Buttigieg 2020

[bad_teammate 13125]

34 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

nope nope nope can't use the insane horse man to support any argument. I now like Mayor Pete. Fuck. 

We are going to convert the horse like we converted Comrade Daou. We will get Lis eventually, too.

Everyone with advanced posting brain disease cannot resist the call of the Bro forever.

[Hank Scorpio 17709]

You know your policies are good when people like Congressman Dan agree with you! 
 

 

Maybe the next time Pete is in Houston they can both do the dance! 
 

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I'd just leave the coming out out of the equation completely, because that's one of the few humanizing things about him. He's obviously a hyper-ambitious power-seeker who wildly overestimates his own intelligence, importance, and abilities (the Paul Ryan comparisons are apt here) which makes him alien and dangerous, but struggling with sexuality and the public performance of it is a normal human thing.

i'm glad you said something about this - somebody had to.  take the politics out of this, and it's a pretty nauseating take on a man's personal situation.

competitive victimhood aside, analyzing the timing of his decisions this way is pretty gross.  he said what he said at the debate.  as per usual (100% lately) it got spun in the worst possible way.  kamala didn't think it was appropriate, but didn't seem horrified by it (like twitter).  sharpton didn't see issue with it, and thinks it was misinterpreted.

i think what we're all seeing is a man still growing into who he will become.  all the other candidate (some more than others) are who they are, and have been for 10-15+ years in the public eye/political landscape.  he'll learn from his mistakes, as all super-human ai cyborgs do, eventually.

now, you can return to your circle of hatred.  enjoy your holiday.

[henrygandorf 29174]

On 11/29/2019 at 12:19 PM, bad_teammate said:

*inside high level policy meeting for my 2020 campaign*

"OK, here's the thing. Hillary was too progressive."

 

seems like the $125k cutoff was a pretty popular solution around 2016-2017 (although hillary's originally cut off at $85k). 

not a great time to be a bus driver/garbage man's kid.  or js1.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/college-for-all-act-introduced

[bad_teammate 13125]

Thank you for posting evidence of Bernie offering compromise legislation outside of a campaign and proving that he will be a practical leader once in office who will work with others to get as far as practically possible.

His 2015 campaign position was free tuition for everyone.

But you're right, he will work with others after not winning his goal because he's a mature, responsible leader who isn't just in it for his own vainglory.

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Thank you for posting evidence of Bernie offering compromise legislation outside of a campaign and proving that he will be a practical leader once in office who will work with others to get as far as practically possible.

happy to add some perspective to the outrage.  interesting that this shows the "practicality" of his in-office policies.  are you suggesting his campaign promises are impractical?

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

His 2015 campaign position was free tuition for everyone.

and his 2017 bill was very close to the hillary/pete one that everyone is having a fit over.  just figured everyone should have the full story (i don't expect most on this board to be as well-versed as you on these policies).

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

But you're right, he will work with others after not winning his goal

i've never said otherwise.  bernie knew the bill wasn't going anywhere, so it's a bit surprising that he was pushing this as a compromise bill to introduce everyone to his agenda.  since it's just an exercise to get folks on board, why not stick with what he campaigned on?  in your opinion, will the bros support this type of compromise on tuition (or healthcare, or voting rights, or whatever else) once bernie becomes president?  these attacks would suggest the answer is no.

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

because he's a mature, responsible leader who isn't just in it for his own vainglory.

bernie working with others = shows he's a mature, responsible leader who isn't just in it for his own vainglory.

pete saying he wants to work with others = this fucking guy.  this is the real world, not the west wing lol.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by henrygandorf

[bad_teammate 13125]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

happy to add some perspective to the outrage.  interesting that this shows the "practicality" of his in-office policies.  are you suggesting his campaign promises are impractical?

I wouldn't suggest that getting 100% of everything he wants isn't possible, I will come right out and say it because it's obvious.

There is no way Bernie will get 100% of everything he wants. Even with a massive political revolution, there will be roadblocks and things will fall through the cracks and coalitions will break.

Quote

and his 2017 bill was very close to the hillary/pete one that everyone is having a fit over.  just figured everyone should have the full story (i don't expect most on this board to be as well-versed as you on these policies).

Yes, it's great for context. What Bernie offers as a compromise is what Hillary and Pete see as the actual final goal. Bernie's practical fallback is center-left, Hillary/Pete's practical fallback is center-right.

I appreciate your additional evidence of this thing I've already been arguing.

Quote

i've never said otherwise.  bernie knew the bill wasn't going anywhere, so it's a bit surprising that he was pushing this as a compromise bill to introduce everyone to his agenda. 

The bill was put forth in 2017, so the idea that it was intended to "introduce everyone to his agenda" is laughable.

