Vice President tells NASA to get to the Moon in 5 years.

[miguelito 11513]

21 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

It's going in now. 

Is it in?

[atomheartbevo 90670]

2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

It's going in now. 

2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

It's docked.  

South Austin's mom?

[Captainant 28596]

Reentry is supposed to start around 5:30

It's an on-land landing with an airbag cushion system, always interesting to see a ground landing

[Nice Guy Eddie 13742]

Artemis 1 scheduled for late August trip around the moon and return to earth ~40 days later. Unmanned in preparation for future manned flights.

https://www.space.com/artemis-1-moon-rocket-launch-date-august-2022

 

[atomheartbevo 90670]

13 candidate landing  areas around the South Pole (hoping to find ice)

https://www.space.com/astronauts-moon-landing-artemis-3-candidate-sites

Quote

The agency has identified and will evaluate more than 10 specific landing sites within each region, all of which are within six degrees of latitude of the south pole of the moon.

The constraints NASA has focused on to date have been strictly logistical, including how the site is lit, how easily a team of astronauts can communicate with Earth from the site, and the terrain. And NASA isn't building the vehicle that will ferry astronauts from lunar orbit to the surface, SpaceX's Starship, so the discussions have been held with the company as well as government personnel.

Quote

"This will be the first time we will land a human lander at the south pole, it will be the first landing of the Starship, so we have to pay close attention to the engineering and safety constraints of the mission and the vehicle," Kirasich said.

Moreover, site selection is complicated because NASA can't simply choose a site and move on: None of the 13 regions are constantly accessible, so the mission's launch date will determine where the astronauts can touch down.

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

#teammalapertmassif

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

xposting from nerdz:

 

[bernorange 8386]

Yeah science!

[atomheartbevo 90670]

It is definitely a go, next Monday, the 29th, Artemis 1 is headed to the moon.

https://www.space.com/moon-science-excitement-artemis-program

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

the author is a horn

give him some impressions

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/08/the-sls-rocket-is-the-worst-thing-to-happen-to-nasa-but-maybe-also-the-best/?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=ars&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_mailing=ARS_Rocket_082522&utm_medium=email&bxid=5d892326fc942d478883f557&cndid=&hasha=a33abab8e12a2173469648950b73a000&hashb=584090fb26ed05b8319f8d3b03c5f2e7987b578f&hashc=a2f63589b923906ad50fd1ad1a5b1de97f6960c7dd523e9c23d6988db5716270&esrc=&utm_term=ARS_RocketReport

[Captainant 28596]

8 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the author is a horn

give him some impressions

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/08/the-sls-rocket-is-the-worst-thing-to-happen-to-nasa-but-maybe-also-the-best/?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=ars&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_mailing=ARS_Rocket_082522&utm_medium=email&bxid=5d892326fc942d478883f557&cndid=&hasha=a33abab8e12a2173469648950b73a000&hashb=584090fb26ed05b8319f8d3b03c5f2e7987b578f&hashc=a2f63589b923906ad50fd1ad1a5b1de97f6960c7dd523e9c23d6988db5716270&esrc=&utm_term=ARS_RocketReport

Not just any horn, that's Eric Berger of Space City Weather! Also, I liked some of his turns of phrase lol

"Who doesn't want to watch a huge, Brobdingnagian rocket consume millions of kilograms of fuel and break the surly bonds of Earth's gravity?"

Really excellent article though, and he's got loads of credibility from his own primary sourced interviews in 2009 that had NASA administrators bad talking falcon heavy and talking about SLS as if it were already real. In 2009. I think the whole thing is nicely summed up by his line

"Those who have focused on the "space race" this year between SLS and Starship have missed the point. The real question is not which of the two super heavy-lift rockets launches first. Rather, it's "how many Starships will launch between the first and second flights of the SLS rocket?"

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

Krispy Kreme 'Artemis Moon Doughnut' to launch same day as NASA mission

Krispy Kreme is celebrating NASA's Artemis 1 launch with a new, limited edition doughnut inspired by the mission's destination.

Set to go on sale the same day that NASA's Space Launch System (SLS) rocket lifts off with an Orion spacecraft to fly around the moon, Krispy Kreme's one-day-only "Artemis Moon Doughnut" (opens in new tab) is a Cheesecake Kreme-flavored filled doughnut dipped in "Cookies 'n Kreme" icing with a swirl of cookie pieces.

