The Struggle is Real

[Trey3216 15346]

2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

You have no idea.  Two private school tuition payments is a giant kick in the nuts.  And I'm not getting into the public/private school debate again on here.  Public is a really shitty option where we live (cue the "then move" comment).

Then move...to Arizona, not Texas

[Sbbruin 21843]

5 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

  Math works in funny ways when you access it in different manners.  

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

1 hour ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

New York City has state tax and city tax. 
That said, if you're living in the city - and in america, THE "city" - you have 2 luxury cars? 18k donations?  And 5k/mo mortgage...and 1k/mo in extracurriculars for the kids.
 
the while you haven't paid off your student loans?
 
Lol worldssmallestviolin.gif
 
Our ETR is higher than that and we ain't crying
 
 

Read more  

They say NYC but I don't think they can possibly be in the city. Between the cars and the gas, I'm guessing they live well outside and have a long driving commute. Those two don't make any sense otherwise.

They definitely live on the island and commute into the city via car instead of rail.  

[Guest Lobo]

What a strange construct that the places with the highest property taxes (Manhattan, Los Angeles, San Francisco, parts of Chicago and Boston, etc.) have some of the crappiest public schools with a high percentage of upper-middle to uber-wealthy residents paying for private school.  

If public schools just need more money, why is it that the districts with the most money have some of the worst schools.  Or at least, the schools with the most local residents bolting for the private/country day hills?  

I thought schools in places with the wealthy paying their "fair share" would be among the best?  And there's this one other common factor among the families/voters in those places/situations I mentioned above.  Can't think of it off the top of my head, but I think they favor one particular political party.  But yet, their money is there for the school districts to use for highest and best purposes.  Why doesn't it work out?  

Edited March 26, 2019 by Lobo

[DaggerHorns 3083]

Articles like this make me want to blow my fucking brains out.

I like the tax calculation. Just a 40% calculation. No deductions or credits. Just bullshit. Especially with high property taxes and kids just to name two details. Blatant inaccuracy.

Not maxing out 401k contribution. All numbers contain this magical wizardry of ending in even zeros.

Everything else is inflated and you can blame yourself. No one NEEDS to drive a Nazi sled (BMW). 

Take a hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why you’re so god damned stupid and why you pay $18k ito charity and bitch about your situation.

My personal favorite: Source financialsamurai.com - Some hack bullshit website that drives click bait just like this dickless article.

The only saving grace is that they have life insurance so if the parents get hit by a bus, they’ll have a shot at being raised by someone intelligent.

[tbone_ 14115]

Articles like this make me want to blow my fucking brains out.
I like the tax calculation. Just a 40% calculation. No deductions or credits. Just bullshit. Especially with high property taxes and kids just to name two details. Blatant inaccuracy.
Not maxing out 401k contribution. All numbers contain this magical wizardry of ending in even zeros.
Everything else is inflated and you can blame yourself. No one NEEDS to drive a Nazi sled (BMW). 
Take a hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why you’re so god damned stupid and why you pay $18k ito charity and bitch about your situation.
My personal favorite: Source financialsamurai.com - Some hack bullshit website that drives click bait just like this dickless article.
The only saving grace is that they have life insurance so if the parents get hit by a bus, they’ll have a shot at being raised by someone intelligent.

Quality rant.

[52-80 19150]

1 minute ago, DaggerHorns said:

Articles like this make me want to blow my fucking brains out.

 

bro, the spreadsheet is labeled 'how to feel average'

this lifestyle is average.  violin lessons, donating annually to alma mater, 3 annual vacations, and 10k of miscellaneous (not discretionary) spending is average.  stop giving average people a hard time

[Okie State 3818]

I'd immediately cut at least one car, charity, clothing budget, vacation budget. That frees up what? $40K?...without having to make a single difficult decision. Could easily cut even deeper than that. Struggling my ass.

 

Hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt and you're giving away $18K a year to charity. Hilarious.

