make Pete "polarizing", by definition? The fact that he inspires that kind of rhetoric from people within the tent?

Perhaps he is actually more polarizing than candidates like Booker and Yang?

 

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

His favorability numbers in pretty much every poll are really strong.

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

56 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

He's trying to return us to a normalcy that wasn't working for many of them or for working people of any race.   His vision is an idealized version of the corporate-owned bipartisanship that's been sold as a virtue for decades, but has left the working class in the dust and led to Trumpism. 

I guess you haven’t listed to many of his interviews. He specifically states - constantly - that “we can’t return to normal”.

And his Douglass Plan for Black Americans  is solid.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I guess you haven’t listed to many of his interviews. He specifically states - constantly - that “we can’t return to normal”.

And his Douglass Plan for Black Americans  is solid.

Pete is a talented politician but without any serious experience in national politics, he’s an empty vessel for people to fill with whatever they want him to be.  He will be bold and inspiring one minute and then nitpick criticize his opponents for selling a pie in the sky.   He talks out both sides of his mouth without his fans noticing because he’s the Pete they want him to be. 

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pete is a talented politician but without any serious experience in national politics, he’s an empty vessel for people to fill with whatever they want him to be.  He will be bold and inspiring one minute and then nitpick criticize his opponents for selling a pie in the sky.   He talks out both sides of his mouth without his fans noticing because he’s the Pete they want him to be. 

Whatever makes you feel better, Hugo.

BTW, that reads like a Twitter bot reply. Good impersonation. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

I’m not dunking on him. Obama won the presidency by being an inspiring empty vessel. It can win.

[henrygandorf 29,199]

i love the characterization that in a group that includes click-bait twitter journalists, other candidates, and pete, that pete is the one who's "nitpicking".

pete's fans like pete.

unattached people like pete.

people who have their own candidate picked out fucking hate pete and think he's a lying snake and grifter but don't think about him that much because he's polling under 5% and he'll never amount to anything in his own state.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

3 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I guess you haven’t listed to many of his interviews. He specifically states - constantly - that “we can’t return to normal”.

And his Douglass Plan for Black Americans  is solid.

 

I know what he says, but that's not what I hear him actually proposing to do.  His message is the standard bipartisan, common-sense solution thing.  I mean, look at this ad:

That's a return to normalcy message:  let's end the partisan bickering, go back to the good ol' days when the extremes didn't dominate the conversation, and we can all come together to do the things we can all agree on as Americans.

The problem is that it's idealized bullshit (in my opinion, of course).  Partisan warfare is how shit has always gotten done in our adversarial system.   The Dems' greatest modern achievements, like New Deal and Civil Rights Act, came through vicious political battles that were forced on the other side through sheer political power. 

And the extremes don't dominate right now.   Only one extreme dominates —the far right — while the Dems has been a feeble centrist party since Clinton took office.   It is only relative to that modern rightward shift that Warren's policies could be viewed as extreme.   Pete even recognized as much early in his run before he settled on the Biden/Harris lane.

I don't see any real difference between what Pete is saying and what Obama promised in 2008, aside from Pete wanted some structural reforms like eliminating the filibuster.   Maybe that would be enough to have more success, but I'm skeptical about getting 50 Senate Dems.  Either way, I see the lesson of the last decade as being that we have to fight from the left as hard as McConnell has been fighting from the right.  Which is why Warren really resonates with me. 

[bad_teammate 13,299]

15 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

And his Douglass Plan for Black Americans  is solid.

Is it solid compared to Trump's plans for blacks in America? Yep. It's amazingly good compared to Donnie.

Is it solid compared to his primary competition? Not really.

There's a lot of good stuff there that is standard, Democratic boiler plate good stuff (no mandatory minimums, no federal private prisons, etc...)

But when it comes to where he differs from his competition, it's usually for the worse...

- Pete is pro-charter schools, which destroy local public school systems in poor (which, in America, often means black) areas.

- Pete is anti-student debt forgiveness, which impacts blacks in American exponentially more than whites in America.

- Pete is against giving voting rights to incarcerated blacks in a nation where blacks are locked up at alarming rates.

- He's got some good plans in Douglass for police reform, but my trust level with him on that is somewhere around 0%.