Quote

since it's just an exercise to get folks on board, why not stick with what he campaigned on?  in your opinion, will the bros support this type of compromise on tuition (or healthcare, or voting rights, or whatever else) once bernie becomes president?  these attacks would suggest the answer is no.

Yes, of course.

The idea that Bernie wouldn't sign a public option compromise is absurd. And the vast majority of Bernie's supporters will say, "Sign the compromise then keep yelling and hooting and hollering for single payer."

Quote

bernie working with others = shows he's a mature, responsible leader who isn't just in it for his own vainglory.

pete saying he wants to work with others = this fucking guy.  this is the real world, not the west wing lol.

Who is Pete working with on his healthcare plan?

[henrygandorf 29174]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, it's great for context. What Bernie offers as a compromise is what Hillary and Pete see as the actual final goal. Bernie's practical fallback is center-left, Hillary/Pete's practical fallback is center-right.

hillary offered up a plan starting at 85k and sliding to 125k.  pete is offering one at 100k.  neither is (or was) in congress after that (or became president) so you can't accurately predict a "practical fallback", especially for someone starting from a more moderate point on the spectrum.  if you start with a practical agenda and have the house and senate, then you have a better chance of passing it.  this isn't 2016-2018 anymore.  hard to stake your argument on hypothetical situations. 

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The bill was put forth in 2017, so the idea that it was intended to "introduce everyone to his agenda" is laughable.

happy to entertain you.  let me rephrase, "it's a bit surprising that he would use the compromised bill as a way to rally support behind his progressive policy."  i know, from you, that's how bernie does it - he goes to the people and gets them on board.  obviously you're correct, he's not "introducing" anything new about himself or his agenda in 2017.

15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, of course.

The idea that Bernie wouldn't sign a public option compromise is absurd. And the vast majority of Bernie's supporters will say, "Sign the compromise then keep yelling and hooting and hollering for single payer."

i don't doubt for a second that bernie will sign a compromised version of his bills if it means progress.  my doubt is with the bros.  you would certainly know better than i would.  i guess what i've seen and read so far is just bluster and tough internet talk.  not that surprising.

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Who is Pete working with on his healthcare plan?

i guess if he becomes president, we'll see if anyone will play with him in his sandbox.  for now, it's just me and hank in the policy shop.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Lol

[bad_teammate 13125]

8 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

if you start with a practical agenda and have the house and senate, then you have a better chance of passing it.  this isn't 2016-2018 anymore.  hard to stake your argument on hypothetical situations. 

I don't know what you think any of this means.

If you have the house and Senate, then you should go in as absolutely hard as you possibly can and only concede where you have to.

Quote

i guess if he becomes president, we'll see if anyone will play with him in his sandbox.  for now, it's just me and hank in the policy shop.

If Pete's not working with anyone now, why do you think his policy stances are "practical" in nature as opposed to idealistic?

[Satchel 6908]

Aren't all presidential candidates wantonly ambitious, calculating and cravenly political?

[bad_teammate 13125]

29 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Aren't all presidential candidates wantonly ambitious, calculating and cravenly political?

To varying extents, yeah.

You have people like Warren or Bernie who didn't think, "I should be president" until their 60s/70s. People like Biden who have wanted it since their 40s, and people like Pete who have never not wanted to become president.

Some people don't drink until their 30s and enjoy it occasionally at parties, some people are regular drinkers starting in their late teens, some people are knockout, die-young drunks.

Shades of gray.

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

To varying extents, yeah.

You have people like Warren or Bernie who didn't think, "I should be president" until their 60s/70s. People like Biden who have wanted it since their 40s, and people like Pete who have never not wanted to become president.

Some people don't drink until their 30s and enjoy it occasionally at parties, some people are regular drinkers starting in their late teens, some people are knockout, die-young drunks.

Shades of gray.

are you ok?

[LABEVO 928]

Pete is the definition of an empty suit. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

This is going over about as well as you’d expect.

[Hank Kingsley 20631]

24 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

This is going over about as well as you’d expect.

 

Did you listen to the clip or just read the heavily edited quote? 

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

He calls the idea that the city's schools were integrated an "illusion". Then he says that they are integrated. Which is it? Are South Bend schools integrated or not? (He's so obsessed with rhetoric as a political tool that meaning is less important than phrasing, vocabulary, and tone.)

He should've already known this about the county he literally grew up in. There are like 100k people in South Bend, so it's not like someone born and raised in Brooklyn not knowing what's going on upstate, it's like someone in Wichita Falls saying, "Well I'm just too wrapped up in this big city life to have ever even heard of Iowa City!"

