Buttigieg 2020

[Brisketexan 104464]

Conservatives like Brisket and leftists like me are fighting to pull the Democratic party to move our direction.

Well, the lurch to the extreme seems to be working out BRILLIANTLY for the GOP, so I certainly understand why the Dems would want to follow that blueprint.

[bad_teammate 13125]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, the lurch to the extreme seems to be working out BRILLIANTLY for the GOP, so I certainly understand why the Dems would want to follow that blueprint.

Going to Trump doesn't represent going to an ideological extreme. Trumpism has no ideology aside from allegiance to Trump as an individual.

If you wanted to compare Bernie to the Tea Party then you might make some kind of vague sense because the Tea Party represents an ideological lens on American politics just as Bernie represents a Democratic Socialist lens on American politics. But I question whether or not you're even aware enough of ideology to even notice that.

Of course, in a practical sense the Tea Party thing doesn't work at all, because Bernie is an extremely reliable voting partner for Democrats and doesn't make any waves at all in the Senate as far as obstructionism. And, as mentioned, he works his ass off to promote Democrats who don't even really share his values.

And his voter base is extremely diverse and very young.

But, you know... he doesn't share your center-right politics so he's a crazy extremist.

[Brisketexan 104464]

Going to Trump doesn't represent going to an ideological extreme. Trumpism has no ideology aside from allegiance to Trump as an individual.
If you wanted to compare Bernie to the Tea Party then you might make some kind of vague sense because the Tea Party represents an ideological lens on American politics just as Bernie represents a Democratic Socialist lens on American politics. But I question whether or not you're even aware enough of ideology to even notice that.
Of course, in a practical sense the Tea Party thing doesn't work at all, because Bernie is an extremely reliable voting partner for Democrats and doesn't make any waves at all in the Senate as far as obstructionism. And, as mentioned, he works his ass off to promote Democrats who don't even really share his values.
And his voter base is extremely diverse and very young.
But, you know... he doesn't share your center-right politics so he's a crazy extremist.

I don’t think that Bernie is a crazy extremist.
I think that a good chunk of his supporters are. You’ll see that I haven’t equated Trump and Bernie. I’ve noted the similarity between their purity-test followers.
And your tea party point is sound. But incomplete. Trumpism is the end-point for the path the tea party ran down. It’s all politics of rage.
I like rage. I’m a devoted practitioner. Yet I’m also rational enough to see that it doesn’t make for good politics or healthy results.
I don’t care if you’re a Trumpist who wants me to burn in Hell because I’m Hispanic, or a Bernie bro who wants me to burn in Hell because I’m upper income. To me, you’re both just people who want me to burn in Hell. I don’t care for either one of you, ultimately for the same reasons.

[Dropout 355]

Bern in hell come on. Relax guy. You’re the top 1% of the nation? Even if you were no one wants you to bern in hell. No one is trying to throw you out of the country. Bernie isn’t calling you out of your name. Pay taxes isn’t bern in hell wtf.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Dropout

[bad_teammate 13125]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I’ve noted the similarity between their purity-test followers.

What are the purity tests you're talking about? Trumpism's purity test is one question: "Are you Donald Trump?"

The Bernie Bro purity tests, meanwhile, involve a hell of a lot more:

- Numerous policy positions
- Evidence of walking the walk
- Authentic credibility establishing the above two 

Quote

I don’t care if you’re a Trumpist who wants me to burn in Hell because I’m Hispanic, or a Bernie bro who wants me to burn in Hell because I’m upper income. To me, you’re both just people who want me to burn in Hell. I don’t care for either one of you, ultimately for the same reasons.

We don't give a shit if you burn in hell, Ms. McCain, you're just going to have to run the jewels.

Meanwhile, Trump's fans are murdering people like Bernie by the dozens. Or a MAGA guy murdering a Bernie voter with a car in Charlottesville who was marching with the IWW.

But hey continue with the attempt to create a bullshit equivalence it's going really well for you and you're great at it. As I said before, isn't there a Howard Schultz thread you can fuck off to?

5 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Pay taxes isn’t bern in hell wtf.

To the temporarily-not-Republicans, taxes are violence.

Edited March 31, 2019 by bad_teammate

[Anastasis 23375]

7 minutes ago, Dropout said:

You’re the top 1% of the nation?

