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Vice President tells NASA to get to the Moon in 5 years.

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https://www.technologyreview.com/the-download/

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Vice President Mike Pence issued a challenge to NASA today to get back to the moon within five years.

We choose to go to the moon (again): Pence made the 2024 declaration at today’s National Space Council meeting. “The National Space Council will send recommendations to the president that will launch a major course correction for NASA, and reignite that spark of urgency that propelled America to the vanguard of space exploration 50 years ago,” he said.

Pole position: Pence said the target for the journey is a landing at the lunar south pole, where deposits of water ice are known to reside. He said the area holds great scientific and strategic value.

What’s it going to take? Some quick work on rockets, and money. Pence urged an acceleration of work on the Space Launch System, which has suffered many delays. As for cash, NASA’s percentage of the federal budget right now is a fraction of what it was during the Apollo years. In 1966 it had nearly 4.5% of the budget. For the next fiscal year it’s currently allocated to have about 0.4%. To realistically make this goal happen, NASA’s numbers will need quite a spike.

https://www.space.com/us-astronauts-moon-return-by-2024.html

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The nation had been shooting for a 2028 lunar touchdown, but "that's just not good enough," Pence said during the fifth meeting of the National Space Council (NSC), which he chairs. "We're better than that."

So, it is now the official policy of the United States to return astronauts to the surface of the moon by 2024, the vice president stressed, invoking a 21st-century space race with China and Russia.

"Urgency must be our watchword," Pence said at the NSC meeting, which was held at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville, Alabama. "The United States must remain first in space in this century as in the last, not just to propel our economy and secure our nation but, above all, because the rules and values of space, like every great frontier, will be written by those who have the courage to get there first and the commitment to stay."

And the United States is indeed committed to stay, Pence added. The nation's next giant leap in space, he said, involves establishing a permanent base on the lunar surface "and developing the technologies to take American astronauts to Mars and beyond."

That base will likely be built near the moon's south pole, which harbors abundant water ice on the floors of permanently shadowed craters. The NSC, which helps steer and streamline the nation's space policy, will recommend today that NASA's next crewed surface mission target that region, Pence said.

The vice president acknowledged the aggressiveness of the 2024 timeline but stressed that it is achievable, citing the successful Apollo 11 moon landing in 1969, just 12 years after the dawn of the space age.

 

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RamjetFDO
RamjetFDO

More to come, I'm sure ... but sneak preview from one of my launch photography buddies.  

RamjetFDO
RamjetFDO

The ones that came on in the 60s/70s were mostly retiring out before the Shuttle Program (and our own ability to launch humans) was ended without a funded follow-on program.  It's the ones that came o

RamjetFDO
RamjetFDO

Yes, we can debate (valid points on both sides) of whether SLS is the right answer for lunar exploration vs private space companies ... but there is no doubt that seeing SLS roll out to LC39B is excit

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90670

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These are some pretty scary statements:

The nation had been shooting for a 2028 lunar touchdown, but "that's just not good enough," Pence said during the fifth meeting of the National Space Council (NSC), which he chairs. "We're better than that."

"Urgency must be our watchword,"

———+

Estimates I’ve seen say $120 billion to do it.  NASA’s budget is what, $20 billion?  And we aren’t even back to launching people into space on our own yet (later this year). 

And there is so much institutional knowledge that’s been lost from folks retiring to being laid off from NASA, who came on in the 60s and 70s. 

Paging @RamjetFDO

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90670

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Holy fuck: 

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Success this time around will require an "all-hands-on-deck approach," which may include the use of commercial rockets if NASA's in-development Space Launch System megarocket isn't ready to go, Pence said. And, he added, "NASA must transform itself into a leaner, more accountable and more agile agency."

Make NASA “leaner”.  

But give it a mission that’s many times more complex than the ISS.  

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RamjetFDO

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14 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

And there is so much institutional knowledge that’s been lost from folks retiring to being laid off from NASA, who came on in the 60s and 70s. 

 

The ones that came on in the 60s/70s were mostly retiring out before the Shuttle Program (and our own ability to launch humans) was ended without a funded follow-on program.  It's the ones that came on in the 80s/90s that were dumped, unceremoniously, when Atlantis came to "Wheels Stop" on STS-135. 

There are a few, including some of my old colleagues, who are still there and more than capable of doing this -- but yes, it's the loss of institutional knowledge (even if it's been documented) and perhaps the ability to train of the next generation of Manned Spaceflight Flight Controllers that may be lost forever. 

It will require YEARS to really build that back.  