 

 

[Okie State 3818]

Articles like this make me want to blow my fucking brains out.
I like the tax calculation. Just a 40% calculation. No deductions or credits. Just bullshit. Especially with high property taxes and kids just to name two details. Blatant inaccuracy.
Not maxing out 401k contribution. All numbers contain this magical wizardry of ending in even zeros.
Everything else is inflated and you can blame yourself. No one NEEDS to drive a Nazi sled (BMW). 
Take a hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why you’re so god damned stupid and why you pay $18k ito charity and bitch about your situation.
My personal favorite: Source financialsamurai.com - Some hack bullshit website that drives click bait just like this dickless article.
The only saving grace is that they have life insurance so if the parents get hit by a bus, they’ll have a shot at being raised by someone intelligent.

The tax calculations kill me. My brother posts shit all the time that shows how people pay absolutely absurd tax rates that are complete horseshit if you understand anything about how our tax system works...which he doesn't.

[Anastasis 23469]

5 hours ago, Archer said:

I was curious what the calculators would tell me I could afford as a home payment. Calculators said I was good with a payment that was 62.5% of my take home. I hope I love the house because I couldn’t afford to do anything else.

 

My current payment is 16.7% of take home and I don’t even like that. 

Very similar number and it makes me very uncomfortable. 62% is so fucking stupid that I am lost for words. That must include maintenance, insurance, and other housing related expenses. 

[Dennis Taylor 18812]

5 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

You have no idea.  Two private school tuition payments is a giant kick in the nuts.  And I'm not getting into the public/private school debate again on here.  Public is a really shitty option where we live (cue the "then move" comment).

How much are you putting away to bribe their way into ucla?

[Okie State 3818]

My mortgage (P&I) currently is 8% of take home. I'll stretch a bit more with our next home because I plan to buy something to live in for 20+ years. I'll also be fully funding my retirement savings, carry no other debt, and have a solid emergency fund to help myself sleep at night.

I have no doubt many of my peers are multiples higher than me on their mortgage to income ratio. No other way they could afford to live in the areas they do. At least without inheritance.

[Helobious 9448]

4 hours ago, Lobo said:

What a strange construct that the places with the highest property taxes (Manhattan, Los Angeles, San Francisco, parts of Chicago and Boston, etc.) have some of the crappiest public schools with a high percentage of upper-middle to uber-wealthy residents paying for private school.  

If public schools just need more money, why is it that the districts with the most money have some of the worst schools.  Or at least, the schools with the most local residents bolting for the private/country day hills?  

I thought schools in places with the wealthy paying their "fair share" would be among the best?  And there's this one other common factor among the families/voters in those places/situations I mentioned above.  Can't think of it off the top of my head, but I think they favor one particular political party.  But yet, their money is there for the school districts to use for highest and best purposes.  Why doesn't it work out?  

Property tax rates are much higher in most parts of Texas than in Manhattan, you fucking clod. 

[Bullneck 19079]

9 hours ago, Sandman said:

Cut the 3 vacations a year down to 1. Also, $800/month for clothes? WTF.

Ha, you try and make it through your third winter up here without heading for Florida or the Caribbean . . .

That $800 a month for clothes probably includes drycleaning.  

It says they live in NYC, so take the price of everything you know and double or triple it.  

12 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Property tax rates are much higher in most parts of Texas than in Manhattan, you fucking clod. 

I would like you to cite your sources.  Really.

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Bullneck

[Helobious 9448]

13 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

I would like you to cite your sources.  Really.

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585/

And do the math on the OP example. They're paying a 1.33% property tax rate. 

[Bullneck 19079]

9 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

My favorite was $12K/year for "Children's Lessons."

That's only $500 a month per kid.  That's not nearly enough money, really, if you expect them to play at Carnegie Hall (OK, just Weill Recital Hall) and play varsity squash in the Ivy League.  

I don't mean to sound like a dick or nothin' but I don't think most on this thread realize how much more competitive it is on the East Coast.  

[Bullneck 19079]

6 minutes ago, Helobious said:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585/

And do the math on the OP example. They're paying a 1.33% property tax rate. 

Quote

51	New Jersey	2.44%	$4,725	$321,100	$7,840
50	Illinois	2.31%	$4,476	$179,700	$4,157
49	New Hampshire	2.20%	$4,257	$244,900	$5,388
48	Connecticut	2.07%	$3,999	$270,100	$5,582
47	Wisconsin	1.94%	$3,756	$169,300	$3,286
45	Texas	1.83%	$3,544	$151,500	$2,775
45	Vermont	1.83%	$3,544	$220,600	$4,040
44	Nebraska	1.80%	$3,485	$142,400	$2,565
43	New York	1.68%	$3,246	$293,000	$4,915

Yeah, there's something wrong with that calculation.  I can't believe NY is that cheap.  We paid close to what they cited in the article and our house is worth much less than $1.5m.  But we're in Jersey, which as you can see, is #1!

