Texas Inmate Set For Execution in April For the Dragging Death of Jasper Man

[Homesickhorn 2,202]

I used to be on the fence about the death penalty.

Then this happened. https://www.kalb.com/content/news/Mother-of-baby-burned-to-death-in-Natchitoches-indicted-500167871.html 

Now I'm for hangings on the courthouse lawn... immediately after sentencing. 

 

 

I’ve been slowly and guardedly reading this thread. The Watts daughter begging for her dad to please not do to her what he’d just done to her sister fucked me up. The video above I could’ve handled, had they not shown the picture of that little six month old boy smiling. And the fact that he lived another 8-9 hours just ices the shitcake for me. The mom and the girl who committed the act, need to go. Their constant breathing on this planet takes away oxygen from people who are actually good, want to be good, or at least trying to be good.

I feel fucking sick.

[immortal13 4,059]

Kill yourself, fine. Kill a child and you deserve the chair 

[RollLeft 5,044]

I think that if there is a guilty verdict by the jury that life in prison is the max sentence however if the verdict is unanimous it should trigger and allow the option for the grieved to request a death sentence where either they could carry it out themselves (push the button) or ask the state to carry out the execution.   jmo.

5 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

i was a foreman for a capital murder case, prosecution was not seeking the death penalty.  We found the man guilty, my signature on the the verdict forms sent him to prison for the rest of his life.  I think about that act and what it did at times, it gave peace to one group of people and sent another person away forever.   I think the death penalty is too fraught with wrongful convictions that can't be undone like mine could, not to mention even when right it's too easy and gives more power to the perpetrator by keeping them relevant.  None of you will ever know the name of the man I and 11 others presided in judgement over and that's probably the way it should be.... 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by RollLeft

[immortal13 4,059]

About 2 years ago, some piece of shit killed a 6 year old little girl about a mile from my house. Threw her down a well at the house he lived at after he was through with her. I can't wait for them to execute that piece of shit.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

I see the problem as not the death penalty in these extreme cases but when the prosecution finds a case that may just barely convince a jury.

[texashorne 1,177]

I actually think the death penalty is the more humane thing to do. These people who commit these heinous acts are sick and in a great deal of mental and emotional pain. 

 

[Cajun 11,705]

20 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Honestly, that doesn't even help.  Do some research into the reliability of "eyewitness" testimony.  Your jaw will drop.  

And there are people on death row, and people dead and buried, who ended up there based on only the testimony of one or two eyewitnesses.

I already know too much about that.

Nauseating.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

I wonder how many innocent people have been convicted of murder and died in jail?  

[Felix 607]

33 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I wonder how many innocent people have been convicted of murder and died in jail?  

Too many.  One is too many, but there have been a hell of lot more than that. 

[tokamak 6,427]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I see the problem as not the death penalty in these extreme cases but when the prosecution finds a case that may just barely convince a jury.

Yep. Clearly there are people out there that this world would be better off without. Several of them have been mentioned in this thread. But my (and others') objection to the death penalty is that the justice system is conceived of and run by human beings, which means that it's fallible. Same deal if you somehow tried to restrict the death penalty to "obvious" cases. Then in addition to guilty/innocent, you're just asking an imperfect human system to draw the line between obvious and not. No doubt over time that prosecutors would try to push the boundary.

If God Almighty opened the skies above every trial and said "guilty" or "not guilty", then OK, put people to death. Otherwise, there's no way to design a system that doesn't rely on human beings. And human beings are prone to fucking up (or lying, or misremembering things) sometimes, no matter what's being asked of them.

[Pescado_Rojo 19,416]

On 3/20/2019 at 3:38 PM, ajax said:

Here's the guy who prosecuted him, BJJ black belt Pat Hardy. I remember chatting with him on an ancient BJJ/MMA messageboard when he was just a deputy sheriff getting his law degree at night school, the next thing I know he's the prosecutor in the most high profile case in the country.

http://www.thefullwiki.org/Pat_"Hawk"_Hardy

 

 

Fun Fact, he's also my cousin. 