Bern's stated policies will increase taxes on everybody.  Some more heavily targeted than others. The middle class will feel it for sure. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Anastasis

[bad_teammate 13125]

*Bernie Bros, which are young and diverse, are forceful online in support of political ideology*

*MAGA chuds murder people by the dozen*

Giant Center Brain: "These things are indistinguishable."

[Dropout 355]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Bern's stated policies will increase taxes on everybody.  Some more heavily targeted than others. The middle class will feel it for sure. 

I know this. Simply trying to get to his point. If he was a Walton or Bezos I could perhaps understand the fear he seems to have in regards Bernie’s rhetoric.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Dropout
But not really tho

[Anastasis 23375]

Just now, Dropout said:

I know this. Simply trying to get to his point. If he was a Walton or Bezos I could perhaps understand the fear he seems to have in regards Bernie’s rhetoric.

The checks that Bernie's rhetoric writes, can't be cashed on the backs of the 1%. 

I like Bernie. I prefer politicians who are actually all in. But be real. Don't evoke the 1% as a distraction. 

[Brisketexan 104464]

*Bernie Bros, which are young and diverse, are forceful online in support of political ideology*
*MAGA chuds murder people by the dozen*
Giant Center Brain: "These things are indistinguishable."

Oh, do go on. Trumpists, who are mostly old and white, are forceful online in support of political ideology.

Hmmm....seems familiar.

As for “These things are indistinguishable,” huh. I thought the Super-integrity Bernie Bro trait was unassailable facts and logic (man....sounds like Ben Shapiro, don’t it?). So, to see such a predictable and unimaginative straw man logical fallacy - and it’s far from your only one in the past several posts....well, the similarities are becoming uncanny.

[Dropout 355]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The checks that Bernie's rhetoric writes, can't be cashed on the backs of the 1%. 

I like Bernie. I prefer politicians who are actually all in. But be real. Don't evoke the 1% as a distraction. 

So you think you’re going to bern in hell too? And I’m evoking distractions? We obviously all know here more than the 1% will be taxed. It’ll be ok. You will still have nice things.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Dropout

[bad_teammate 13125]

Quote

Oh, do go on. Trumpists, who are mostly old and white, are forceful online in support of political ideology.

Hmmm....seems familiar.

Familiar to whom? Bernie's voting coalition, both in the 2016 primaries and in the 2020 polls so far, is younger and more diverse than his competition. It's not even close.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

Now fuck off back to the ledge to whine about both sides with your fellow conservatives. You're out of your element, Donny.

[Anastasis 23375]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Now fuck off back to the ledge to whine about both sides with your fellow conservatives.

[Brisketexan 104464]

Oh, do go on. Trumpists, who are mostly old and white, are forceful online in support of political ideology.

Hmmm....seems familiar.

Familiar to whom? Bernie's voting coalition, both in the 2016 primaries and in the 2020 polls so far, is younger and more diverse than his competition. It's not even close.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
Now fuck off back to the ledge to whine about both sides with your fellow conservatives. You're out of your element, Donny.

Why would I stop, when with every reply, you help make my point? This is the easiest time I’ve had on Surly since I got people to agree that Hayley Atwell is smoke.

[Dropout 355]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Familiar to whom? Bernie's voting coalition, both in the 2016 primaries and in the 2020 polls so far, is younger and more diverse than his competition. It's not even close.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
Now fuck off back to the ledge to whine about both sides with your fellow conservatives. You're out of your element, Donny.

Why would I stop, when with every reply, you help make my point? This is the easiest time I’ve had on Surly since I got people to agree that Hayley Atwell is smoke.

And my reply’s do what? Whose point do I make? 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Dropout

[bad_teammate 13125]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Why would I stop, when with every reply, you help make my point? This is the easiest time I’ve had on Surly since I got people to agree that Hayley Atwell is smoke.

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

2 minutes ago, Dropout said:

And my reply’s do what? Who’s point do I make? 

*as my teeth fly through the air like dandelion seeds*

"Actually, good sir, you're proving my point most efficaciously."

[Brisketexan 104464]

*as my teeth fly through the air like dandelion seeds*
"Actually, good sir, you're proving my point most efficaciously."

