The Struggle is Real

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I agree that your parents' route was smarter, but who's to say the other couple didn't consciously decide that they wanted to spend and travel while younger and are ok with their decision.

Not sure what you mean by the other couple aren't having the retirement they should.  I'm turning 50 this year, and I hope to keep working until I die. I don't mean that I want to be grinding out a 60 work week when I'm 65, but sitting home, playing golf and fishing every day sounds boring. I've seen some people fall into a bottle for a long time when faced with nothing but leisure. And I don't mean in a fun way but causing a lot of damage.

 

I hear you and a valid point. It was more in response to Okie State about wondering where he was at vs. others. Absolutely if someone wants to live balls out paycheck to paycheck and work until they are 80+ well good for them, not the route that I would go but to each their own. 

I have seen the other side of things when people have no money left are on Medicaid and can't do a damn thing but lay around and wait to die. It ain't pretty. But to each their own. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

10 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Yeah, I want to be financially secure when I’m older. But traveling/vacations sound pretty lame when you’re old and past your prime. I’d much rather do that stuff as a young person.

Not me. I'm going to be that old fucker that boards first on the plane and takes 30 minutes to find his seat. Fuck you people, I've got nowhere to be and all day to get there.

[Bill Lumbergh 7177]

Yeah, I want to be financially secure when I’m older. But traveling/vacations sound pretty lame when you’re old and past your prime. I’d much rather do that stuff as a young person.

All things in moderation.

We've vacationed quite a bit as a young married couple exactly for the reason you mention. We think we'll enjoy places like Positano more while we're younger and climbing that many stairs is easier on the knees.

We also bought a house well under what we could afford and resisted the urge to upgrade houses when most of our friends did several years ago so that we can fund our trips and still save enough to travel in retirement.

In other words, why not both?

[Armybrat 40863]

21 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Yeah, I want to be financially secure when I’m older. But traveling/vacations sound pretty lame when you’re old and past your prime. I’d much rather do that stuff as a young person.

I’ll agree with you there. Our month long trip to England & France was cut short last summer when Mrs. Brat fell down some stairs in the crypt at St. Paul’s, breaking her wrist and severely bruising her legs so she could not walk. That was on our first full day, and we had to come home after a total of 6 days in London so she could have surgery done in Round Rock. Pushing her around London in a wheelchair for three days after she recovered enough proved to be quite a chore for me. At least my impending heart attack had the decency to wait until January to strike. Lulz.

However, we shall return in the spring of next year to finish what we started. If I am still alive and able.

[Bill Lumbergh 7177]

What is great about this thread is everyone else is a moron, and most posters are sure that they do it right. What’s especially hilarious to me is those that are critical of people that buy expensive homes or whole life. 

I don't think anyone is wrong, but I do think everyone should own the consequences of the things they choose to prioritize with money.

Choose where to invest based on what you value most and accept the benefits and trade offs of those choices.

Or, if you think you shouldn't have to sacrifice anywhere, spend yourself into debt and run yourself into the ground trying to make it work because you think you deserve more than you can afford. Just own the consequences of how you spend and don't blame anyone or anything else for where you end up.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

21 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I’ll agree with you there. Our month long trip to England & France was cut short last summer when Mrs. Brat fell down some stairs in the crypt at St. Paul’s, breaking her wrist and severely bruising her legs so she could not walk. That was on our first full day, and we had to come home after a total of 6 days in London so she could have surgery done in Round Rock. Pushing her around London in a wheelchair for three days after she recovered enough proved to be quite a chore for me. At least my impending heart attack had the decency to wait until January to strike. Lulz.

However, we shall return in the spring of next year to finish what we started. If I am still alive and able.

"Fell". That's your story, stick to it man.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

What is great about this thread is everyone else is a moron, and most posters are sure that they do it right. What’s especially hilarious to me is those that are critical of people that buy expensive homes or whole life. 

[Skipper 6179]

Seems appropriate for this thread:  I leased my first house once we upgraded a few years back.  My renters are older with kids in HS (JR and FR).  They pay expensive private school tuition (public schools are not bad) and the oldest kid now drives a new BMW.  I don't really care as long as the checks cash, to each their own, but I can't fathom making those financial decisions.

