Now is the time for good people to join the Republican Party?

[tantric superman 4667]

There is a question mark at the end of the title because I honestly don't know if anyone could do any good by actually attending Republican functions. I'm an anyone but Trumpster, and to me certainly any activity prior to the 2020 election would feel simply like being part of a Fifth Column. 

I can't see supporting anyone in that party.  The only purpose would be to simply try to get into it to change it.  When I was in college I was pretty conservative, but those were in the days when there seemed to be some intelligent conservatives around and there were folks like Bush I whose heart seemed to be in the right place.

When I mean change it, I mean to try to effect what were at one time the ideals of conservatism - limited federal govt, libertarianism, some semblance of budgetary responsibility.  This while at the same time trying to figure out a way to effect some equality of opportunity.

I think the younger folks in the Dem party are going to take care of pushing progressive ideas.  To me the utter moral vacuum in the Republican Party creates at least some opportunity of realists coming in and wrestling some control, in bits and pieces, away from the religious wackos and zero sum gamers in that party.

I guess I'm wondering if any of your more moderate folks have had any of the same thoughts?  I think probably not, and the response to this is probably -- good luck with that shit.

[Grippe 308]

I like your approach of wanting to do something to improve conservatism as opposed to simply attacking the opposition.

And to answer your question I wholeheartedly believe if you feel motivated to get in there and make a difference then do so - nothing wrong with that at all.

[Horn Dog 9671]

Gonna need to let it burn down first and let it walk the desert for a while.  Once the crazies have been shunned, reasonable conservatives will once again have a voice in the Republican party.

[horncyclist 1386]

I'd prefer a new conservative or center-right party. The Republican party is beyond repair in my opinion. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Good people need to overthrow the Republican Party. 

[retread 2951]

There's nothing left of the old GOP, just a husk. Expose its corruption and criminality and burn it down.

Same goes for Ds. Have the courage to expose your misdoings and get rid of your criminals.

[immortal13 4059]

And the Democratic party is any better? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Good people need to overthrow them too.

[Parliament 14133]

When the old people are all dead. we won't have to pander to them.  It'll be a good day.

[David Dennison 18655]

56 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

And the Democratic party is any better? 

Yes. A lot.

But it could be better, too.

[hpslugga 4044]

2 hours ago, tantric superman said:

Now is the time for good people to join the Republican Party?.

This question presupposes a need for a Republican Party.

[TwiceHorn 31269]

18 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

This question presupposes a need for a Republican Party.

Well, there needs to be some counterbalance.

Something Mayor Pete said gave me an idea where the GOP went wrong:  you can't go back.  Classical conservatism is simply to be measured in making changes and some fiscal conservatism; it serves to keep more progressive movements from becoming untethered.  Starting with abortion, I think, the GOP became obsessed with "going back" instead of its legitimate role of constraining (not merely obstructing) progressive ideas.

The big question to me, and it's vexing, is whether it needs to be a whole new party or change can be effected from within.  I'm terribly vexed.

Edited March 24, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[hpslugga 4044]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, there needs to be some counterbalance.

A counterbalance to what?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

51 minutes ago, Parliament said:

When the old people are all dead. we won't have to pander to them.  It'll be a good day.

Uhhh... ummm...  You......  uhhh they...........  never mind.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, there needs to be some counterbalance.

Something Mayor Pete said gave me an idea where the GOP went wrong:  you can't go back.  Classical conservatism is simply to be measured in making changes and some fiscal conservatism; it serves to keep more progressive movements from becoming untethered.  Starting with abortion, I think, the GOP became obsessed with "going back" instead of its legitimate role of constraining (not merely obstructing) progressive ideas.

The big question to me, and it's vexing, is whether it needs to be a whole new party or change can be effected from within.  I'm terribly vexed.

No need to be vexed. It's near impossible to build a new and competitive party apparatus today. It's why the ultra left and ultra right are forced to throw their hats into the Dem and GOP rings. 