"Flying in circles" with ISS has not done the MCC teams any favors.  When you're in a dynamic phase or doing something you've never done before requires a completely different set of skills and experience.  There's a lot of emergency thinking and reaction skills that have been lost... or at least dulled.

I've been critical of the SpaceX teams for taking too lax an attitude in their "MCC".  Once they start flying *people*, a different and more focused approach is going to be required, or people will die (i.e., NO FUCKING GLASS FISHBOWL AND FAWNING/CHEERING FANBOY AUDIENCE).

 

While I love the idea of a nationally-focused Manned Spaceflight Exploration Plan™, the phrase "Urgency must be our watchword," goes against EVERYTHING in the Flight Controller's Creed:

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The Foundations of Mission Operations

  1. To instill within ourselves these qualities essential to professional excellence:
    • DISCIPLINE – Being able to follow as well as to lead, knowing that we must master ourselves before we can master our task.
    • COMPETENCE – There being no substitute for total preparation and complete dedication, for space will not tolerate the careless or indifferent.
    • CONFIDENCE – Believing in ourselves as well as others, knowing that we must master fear and hesitation before we can succeed.
    • RESPONSIBILITY – Realizing that it cannot be shifted to others, for it belongs to each of us; we must answer for what we do — or fail to do.
    • TOUGHNESS – Taking a stand when we must; to try again, even if it means following a more difficult path.
    • TEAMWORK – Respecting and utilizing the abilities of others, realizing that we work toward a common goal, for success depends upon the efforts of all.
  2. To always be aware that suddenly and unexpectedly we may find ourselves in a role where our performance has ultimate consequences.
  3. To recognize that the greatest error is not to have tried and failed, but that in the trying we do not give it our best effort.

 

Pay special attention to #2... "ultimate consequences" means something.  Nowhere in that Creed is the phrase "go faster" found.  In fact, the opposite ("taking a stand when we must") is one of the most vital phrases (and one of the failures in both the Challenger and Columbia accidents).

Getting "GO FEVER" will result in people being killed.  And that could be the end of the US Manned Space Program.

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atomheartbevo

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30 minutes ago, RamjetFDO said:

Getting "GO FEVER" will result in people being killed.  And that could be the end of the US Manned Space Program

This is what scares me.  I’d love to see people on the moon (although I’d rather the resources be put into Mars), but one fuckup that kills people, and that will be it. 

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phdhorn

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Since the first moon landing, the moon has gotten 200 centimeters (78 inches, or a little over 6 1/2 feet) farther from Earth.

I'm sorry, but we just don't have the technology to make up that gap.

Edited by phdhorn
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AUinHsv

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

These are some pretty scary statements:

The nation had been shooting for a 2028 lunar touchdown, but "that's just not good enough," Pence said during the fifth meeting of the National Space Council (NSC), which he chairs. "We're better than that."

"Urgency must be our watchword,"

———+

Estimates I’ve seen say $120 billion to do it.  NASA’s budget is what, $20 billion?  And we aren’t even back to launching people into space on our own yet (later this year). 

And there is so much institutional knowledge that’s been lost from folks retiring to being laid off from NASA, who came on in the 60s and 70s. 

Paging @RamjetFDO

Living here in Huntsville and growing up with other rocket scientist kids - this is absolutely true and a shame. Most of the engineers from Saturn are long gone. Went to an estate sale last week just because it was one of the top German scientists and I wanted to see what was in his house.  To echo ramjets comments - about 20 years ago IBM had a meeting at the space center and a veteran of Apollo and I were looking at the Saturn flight package that IBM built. Guy was part of it and told me it was interesting to work on something that if you screwed up would probably kill a group of astronauts.

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52-80

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52 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

Since the first moon landing, the moon has gotten 200 centimeters (78 inches, or a little over 2 1/2 feet) farther from Earth.

I'm sorry, but we just don't have the technology to make up that gap.

bruh, all you have to do is send someone taller.  duh

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Pato del Muerto

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6 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Pence wants our engineers to ensure that our rockets are the best, very strong....long, hard.  They need great girth.  He can picture them now, erect and throbbing and ready to launch.

Much larger in all aspects than the North Korean rockets and the Russian rockets and the Democrat rockets. Wait...

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1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

Since the first moon landing, the moon has gotten 200 centimeters (78 inches, or a little over 6 1/2 feet) farther from Earth.

I'm sorry, but we just don't have the technology to make up that gap.

Glad you fixed your conversion before we revoke that PhakeHD

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Guest Lobo

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I assume Pence won’t allow any women on the lunar mission during a full moon?  Since he’d technically be with a woman, whom is not his wife, after dark.  

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