Edited March 27, 2019 by Bullneck

[Archer 474]

1 hour ago, Okie State said:

My mortgage (P&I) currently is 8% of take home. I'll stretch a bit more with our next home because I plan to buy something to live in for 20+ years. I'll also be fully funding my retirement savings, carry no other debt, and have a solid emergency fund to help myself sleep at night.

I have no doubt many of my peers are multiples higher than me on their mortgage to income ratio. No other way they could afford to live in the areas they do. At least without inheritance.

My P&I is 8-10% and taxes and insurance 6-8%. 

I have friends looking at 7 figure homes. They are a couple years older but I couldn’t imagine stretching that far. Honestly if I could find a  way to downsize and still get most of my boxes checked I’d do it in a heartbeat. I’ve quit viewing houses as an investment and see them as an expense with a very illiquid exit option. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Archer

[Okie State 3818]

My P&I is 8-10% and taxes and insurance 6-8%. 
I have friends looking at 7 figure homes. They are a couple years older but I couldn’t imagine stretching that far. Honestly if I could find a  way to downsize and still get most of my boxes checked I’d do it in a heartbeat. I’ve quit viewing houses as an investment and see them as an expense with a very illiquid exit option. 

Mine is also around 16% if I add in insurance and taxes. I'd feel okay being higher than where I am, but nowhere close to what most people take on.

[fattyflattie 4639]

What is the advised range?  I'm sitting around 17% all in, and that's comfortable (although tax season every year sucks).  But I agree, I have peers that are blowing me way out the water.  Banking on that inheritance I guess.  I did skip the whole "first" house deal and went straight into my second.   

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

11 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

My favorite was $12K/year for "Children's Lessons."

2 kids going to something like Kumon for 2 subjects (math & reading) is around $600/month. Add in sports (baseball, soccer, & basketball or something), then maybe gymnastics, dance, or piano lessons and that could easily get to $1000/month. Kids are just expensive. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

11 hours ago, Sandman said:

Cut the 3 vacations a year down to 1. Also, $800/month for clothes? WTF.

Do I really need to answer this question for you?

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

My P&I is 8-10% and taxes and insurance 6-8%. 

I have friends looking at 7 figure homes. They are a couple years older but I couldn’t imagine stretching that far. Honestly if I could find a  way to downsize and still get most of my boxes checked I’d do it in a heartbeat. I’ve quit viewing houses as an investment and see them as an expense with a very illiquid exit option. 

One great thing about super low property taxes (0.6% roughly) and low insurance premiums (little severe weather and low crime area) is that more of my PITI can go towards the P&I, so the range of house price goes up. $300 a month in gas instead ofvtheir $5000 is nice too. 

Too bad I don’t make their $500k, I could live like a king out here. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

2 hours ago, Helobious said:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585/

And do the math on the OP example. They're paying a 1.33% property tax rate. 

For this debate, it would make more sense to calculate the property tax rate as a percentage of income.  This article is s few years old (data must be from the peak of the ND oil boom lulz) , but I think it takes a more realistic view of the income discrepancy between states:

https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/10/05/which-states-residents-have-the-most-cash-to-spend.aspx

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

if you ffwd with this couple, their incomes should rise over time which should reduce the pain of the mortgage and school loans. The real killer is when they want their kids to attend expensive schools. That seems like that can hard hit the pocketbooks of someone earning 1m, even discounting admission bribes. Then they finally get 10-15 years of relatively child free expenses , perhaps a paid off house and then retire.  Fun.

and when someone complains that they spend too much in clothes or nice cars, that can practically be required for some jobs. You take a client out to lunch, you can’t roll up in $250k car but it has to be nice and new-ish. Show up in your old college beater thinking you are highlighting your personal finance frugality. You look like crap. That affects promotions and income.

if your boss has Benz s class, you should get an e class. Buy a used Hyundai and you get weird looks.  I saw this in some consulting companies. They’re paying you a lot of money and you need to act and look the part.  Doesn’t mean to have to spend every dime on clothes/cars but you can’t spend $0.