- The "Walker-Lewis Entrepreneurship Fund" & (especially) "Walker-Lews Debt-for-Jobs"  programs make me want to set his campaign office on fire. The neoliberal hell that is the worship of thinking what we need to do is just encourage more business-minded activity among the lazy and feckless populations while howling at the moon about the evils of taxation and redistribution. Fuck off. Fuck off. Fuck off fuck off guillotines guillotines

- Community Homestead Act is Top 3 Good in the current field

- His health and insurance plans are weaker than Joe Biden's in every regard, including for black Americans

- Nothing about how to fund any of it and a larger campaign message that wavers between "oh maybe we should start to think about considering raising those taxes" and "ADMIT YOU WANT TO RAISE TAXES AND TAKE AWAY CHOICE YOU COMMUNIST"

I know he named his plan after Frederick Douglass despite having about 3 black supporters that he doesn't pay, but naming a thing after a historical figure doesn't make the content of the plan historical.

[bad_teammate 13,299]

The "I don't really care about the plans or ideas, I'm not interested in the details, I just know how he makes me feel and I feel like I trust him and he gets me" is MAGA shit.

Cult. 

[Post Oak 20,327]

 

 

https://politics.theonion.com/pete-buttigieg-tries-appealing-to-moderate-boomers-by-a-1839166979

 

[bad_teammate 13,299]

Pete needs to stop hanging out with the rich.

Obama's warning.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Pete is on the GOP radar.  Good sign for Pete

 

[Biff Tannen 45,763]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pete is on the GOP radar.  Good sign for Pete

 

Environmental responsibility.  The horror.

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

 

[Guest Lobo]

Let the poor guy raise money however he can.  He needs to buy the matching jacket to those pants.  He's a half suit away from being Presidential.  

I kid, I dig the tie look with rolled up shirt sleeves.  

[troph 24,925]

This seems whorish.... or high school student council-ish...

 

 

[Fozzz 152]

Hamilton with Chasten Buttigieg?  By golly that sounds like a jolly good time.  

[HenryJames 66,277]

 

[bad_teammate 13,299]

45 minutes ago, troph said:

This seems whorish.... or high school student council-ish...

 

 

We often note that Trump is often just a parody of himself. I think Pete has outdone Donald with this one.

Wow

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

29 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

"Advising Buttigieg on Campaign Hires" 

 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

What more evidence do you need that Pete is the Mark Zuckerberg choice among the democrats?  

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What more evidence do you need that Pete is the Mark Zuckerberg choice among the democrats?  

Guess you didn't read any of it? 

But definitely all the evidence detractors need to troll every Pete Twitter thread with Zuckerberg stuff.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Warren goes hard at Zuckerberg then Pete goes after Warren.  Bros before hoes. 

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Warren goes hard at Zuckerberg then Pete goes after Warren.  Bros before hoes. 

At least you're catching on that Warren surrogates probably pushed this hit piece. Good old fashioned dirty politics. 

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Pete’s chummy relationship with Zuckerberg is gross.  It always has been. 

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pete’s chummy relationship with Zuckerberg is gross.  It always has been. 

They weren't friends at Harvard. When Zuckerberg decided to travel all 50 states 2-3 years ago, a mutual friend put them in touch and Mark visited South Bend. 

There's no real relationship there. But you knew that already. 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

“Totally not friends!”

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

- overlapped at Harvard 

- had mutual friends

- was obviously one of the first users of FB, since you know, PETE WENT TO HARVARD.

 

Conclusion: Not really friends at Harvard. 

 

That photo is when Zuckerberg traveled to South Bend on his 50 states stunt. 

 

 

 

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

For anyone that thinks Pete is part of the "establishment', remember these silly hit pieces. Warren surrogates in the media ARE the establishment, and they are peddling bullshit at an alarming pace. 

That said, keep on bringing it. I actually want candidates to be tested, vetted, and see if they can withstand the onslaught. Even if it's disingenuous bullshit. 

 

 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

There is an easy way Pete could dispel this Zuckerberg scrutiny.  

Like publicly call out Mark Zuckerberg for Facebook’s unethical and harmful business practices regarding disinformation and user privacy. 

I hope he does. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Warren surrogates in the media

Who is a Warren surrogate in the media?  

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Who is a Warren surrogate in the media?  

Off the top of my head

Sahil Kapur

Mehdi Hasan 

Tommy Vietor

Jeet Heer

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Off the top of my head

Sahil Kapur

Mehdi Hasan 

Tommy Vietor

Jeet Heer

 

I wish they were Warren surrogates. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21,273]

I've been waffling between Warren and Pete for a while now but if Zuckerberg has anything to do w/ the Buttigieg campaign, I'm all in on Warren.

[Hank Kingsley 21,083]

4 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I've been waffling between Warren and Pete for a while now but if Zuckerberg has anything to do w/ the Buttigieg campaign, I'm all in on Warren.

Aaaand this is how silly hit pieces work, unfortunately.