Vice President tells NASA to get to the Moon in 5 years.

[UncleCharlie 334]

Did these people not watch Event Horizon?

[El Diablo 4232]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

Is the space elevator concept still a thing? I always thought that was fascinating (and don’t really understand it).

I had forgotten about this idea. Wasn't the idea to tether a space station to the earth via a super strong rope? Chinese made space scissors probably would ruin it.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

3 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

I had forgotten about this idea. Wasn't the idea to tether a space station to the earth via a super strong rope? Chinese made space scissors probably would ruin it.

There would be no need to worry about Chinese scissors.  If the tech ever exists to build an elevator, China would probably be a partner in it.  ISIS scissors would be the biggest problem.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13742]

2 hours ago, RamjetFDO said:

Then that probe would probably grind to a full-stop within 5 minutes of beginning operations, because 95% of what is there isn't in the "database".  

Don't get me wrong - and again, re-iterating my point, unmanned exploration is not only key, but CRITICAL, to space exploration and should be fully-funded and implemented!  There are times, places, and situations where unmanned probes may be the ONLY thing to go (i.e., outer planets, asteroids, areas where after the fact we rule OUT manned exploration because of the data returned by unmanned probes, etc.).

But to say (not you, but "Eddie") that there's no reason to send people, once the unmanned probes have concluded or at least made massive inroads in remote sensing to the best of their programming/capabilities, because there's nothing to be added by having a human explorer is ... well ... short-sighted and will be guaranteed to miss those things/opportunities/scenarios that weren't planned for, but could become that "Hey, look, I found a fossil!" moment.

you're just putting words into my mouth. I didn't say there was zero reason to send people but that we could accomplish more with sending unmanned probes.  Based on return of dollars, unmanned probes accomplish more.  And that's an opinion just like yours.

Of course humans add the ability to pivot in a way that technology alone can't do. But is that worth the trillions to place a man on Mars?  Doubtful.

 

[RamjetFDO 10655]

38 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

you're just putting words into my mouth. I didn't say there was zero reason to send people but that we could accomplish more with sending unmanned probes.  Based on return of dollars, unmanned probes accomplish more.  And that's an opinion just like yours.

Of course humans add the ability to pivot in a way that technology alone can't do. But is that worth the trillions to place a man on Mars?  Doubtful.

 

Fair points, re: "putting words into your mouth".  My apologies there.

However, the return on investment from every phase of spaceflight hardware/software development into the public realm has been anywhere from the (hard to prove) $7-for-every-$1-spent to *at least* a $3-to-$1 ROI... which is worthwhile in any ROI evaluation.

It's obvious that the communications and remote sensing improvements from unmanned satellites and exploration probes comes back with large ROIs to other technical areas.  That's awesome.  

But, there are so many NASA spinoffs from the *human* exploration initiatives (as well as the unmanned exploration work) that I would wager easy money that a push on to Mars with humans would increase that list by large margins.  A number of these advances would not have been created without the original need for protecting humans in space or enhancing their capabilities to explore.

• https://spinoff.nasa.gov/
• https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/spinoff-2018-highlights-space-technology-improving-life-on-earth
• https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/infographics/infographic.view.php?id=11358
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies

That's a technology push - hell, it's a literal shove - from spaceflight exploration (both unmanned *and* manned) that I'm just not willing to ignore.

[Pato del Muerto 53581]

We should send monkeys before humans. Worked out well last time. 

[atomheartbevo 90670]

3 hours ago, El Diablo said:

I had forgotten about this idea. Wasn't the idea to tether a space station to the earth via a super strong rope? Chinese made space scissors probably would ruin it.

The tech is still being worked on.  I think they are up to a few hundred feet.  

Hey @RamjetFDO speaking of space elevators, did you ever read the Kim Stanley Robinson Mars trilogy?  And if so, what’d you think?

[RamjetFDO 10655]

Yeah, I remember reading them Red-Green-Blue back-to-back, so it must've been right after Blue came out.  Good, cool, classic sci-fi. 

[relapse98 634]

On 4/1/2019 at 8:12 AM, RamjetFDO said:

One of many examples:

Sure as shit looks gray to me.

[RamjetFDO 10655]

NASA head answers Agency questions about Moon by 2024 goal

Quote

Among the top questions submitted via an online form for the April 1 meeting, the biggest questions NASA employees had were about funding and support by the U.S. Congress to meet the stated 2024 deadline set by Vice President Mike Pence during the fifth meeting of the National Space Council on March 26, 2019.