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

I would give him a pass since I don't believe he has children and sometimes that clouds your vision, EXCEPT:

People who grow up in a town or city, especially one that is the size of South Bend know where the white flight is living and attending schools. People with children know it very very well if they are halfway cognizant of their local education choices. If for some reason the school zoning doesn't reinforce the class and racial boundaries that one desires, then one moves, attends private school, or enrolls in one of the new charter schools. I served on multiple school committees related to this and the hate emails from parents when one attempts to promote equal education opportunities are very real. When a school district has a school that reaches a certain percentage of low SES and minority students, it's like a beacon goes off and people get agitated about what to do. (It's always nice when you receive an email from a parent about how already moved once to get away from (insert racist word here)).

Buttigieg may have had a lot on his plate as mayor, but it isn't like he was in office for one term. You'd have to be tone-deaf and blind not to look around and see when all four of your high schools are >50% free and reduced lunch and many are over >50 minority to know that there is an invisible wall in education and he's on the other side. It takes less than five minutes to discover that, and only a little more time to ask people in your community. Many will dance around the topic, others not so much.

So, yes, after listening to the clip, it sounds like he didn't give a darn.

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

And most people don't really pay attention or care, so that's fine. Especially kids like Pete who were put through private education, that's an even thicker bubble.

I guess some people are impressed with the idea of watching a foal wobble his way to steady walking, but I'd rather not have someone constantly making obvious discoveries in the White House.

PETEHEADS DON'T CLICK THE SPOILER

Bernie was arrested at 22 after chaining himself to black women protesting school segregation in a city where he was going to college.

[Bama Chick 28596]

And South Bend has been under a court ordered reintegration consent decree since 1981 and they’re still out of compliance today.

And this -

Listening to the clip doesn’t help make his statement less tone deaf.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

A remarkable thing about Pete is his original displayed woke-ness did a good job of overshadowing his inexperience. “Yeah, he might not be qualified to be president of the United States but just listening to him speak makes me feel like this guy knows what he’s doing.” 

Michael Avenatti and Pete have a lot in common in this area.  

[elfenix 34163]

On 11/30/2019 at 11:39 AM, Patrick Bateman said:

From there it goes on showing the idiocy of trying to test, manage, and oversee this travesty of equitableness, but Pete's assessment, critique, and solution on the subject is really fucking silly.

my (somewhat less wordy) response to millionaire kids going to public college: millionaires are free to send their kids to public k-12, how many of them do you think do that, and why do you think college is any different?

[Hank Scorpio 17709]

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[406W30th 1111]

Putting aside the serious issues with means testing, I'm curious how the practicality of this $100K threshold would work – does it adjust every year for inflation? Is it based purely on taxable income? If Jeff Bezos had a kid, would they qualify for tuition-free college under Buttigieg's plan, as his salary was $81,840 in 2019?

 

[Rougarou 594]

New to the debate so a bit confused; are we saying it’s wrong that millionaires kids don’t qualify for free college but middle class folks do? That seems like a weird take. If we are committed to progressive revolution and we hate millionaires and like guillotine talk, why the pushback here? Millionaires can pay their own inflated tuition bill for Smitty to have Fajitas and ‘Rita’s before limping into grad school or a comfortable first job due to millionaire connections, right? 

[Biff Tannen 45468]

There's quite a gap between 100k and 1 million.

[Rougarou 594]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

There's quite a gap between 100k and 1 million.

Ah, I thought we were talking about millionaires children’s, not <$999k. I kept seeing the word millionaire In the tweets and posts.

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

There's quite a gap between 100k and 1 million.

I'm sure it would be graduated after 100k. It's obviously not going to be "if you make $99,999 you get a full free ride, but if you make $100,000 you pay for the whole thing".

Edited December 3, 2019 by BradInATX

[bad_teammate 13125]

1 hour ago, 406W30th said:

If Jeff Bezos had a kid, would they qualify for tuition-free college under Buttigieg's plan, as his salary was $81,840 in 2019?

Two schoolteachers who make a combined $115k will get a tuition bill and Bezos won't lol

Liberals suck so much.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Means testing ANY social program opens up the ability for opponents to manipulate the program and impose undue red tape and expenses.

And starting from the middle is a terrible negotiation tactic. You’re never going to win over Republicans no matter how moderate you begin. It’s weak and self defeating.

Quit starting every drive with an onside kick - you might get lucky 10% of the time; you’re just handing away half the field the other 90%.

[Fozzz 152]

It's not a negotiating tactic though.  

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

Quit starting every drive with an onside kick - you might get lucky 10% of the time; you’re just handing away half the field the other 90%.

god quit footballing up my cloak room.