So you take back the GOP, but you have to wait for Trump to go away first.  There is no beating him right now in the GOP.  So you vote Dem in 2020 to sit him down, and then you go try to fix the GOP from within.  While the alt right will still exist as a GOP faction, there simply isn't anyone else that can carry their banner and win. It has to be delivered with obfuscation and buffoonery or else it is simply too hateful a platform to win. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

3 hours ago, tantric superman said:

When I mean change it, I mean to try to effect what were at one time the ideals of conservatism - limited federal govt, libertarianism, some semblance of budgetary responsibility.  This while at the same time trying to figure out a way to effect some equality of opportunity.

Seems like you might want to figure some things out before seeking power, huh?

[Macanudo 12926]

2 hours ago, hpslugga said:

This question presupposes a need for a Republican Party.

So.... One party rule?

[bad_teammate 13132]

1) What are the problems facing Americans and the Earth today?
2) What are the solutions your worldview proposes to address those problems?

[Guest Lobo]

I'd like to see the Whig party make a comeback.  

[Gil Bang 25897]

 

 

3 hours ago, immortal13 said:

And the Democratic party is any better? 

By light years.  

The GOP  has become the party of uneducated, anti-intellectual idiots.  

OP would be better off joining the D party and trying to sway it into a more conservative  direction than trying to pull the GOP out of the burning dumpster. 

[immortal13 4059]

9 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

 

By light years.  

The GOP  has become the party of uneducated, anti-intellectual idiots.  

 

AOC says hi

[Gil Bang 25897]

AOC is very well educated.

[77horn 216]

1 minute ago, Gil Bang said:

AOC is very well educated.

Yes, she's educated well beyond her intellectual capacity.

[WhatTheBuck 28710]

3 hours ago, immortal13 said:

And the Democratic party is any better? 

Much, much better. They're the party that's dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Lincoln would be a Democrat if he were alive today. They also still believe in science and education and the separation of church and state, unlike the GOP which has been taken over by religious nutjobs. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Why would anyone join a party? That parties have always had their best interest at heart, not that of the American people.

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 minutes ago, 77horn said:

Yes, she's educated well beyond her intellectual capacity.

I bet you say that about a lot of minorities. 

In private company of course, since you’re a coward. As a middle aged white guy I get to hear it from guys like you all the time. 

[Gil Bang 25897]

AOC's had the formal education, graduating cum laude from  Boston U, and a pretty decent education in the school of hard knocks.  That's a pretty good combo. 

[77horn 216]

12 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I bet you say that about a lot of minorities. 

In private company of course, since you’re a coward. As a middle aged white guy I get to hear it from guys like you all the time. 

do you call everyone you disagree with a racist?  Because that seems to be dominate line of attack on this board.

I say she is educated beyond her intellect because even though she had a degree in economics, she had no clue about the simplest concepts, and her GND is laughed at by anyone who thinks about what it would entail.  But she's attractive and an outspoken socialist, so nowadays, simpletons think she's cool.

[henrygandorf 29174]

this used to be a pretty simple principle that many agreed with:

 

 

how did we get from there to here?

15 years ago, trump was a registered democrat and george w bush was a republican president.

the lines are so fucking blurred, it's all self-interest and self-preservation.  who do i need to agree with, how do i need to act, to get what i want, and ensure my success.  it's no longer about "what do i believe".

i have a lawyer buddy out here who worked for dhs under bush, then went back and worked there again under obama.  that would never happen today.

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 minute ago, 77horn said:

do you call everyone you disagree with a racist?  Because that seems to be dominate line of attack on this board.

I say she is educated beyond her intellect because even though she had a degree in economics, she had no clue about the simplest concepts, and her GND is laughed at by anyone who thinks about what it would entail.  But she's attractive and an outspoken socialist, so nowadays, simpletons think she's cool.

saying all dems are aoc is like saying all r's are lindsey graham.  there needs to be a spectrum to cultivate ideas.  instead of just the vocal and the scared.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

saying all dems are aoc is like saying all r's are lindsey graham.  there needs to be a spectrum to cultivate ideas.  instead of just the vocal and the scared.