"The Artemis 1 mission is a proud moment, and we are in awe of the amazing Americans behind the world's most powerful rocket. So, we created these delicious doughnuts to enjoy while you watch the launch," Dave Skena, global chief brand officer for Krispy Kreme, said in a statement issued on Friday (Aug. 26). "The Orion spacecraft atop the rocket will stay in space longer than any ship for astronauts has done without docking to a space station, but our Artemis Moon Doughnut will be available only Monday, so start the countdown and don't miss it!"

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

https://www.textise.net/showText.aspx?strURL=https%3A//www.cnbc.com/2022/08/27/nasas-artemis-1-mission-what-you-should-know-about-sls-orion.html#MainContent

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

https://www.textise.net/showText.aspx?strURL=https%3A//www.theguardian.com/science/2022/aug/28/artemis-1-nasa-space-rocket-moon-mission#maincontent

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

 

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

 

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/06/nasas-second-mobile-launcher-is-too-heavy-years-late-and-pushing-1-billion/

[atomheartbevo 90670]

Everybody with young kids needs to have their kids bug the teachers to put the launch up live on a computer or classroom TV or whatever.  Yeah, 7:33am, but we know it’ll be delayed slightly at the least.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Everybody with young kids needs to have their kids bug the teachers to put the launch up live on a computer or classroom TV or whatever.  Yeah, 7:33am, but we know it’ll be delayed slightly at the least.

School doesn’t start that early. 

[YGIFS 19458]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/29/world/nasa-artemis-1-launch-scn/index.html

Will leave it to Ramjet to explain more on this.  But weather in the area delayed the fueling of the rockets overnight.  Launch window is still open but who knows how much compounded in terms of delays since CNN posted the story.  NASA posted 45 minutes that 'engine troubleshooting continues...'  https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2022/08/29/engineers-troubleshooting-engine-conditioning-issue/

But yeah, this would be so cool for the kids to see at school today.  She has science class first, so at least that teacher should be sympathetic to my daughter wanting to see this live.  Though with this news, we may be much closer to the 9:30a part of the window.  

To the Moon, baby! 

update just now:  liquid hydrogen seapege (06:15a-CDT)

Edited August 29, 2022 by YGIFS

[YGIFS 19458]

Clock stopped for 10 minutes at the 40:00 mark.  Hydrogen Team (great name for a band BTW) working the issue and turning back over to Flight. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10810]

Really want to see them launch today. Can't imagine the pressure engineers feel on day like this after years of what if scenarios.

[Sgt Hulk 14470]

Was hoping my fellow space geeks are here. I’m so excited for the launch  having been in the industry a few years I’ll wager it doesn’t fly today. Too many little things popping up but I hope it does.  I have a house in the area and my tenant is so excited. I’ve waited awhile for this one. But I don’t think she flies.  Hoping she does though.  Let’s goooo

[Sgt Hulk 14470]

She’s a beaut Clark   Lightning towers did their jobs 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Sgt Hulk

[YGIFS 19458]

9 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Was hoping my fellow space geeks are here. I’m so excited for the launch  having been in the industry a few years I’ll wager it doesn’t fly today. Too many little things popping up but I hope it does.  I have a house in the area and my tenant is so excited. I’ve waited awhile for this one. But I don’t think she flies.  Hoping she does though.  Let’s goooo

I'll take your word for it, you having been in the business.  But yeah, while a bummer...this kinda valiant return by NASA can't fail.  Too many skeptics nobody wants to hear from.  

If she does go up, tell your tenant not to let your windows rupture   I remember when I moved to just about an hour from the Cape and a launch happened just months later (pre-internet, I had no idea there was gonna be one).  Shook the shit outta the windows and scared the fuck outta me.  But from then on, the whole time I lived there...I never missed driving to the coast to see the launches.  

Looks like clock resumption in 2:00, or?  

Edited August 29, 2022 by YGIFS

[Sgt Hulk 14470]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I'll take your word for it, you having been in the business.  But yeah, while a bummer...this kinda valiant return by NASA can't fail.  Too many skeptics nobody wants to hear from.  

If she does go up, tell your tenant not to let your windows rupture   I remember when I moved to just about an hour from the Cape and a launch happened just months later (pre-internet, I had no idea there was gonna be one).  Shook the shit outta the windows and scared the fuck outta me.  But from then on, the whole time I lived there...I never missed driving to the coast to see the launches.  

Looks like clock resumption in 2:00, or?  