“This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity,” Bridenstine said during a live broadcast of the town hall. “I hope everybody here takes that away. This is an opportunity for people in this room, and people watching from across the agency to say where you were when your talking to your grandchildren or your great-grandchildren. This opportunity before us is something we haven’t had in a very long time, saying ‘we’re going to go to the Moon and we’re going to go within five years.’ In fact, its never happened before.”

Bridenstine said even President Kennedy in 1961 gave a deadline beyond the longest he could have served in office. It was, in fact, two presidents later during the Richard Nixon administration when Apollo 11 landed on the Moon in 1969. The administrator said the fact that the Trump administration challenged NASA to do it within the president’s potential second term means it is “a very serious proposal.”

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3874]

3 minutes ago, RamjetFDO said:

The administrator said the fact that the Trump administration challenged NASA to do it within the president’s potential second term means it is “a very serious proposal.”

I'd say it means just the opposite.

[atomheartbevo 90670]

40 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I'd say it means just the opposite.

As somebody said, it’s not about Trump, but about Pence.  I still don’t think Congress will fund it within 5 years, but it has the potential to disrupt a lot of NASA operations.  

[Fudge Nuggets 19473]

On 4/1/2019 at 7:16 PM, RamjetFDO said:

However, the return on investment from every phase of spaceflight hardware/software development into the public realm has been anywhere from the (hard to prove) $7-for-every-$1-spent to *at least* a $3-to-$1 ROI... which is worthwhile in any ROI evaluation.

God I wish it was that easy in my company.  We were told in orientation that if you don't bring in at least $10 ROI on your personal earnings, might as well pack your shit and find another job.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Fudge Nuggets

[atomheartbevo 90670]

I’ve been watching a shit-ton of movies and documentaries about NASA since I took my kid to the Apollo 11 film that’s in theaters.   It’s amazing how meticulously NASA planned and worked from Mercury through Gemini to Apollo, to build up to the moon landing.  

We can skip the Mercury portion of things in any new plans, but we had 10 Gemini missions that flew 3-4 years before Apollo 11, and that trained crews (both flight and ground) and worked out processes for how Apollo was going to happen.   

We should be knee-deep in the equivalent of the Gemini missions next year.  There’s no way we will be, even if we used the stock capsules Boeing and SpaceX have   And we should have already been working out the kinks of a potential Lunar Lander.

But I guess we have Kerbal Space Program. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19473]

On 4/1/2019 at 7:19 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

We should send monkeys before humans. Worked out well last time. 

And some dogs too.

I like dags.

 

[atomheartbevo 90670]

https://gizmodo.com/nasa-chief-says-trip-to-the-moon-will-get-us-to-mars-fa-1833754085

Quote

Speaking to the Committee, Bridenstine provided no specific details in terms of the “additional means” required, aside from telling Congress that NASA will be submitting a budget amendment request for the 2020 fiscal year given the new directive. As it stands, NASA is asking for $21 billion—but that was before the accelerated timeline. The amendment should be ready for Congress by April 15, he told the Committee. That NASA hasn’t tabled a budget amendment yet is wholly understandable, considering the directive was dropped onto the space agency just last week.

Quote

“We’re not going to leave flags and footprints and then not go back for 50 years,” remarked Bridenstine, “This time we’re going to stay.” NASA, he said, will work with its international and commercial partners to “go sustainably” and “explore the resources” of the Moon. The NASA chief said the commercial sector has been a tremendous help, providing, for example, the SpaceX Crew Dragon capsule that could restore the U.S.’s ability to independently launch astronauts to space. In turn, the U.S. will take the technologies learned from a lunar mission and use them for a future mission to Mars, he said.

Quote

“Mars is the horizon goal,” he said, but “the Moon is the tool we need to get to Mars.” Bridenstine alluded to the beleaguered Apollo 13 mission of 1970, saying the three-day travel time to the Moon would serve as a nice cushion should something unexpected happen, whereas the seven-month trip to Mars won’t provide such a luxury in terms of an emergency response time. 