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

40 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

What is great about this thread is everyone else is a moron, and most posters are sure that they do it right. What’s especially hilarious to me is those that are critical of people that buy expensive homes or whole life. 

 

Shaggy 1%ers (give or take)? Sure they are valid options

Everyone else- WAY WAY WAY down the list of things they should be looking at. 

 

Bottom line there is no perfect solution for everyone, it depends on their situation. 

[G650 14273]

51 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

What is great about this thread is everyone else is a moron

If the shoe fits.

[Armybrat 40863]

49 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

"Fell". That's your story, stick to it man.

I got witnesses. 😎

[Okie State 3824]

Sure. But, what kills me is the soapboxes of sanctimony people get on here. If I could give advice to anyone in their mid 20s making $100K a year, it would be to buy as much home as they can afford, and probably then some, in the best neighborhood possible. Many here seem to have an attitude counter to that. 

That may be true, but many of the neighborhoods referenced on this board frequently are $1MM+ homes. No amount of stretching is getting me into that much house and our household income is well over $100K. Trust me I despise my commute and the suburbs in general. I've looked and would love to move further in, but there are always barriers to getting into those neighborhoods whether it be price or school zone or whatever. 

Besides, why would anyone who can afford to live inside the loop give two shits about what plebes in the suburbs think?

 

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

The key is finding the neighborhood in 200s that will be in the 500s within 10 years. Those don’t exist in the burbs. And you may have to accept some inconveniences for a while.  That’s what the 25-30 yr old should be looking to buy.

[Okie State 3824]

The key is finding the neighborhood in 200s that will be in the 500s within 10 years. Those don’t exist in the burbs. And you may have to accept some inconveniences for a while.  That’s what the 25-30 yr old should be looking to buy.

Well fuck me then, right? Missed the boat.

[G650 14273]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Sure. But, what kills me is the soapboxes of sanctimony people get on here. If I could give advice to anyone in their mid 20s making $100K a year, it would be to buy as much home as they can afford, and probably then some, in the best neighborhood possible. Many here seem to have an attitude counter to that. 

That's such a microscopic part of the problem its basically irrelevant  

[ABSR 5321]

On 3/26/2019 at 12:02 PM, Cheeseweasel said:

Who pays a 40% effective tax rate? 

That is Federal plus NY state taxes.  

[fattyflattie 4638]

On 3/28/2019 at 10:48 AM, Vito Andolini said:

Yep. And if you want something in Vancouver, $1M buys you a dump.

Yeah, and I understand finding internet is a real bitch up there. 

[troph 24902]

What is great about this thread is everyone else is a moron, and most posters are sure that they do it right. What’s especially hilarious to me is those that are critical of people that buy expensive homes or whole life. 

I was already thinking about saying who knows? I sure as heck don’t. I was way ahead of the curve in 2007 when I left the big firm, flipped a micro business into a legit small business and two years ago shoulda retired. At that time (2007) I had 5-10x what my peers had in terms of my balance sheet and none in a 401k - all of it in 2-3 pieces of real estate and a small company. The financial crisis wiped it all away. I went negative in 18 months from late 2007 to January 2009. Interviewed bankruptcy lawyers but couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger in 2010. Didn’t recover until 2016. Then divorce in 2017 and only just now getting past paying my ex a lot of money. My 401k stinks, it’s atrocious. I max it out now but my ability to have a 401k retirement is done - won’t happen, can’t happen. Best I can do if I max out and the market does ok is $600k or so based on the last time I ran the numbers. So now I’m stuck on an alt plan. My net worth has come back to what it was in 2007 which is nice given what I’ve been through. I’ve got alt investments in about 10 companies, 3 are sizable, 2 cash flow. 3-4 died. 2-3 are meh. I threw some money at a real estate deal this past year that should do well. I started another small company that could gen up some cash flow by next year. I own my law firm but who the hell knows. I keep swinging for the fences. Took a hot damn contingency case last week, should be awesome or a complete drain of my time. Got a software company that wants me to help them for equity and I kinda like them. And you know what? It could all work out or I could be that one waiting around to die in 35-40 years. Man I don’t know. I’m smart but am I lucky? I guess I’m just not cut out for the boring life of work save, work save. I invest, a lot, but it’s all risky stuff. And I might strike out. I think anyone that has it figured out, is just trying to convince themselves they are ok. For me anyway I lay awake at night wondering if I’ll be ok and if I’m making stupid decisions. The only thing I know is i don’t know enough.