They rattle our windows too my house is about 8 miles as the crow flies so we see the flames and everything else.  I just feel like mission assurance on this one is leaving zero maybes zero what ifs.  I’ll prob be wrong since I wrote it. But a mission failure will have the Boeing haters out in full force 

[Captainant 28596]

28 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

They rattle our windows too my house is about 8 miles as the crow flies so we see the flames and everything else.  I just feel like mission assurance on this one is leaving zero maybes zero what ifs.  I’ll prob be wrong since I wrote it. But a mission failure will have the Boeing haters out in full force 

I mean, a fuckup on this rocket is a multi billion dollar mistake and it's pretty reasonable to want to avoid that lol. But it also highlights the main problem with SLS - it's horrifically expensive and is not a sustainable way to take us to the stars. It doesn't need to be this expensive. We didn't have to be use mastercrafted and incredibly expensive and complex RS25's as expendable booster engines.

It's incredibly mismanaged if you're Joe public taxpayer, and incredibly well managed if you're a Boeing shareholder. I've got no beef with spending billions and billions on space - in fact I'd love increasing funding! But cost plus contracts and the old way of doing things is spending more to get less

[immamac 44414]

Got some Artemis moon mission special edition donuts from Krispy Kreme

Watching with the oldest boy. 
 

[Captainant 28596]

Godspeed to every engineer working on this giant candle! I hope we get a lunch this morning, but the Everyday Astronaut folks that are on location are reporting that engineers are still chasing some small interstage leaks. 

Two hour launch window though, if they aren't in the final countdown in an hour and a half, we're recycling for Sept 2, and then Sept 5. If they miss Sept 5th, they roll back to VAB. 

Big day today. They've never actually done a fully stacked launch sequence on this design. It'll be fucking spectacular though!

[Sgt Hulk 14470]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I mean, a fuckup on this rocket is a multi billion dollar mistake and it's pretty reasonable to want to avoid that lol. But it also highlights the main problem with SLS - it's horrifically expensive and is not a sustainable way to take us to the stars. It doesn't need to be this expensive. We didn't have to be use mastercrafted and incredibly expensive and complex RS25's as expendable booster engines.

It's incredibly mismanaged if you're Joe public taxpayer, and incredibly well managed if you're a Boeing shareholder. I've got no beef with spending billions and billions on space - in fact I'd love increasing funding! But cost plus contracts and the old way of doing things is spending more to get less

Unfortunately in this industry cost plus is the best way to go. We went to FFP and it’s a fucking nightmare because companies are already tacking on a what of fee on the back end since they are locked in. Add on the millions of reviews and bullshit modifications because requirements generation sucks. I worked all the cost plus efforts with ULA.  When we finally rolled SpaceX in and went to firm fixed price only it became an administrative nightmare because the government had gotten used to asking and getting whatever they want because of cost plus and then going to SpaceX and asking for the stuff that we want on a firm fixed price contract ended up costing so much more administrative headache and then trying to get approval to mod the contracts and figuring out scope determination. In 2019 and 2020 I did an internship with Boeing for a year to learn the industry side of things and companies dealing with firm fixed price space efforts are bidding out because of the unknowns. The governments problem is lazy contract administration on cost plus efforts they’ve increased oversight to the point where nobody wants to truly do the job because it’s just become an administrative headache

[Sgt Hulk 14470]

Sorry for the run-on ramble that was voice to text.  Bottom line it’s expensive because we the government suck shit when it comes Defining the requirement risk version and getting off our own dicks to allow industry and the professionals to move the project along couple that with 100% mission insurance and do you have a recipe for cost overruns and midway through the project oh shit I didn’t know we need that damn let’s go ask them how much it’s gonna cost to get it

Edited August 29, 2022 by Sgt Hulk

[YGIFS 19458]

Actually, it was super helpful.  Oldest and I are space junkies and I never know quite how to defend NASA and all space programs to naysayers aside from just shaking them and yelling, "Because it's what next goddamnit.  We had plenty of people standing around the dry dock complaining about using all the timber to make boats instead of houses."   

[immamac 44414]

I’d love some of the resident space folks to chime in, but from my dumb brain it seems nearly impossible for space x to do something like Artemis 1. It’s great that they have figured out how to launch satellites and get people to the ISS, but lets be real - they got to learn from programs like this doing it successfully for well over a decade before their attempt. This is several orders of magnitude harder than that and I just don’t believe for a second we are in the “cost optimization” phase of getting to the moon. It needs to succeed and because of that it feels like it needs to be overbuilt.  