Of course they're not, but the you're a racist chorus from democrats here is the lowest hanging fruit on an already diseased tree.

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 minutes ago, 77horn said:

do you call everyone you disagree with a racist?  Because that seems to be dominate line of attack on this board.

I say she is educated beyond her intellect because even though she had a degree in economics, she had no clue about the simplest concepts, and her GND is laughed at by anyone who thinks about what it would entail.  But she's attractive and an outspoken socialist, so nowadays, simpletons think she's cool.

So everyone who agrees with her is a “simpleton” who “thinks she’s cool?” Do you say that about everyone you disagree with? 

You are really showing your ass here. 

[David Dennison 18655]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Of course they're not, but the you're a racist chorus from democrats here is the lowest hanging fruit on an already diseased tree.

Again, we understand that it hits close to home.

You should work on that.

[berlinerbaer 670]

Now is a terrible time to join the Republican Party. My guess is that if you went to a local party meeting you'd either be afraid to speak up or you'd get shouted down by the wingnuts. If you're lucky, they'd humor you and then blow you off.

There's no convincing them. They'll only understand one thing: Losing. 2018 was a good start, but they need to lose more. Vote. Them. Out. Their brand of politics needs to be a political loser on a national level or they'll see no reason to change.

As an aside, you seem to think the Dems are heading to the leftist fringe at warp speed and you couldn't be a voice of moderation. That might be true, but I think we are a decade away, and that's only if the Dems do a lot of winning between now and then and become fat and dumb themselves.

[bad_teammate 13132]

13 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

this used to be a pretty simple principle that many agreed with

Did you watch the clip? He talks about how "the tax", whatever it is in that episode of that ridiculous show, was to prevent aristocracy but it's all cool now because wealth is now spread around... uh... no.

[Gil Bang 25897]

13 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

this used to be a pretty simple principle that many agreed with:

 

 

how did we get from there to here?

15 years ago, trump was a registered democrat and george w bush was a republican president.

the lines are so fucking blurred, it's all self-interest and self-preservation.  who do i need to agree with, how do i need to act, to get what i want, and ensure my success.  it's no longer about "what do i believe".

i have a lawyer buddy out here who worked for dhs under bush, then went back and worked there again under obama.  that would never happen today.

Bush and Obama could have probably swapped several high-level folks and nobody would have noticed.  Take the Dept. of Energy.  Both Bush and Obama got science PhD guys for the job.  Trump got Rick fucking Perry. 

[Gil Bang 25897]

4 minutes ago, berlinerbaer said:

Now is a terrible time to join the Republican Party. My guess is that if you went to a local party meeting you'd either be afraid to speak up or you'd get shouted down by the wingnuts. If you're lucky, they'd humor you and then blow you off.

There's no convincing them. They'll only understand one thing: Losing. 2018 was a good start, but they need to lose more. Vote. Them. Out. Their brand of politics needs to be a political loser on a national level or they'll see no reason to change.

As an aside, you seem to think the Dems are heading to the leftist fringe at warp speed and you couldn't be a voice of moderation. That might be true, but I think we are a decade away, and that's only if the Dems do a lot of winning between now and then and become fat and dumb themselves.

remember the Jade Helm wingnuts yelling at the Army officer?    That's the modern GOP

[henrygandorf 29174]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Did you watch the clip? He talks about how "the tax", whatever it is in that episode of that ridiculous show, was to prevent aristocracy but it's all cool now because wealth is now spread around... uh... no.

well i can't edit youtube videos to illustrate exactly what i was trying to, but times change, things change, and people should be able to adapt.  that was the attitude at one point, but isn't the attitude now.

my point is that now, "why are you a republican" is a totally different question with a much different answer.  the question itself is basically an accusation.

this whole idea that "they're not the enemy, they're the opposition" is gone gone forever.

and why, exactly is the show "ridiculous"?

[bad_teammate 13132]

9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

and why, exactly is the show "ridiculous"?

Human beings don't talk like that.