Yes.
I’d say by now everyone is convinced that Bernie Bros are absolutely NOT all about foaming-at-the-mouth purity tests.
Well-done.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

30 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Bern's stated policies will increase taxes on everybody.  Some more heavily targeted than others. The middle class will feel it for sure. 

Universal health care, lower prescription drug prices, affordable education, cleaner environment, renewable energy, consumer protections from corporate malfeasance, equal rights for women and minorities...

Feels good. 

[NWBuck 8543]

If only there were a thread about Mr. Sanders where this could all could be discussed and discovered. 

[Dropout 355]

1 minute ago, NWBuck said:

If only there were a thread about Mr. Sanders where this could all could be discussed and discovered. 

I tried. Only one time tho but I thought about twice. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Dropout
The end

[Brisketexan 104464]

If only there were a thread about Mr. Sanders where this could all could be discussed and discovered. 

All threads are about Bernie. Because all candidates are inferior, evil pieces of shit, who must be eliminated to pave the way for the Bern. #itshisturn.

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

*Bernie Bros, which are young and diverse, are forceful online in support of political ideology*

*MAGA chuds murder people by the dozen*

Giant Center Brain: "These things are indistinguishable."

I don’t know.  I’ve said many times you’re very clearly the lesser of two evils.  Doesn’t meant there’s not some real fucked up shit on the far left too.  

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Universal health care, lower prescription drug prices, affordable education, cleaner environment, renewable energy, consumer protections from corporate malfeasance, equal rights for women and minorities...

Feels good. 

You forgot unicorns, bro.  

[BradInATX 9208]

8 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

You forgot unicorns, bro.  

Fuck off, basically Donald Trump

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Fuck off, basically Donald Trump

Lol.  What?   I’m DJT?  

Well shit, fuck me...

[TDunk 590]

38 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Lol.  What?   I’m DJT?  

Well shit, fuck me...

Oh Hai...

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

35 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

You forgot unicorns, bro.  

Perfection is a road, not a destination. Voodoo economics is a swindle and a road in the wrong direction. The key to a strong economy is a healthy and expanding middle class. I'd rather see higher wages for the middle class than lower taxes on the middle class (coupled with a more progressive tax policy on the rich). The take home pay could be the same for the working man but the benefits would be greater. 

And the rich would get richer. That's the thing that no one seems to grasp. Call it market maintenance. You can make more by shearing the sheep than you can by skinning them. You can only skin them once. Keep your flock healthy. Maybe you won't profit as much this quarter but you'll be better off in the long run. 

I think that's a sound conservative principe. 

[henrygandorf 29174]

seriously guys, there are at least 2-3 existing threads to take this conversation. 

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

7 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Perfection is a road, not a destination. Voodoo economics is a swindle and a road in the wrong direction. The key to a strong economy is a healthy and expanding middle class. I'd rather see higher wages for the middle class than lower taxes on the middle class (coupled with a more progressive tax policy on the rich). The take home pay could be the same for the working man but the benefits would be greater. 

And the rich would get richer. That's the thing that no one seems to grasp. Call it market maintenance. You can make more by shearing the sheep than you can by skinning them. You can only skin them once. Keep your flock healthy. Maybe you won't profit as much this quarter but you'll be better off in the long run. 

I think that's a sound conservative principe. 

I have no trouble wanting all of that.  I’m just looking at where we are now...locking up kids, still jailing minorities for Pot, etc and just find even mentioning all that to be asinine.  

But of course we all want that grocery list to hit.  

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

7 hours ago, TDunk said:

Oh Hai...

That’s my man!  Da Mayor is my top choice by far.  But, I’ll vote for Bernie over Orange God.  

[retread 2951]

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

8 hours ago, TDunk said:

Oh Hai...

PETE!

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

Maybe this will blow over, maybe it will really hurt him. But I'm very happy to see the triggered Hillary cult out themselves. The Democratic Party needs to have this infighting right now. These people truly are the worst part of the left and will help get Trump re-elected unless they grow up. 

 

People going crazy over a pull quote from 2 months ago. Pete's response. 

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

Pete is very smart.

He was hitting Hillary originally, but in this backtrack made it about "our" mistake. So he's not walking back the underlying critique of the "America is already great" strategy, but instead making it about Democrats as a whole. It's not true, of course, but it's politically expedient.