[DaysOff 7966]

The best financial decision you can make is not getting divorced and giving her half your shit.

[Brew 3049]

12 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Sure. But, what kills me is the soapboxes of sanctimony people get on here. If I could give advice to anyone in their mid 20s making $100K a year, it would be to buy as much home as they can afford, and probably then some, in the best neighborhood possible. Many here seem to have an attitude counter to that. 

100% dependent on where you live but still not great advice in my view. My house isn’t worth a whole lot more than what I paid for it 10 years ago. The market here hasn’t changed, new houses are being built everywhere, so the built houses stay pretty flat. However, even in an appreciating market I would still advise a 20 something making $100k to max out their 401k, expand their social networks, travel some and enjoy life, but live cheap and bank as much as possible during those years because accumulating stuff is not worth it.

[Reagan1k 3024]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

  12 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The key is finding the neighborhood in 200s that will be in the 500s within 10 years. Those don’t exist in the burbs. And you may have to accept some inconveniences for a while.  That’s what the 25-30 yr old should be looking to buy.

That’s probably great advice for a tiny fraction of the population but in my opinion there are precious few of those markets.  

Most Americans live in areas where there are no neighborhoods that will appreciate at that +10% per year clip so that’s not even on the table.  

Save early, save often, and live below below your means may be boring advice, but for the vast majority of workers it is the only game in town. 

[troph 24902]

The best financial decision you can make is not getting divorced and giving her half your shit.

Very very true. Except my emotional well being and her need for a man made that decision to stay together impossible. I did put pen to paper to calculate the actual cost. It was a fml moment.

[Brew 3049]

2 hours ago, DaysOff said:

The best financial decision you can make is not getting divorced and giving her half your shit.

Based solely on the math, the best financial decision is don’t get married followed up closely by don’t have kids.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

47 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

That’s probably great advice for a tiny fraction of the population but in my opinion there are precious few of those markets.  

Most Americans live in areas where there are no neighborhoods that will appreciate at that +10% per year clip so that’s not even on the table.  

Save early, save often, and live below below your means may be boring advice, but for the vast majority of workers it is the only game in town. 

I agree my 200 to 500 in 10 years is rare.  But good appreciation isn’t hard to find. We all can easily identify parts of any prosperous city that are in the early stages of gentrification. You see a couple new or highly renovated homes next to dumps.  Buy one of the better dumps.  I don’t mean live in a former crack house but something that can be easily remodeled or perhaps a future tear down.

basically this is the strategy of delayed gratification. Don’t go for the brand new home with the latest style and amenities. Go with the older, outdated model that will be worth a lot more in 5-10 years. Not that I did this, but do that 2-3x over 15 years and you might end up with a large amount of cash.

now if you have a family this model may not work as schools might be horrible and the wife is overly worried about safety.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Nice Guy Eddie

[troph 24902]

Based solely on the math, the best financial decision is don’t get married followed up closely by don’t have kids.

That’s true to unless your spouse makes money doesn’t spend it but totally true re kids omfg. #solelyonthemath

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

13 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The key is finding the neighborhood in 200s that will be in the 500s within 10 years. Those don’t exist in the burbs. And you may have to accept some inconveniences for a while.  That’s what the 25-30 yr old should be looking to buy.

I don’t know.  I thought it was selling half your company for 50M right before you hit 40.  These people are doing it all wrong.  

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

I came here for the “my wife is spending so much I will never retire” posts. Disappointed.

[troph 24902]

It’s your own damned fault.

[G650 14273]

15 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Sure. But, what kills me is the soapboxes of sanctimony people get on here. 

 

3 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Yep

 

 

 

Lol.