[Sgt Hulk 14470]

There was a lot of angst and a lot of shit talking when the space force was created mostly from political sides but I will say that that is and will be the final contested domain because there is some stuff going on that we are not ready for and we absolutely need a dedicated branch to that because as technology continues shits going to get wild for sure but people just see Dollar Signs and they think it’s a waste and that’s good because if everybody really knew what could happen there be chaos

[WBT 20997]

Just called a scrub

[Updawg 2388]

Damn

[Sgt Hulk 14470]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

I’d love some of the resident space folks to chime in, but from my dumb brain it seems nearly impossible for space x to do something like Artemis 1. It’s great that they have figured out how to launch satellites and get people to the ISS, but lets be real - they got to learn from programs like this doing it successfully for well over a decade before their attempt. This is several orders of magnitude harder than that and I just don’t believe for a second we are in the “cost optimization” phase of getting to the moon. It needs to succeed and because of that it feels like it needs to be overbuilt.  

SpaceX has been working on this very exact thing with starship and you have seen all the attempts that have been made in the past year to space is hard you need to blow up some rockets and fail and fail often to learn from those mistakes and that’s why I cannot even imagine the amount of tears and complaining on social media if we were allowed to just press the issue and fail industry can afford to fail and fail often to learn the problem.  there isn’t a political leader or a military leader that will put their neck on the line and allow the government to fail and fail fast because of the not my taxpayer dollar society will lose their shit.  Industry has been working this issue and beyond 

[immamac 44414]

Fuck. 

[Dr Fear 1290]

Possible leak in one of the tanks.

Flex Seal jokes incoming in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

[Captainant 28596]

8 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Unfortunately in this industry cost plus is the best way to go. We went to FFP and it’s a fucking nightmare because companies are already tacking on a what of fee on the back end since they are locked in. Add on the millions of reviews and bullshit modifications because requirements generation sucks. I worked all the cost plus efforts with ULA.  When we finally rolled SpaceX in and went to firm fixed price only it became an administrative nightmare because the government had gotten used to asking and getting whatever they want because of cost plus and then going to SpaceX and asking for the stuff that we want on a firm fixed price contract ended up costing so much more administrative headache and then trying to get approval to mod the contracts and figuring out scope determination. In 2019 and 2020 I did an internship with Boeing for a year to learn the industry side of things and companies dealing with firm fixed price space efforts are bidding out because of the unknowns. The governments problem is lazy contract administration on cost plus efforts they’ve increased oversight to the point where nobody wants to truly do the job because it’s just become an administrative headache

 

7 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Sorry for the run-on ramble that was voice to text.  Bottom line it’s expensive because we the government suck shit when it comes Defining the requirement risk version and getting off our own dicks to allow industry and the professionals to move the project along couple that with 100% mission insurance and do you have a recipe for cost overruns and midway through the project oh shit I didn’t know we need that damn let’s go ask them how much it’s gonna cost to get it

Super interesting insight, thank you for sharing! I hear ya that it's important for flexibility because you can't really define requirements when you don't have a full problem statement to design against (or it changes), but bruh. 4 billion a launch is absurd. Not to mention that we can't make any more RS25's, and there's better engine tech out there now so we don't have all the headaches and costs of hydrogen fuel. 

I think NASA's problem is the same problem of very large enterprises I see in my job: they try to centrally control everything and have so many rules and procedures that exist because they exist that they spend more time on paperwork than on actually building towards an outcome. SpaceX doesn't have any magic voodoo, they're just willing to accept failure as an outcome while in development. And they've structured their design to be very modifiable without increasing cycle time during manufacturing, which enables the actual design feedback loop

[Sgt Hulk 14470]

A few years back when SpaceX launched the first falcon heavy that mission was delayed by several years due to technology and mission and frankly trying stuff that we’ve never tried before but it was unknown to the public because it was a joint venture between us and SpaceX and a few other funding agencies when you finally flew everybody just saw the rocket but didn’t know that it was delayed several years just like this current mission 

Just now, Captainant said:

 

Super interesting insight, thank you for sharing! I hear ya that it's important for flexibility because you can't really define requirements when you don't have a full problem statement to design against (or it changes), but bruh. 4 billion a launch is absurd. Not to mention that we can't make any more RS25's, and there's better engine tech out there now so we don't have all the headaches and costs of hydrogen fuel. 