[ajax 2,611]

9 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Fun Fact, he's also my cousin. 

You're Hawk's cousin? Awesome. Tell him Ajax from the old Mousel's board says hi.

[Pescado_Rojo 19,416]

19 minutes ago, ajax said:

You're Hawk's cousin? Awesome. Tell him Ajax from the old Mousel's board says hi.

I haven't talked to him since my grandmother's funeral in 03. He and my dad are first cousins, and are 3 months apart in age. They grew up like brothers and both got heavy into martial arts in the 60s. To say their lives took different paths in adulthood would be a massive understatement. 

[Bigbend1812 12,915]

Tie this mother fucker to two trucks heading in opposite directions and floor it.  Better yet do it at Rednecks with paychecks. 

[Pato del Muerto 52,493]

14 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I see the problem as not the death penalty in these extreme cases but when the prosecution finds a case that may just barely convince a jury.

Yep, and scope creep.  Prosecutors will over time open that window wider and wider. 

[austingirl 2,191]

I remember waking up and hearing about this the day after it happened. Most of us figured if something like that was going to happen this day and age, it would happen in Vidor, not Jasper. I had bad dreams about it for a while. And it's not like I wasn't aware that we lived where there was an obvious undercurrent of violent racism, but it was much easier to ignore before this happened. I moved to Austin the next year to go to school and have been here ever since.

[ChiTownDoc 21,153]

On 3/21/2019 at 10:10 AM, Onboard 2.0 said:

There's always got to be that guy that ruins it for the rest of us....  why we can't have nice things

Should have saved the money on injections and let the guy lined up after him do the deed.  

[ChiTownDoc 21,153]

On 3/21/2019 at 11:44 AM, futureman said:

that sounds like mental illness more than evil. 

 

On 3/21/2019 at 11:58 AM, ajax said:

Not mental illness. Watts was an extreme narcissist. He had a mistress and wanted to disappear his family so he could be with her. 

Well narcissistic personality disorder is listed in the authoritative guide on mental illness, the DSM.  

[4th and 5 4,914]

For every 9 people executed, 1 person sentenced to death has been exonerated.

Let that sink in.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

For every 9 people executed, 1 person sentenced to death has been exonerated.

Let that sink in.

90%?  That's outstanding for government work...

 

Ya got a link there, Charlie?

Edited March 25, 2019 by slorch

[4th and 5 4,914]

NUMBER OF EXECUTIONS SINCE 1976: 1493

Death Row Exonerations By State Total: 164

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

On 3/25/2019 at 6:22 PM, 4th and 5 said:

NUMBER OF EXECUTIONS SINCE 1976: 1493

Death Row Exonerations By State Total: 164

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf

 

That’s a bad ass link.  All sorts of cool info there. 

 

 Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000).
• The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial level. (Duke University, May 1993).
• In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).

[Brisketexan 105,123]

2 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

That’s a bad ass link.  All sorts of cool info there. 

 

 Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000).
• The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial level. (Duke University, May 1993).
• In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).

And the dollars was the first thing to get me to move off of a pro-death penalty position.  I love vengeance as much as the next guy (actually, probably way more, like an unhealthy level more), but we have better things to do with our dollars.

Throw bad people in the hole that they never get out of.  Be cheap about it.  AND, if it turns out we were wrong (we have a proven, significant error rate in such matters), we can fix our mistake by releasing them.

[wutang75 446]

Hope this isn’t too cloaky.

 

There has to be a level of “extra extra guilty”, lol. I’ve always been for the death penalty - but like many others the frequency of people getting exonerated makes it difficult to support.

 

The reason I still support the death penalty is because there are plenty of cases where cold blooded murderers are caught and there is not 1% of doubt. I can’t imagine being the victims family and knowing that person is still on this earth.

