Buttigieg 2020

[bad_teammate 13499]

Pete worked for an evil consultancy group to calculate the appropriate amount of suffering to put on workers and people in need of health insurance for the purpose of maximizing revenue for a "non-profit" whose CEO made $19M last year.

And to distract from that, the smarmy fuck takes shots at a plan designed to cover literally every American with comprehensive healthcare at no usage cost to them.

I can see why the temporarily-not-Republicans love him.

[bad_teammate 13499]

nm

Edited December 11, 2019 by bad_teammate

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2692]

I don't give too many shits about which D defeats Trump, but just curious about what the plan is for the entire displaced insurance industry employee base if they're actually eliminated? 

[Bama Chick 28596]

I don't give too many shits about which D defeats Trump, but just curious about what the plan is for the entire displaced insurance industry employee base if they're actually eliminated? 

Let them learn to code.

[bad_teammate 13499]

In any dramatic shift in production or focus of economy, labor protections must exist and people must be guaranteed decent work. This is why Bernie Sanders is proposing a federal jobs guarantee, Jobs for All.

The administration of single-payer will still require a larger bureaucracy full of people, just a smaller one. So essentially some people will find themselves either moving offices from Aetna to CMS or simply staying in place as various arms of the insurance industry are nationalized. (An interesting proposal is to just nationalize all of them immediately and then handle all changes through representative labor unions. Slower and uglier, but far more protective to workers.)

There are definitely jobs that will no longer be needed:
- Much of the executive class will be pointless (it already is, of course)
- Billing will be less useful
- Debt-chasing will either be dramatically reduced or disappear complete (Bernie wants to get rid of all medical debt)

But at the end of the day, the point isn't really to spend less money on healthcare. The actual goal is to reduce the drain healthcare puts on people's incomes and lives. We could create a system in which we still spend 2x as much as the rest of the world, but that investment of capital spreads widely among the actual citizens (especially in the form of good-paying jobs). That is, after all, the only real point of an economy.

We had an economic boom in WWII largely because we "needed" to create a bunch of stuff to be immediately shipped overseas and literally blown up. The boom didn't happen because there was a real driver, but because we started throwing our money at each other.

BCBS-Michigan's CEO made $19M last year. That all comes from premiums and co-pays and all that crap. So we can save $19M by putting him in a guillotine and putting all those people under CMS, right?

Well what if we just use that $19M/year to pay 300 people $63.3k/year to be home healthcare workers for the elderly?

What if we used the same money we pay debt-chasers, even the same people, to just deliver meals to the elderly and homebound?

There is work that needs to be done and we just don't do it because it's not a profit center. I guarantee you could think of 3 more important things that SHOULD be done in healthcare but aren't. Things that rely on volunteering and charity that go unfulfilled. Playing bingo with grandma at the nursing home. Showing up in costume at pediatric cancer wards. An extra set of hands for menial and busy work that we don't even see.

A huge one: A SHORTER WORK WEEK FOR EVERYONE

Move "full-time" from 40 hours/week to 25 hours/week.

Profit is a chain around our throats.

[Js1 87175]

8 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

I don't give too many shits about which D defeats Trump, but just curious about what the plan is for the entire displaced insurance industry employee base if they're actually eliminated? 

We need a 21st century New Deal.  A NEWER DEAL.  New Deal Now! 

[bad_teammate 13499]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

We need a 21st century New Deal.  A NEWER DEAL.  New Deal Now! 

People like colors. What if we put a color on that?

I hear green is popular.

[Js1 87175]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

People like colors. What if we put a color on that?

I hear green is popular.

Don't be a colorist. 

[bad_teammate 13499]

I will also accept red.

[Js1 87175]

I bet you would, commie. 

[Biff Tannen 46157]

9 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

I don't give too many shits about which D defeats Trump, but just curious about what the plan is for the entire displaced insurance industry employee base if they're actually eliminated? 

Obviously there would need to be options and/or a plan to transition these people, but the main point is that this would not happen all at once like Rs (and some Ds) would have us believe.  The transition from the current system to any kind of M4A system will take several years AT LEAST.  There will be time to figure it out.  I hate the fear mongering that it will be an overnight shift and suddenly everyone in the industry will be out of a job and everything will be upended.  That's bullshit.