[G650 14273]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I don’t know.  I thought it was selling half your company for 50M right before you hit 40.  These people are doing it all wrong.  

Or marry a rich daughter.

[Js1 85477]

22 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

sitting home, playing golf and fishing every day sounds boring

That sounds like hell, seriously. 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

Kinda curious about this because I don't know jack shit about money. My buddy's dad died a couple years ago and left my buddy's mom around a million liquid. I have wondered why he hasn't talked to a financial person because she just put it in her savings account at the local bank. 

No debt, house is paid for, a simple, small town life with no desire to spend money on anything besides gifts for her 1 grandkid. Isn't she really just throwing money away instead of putting into some low risk investment? What that is, I wouldn't have a clue, but it seems like it could be making her a little more than a savings account, without much, if any risk. 

I'm not going to stick my nose in someone else's business, but it seems really dumb to me. Then again, I ain't two bright myself. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

46 minutes ago, G650 said:

Or marry a rich daughter.

Had a buddy or two go that route.  In their cases dealing with the Dad has made it pure hell.  Lol

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

40 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Kinda curious about this because I don't know jack shit about money. My buddy's dad died a couple years ago and left my buddy's mom around a million liquid. I have wondered why he hasn't talked to a financial person because she just put it in her savings account at the local bank. 

No debt, house is paid for, a simple, small town life with no desire to spend money on anything besides gifts for her 1 grandkid. Isn't she really just throwing money away instead of putting into some low risk investment? What that is, I wouldn't have a clue, but it seems like it could be making her a little more than a savings account, without much, if any risk. 

I'm not going to stick my nose in someone else's business, but it seems really dumb to me. Then again, I ain't two bright myself. 

Yes at least put it in muni bonds.  That is kind of stupid.  

But the bank might be paying points.  Goldman paying over 2% on their checking right now but you need 10M minimum invested.  That’s different but small town banks may do it for less.  

[Pato del Muerto 52553]

1MM in one savings account is about the dumbest thing you can do with it. Only a quarter of it is insured. At least put 250k in accounts at 4 banks. 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

8 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

1MM in one savings account is about the dumbest thing you can do with it. Only a quarter of it is insured. At least put 250k in accounts at 4 banks. 

Wondered that myself. I thought it was 100K insured back in the day, but didn't know what it was now. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

12 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

1MM in one savings account is about the dumbest thing you can do with it. Only a quarter of it is insured. At least put 250k in accounts at 4 banks. 

I was going to mention this but we’ve got MUCH bigger problems if it comes to that.  

[Pato del Muerto 52553]

6 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I was going to mention this but we’ve got MUCH bigger problems if it comes to that.  

Local bank, as stated in that post, to me means some small town small bank that might just go belly up on its own and not be indicative of a financial collapse. 

[troph 24902]

Local bank, as stated in that post, to me means some small town small bank that might just go belly up on its own and not be indicative of a financial collapse. 

And FDIC insurance was triggered in the financial crisis. World didn’t end, it felt like it and if you weren’t insured it may have ended but only for you. Expecting cash deposit safety but not having it by staying below the insurance limit is dumb dumb dumb.

[Pato del Muerto 52553]

My late FIL didn’t like risk, and liked insured money. When he died, his kids had to find the myriad savings accounts and CDs that he had all over the place. He had a couple million spread out among many vehicles, all of which were fully insured and had guaranteed rates of return. 

He grew up during the depression, so not having the money disappear overnight was always his first priority.  So he was always hunting good savings rates and cd rates and would move money around often, but only in zero risk. 

[troph 24902]

My exwife’s grand parents are like that too

 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

42 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Local bank, as stated in that post, to me means some small town small bank that might just go belly up on its own and not be indicative of a financial collapse. 

Yes I suppose but I’d still be shocked to see even a small bank have those issues.  

Either way, letting it just sit there is stupid.  And someone smart enough to mitigate the risk by going 250k in four different accounts would be smart enough to invest that money - at the least in CD’s etc.  