 

I know there are a lot of attorneys on this site but it seems that for a case to be made a capital murder case, it goes through a rigorous (extremely?) process. Maybe not as much so in Texas. Enlighten me.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Brisketexan 105,123]

2 minutes ago, wutang75 said:

I know there are a lot of attorneys on this site but it seems that for a case to be made a capital murder case, it goes through a rigorous (extremely?) process. Maybe not as much so in Texas. Enlighten me.

Here's a simple summary of why the error rate is so high:

Emotion clouds human judgment.

The entire process depends on human judgment, ultimately.

There's not much more emotional than the fact pattern of a Capital Murder case.

[wutang75 446]

Here's a simple summary of why the error rate is so high: Emotion clouds human judgment.

The entire process depends on human judgment, ultimately.

There's not much more emotional than the fact pattern of a Capital Murder case.

 

 

Ok - let’s take a case of a serial killer that is caught by a surviving witness, DNA is faultless, maybe he even confesses. Still no needle?

 

I’m not being argumentative I’m sincerely on the fence.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Brisketexan 105,123]

Just now, wutang75 said:

 

Ok - let’s take a case of a serial killer that is caught my a surviving witness, DNA is faultless, maybe he even confesses. Still no needle?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

Nope.

Because there's no practical mechanism for creating a legal dividing line between that type of case and the 164 other Capital Murder cases that were wrongly decided.

Witness testimony is proven to be unreliable.

DNA evidence that you think is "faultless" may turn out to be contaminated, tampered with, etc. -- and you don't know that right away.

False confessions can be -- and often are -- coerced.

That doesn't mean that the guy isn't guilty as sin.  It just means that there is ALWAYS a possibility of error and/or shenanigans.

[HouTex 1,867]

Some/most of you will still think it's too many, but the number of executions has dropped dramatically in the past 10 years.  Since 08, the yearly executions in the US have totaled, 37, 52, 46, 43, 39, 35, 28, 30, 23, 25, and for 2019 we are on a pace for 12.  That's nationwide.  In the proper case, I'm in favor of the death penalty.  This is such a case and I can think of a number of Texas cases over the past 40+ years that it was appropriate.  

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

2 minutes ago, wutang75 said:

Hope this isn’t too cloaky.

There has to be a level of “extra extra guilty”, lol. I’ve always been for the death penalty - but like many others the frequency of people getting exonerated makes it difficult to support.

The reason I still support the death penalty is because there are plenty of cases where cold blooded murderers are caught and there is not 1% of doubt. I can’t imagine being the victims family and knowing that person is still on this earth. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I agree.  Some of these assholes we are 100% sure of guilt.  Like when you have a unrecanted admissions, video tape, witnesses, DNA evidence, other physical evidence, or some combination of both.  These evil bastards should be put to death quickly and cheaply.  Hang their ass ten minutes after the jury reaches the verdict or shoot them.  No need for an electric chair or lethal injection.  

I have always equated beyond reasonable doubt to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 95 to 99% certainty.  For those people, l simply could not in good conscious sentence them to death.  Prison is appropriate for those crimes.

If I am on the jury and not at least 95% certain of guilt, you are walking.

[tokamak 6,427]

Some/most of you will still think it's too many, but the number of executions has dropped dramatically in the past 10 years.  Since 08, the yearly executions in the US have totaled, 37, 52, 46, 43, 39, 35, 28, 30, 23, 25, and for 2019 we are on a pace for 12.  That's nationwide.  In the proper case, I'm in favor of the death penalty.  This is such a case and I can think of a number of Texas cases over the past 40+ years that it was appropriate.  

Some of that trend may be due to difficulties in obtaining the drugs used in lethal injections. Pharmaceutical companies have been under a lot of pressure to stop selling them to states.

[HoustonHorn 1,062]

Why floor it?

Tie this mother fucker to two trucks heading in opposite directions and floor it.  Better yet do it at Rednecks with paychecks. 

That said, my understanding of how many times we have fucked up and convicted the wrong person has convinced me that the death penalty can't be used. You can never right that wrong and humans are imperfect.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

32 minutes ago, HoustonHorn said:

Why floor it?