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

He really wasn't hitting Hillary originally, even though I wouldn't mind it if he did. He has always phrased it as "we" made mistakes, meaning the party and the campaign. 

The fact that Hillary people are so angry about his comments proves they didn't learn anything from 2016. That's pretty disturbing. 

 

 

 

 

[InkaUtexas 25424]

What they learned is they lost. What we all learned about them is they are blind to her faults. Dems split early they can repair it. If they split later it will be a mess. I think that is what Bernie is counting on and Pete is trying to prevent. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

He really wasn't hitting Hillary originally, even though I wouldn't mind it if he did. He has always phrased it as "we" made mistakes, meaning the party and the campaign. 

The fact that Hillary people are so angry about his comments proves they didn't learn anything from 2016. That's pretty disturbing. 

That’s your opinion.  Politically, Pete is foolish to go after Hillary even if just implicitly.  

Trump won mostly because the people that voted for him were okay with racism.  The people that weren’t, didn’t.  That’s a big elephant in the room we choose to ignore but there’s a lot of truth to it.

[GSU&UT 1798]

11 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

He really wasn't hitting Hillary originally, even though I wouldn't mind it if he did. He has always phrased it as "we" made mistakes, meaning the party and the campaign. 

The fact that Hillary people are so angry about his comments proves they didn't learn anything from 2016. That's pretty disturbing. 

 

 

 

 

Yep, bitch about Bernie bros all you want but there are HRC supporters who have actually said they won't vote for him if he wins the nomination.

[bad_teammate 13125]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

He really wasn't hitting Hillary originally, even though I wouldn't mind it if he did. He has always phrased it as "we" made mistakes, meaning the party and the campaign. 

The fact that Hillary people are so angry about his comments proves they didn't learn anything from 2016. That's pretty disturbing. 

I think he was.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The center of gravity of the American people is way to the left of the center of gravity of Congress and, in many ways, to the left of the national Democratic Party," Buttigieg had told me earlier in the year. That's especially true of millennials. Their political outlook is shaped by being the first post-World War II generation to face diminished economic prospects, and also the first to fully experience the diminished quality of life wrought by decades of tax-slashing, privatization and deregulation: inefficient social services, unaffordable child care, crummy roads and trains and public transportation, slow Internet speeds, and a rapidly warming Earth. Buttigieg's peers are eager to embrace a politics that's bigger and more ambitious - more New Deal than New Democrat. They want swing-for-the-fences solutions from politicians who don't pretend that all the country needs is just some minor tweaks.

"Donald Trump got elected because, in his twisted way, he pointed out the huge troubles in our economy and our democracy," Buttigieg says. "At least he didn't go around saying that America was already great, like Hillary did."

The mistake Democrats risk making in 2020, he says, is looking in the rearview mirror for solutions. "I get the urge people will have after Trump. 'Look at the chaos and the exhaustion: Wouldn't it be better to go back to something more stable with somebody we know?' But there's no going back to a pre-Trump universe. We can't be saying the system will be fine again just like it was. Because that's not true; it wasn't fine. Not if we could careen into this kind of politics."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It doesn't really matter, though, because you're right. He understands far better what happened and what is needed than Hillary and her still-loyal fans.

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

What they learned is they lost. What we all learned about them is they are blind to her faults. Dems split early they can repair it. If they split later it will be a mess. I think that is what Bernie is counting on and Pete is trying to prevent. 

If Democrats started uniting around Bernie right now he'd say, "No! No! Stop supporting me! I don't actually want my ideas to become law I am just an evil Jew who wants chaos and I thought 50+ years of consistent democratic social justice activism was the best way to do that! NOOOOOOOOOOOO! CURSE YOU GI JOE!!!!!!!!!"

The Dems are literally going to be bringing Happy Merchant memes on placards to the DNC in Wisconsin if Bernie is a delegate threat.

What a time to be alive.

[Brisketexan 104464]

He really wasn't hitting Hillary originally, even though I wouldn't mind it if he did. He has always phrased it as "we" made mistakes, meaning the party and the campaign. 
The fact that Hillary people are so angry about his comments proves they didn't learn anything from 2016. That's pretty disturbing. 
 
 
 
 

Yep. Double down on “it’s her turn,” and “how dare you criticize a strategy....that managed to lose to DONALD FUCKING TRUMP.” Brilliant.