I think NASA's problem is the same problem of very large enterprises I see in my job: they try to centrally control everything and have so many rules and procedures that exist because they exist that they spend more time on paperwork than on actually building towards an outcome. SpaceX doesn't have any magic voodoo, they're just willing to accept failure as an outcome while in development. And they've structured their design to be very modifiable without increasing cycle time during manufacturing, which enables the actual design feedback loop

Nailed it!

[RamjetFDO 10655]

Scrubs happen.  We had these during Shuttle, too... but what's worrying to me is that it seams to be in the same area that they had issues with during the wet rehearsal.  If that's the case, then it points to either not understanding the problem, not correctly fixing the problem, or having a systemic issue that's going to keep popping up regardless of what "fix" is applied - and that worries me a bit.

While Friday, 9/4 is the next *opportunity*, it'll completely depend on what the issue is and whether it's a "fix/resolve on the pad" or "roll it back" resolution.  "Roll it back" will probably be weeks-to-months before the next chance.  They're leaving the stack tanked/semi-pressurized for now to gather more data.

More later, I'm sure.

[immamac 44414]

10 minutes ago, RamjetFDO said:

Scrubs happen.  We had these during Shuttle, too... but what's worrying to me is that it seams to be in the same area that they had issues with during the wet rehearsal.  If that's the case, then it points to either not understanding the problem, not correctly fixing the problem, or having a systemic issue that's going to keep popping up regardless of what "fix" is applied - and that worries me a bit.

While Friday, 9/4 is the next *opportunity*, it'll completely depend on what the issue is and whether it's a "fix/resolve on the pad" or "roll it back" resolution.  "Roll it back" will probably be weeks-to-months before the next chance.  They're leaving the stack tanked/semi-pressurized for now to gather more data.

More later, I'm sure.

Not great, Bob. Hopefully they fix it this time!

[Captainant 28596]

Seems like valves have been the consistent problem every time the rocket is "wet". Hell they still haven't really completed a full wet rehearsal, so it's unsurprising to see more teething troubles. @Sgt Hulkthis is more than just a little delay though lol. SLS was "ordered" in 2010 with a 2016 delivery date, under the assumption that there would be no integration hell (lol) because it was existing tech and a known mission profile. Not very comparable to the falcon heavy development cycle at all, which was using new engines, a new mission profile, and integrating loads of brand new tech. 

Shit, I'd bet anyone a case of beer that this ends with a roll back to VAB. Boeing can't tolerate ANY risk whatsoever, which is going to further limit their launch opportunities 

[miguelito 11513]

immamac, you're gonna have to put those donuts on hold, too.

 

Actually, I want to know what's in them.

[RamjetFDO 10655]

Hearing some chatter from friends that the H2 recirc pumps that were a part of the Shuttle implementation of the RS25 engine config were removed from SLS for ... wait for it ... cost savings.

I'm sure that's just someone being snarky, and there's some 200-page rationale floating around somewhere for why the changed it up, but if the leak is coming from some franken-config change to where the recirc pumps *used to be*, then that's going to be an ugly root-cause-analysis meeting.

[atomheartbevo 90670]

4 hours ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

School doesn’t start that early. 

Technically no,  but our kids are in the classroom by then, as the tardy bell rings at 7:40.

Next window is Friday at I think 11am

[atomheartbevo 90670]

48 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

There was a lot of angst and a lot of shit talking when the space force was created mostly from political sides but I will say that that is and will be the final contested domain because there is some stuff going on that we are not ready for and we absolutely need a dedicated branch to that because as technology continues shits going to get wild for sure but people just see Dollar Signs and they think it’s a waste and that’s good because if everybody really knew what could happen there be chaos

We already had a group within the Air Force that was more than capable of handling a lot of stuff.

[CooterBrown 18289]

6 minutes ago, RamjetFDO said:

Hearing some chatter from friends that the H2 recirc pumps that were a part of the Shuttle implementation of the RS25 engine config were removed from SLS for ... wait for it ... cost savings.

I'm not a NASA project manager but justifying cost cutting on a vehicle that has astronauts sitting on top of dozens of tons of rocket fuel, isn't a hill I'd want to die on.

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by CooterBrown

[MonkeyDoughnut 10810]

Firm believer in needing both public and private to succeed in these type missions. NASA has the flight planning, trajectory, orbital mechanics experience and companies like SpaceX have the rocket/materials ability without the red tape government groups face.  Failure for them isn't to be avoided but to be used to refine the process and understand the limits.

I'm not getting any younger though so if they wouldn't mind hurrying up a little bit, I've got my one way to Mars suitcase already packed and ready to go.