[Archer 474]

8 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

What is the advised range?  I'm sitting around 17% all in, and that's comfortable (although tax season every year sucks).  But I agree, I have peers that are blowing me way out the water.  Banking on that inheritance I guess.  I did skip the whole "first" house deal and went straight into my second.   

28% of gross income for housing and 36% of gross income for total debt payments. 

 

Gross is the kicker here, if you’re making $100,000 it’s saying you can afford $2,333/month in housing ($28,000/12). I could see the 28/36 numbers being semi reasonable calculated off of a net income  .

My mortgage is my only debt so the calculators run up my possible payment to the 36% of gross which equates to 62% of my take home. Even using the reduced 28% rule it’s still whacking 49% of my take home. 🤯🤮

Edited March 27, 2019 by Archer

[Okie State 3818]

A lot of ways to justify what they're spending. The point is, at least to me, they're not 'average'. Not even close.

[Okie State 3818]

28% of gross income for housing and 36% of gross income for total debt payments. 
My mortgage is my only debt so the calculators run up my possible payment to the 36% of gross which equates to 62% of my take home. Even using the reduced 28% rule it’s still whacking 49% of my take home. 

I don't understand why anything is calculated off of gross. If you're not taking it home, how is it relevant income?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

Just now, Okie State said:

A lot of ways to justify what they're spending. The point is, at least to me, they're not 'average'. Not even close.

They’re average in the sense that they pretty much spend what they earn.  Most people end up in that spot if not worse.  They’re better than average in that a fair amount of their expenses are discretionary. 

[Archer 474]

3 minutes ago, Okie State said:

9 minutes ago, Archer said:

28% of gross income for housing and 36% of gross income for total debt payments. 
My mortgage is my only debt so the calculators run up my possible payment to the 36% of gross which equates to 62% of my take home. Even using the reduced 28% rule it’s still whacking 49% of my take home. 

I don't understand why anything is calculated off of gross. If you're not taking it home, how is it relevant income?

I agree completely and edited to add the same thing while you were responding. 

[Okie State 3818]

They’re average in the sense that they pretty much spend what they earn.  Most people end up in that spot if not worse.  They’re better than average in that a fair amount of their expenses are discretionary. 

In my world, average people make sacrifices. I'm not seeing much, if anything, being sacrificed in that budget.

[Parliament 14255]

My coworkers and (most of) my family is what i call "comfortably middle-class".  Not quite upper-middle, but have enough income to avoid any financial problem other than bad health issues.  I'd say almost half could miss one paycheck without drama and that's it.  Retirement savings are the minimum they need to get company match, and whatever their employer does match.  That adds up to 10-12% or so.  Saving at that level will just barely be enough to be safe when you retire, IMO.

Living expense creep is a real thing.  Get a raise and all the sudden your 10 year old boat isn't enough.  Your 3 year old car, with 2 years left on the load is too old.  Disney World?  Yeah we gotta take the kids to Disney.

[next2naus 439]

20 hours ago, Augustus said:

They're spending habits could be a bit more responsible, but goddamn a 40% tax rate is fucking obscene.  

And FTR I earn nowhere near what they do so I'm not commiserating.

It's a blended rate that factors in State and City tax. It's brutal up here. That's basically my budget

[SydneyCarton 48078]

Some of y'all definitely made different and more frugal housing decisions than we did. If we're talking net take home, our mortgage is a solid 40% our our monthly cash. Of course, we live in Houston and refused to have 90 minute commutes apiece a day, so obviously we made some priority decisions regarding that purchase and use of our income. But I remind my wife of this regularly when she starts talking about new cars and wanting to have me get rid of my 15 year old nissan. It still fucking runs fine, goddamnit. 

I'm about to turn 40, and the savings for retirement (or lack thereof) certainly keeps me up at nights. The good news is that we have a plan, the bad news is that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. 

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

30 minutes ago, Okie State said:

47 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

They’re average in the sense that they pretty much spend what they earn.  Most people end up in that spot if not worse.  They’re better than average in that a fair amount of their expenses are discretionary. 

In my world, average people make sacrifices. I'm not seeing much, if anything, being sacrificed in that budget.