[henrygandorf 29174]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Human beings don't talk like that.

you must watch sports to see how regular human beings pass, catch, hit, run, shoot, and catch.

[bad_teammate 13132]

8 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

you must watch sports to see how regular human beings pass, catch, hit, run, shoot, and catch.

The West Wing characters are dumber than average Americans.

[hpslugga 4044]

2 hours ago, Macanudo said:

So.... One party rule?

Right because the only alternative to a one party rule is to have a Republican Party 

[bad_teammate 13132]

What do you intellectual conservatives want this reborn Republican Party to do about the problems facing the world? Do you just want basically the same policy set as Trump with a more respectable face?

[Turkleton 145]

2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

AOC is very well educated.

But not very wise.

[hpslugga 4044]

36 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What do you intellectual conservatives want this reborn Republican Party to do about the problems facing the world? 

Just ask the Democrats 

[berlinerbaer 670]

6 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Just ask the Democrats 

So they should just suck it up for the next decade and vote D.

[hpslugga 4044]

1 minute ago, berlinerbaer said:

So they should just suck it up for the next decade and vote D.

By that I meant the Diane Feinsteins, the Steny Hoyers, the Nancy Pelosis, et al. I obviously did not mean to indict AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc with that.

But what Bill Maher said years ago about the former is absolutely true even more so now: they are the New Republicans.

Ideologically, their differences are very seldom and when there are some, it’s usually by a flea’s hop. We wouldn’t be “losing a Conservative party” if the GOP vanished. They’re not conservatives. They’re today’s Democrats if today’s Democrats forgot to take their insanity medications for at least a year.

[berlinerbaer 670]

2 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

By that I meant the Diane Feinsteins, the Steny Hoyers, the Nancy Pelosis, et al. I obviously did not mean to indict AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc with that.

But what Bill Maher said years ago about the former is absolutely true even more so now: they are the New Republicans.

Ideologically, their differences are very seldom and when there are some, it’s usually by a flea’s hop. We wouldn’t be “losing a Conservative party” if the GOP vanished. They’re not conservatives. They’re today’s Democrats if today’s Democrats forgot to take their insanity medications for at least a year.

Ridiculous.

I think those aforementioned establishment Democrats would at least be capable of engaging in dialogue about climate change as opposed to the GOP, who refuse to acknowledge its existence and work to stymie all progress on legislation, etc. So, yes, there is a chasm separating the moderate wing of the Democratic party and the GOP.

If the GOP vanished and the moderates became the new conservatives then this country would take a massive leap forward. Hook that shit up to my veins.

[77horn 216]

19 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

So everyone who agrees with her is a “simpleton” who “thinks she’s cool?” Do you say that about everyone you disagree with? 

You are really showing your ass here. 

Do you only use logical fallacies as your arguments? 

[hpslugga 4044]

22 hours ago, berlinerbaer said:

Ridiculous.

Because?

22 hours ago, berlinerbaer said:

I think those aforementioned establishment Democrats would at least be capable of engaging in dialogue about climate change as opposed to the GOP

...and this is what I meant by saying that they are the New Republicans, as has everyone else who has conveyed the same sentiment. The mainstream of the Democratic Party's position on dealing with climate change is basically Cap and Trade. Cap and Trade was, in no small way, a Republican initiative in earlier generations, but as you say, they now "refuse to acknowledge its existence and work to stymie all progress on legislation." Again you're correct, but you're only correct when speaking of them in this latest generation. They were for CaT before they were against it.

22 hours ago, berlinerbaer said:

If the GOP vanished and the moderates became the new conservatives then this country would take a massive leap forward. Hook that shit up to my veins.

And that's what I'm saying as well. If the Feinsteins, Schumers, Pelosis, et al formed a de facto "right-leaning" party with their current platform and made room for a "left-leaning party" led by the AOC's, Ilhan Omars, Rashida Tlaibs, Pramila Jayapals, that would be a lot healthier for the country because a much greater number of them would be represented. My only hope in such an arrangement would be that the former would much more frequently be a minority party than the latter.