Yep, bitch about Bernie bros all you want but there are HRC supporters who have actually said they won't vote for him if he wins the nomination.

The Dems have a problem with more than one constituency. A slim majority of unified idiots (Trumpists) is going to beat a divided majority of principled, uncompromising fools who are GREAT at “principles” but TERRIBLE at winning the elections that allow them to put said principles into practice.

[GSU&UT 1798]

I'd just like to note that Leah McElrath is by far one of the most annoying reactionaries on twitter. She is the quintessential white woman who tries so hard to be woke and pats herself on the back after every tweet.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

3 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Yep, bitch about Bernie bros all you want but there are HRC supporters who have actually said they won't vote for him if he wins the nomination.

Did they say they'd vote for Trump instead?

I've heard that there were disgruntled Bernie supporters who voted for Trump. Imagine switching your support from the farthest left candidate since FDR to the farthest right candidate in our nation's history. Those people have no values. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Did they say they'd vote for Trump instead?

I've heard that there were disgruntled Bernie supporters who voted for Trump. Imagine switching your support from the farthest left candidate since FDR to the farthest right candidate in our nation's history. Those people have no values. 

I don't know, just going off all the reactionary bullshit over what seems to be an innocuous comment. I'm just sick of all the re-hashing of 2016 but from a different side this time. Nothing wrong with criticizing candidates before the primaries start, but "THAT'S IT #CANCELLED" is some awful attention-seeking behavior.

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

18 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That’s your opinion.  Politically, Pete is foolish to go after Hillary even if just implicitly.  

Trump won mostly because the people that voted for him were okay with racism.  The people that weren’t, didn’t.  That’s a big elephant in the room we choose to ignore but there’s a lot of truth to it.

It might be foolish, but it’s absolutely necessary. 

Your 2nd paragraph is ridiculous. 

[bad_teammate 13125]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

Nothing wrong with criticizing candidates before the primaries start, but "THAT'S IT #CANCELLED" is some awful attention-seeking behavior.

Creepy Joe is #CANCELLED in my mind, honestly. I'd probably vote for him anyway, I guess, and I'd rather drink bleach than vote Trump. I might just leave the top line blank, but I've never done that and I'm too old to start doing new things.

We just don't need a president who has spent his entire life getting handsy with women he has power over. We really don't need two straight sex pests in the White House.

Give me Pete, please. If I could take a suspiciously-clean-and-polished nerdlinger right now to ensure that we don't have a sex creep for 4-8 more years I'd slam the Accept button in a heartbeat.

[NWBuck 8543]

Wait a second... 

Good looking young mayor of an Indiana city.... 

Has anyone asked him about Ice Town? 

[GSU&UT 1798]

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Creepy Joe is #CANCELLED in my mind, honestly. I'd probably vote for him anyway, I guess, and I'd rather drink bleach than vote Trump. I might just leave the top line blank, but I've never done that and I'm too old to start doing new things.

We just don't need a president who has spent his entire life getting handsy with women he has power over. We really don't need two straight sex pests in the White House.

Give me Pete, please. If I could take a suspiciously-clean-and-polished nerdlinger right now to ensure that we don't have a sex creep for 4-8 more years I'd slam the Accept button in a heartbeat.

I haven't brought up Joe because I agree with you and others that he's likely going to tank if he declares with all the actual legitimate criticism of him. It will suck if he ends up with the nomination.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

34 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

it’s absolutely necessary. 

Why?  Why push on that wound? Everyone has their own perception of what went wrong in 2016  and rather than blaming it on a person why not say Trump won because our democracy is weak?  That’s how all democracies die, their weaknesses get exploited.  

As a politician and in fact, there’s nothing to gain by bringing Hillary, Bernie, or really even Trump into that conversation.

The conversation needs to be about how we strengthen our democracy to better serve the people it governs and not nitpicking campaign strategies in the past. 

Pete’s comment was dumb but I’m not going to hold it against him, I’ll still support the guy. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

The fact that the Hillary sycophants are attacking mayor Pete just makes me like him more.

And those of y’all pushing the creepy joe meme realize you’re forwarding republican talking points right? Just like your aunts chain email and bulshit Facebook postings.  Stop being lemmings.