 

Depends on what ones definition of "making sacrifices" is. 

Also that isn't a budget. That's "here is everything we pay for on a monthly basis". 

It's a good starting point but they could find a lot of fat to trim if they really wanted to save more, reduce debt, create a emergency fund, etc. 

[Okie State 3818]

Some of y'all definitely made different and more frugal housing decisions than we did. If we're talking net take home, our mortgage is a solid 40% our our monthly cash. Of course, we live in Houston and refused to have 90 minute commutes apiece a day, so obviously we made some priority decisions regarding that purchase and use of our income. But I remind my wife of this regularly when she starts talking about new cars and wanting to have me get rid of my 15 year old nissan. It still fucking runs fine, goddamnit. 
I'm about to turn 40, and the savings for retirement (or lack thereof) certainly keeps me up at nights. The good news is that we have a plan, the bad news is that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. 

This seems to be pretty normal around my office. I'd love to live closer to work, but not sure I could stomach the mortgage and sacrifice our retirement savings. I assume most of them have very healthy dual incomes as well though so it's not a direct comparison to my situation.

[Okie State 3818]

 
Depends on what ones definition of "making sacrifices" is. 
Also that isn't a budget. That's "here is everything we pay for on a monthly basis". 
It's a good starting point but they could find a lot of fat to trim if they really wanted to save more, reduce debt, create a emergency fund, etc. 

Pretty much your last sentence is what I'm referring to. Not talking about eating beans and rice for dinner, but making smart decisions to manage your money and accomplish goals. They clearly don't care about those things too much.

[SydneyCarton 48078]

1 minute ago, Okie State said:

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Some of y'all definitely made different and more frugal housing decisions than we did. If we're talking net take home, our mortgage is a solid 40% our our monthly cash. Of course, we live in Houston and refused to have 90 minute commutes apiece a day, so obviously we made some priority decisions regarding that purchase and use of our income. But I remind my wife of this regularly when she starts talking about new cars and wanting to have me get rid of my 15 year old nissan. It still fucking runs fine, goddamnit. 
I'm about to turn 40, and the savings for retirement (or lack thereof) certainly keeps me up at nights. The good news is that we have a plan, the bad news is that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. 

This seems to be pretty normal around my office. I'd love to live closer to work, but not sure I could stomach the mortgage and sacrifice our retirement savings. I assume most of them have very healthy dual incomes as well though so it's not a direct comparison to my situation.

Yeah, we were the opposite. We were a few months pregnant when we closed and this house and had been looking pretty seriously, and we couldn't stomach the idea of some of us getting home just in time to see the little guy go to bed. But the beating we take on our monthly income is definitely real. The good news is our home has appreciated considerably already, the bad news is that after elementary, the schools around here suck balls. And that's why we play the lottery!

[Okie State 3818]

Yeah, we were the opposite. We were a few months pregnant when we closed and this house and had been looking pretty seriously, and we couldn't stomach the idea of some of us getting home just in time to see the little guy go to bed. But the beating we take on our monthly income is definitely real. The good news is our home has appreciated considerably already, the bad news is that after elementary, the schools around here suck balls. And that's why we play the lottery!

Yes, the schools are a huge part of it too for us.

[Brew 3049]

If everyone lives like they did in their 20’s, there would be no savings related issues. However, income goes up, expenses go up. Decide to have kids, and in today’s world it’s a competition to keep them as involved and educated as possible which isn’t cheap. Ours aren’t overly involved and we still spend more on them than some people that work for us make. Health insurance, private school, 529’s, sports, music, etc add up quickly.

I’m happy I live where I live every time I see this kind of article. I may not have all the culture of NYC around, but I’ll make sure to ponder on that while at the lake or beach or wherever we may be.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

1 hour ago, Okie State said:

1 hour ago, Archer said:

28% of gross income for housing and 36% of gross income for total debt payments. 
My mortgage is my only debt so the calculators run up my possible payment to the 36% of gross which equates to 62% of my take home. Even using the reduced 28% rule it’s still whacking 49% of my take home. 

I don't understand why anything is calculated off of gross. If you're not taking it home, how is it relevant income?

I think they calculate off gross because take-home can vary wildly depending on how much you put in 401K, health savings account, employee stock options etc.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

44 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 If we're talking net take home, our mortgage is a solid 40% our our monthly cash.