[Js1 87175]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Obviously there would need to be options and/or a plan to transition these people, but the main point is that this would not happen all at once like Rs (and some Ds) would have us believe.  The transition from the current system to any kind of M4A system will take several years AT LEAST.  There will be time to figure it out.  I hate the fear mongering that it will be an overnight shift and suddenly everyone in the industry will be out of a job and everything will be upended.  That's bullshit.

Yes, the plans ranged from a 3 year phase in (Bernie) to a 10 year phase in (Harris).  It will not literally happen day 1 of a Democratic presidency.  

[BradInATX 9208]

I mean the government needs about 4x as many employees to do the same work of the private sector. So not only would the government have room for the 2.7 million people that are currently employed by the health insurance industry, but they'd create about 8 million more jobs. 

[tantric superman 4668]

As a member of a company that outsources to the federal government, I assume that we will simply outsource these jobs to private companies who already do outsourced work from the private insurers. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

48 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Obviously there would need to be options and/or a plan to transition these people, but the main point is that this would not happen all at once like Rs (and some Ds) would have us believe.  The transition from the current system to any kind of M4A system will take several years AT LEAST.  There will be time to figure it out.  I hate the fear mongering that it will be an overnight shift and suddenly everyone in the industry will be out of a job and everything will be upended.  That's bullshit.

Concern for a plan's implementation is warranted.

However, the fear mongering deserves your ire and I agree with you. Some of the options that bt suggested w/respect to health care might be helpful. I would also suggest that perhaps during the transition that data skilled employees might be able to perform some much needed catch up in states across America for:

Court appointed Special Advocates (CASA) for children.

Helping with form backlogs as needed for foster care systems and other social work areas, VA healthcare systems, genetic testing paperwork for crime labs. There is much infrastructure in our country that is being ignored, some of it requires physical labor and some of it simply requires time and effort.

Americans helping Americans.

[bad_teammate 13499]

22 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I mean the government needs about 4x as many employees to do the same work of the private sector. So not only would the government have room for the 2.7 million people that are currently employed by the health insurance industry, but they'd create about 8 million more jobs. 

Republicans 4 Pete!

[bad_teammate 13499]

Iraq War cheerleading Republicans are tired of people criticizing Pete.

Jonathan Chait, Jennifer Rubin, wow

So impressive.

[Foosters 18269]

FWIW (not much, I presume), I've been cold on Pete for awhile now. I don't think he's the right candidate for a number of reasons, but this McKinsey shit is kinda pissing me off. People on Twitter claiming to be experts on how this stuff works are stating that he was a whiz kid brought in specifically to "fix" these issues.

Is that how corporate america works at all? International firms - of any type - with senior associates and partners with hundreds of years of combined experience turn to the fresh graduate with ZERO experience? Is that how law firms work? Is that how accounting firms work? Of course not. 

[Js1 87175]

Of course not. 

I think some of it is overblown.  But at the same time, he's 37.  His entire post-college career is 3 years at McKinsey, his time in the Naval Reserves, running and losing badly for Indiana state treasurer and his mayorship. 

He has approximately 12 years of actual adult experience - 25% of that was at McKinsey. 

 

[GSU&UT 1799]

41 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Iraq War cheerleading Republicans are tired of people criticizing Pete.

Jonathan Chait, Jennifer Rubin, wow

So impressive.

God damn I would die happy if I never had to hear from Rubin again. Just one of the worst human beings

[GSU&UT 1799]

25 minutes ago, Foosters said:

FWIW (not much, I presume), I've been cold on Pete for awhile now. I don't think he's the right candidate for a number of reasons, but this McKinsey shit is kinda pissing me off. People on Twitter claiming to be experts on how this stuff works are stating that he was a whiz kid brought in specifically to "fix" these issues.

Is that how corporate america works at all? International firms - of any type - with senior associates and partners with hundreds of years of combined experience turn to the fresh graduate with ZERO experience? Is that how law firms work? Is that how accounting firms work? Of course not. 

No offense, but when you go to willingly work for a company (and later don't try to distance yourself from it) that fucking works with the CIA to help, at best, doing some heinous shit then you deserve all the crap you get. It shouldn't be a shock to many of you that people under 40 aren't exactly bullish on our imperalistic adventures and the companies that help facilitate this.