[elfenix 34163]

2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Quit starting every drive with an onside kick - you might get lucky 10% of the time; you’re just handing away half the field the other 90%.

i agree with your point but your analogy is wrong. 

[Hank Scorpio 17709]

We gotta get the ball over the hoop line if we’re ever going to be able to steal home without getting called for icing. Touchdown. 

[bad_teammate 13125]

He's garbage, folks.

 

[406W30th 1111]

M4AWWIAAAC

(Medicare For All Who Want It And Are Also Citizens)

 

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

Illegals with money are worthy humans. Poor illegals are not. Pete 2020

[bonnieblue 542]

He's the Ted Cruz of Joe Bidens

[wildcat09 29179]

On 11/30/2019 at 11:31 AM, Js1 said:

So comforting That the college educated white man has found the voice to speak for them. 

The absolute excuse-making or subsequent mansplaining for 99% of what Pete says/does in order to anoint this 37 year old mayor the savior of the country is truly astounding. 

He’s nobody running a blah campaign. At least Trump riled up people with promises and outlandish statements. Pete is the opposite - promise nothing (and Ivy League explain how his opponents’ ideas aren’t realistic) and then say little. Project your hope and dreams onto him! 

This shit. Pete was kind of cool when he was talking about recognizing that old politics aren't working any more and that we need to recognize that, requiring younger perspectives and new tactics, etc. It was pretty out there when he originally proposed packing the court. That was good. But there's basically no reason to affirmatively support him now that he's heel-turned into younger Biden but lacks Biden's appeal to black communities. 

[wildcat09 29179]

47 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

We gotta get the ball over the hoop line if we’re ever going to be able to steal home without getting called for icing. Touchdown. 

You idiot, it's called a basketball ring.

[Fozzz 152]

43 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

He's garbage, folks.

 

Smart. Sober. Pete.  

[406W30th 1111]

18 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This shit. Pete was kind of cool when he was talking about recognizing that old politics aren't working any more and that we need to recognize that, requiring younger perspectives and new tactics, etc. It was pretty out there when he originally proposed packing the court. That was good. But there's basically no reason to affirmatively support him now that he's heel-turned into younger Biden but lacks Biden's appeal to black communities. 

Nailed it. I gave money to his campaign very shortly after he announced. Now I absolutely loathe the guy.

[Fozzz 152]

2 minutes ago, 406W30th said:

Nailed it. I gave money to his campaign very shortly after he announced. Now I absolutely loathe the guy.

lol.

[bonnieblue 542]

1 minute ago, 406W30th said:

Nailed it. I gave money to his campaign very shortly after he announced. Now I absolutely loathe the guy.

This (to both).  He doesn't need to be the most progressive to ever progressive or anything, but there is nothing particularly novel about his views or approaches. Hell, Yang (and I can't stand him) appears to bring more to the table than he does. Pete is an inexperienced, but smart guy with pretty rhetoric and standard dem party views, nothing more.

[Zonahorn 8079]

On 11/30/2019 at 12:32 PM, Hank Scorpio said:

nope nope nope can't use the insane horse man to support any argument. I now like Mayor Pete. Fuck. 

That's the kind of petty I can get behind

[bad_teammate 13125]

1 hour ago, bonnieblue said:

This (to both).  He doesn't need to be the most progressive to ever progressive or anything, but there is nothing particularly novel about his views or approaches. Hell, Yang (and I can't stand him) appears to bring more to the table than he does. Pete is an inexperienced, but smart guy with pretty rhetoric and standard dem party views, nothing more.

Pete and Kamala are/were two major candidates who were almost entirely free of notable substance. They are/were replacement level Democrats.

Candidates of substance (agree or disagree with the merits of that substance):
- Warren
- Sanders
- Yang
- Gabbard
- Williamson (is she still running?)
- Booker

[bad_teammate 13125]

Not everyone goes to college, it's true.

I don't know what probative or explanatory value that has. All Pete's saying here is, "The system that was designed by the rich benefits the rich, why change that?"

[bad_teammate 13125]

McKinsey is fucking evil.

[henrygandorf 29174]

49 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Not everyone goes to college, it's true.

I don't know what probative or explanatory value that has. All Pete's saying here is, "The system that was designed by the rich benefits the rich, why change that?"

he has other policy plans designed around "it being ok to choose to not go to college".  he's often spoke of promoting rights of gig workers, how healthcare ties in and should be able to follow you from job to job, how career paths have evolved over the past couple decades.  you can hate his plans, but they overlap with each other.  he didn't just throw darts at a board.

he's obviously speaking from a personal place, and speaking about people in south bend.  he isn't going hard in the paint on free college, and that's probably part of the reason why.