At the same time, Bridenstine said NASA will continue “to do the things only the government can do.” He assured the Committee that NASA is “focused like a laser on the James Webb Telescope,” a multi-billion dollar project that could last as long as 30 years. Among NASA’s many other objectives, Bridenstine said the space agency is also looking to develop hypersonic jets capable of exceeding the speed of sound without causing disruptive sonic booms. He envisions aircraft capable of delivering passengers from New York to Los Angeles in just two hours.

Ughh.  Let’s hurry things up folks.   Not dangerous at all. 

Quote

“By moving up the Moon landing by four years we can move up the Mars landing,” he said. “Mars is the proving ground. We have to be able to utilize the resources of another world,” he said, such as gaining access to frozen water-ice. 

Bridenstine said he spoke personally with the vice president, assuring him that NASA would be able to meet the accelerated timeline and that the request was “within the realm of possibility.” Many of the elements required to reach the Moon are already in place or in development, he said, but the development of these elements now has to accelerated. But this acceleration, he said, “has to be reflected in the new budget.” Among these “elements” are the SLS, the Orion crew vehicle, and lunar landing vehicles. 

“The focus now is getting humans to the Moon ASAP,” said Bridenstine in response to a question posed by Committee member Frank Lucas about the extra funds required. “But not just to get them to the Moon, but to live and work on another world.”

 

[relapse98 634]

No way on earth any sane person believes we will land on the moon by 2024. Will. Not. Happen.

[atomheartbevo 90670]

26 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

No way on earth any sane person believes we will land on the moon by 2024. Will. Not. Happen.

Oh we could land somebody on the moon by 2024.   Getting them back alive is another issue.

[relapse98 634]

True. We could probably do a 1 way trip today with a crash landing. It's that safe landing on the moon.. if I read correctly, there hasn't been any development done on a lander and then getting back home that's the bitch part. Unless Nasa's budget is doubling immediately, they aren't getting there that quick. Not with Elon's help, not with Boeing's (who might currently have other problems going on) help.

[atomheartbevo 90670]

This isn’t why Pence made his comment about changing contractors, etc.  

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/nasa-s-17-billion-moon-rocket-may-be-doomed-it-ncna991061

Quote

NASA has been toiling away on a monster rocket for the past eight years — but how much action the skyscraper-size Space Launch System will see once it’s completed is now anybody’s guess.

Designed to send humans and almost 60,000 pounds of cargo to the moon and perhaps beyond, the SLS will be bigger and more powerful than any rocket since the Saturn V behemoth that took the Apollo astronauts to the moon 50 years ago. NASA has said the rocket will send Americans back to the lunar surface as early as 2024, with an uncrewed test flight tentatively scheduled for 2020.

But the orange-and-white rocket has fallen three years behind schedule — and is way over budget. Almost $17 billion has been spent so far on the space vehicle, which was projected to cost $10.6 billion when its construction was approved in 2011. Experts say each SLS flight will cost at least $1 billion, or about 11 times more than SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket, which made its debut last year.

Quote

In any case, ditching the SLS may be difficult, given the political clout of the members of Congress representing districts in Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi where the rocket components are being built and tested.

The SLS program is managed by NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. The rocket’s prime contractor, Boeing, operates out of NASA's Michoud Assembly Facility, 10 miles from New Orleans. SLS rocket engines are tested at Stennis Space Center, 40 minutes away in a Mississippi swamp.

"You can blame George Washington and Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson," said Terry Virts, a former astronaut who flew on the space shuttle in 2010 and spent more than six months aboard the International Space Station in 2014 and 2015. "When they made the Constitution, they made these things called congressional districts. And the goal of Congress is to bring home the bacon for their districts."

Quote

Problems such as these are to be expected with a major initiative like the SLS. But in a 2018 report, NASA’s Office of Inspector General blamed the agency and Boeing for sloppy expenditure tracking, questionable performance reviews that awarded Boeing millions of extra dollars and the granting of contract extensions without proper oversight.

Quote

NASA has long said that only the SLS has the heft to launch the Orion crew capsule to the moon. But in an April 1 town hall meeting with agency employees, Bridenstine said the Falcon Heavy might work if it were equipped with a powerful upper stage from another American rocket: the Delta IV Heavy.

Ironically, Boeing is a co-owner of United Launch Alliance, which produces the Delta IV Heavy. If NASA were to ditch Boeing's SLS in favor of SpaceX's Falcon Heavy, long-time aerospace rivals Boeing and SpaceX might have to team up.