[406W30th 1111]

7 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

God damn I would die happy if I never had to hear from Rubin again. Just one of the worst human beings

Same but Jonathan Chait.

[bad_teammate 13499]

If anyone argues that Pete was the mastermind behind price fixing at Loblaws and layoffs/rate hikes at BCBS-Michigan then that's very stupid. He wasn't the mastermind, he was an eager cog in the machine who is only questioning it now that he's seeing consequences that might halt his astonishingly high ambitions.

No need to dramatize it.

[Rougarou 594]

Pete is a decent guy and I've been in one and around all three MBB firms; AMA

 

 

 

 

j/k about the AMA due to NDA you know.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Rougarou

[TexEx15 17937]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I will also accept red.

Negged per your request.

[wildcat09 29578]

2 hours ago, Foosters said:

FWIW (not much, I presume), I've been cold on Pete for awhile now. I don't think he's the right candidate for a number of reasons, but this McKinsey shit is kinda pissing me off. People on Twitter claiming to be experts on how this stuff works are stating that he was a whiz kid brought in specifically to "fix" these issues.

Is that how corporate america works at all? International firms - of any type - with senior associates and partners with hundreds of years of combined experience turn to the fresh graduate with ZERO experience? Is that how law firms work? Is that how accounting firms work? Of course not. 

I don't think anyone hired McKinsey to "fix" anything. Directors of publicly traded companies hire the most expensive lawyers, accountants, and consultants so they can pretend they fulfilled their fiduciary duties to their shareholders. They don't actually care much about the quality of the work or the cost. When they hire a consulting firm, they're just looking for some "experts" to put together a report on how many people they should fire so they can pay themselves higher bonuses, while having a report to point to justifying it if any important shareholders ask why they did it.  

[bad_teammate 13499]

Yes.

And either you're smart and understand that's the job you're getting or you're an idiot and think you're doing something real and meaningful.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Pete could have done anything with his pedigree and he decided his first job out of college would be at McKinsey because?!?...

[bad_teammate 13499]

It's part of the track for achievers. It's a well-respected and famous name.

My take from 3/30/2019 when Pete's polls were 1.9% nationally:

But what if you have a history of going through extremely powerful institutions and, every time you leave them, your takeaway is, "Wow, these places are great!"?

Harvard -> Oxford -> McKinsey -> U.S. Military

How polished smooth is your mind and moral judgement that you walk out of every single one of those like a well-read Forrest Gump?

Sure, I can see a story where a bright kid follows the track he was told to and, upon seeing the truth of the ugliness of wealth and power from inside the belly of the beast, comes out to rescue the masses from their masters, but... that's not what this is.

 

 

[wildcat09 29578]

29 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's part of the track for achievers. It's a well-respected and famous name.

My take from 3/30/2019 when Pete's polls were 1.9% nationally:

But what if you have a history of going through extremely powerful institutions and, every time you leave them, your takeaway is, "Wow, these places are great!"?

Harvard -> Oxford -> McKinsey -> U.S. Military

How polished smooth is your mind and moral judgement that you walk out of every single one of those like a well-read Forrest Gump?

Sure, I can see a story where a bright kid follows the track he was told to and, upon seeing the truth of the ugliness of wealth and power from inside the belly of the beast, comes out to rescue the masses from their masters, but... that's not what this is.

 

 

All Pete would need to say politically to address his time at McKinsey to most people's satisfaction is some variation of "I wanted to gain practical experience in the private sector but it turned out that everything was designed to harm working people to benefit unscrupulous directors, so that's why I left to begin a career in public service." Even if it was total bullshit it would sell. I'm a little curious why he hasn't taken that approach.

[bad_teammate 13499]

10 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Even if it was total bullshit it would sell. I'm a little curious why he hasn't taken that approach.

It was a vital part of his sales pitch until a week ago. It's too late now.

[Foosters 18269]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes.

And either you're smart and understand that's the job you're getting or you're an idiot and think you're doing something real and meaningful.

That's fair, but basically under this framework, the only palatable candidate is Bernie. I mean, Warren and Klobuchar worked for law firms that surely did business that would make some uncomfortable. 

Those women could've chosen anything they wanted and they chose prestigious law firms?  

Note: I don't think their work should disqualify them either. 