I couldn't sleep at night knowing this. You seem like 1 bad day / 1 market turn away from having your shit pushed in.

[BrickHorn 18219]

So the shocking conclusion is that, even if you earn a high salary, it’s hard to save money when you spend all of your discretionary income on luxury items and charity?  Mind.  Blown.

[Brew 3049]

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

So the shocking conclusion is that, even if you earn a high salary, it’s hard to save money when you spend all of your discretionary income on luxury items and charity?  Mind.  Blown.

Some people consider charity more than a discretionary expense. Personally, I’m going to give even if it cuts into my savings some years.

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

11 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

So the shocking conclusion is that, even if you earn a high salary, it’s hard to save money when you spend all of your discretionary income on luxury items and charity?  Mind.  Blown.

 

It sounds silly to say but there are tons of people/couples/families at all income levels that are spending more money then they should on shit they don't need and aren't saving enough. Water is wet. 

The funny/sad part it wouldn't be hard for anyone at almost any income level to cut their spending to save more but yeah America. 

[TornACL 7698]

Welcome to the new normal, where the way to get clicks and discussion going is to smear absolute shit all over the walls. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

1 hour ago, Okie State said:

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

They’re average in the sense that they pretty much spend what they earn.  Most people end up in that spot if not worse.  They’re better than average in that a fair amount of their expenses are discretionary. 

In my world, average people make sacrifices. I'm not seeing much, if anything, being sacrificed in that budget.

to be clear, I wasn't saying that a couple earning 500K was average, I was saying their behavior is average. And yes, people with less income can't spend money like someone with a lot more. A 500K couple doesn't have to make sacrifices that a 60K couple has to make.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

Living expense creep is a real thing.  Get a raise and all the sudden your 10 year old boat isn't enough.  Your 3 year old car, with 2 years left on the load is too old.  Disney World?  Yeah we gotta take the kids to Disney.

I don't see how someone middle-class affords a boat and trips to Disney. Both have to eat up a fair percentage of the annual salary.  Or at least the boat did at some point.

[troph 24783]

I think the right answer is figure out how to work part time in a way you at least enjoy somewhat until your older - retirement business or gig economy or whatever.  it preserves your savings and probably prolongs your life.  save what you can along the way but the idea of having $2-5m in the bank earning 5-7% and living off of that for 20+ years is an unobtainable dream for most.  then when you really can't work you're probably within 5-10 years of dying and while this will sound morbid, at the beginning of the real end - hospital stays, etc. we should be allowed to say eff it, I'm out of here and take a lethal dose of some drug that makes you feel really happy on your way out and call it a good life.  with that plan you can probably "retire" with $500,000 to $1,000,000 which still requires savings but that's infinitely more doable than a couple mil. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

if you ffwd with this couple, their incomes should rise over time which should reduce the pain of the mortgage and school loans. The real killer is when they want their kids to attend expensive schools. That seems like that can hard hit the pocketbooks of someone earning 1m, even discounting admission bribes. Then they finally get 10-15 years of relatively child free expenses , perhaps a paid off house and then retire.  Fun.

and when someone complains that they spend too much in clothes or nice cars, that can practically be required for some jobs. You take a client out to lunch, you can’t roll up in $250k car but it has to be nice and new-ish. Show up in your old college beater thinking you are highlighting your personal finance frugality. You look like crap. That affects promotions and income.

if your boss has Benz s class, you should get an e class. Buy a used Hyundai and you get weird looks.  I saw this in some consulting companies. They’re paying you a lot of money and you need to act and look the part.  Doesn’t mean to have to spend every dime on clothes/cars but you can’t spend $0.

I get your point about them possibly needing nice rides, but there are smarter ways to do this. They can buy a new car every 4 years when their newer car is paid off, leaving them with never having more than one car payment. I know a few couples who do exactly that. They can also buy 1 or 2 year old used cars and still have very nice vehicles. A friend of mine owns a used car lot, and he located a <1 year old, high-end Suburban (with 5,000-something miles on it) in another state for another friend of mine, saving him $35,000 off MSRP. All the guy had to do was fly a few hundred miles to pick it up, then drive it back. There are lots of semi-creative ways to be car frugal.