There is so much money wrapped up in this, I could see the politicians pushing this forward like crazy. 

[Armybrat 41436]

Just like the Big Dig and MoPac projects.

[Pato del Muerto 53581]

Are SLS and falcon heavy even comparable in size or scope?  Should the comparison be SLS and BFR, and is bfr still in design stage?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13742]

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3874]

That's some soviet looking bullshit and I won't stand for it.

[elfenix 34775]

53 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Are SLS and falcon heavy even comparable in size or scope?  Should the comparison be SLS and BFR, and is bfr still in design stage?

SLS is 209,000 to 290,000 lbs to LEO

BFR is 220,000

falcon heavy is 63,800.  not in the same ballpark.

in comparison the Saturn V was 310,000.

edit: Ares V would have been 414,000.  that was a giant fucking rocket.  i heard your mom was interested.

edit2: pulled a lockheed on the saturn v payload figure

Edited April 8, 2019 by elfenix

[relapse98 634]

5 minutes ago, elfenix said:

Ares V

Ares V and now SLS are where it seems we just can't get a consistent program going.

[RamjetFDO 10655]

SLS is such a divisive beast in NASA.  There's the "SLS forever" camp (mostly administration types) and the "SLS is a boondoggle" camp (people not involved with SLS).

I'm in the middle where SLS *could have been* an amazing program, but the NASA of the late 2000's-through-today has become the segmented organization, pitting Centers against each other, that some of the early NASA guys feared it would become.  If a strong NASA Administrator and a series of determined Executive Administrations could have actually settled on something modest, but steady and well-funded, we would have an SLS-type program by now.

<noCR>  But - honestly - a combination of the Bush-era GWoT draining funding from the budget across the board and the subsequent Obama-era team trying to change (politically) what NASA's purpose was (too much "Green NASA" and "Outreach NASA" and not enough "don't lose the outward exploration momentum of the previous 50 years") is what killed the SLS program.  </noCR>

Remove the support and the funding and you remove the momentum.  It's really not much more complex than that.

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

Heavy launch now tomorrow 535pm central

[elfenix 34775]

18 hours ago, RamjetFDO said:

SLS is such a divisive beast in NASA.  There's the "SLS forever" camp (mostly administration types) and the "SLS is a boondoggle" camp (people not involved with SLS).

 

where are the old DIRECT guys in these camps?

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

retired

[atomheartbevo 90670]

Somebody gonna get fired, trying to claim we can’t do it alone   

https://www.space.com/nasa-moon-2024-plan-international-effort.html

Quote

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — NASA administrator Jim Bridenstine is confident that the agency will be able to land astronauts on the moon in 2024, but the U.S. won't undertake the mission alone, he said during a speech here at the 35th Space Symposium on Tuesday (April 9). 

Quote

"Putting humans on the moon in 2024 is not an America-alone effort," Bridenstine told a jampacked room of space industry officials. "We need all of our international partners. In fact, none of us can do what we want to achieve alone."

Last month, Vice President Mike Pence announced that President Donald Trump's administration is directing NASA to speed up the timeline for its already-planned moon landing in 2028 to 2024 so that the United States can maintain its position as the leading space superpower of the world — a title that could be threatened by a blooming space race with China and Russia, Pence said at a meeting of the National Space Council on March 26. 

Quote

Although NASA faces some international competition in lunar exploration, the agency has seen strong support and interest from international partners. Other countries will likely contribute technology and hardware for NASA's Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway, a small habitat or space station that would orbit the moon — similar to the way that 15 nations have worked together on the International Space Station for the last 20 years. International partners like the European Space Agency and Japan's space agency, JAXA, have also expressed interest in contributing lunar landers and life-support systems.

At least he’s being realistic (just kidding)

Quote

The biggest challenge NASA will face in putting astronauts on the moon in 2024 will be funding, Bridenstine told Space.com. "We've got to make sure that we get the budgets necessary to accomplish the objective, which means we need strong bipartisan support — which we're working on really hard right now," Bridenstine said. "Technically, I think it's achievable." 

Quote

Bridenstine explained that already having some infrastructure in place for the original 2028 target will help make the 2024 landing doable, but the mission will still depend on cooperation with both international and commercial partners. 