That said, my understanding of how many times we have fucked up and convicted the wrong person has convinced me that the death penalty can't be used. You can never right that wrong and humans are imperfect.

Nor can you can't right the wrong of sending an innocent to prison and them getting raped and murdered.  Or just dying of old age. 

[HoustonHorn 1,062]

You can at least attempt to make amends. You're never bringing them back from the dead though.

Nor can you can't right the wrong of sending an innocent to prison and them getting raped and murdered.  Or just dying of old age. 

[Helobious 9,449]

On 3/22/2019 at 12:37 AM, RollLeft said:

I think that if there is a guilty verdict by the jury that life in prison is the max sentence however if the verdict is unanimous it should trigger and allow the option for the grieved to request a death sentence where either they could carry it out themselves (push the button) or ask the state to carry out the execution.   jmo.

 

What button? It's not the 1980's anymore. They'd have to be in the chamber with the killer looking for a vein to put the syringe in. And they'd have to know what they're doing too because the killer could survive if it's done wrong. 

Also all verdicts already have to be unanimous in criminal trials. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Helobious

[TwiceHorn 31,460]

Most religions proscribe or frown upon vengeance, even Islam.  Whatever you think of religion, when there's a principle in it that's almost universal, that's probably an indicator that it's a sound principle.

I'm like brisket, I initially began to object because of the cost, and, like several have said, I think lifetime incarceration is probably a more severe punishment. 

And now the exposure of the error rate in convictions, which was previously abstract, makes it even more unpalatable and completely unacceptable.

But as I have mellowed with age, and come to know some things about people fucking up and redeeming themselves, and the power of forgiveness for both the perp and the victim, I have come to believe that basing criminal justice on vengeance is just flat cosmically wrong.  And the death penalty is the ultimate embodiment of vengeance in our system.  The state shouldn't sanction or engage in vengeance, particularly with the finality of death.

But, that's just, like, my opinion, man.

Edited March 28, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[4th and 5 4,914]

Read the studies on race from the DPIC fact sheet. Consistent in all states studied. Sickening.

Deterrence? The murder rate is highest where the death penalty is used more frequently.

Harris County, Texas is #2 in the nation in executions. Ahead of all the other states except Texas. Let that sink in  

 

 

 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

10 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

And the dollars was the first thing to get me to move off of a pro-death penalty position.  I love vengeance as much as the next guy (actually, probably way more, like an unhealthy level more), but we have better things to do with our dollars.

Throw bad people in the hole that they never get out of.  Be cheap about it.  AND, if it turns out we were wrong (we have a proven, significant error rate in such matters), we can fix our mistake by releasing them.

Yeah but if you release them, then you gotta pay them a hefty settlement when they sue you. If you kill them they can't sue you. So there's that.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

10 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

Read the studies on race from the DPIC fact sheet. Consistent in all states studied. Sickening.

Deterrence? The murder rate is highest where the death penalty is used more frequently.

Harris County, Texas is #2 in the nation in executions. Ahead of all the other states except Texas. Let that sink in  

 

 

 

Your.second paragraph is demonstrably false.  

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

Cities with highest murder rate - St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit.  

[Underdog 28,625]

 

[HoustonHorn 1,062]

See the recent posts about people being released who were wrongly convicted. Can you completely right the wrong, no. Can they still be released to enjoy their time remaining in this Earth and hopefully with a big paycheck. Yes.

Nor can you can't right the wrong of sending an innocent to prison and them getting raped and murdered.  Or just dying of old age. 

[4th and 5 4,914]

12 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Your.second paragraph is demonstrably false.  

I misspoke. Obviously. Murder rate is highest where death penalty is most frequent. By region, not city. It’s right there in the fact sheet. 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

5 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

I misspoke. Obviously. Murder rate is highest where death penalty is most frequent. By region, not city. It’s right there in the fact sheet. 

Harris County has a pretty low murder rate compared to its peers.