[bad_teammate 13499]

Disqualify? Nope. I agree with you on that. It doesn't disqualify Pete at all in my mind.

In fact, if he came out of that gauntlet of power, privilege, and prestige with a deep and critical analysis of those institutions and what they represent, that would actually be really cool.

But if he did, he wouldn't be where he is and who he is.

So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[BradInATX 9208]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pete could have done anything with his pedigree and he decided his first job out of college would be at McKinsey because?!?...

Can't imagine why someone coming out of college would want to set himself and his family up for a life of financial comfort with one of the most prestigious white-glove consulting firms on Earth. 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

ELIZABETH WARREN COULD HAVE DONE ANYTHING WITH HER PEDIGREE AND SHE DECIDED HER FIRST PROFESSIONAL JOB EVER WOULD BE THE LAW FIRM THAT DEFENDED ONE OF THE MOST VILLAINOUS TRAITORS INVOLVED IN WATERGATE, THE HEAD HONCHO WHO HELPED NIXON COVER UP HIS CRIMES... BECAUSE?!?

*PUTS ON HELMET TO WALK OUTSIDE*

GOOD DAY

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Can't imagine why someone coming out of college would want to set himself and his family up for a life of financial comfort with one of the most prestigious white-glove consulting firms on Earth. 

 

Nothing questionable about it if your goal in life isn’t a career of public service or running for President of the United States within the next decade.  

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

ELIZABETH WARREN COULD HAVE DONE ANYTHING WITH HER PEDIGREE AND SHE DECIDED HER FIRST PROFESSIONAL JOB EVER WOULD BE THE LAW FIRM THAT DEFENDED ONE OF THE MOST VILLAINOUS TRAITORS INVOLVED IN WATERGATE, THE HEAD HONCHO WHO HELPED NIXON COVER UP HIS CRIMES... BECAUSE?!?

*PUTS ON HELMET TO WALK OUTSIDE*

GOOD DAY

She was a special needs public school teacher first. Then she went to law school only to go on to teach law while doing some corporate law work on the side. Burn her.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She was a special needs public school teacher first. Then she went to law school only to go on to teach law while doing some corporate law work on the side. 

She willingly chose the law firm that defended the head of the organization that Nixon formed to cover up his crimes as her first private sector job ever. This is no different than your unbelievably stupid point about Pete choosing McKinsey as his first job straight out of school.

Most companies are shitty. Most people work for shitty companies at some point in their life. It's about how they react to that, whether they make that a lifelong career, and how directly involved they were with the really nefarious stuff that their company does. And unlike your "point", that's a discussion worth having. But you'll have to do it with someone else, because I have no interest in having that discussion with the 2nd least nuanced person on this site.

Besides, I don't want to derail you from your goal to completely shit up yet another thread. Carry on.

Edited December 11, 2019 by BradInATX

[bad_teammate 13499]

A backstory war between Warren & Buttigieg is a great one to fight for Warrenites, because while it is absolutely true that she has worked for a few bad people, she has a very long and very open conversion process and subsequent decades of fighting against the evils she saw with her own eyes in the financial sector.

If the political winds weren't blowing this way, Pete would still be talking about how great McKinsey is. Liz went to war with the banks long before she even considered running for office.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Okay then. 

[BradInATX 9208]

BTW Hugo, you should be careful about modeling your entire message board persona after someone who spent their entire life profiteering off of one of the most predatory and destructive industries on Earth. Choose your mentors carefully. You were a much better poster before you started down the path of becoming a poor man's b_t.

Edited December 11, 2019 by BradInATX

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Got it

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

[Js1 87175]

Why men great till they gotta be great

[Js1 87175]

The parody of this will be hilarious.  I'm seeing Ben Platt as Pete and Queen Latifah as Lizzo. 

[bad_teammate 13499]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Shoot me in the face.

[Js1 87175]

That's worse than Pokémon Go! to the polls. 

[Js1 87175]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Shoot me in the face.

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Why is he so cringe????

“Hello black women! I’m 100 percent that white guy at work who awkwardly comments on your hair and asks what you think of the latest brilliant Tyler Perry movie!”

[bad_teammate 13499]

"If you're not a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you're 40, you have no brain." - Winston Churchill - Michael Scott