"The plans that we laid out for 2028 are the same plans that we're going to use to get to the moon in 2024. We're just going to have to move forward some of our investments, but it's all achievable," Bridenstine said, adding that a sufficient budget is still "key." 

NASA is currently working on an amendment to its fiscal year 2020 budget request, because that budget was issued before Pence announced NASA's accelerated timeline for a moon landing in 2024. Bridenstine did not share any details about what will be in that budget amendment, but he said it will be submitted to the White House Office of Management and Budget next week. 

Still scary.  Rushing things will get people killed, which can be used to kill off manned space flight.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 5005]

Yeah, we don't want to be russian. Then we'd be more likely to be dieing.

[Guest Lobo]

What time is the expected rocket landing tomorrow (Friday)?  Or do I have this all wrong?  I'm on no sleep with the new baby but am told something big is happening tomorrow and I'd like to watch it live with my oldest if possible.  THanks and pos rep to anyone quoting the approx. timeframe in CDT.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 5005]

Falcon Heavy launch numero dos today at 5:35 central. Stream starts at 5:15.

[XYZ 2154]

I launched a falcon heavy on your mom last night.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 5005]

That joke would be better if it was the Blue Origin rocket that looks more like a giant penis.

[Updawg 2388]

What time is the expected rocket landing tomorrow (Friday)?  Or do I have this all wrong?  I'm on no sleep with the new baby but am told something big is happening tomorrow and I'd like to watch it live with my oldest if possible.  THanks and pos rep to anyone quoting the approx. timeframe in CDT.

 

 

I screwed up the reply but I believe between 2-4pm

 

 

 

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

confirmed - wind delay

SpaceX‏Verified account @SpaceX 3h3 hours ago

Falcon Heavy and Arabsat-6A are vertical on Launch Complex 39A. Currently targeting liftoff at 8:00 p.m. EDT; monitoring upper-level winds that could push us to the end of the window (8:32 p.m. EDT) → http://spacex.com/webcast

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

Elon Musk‏Verified account @elonmusk 16m16 minutes ago

 

 

Replying to @SpaceX

Upper atmospheric wind shear is very high. Will have to postpone launch unless weather improves soon.

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

scrubtastic

SpaceX‏Verified account @SpaceX 7m7 minutes ago

Standing down from today’s Falcon Heavy launch attempt; next opportunity is tomorrow, April 11.

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

launch window same as yesterday beginnning 530pm central

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

israelis managed to get to the moon's surface today, but main engine failed on landing.

7th nation to orbit the moon, 4th to reach the surface (crashing counts)

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/space/os-ae-beresheet-moon-landing-live-stream-20190411-story.html

 

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

game on

T-60

stream in 40

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

Upper-level winds have died down, so Falcon Heavy will try flying again

Musk said there is a 5 to 10 percent chance of failure with this mission.

ERIC BERGER - 4/11/2019, 4:10 PM

Enlarge / The Falcon Heavy rocket, at sunset along the Florida coast.

Trevor Mahlmann for Ars Technica

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On Wednesday evening, SpaceX ended its first attempt to fly the Falcon Heavy rocket and its Arabsat-6A payload in the middle of a two-hour launch window. The upper-level wind shear was unacceptable, and with a poor forecast, it just didn't make sense to load kerosene and oxygen on the rocket.

FURTHER READING

SpaceX scrubs Falcon Heavy launch due to upper level winds [Updated]

Now, the rocket is back on the launch pad for another attempt Thursday, with a similar launch window, opening at 6:35pm ET (10:35 UTC) and closing at 8:31pm ET (00:31 UTC). The upper-level wind forecast for this evening is considerably better.

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This will be the Falcon Heavy rocket's second flight, following a successful first launch in February 2018, during which the company famously flung Elon Musk's cherry red Tesla Roadster into deep space. Starman is still out there, by the way, in an elliptical orbit around the Sun. Earth-based telescopes may be able to see him in the early 2020s, certainly no later than 2047.

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/04/falcon-heavy-ready-for-its-second-attempt-at-a-second-flight/

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

 

 

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

 

 

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

spacex stream ahead of all other streams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXMGu2d8c8g

 

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

T-14

[Hagbard Celine 11285]

T-5 bitches

spacex pbp dude: "Launch is Hard"

this is one of the biggest launches in history

if a private company can throw 40 tons in to geosynchronous orbit for $150m, musk destroys the rest of the planetary market for big loads