Edited March 30, 2019 by ChiTownDoc

[immamac 42890]

17 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Sure. But, what kills me is the soapboxes of sanctimony people get on here. If I could give advice to anyone in their mid 20s making $100K a year, it would be to buy as much home as they can afford, and probably then some, in the best neighborhood possible. Many here seem to have an attitude counter to that. 

This is what I did and it's worked out really well for me. Even though I don't live in the house anymore it's got a positive cash flow monthly and is an incredible appreciating asset that anchors my portfolio. Working on getting the rest of my life in order and breaking my wife from her families legacy of living hand to mouth with high income and a huge inheritance to fall back on. We aren't planning for any type of windfall and I hope we don't get one from either side. I'm very happy with our new home and I think we got really lucky on timing from an investment standpoint the bummer is I don't know if I'll be able to mentally justify staying here since I very much view all property as investment. Once it appreciates enough and then slows down on the theoretical return it'll definitely suck to not be able to put that equity to work in a better way. 

I'll echo something though I don't know how people do 45% DTI houses that's insanity unless you live off of ramen and don't need a car or something. People treating houses like their 401k. 

 

Things I would probably do over are definitely car payments and how evil they are.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

18 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Sure. But, what kills me is the soapboxes of sanctimony people get on here. If I could give advice to anyone in their mid 20s making $100K a year, it would be to buy as much home as they can afford, and probably then some, in the best neighborhood possible. Many here seem to have an attitude counter to that. 

Maybe because that wouldn’t work out in many areas of the country.  This is weird, but it’s kind of different for everyone.  

[troph 24902]

First, insurance has been around since 1933. Second, it has expanded over time, which is totally logical. Third, expecting that safety by staying at or below the limit is smart smart smart. 

I messed up my statement. I meant expecting safety of cash deposits but not staying below the insurance threshold is dumb. Folks who say it’s not something that can happen or if it does we have bigger problems haven’t been paying attention. Can you imagine losing half your money in a CD bc you had $500k at one bank. Wow.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Appreciation is not hard to find at all, with the exception of people in dying towns that can’t mobilize. $200K to $500K is abnormal, but $400K to $500K is not. The key is not to move to Prosper, but instead buy in the M Streets, Lakewood or Briarwood. 

I know many people in Houston suburbs that see appreciation in low single digits. There are exceptions but that is usually due to unexpected external factors like a major employer(s) moving into the area.  The Woodlands is a great example. Otherwise large appreciation is mainly in central Houston.

[Okie State 3824]

I'd be interested in a list of neighborhoods in Houston where a young family can get in for less than $500K with good schools and wasn't a lake during Harvey. Not being a smartass... genuinely curious so I can add them to our list.

 

Oh, and isn't a huge piece of shit that needs a full gut remodel.

[G650 14273]

4 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

My late FIL didn’t like risk, and liked insured money. When he died, his kids had to find the myriad savings accounts and CDs that he had all over the place. He had a couple million spread out among many vehicles, all of which were fully insured and had guaranteed rates of return. 

He grew up during the depression, so not having the money disappear overnight was always his first priority.  So he was always hunting good savings rates and cd rates and would move money around often, but only in zero risk. 

At that point, bury it in the fucking backyard. Which funny enough, a friends dad did, in silver bars.

[Brew 3049]

4 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Appreciation is not hard to find at all, with the exception of people in dying towns that can’t mobilize. $200K to $500K is abnormal, but $400K to $500K is not. The key is not to move to Prosper, but instead buy in the M Streets, Lakewood or Briarwood. 

I’m not sure where you live, but you are clearly not familiar with a large swath of America. You are speaking specifically about metro areas and/or places that are boxed in with no additional land to build on inside of the area where most people want/need to live. That only applies to very specific markets as mentioned in numerous posts. The only factor that matters is land availability and people’s lack of desire to commute and that’s not a problem in a significant portion of the US. Those people aren’t going to get double digit growth no matter how great the City is.

We also made it through 2007/2008 with very little loss of value.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Brew

[Pato del Muerto 52553]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

At that point, bury it in the fucking backyard. Which funny enough, a friends dad did, in silver bars.

Well he did get his 3-5% most years. That’s not nothing.