Vice President tells NASA to get to the Moon in 5 years.

[RamjetFDO 10577]

1 hour ago, Dolemite said:

Routine, safe travel to anywhere off planet is DOA unless the military coughs up some the technology they have been using for the last 70 years.

 

[Wally Fairway 5568]

2 hours ago, Dolemite said:

Routine, safe travel to anywhere off planet is DOA unless the military coughs up some the technology they have been using for the last 70 years.

As much as I love a good conspiracy, I struggle to decide which side to go with 
a) we have alien technology (from Roswell, or elsewhere) that the military has hidden from the public
or
b) the moon landings were faked (flag flapping in the wind, shadows wrong, etc)

[atomheartbevo 89735]

So now we are getting some actual figures.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/13/tech/nasa-budget-moon-mission-artemis/index.html

Quote

The space agency will need an estimated $20 billion to $30 billion over the next five years for its moon project, NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine told CNN Business on Thursday. That would mean adding another $4 billion to $6 billion per year, on average, to the agency's budget, which is already expected to be about $20 billion annually.

Bridenstine's remarks are the first time that NASA has shared a total cost estimate for its moon program, which is called Artemis (after the Greek goddess of the moon) and could send people to the lunar surface for the first time in half a century. NASA wants that mission to include two astronauts: A man and the first-ever woman to walk on the moon.

NASA plans to land the first woman on the moon by 2024

The overall goal of the Artemis program is to establish a "sustainable" presence on the moon, paving the way for astronauts to return to the surface again and again. Learning to live and work on another world, Bridenstine said, will prepare them for NASA's long-term mission: to put people on Mars for the first time in human history. 

The $20 to $30 billion cost estimate is less expensive than some had predicted — though they're not necessarily the final figures. Bridenstine acknowledged that spaceflight can be dangerous and unpredictable, so it's practically impossible to settle on an accurate price tag.

"We're negotiating within the administration," he said. "We're talking to [the federal Office of Management and Budget]; we're talking to the National Space Council." (The National Space Council is a recently revived policy development group headed by Vice President Mike Pence.)

Quote

Winning over lawmakers, however, will likely be the most difficult part.

Pence announced in March that the Trump administration wanted to speed up NASA's moon ambitions, and launch the first crewed mission in 2024 instead of 2028, the agency's earlier timeline. That's just five years away. And all the hardware that NASA needs is either delayed, way over budget or doesn't yet exist.

So far, NASA has formally requested only an additional $1.6 billion for Artemis, which Bridenstine has described as a small "down payment" for the overall program.

Quote

Some fear that NASA will end up diverting funds from its other programs, which include robotic exploration missions, Earth science and climate studies and other important scientific research.

"I will tell you my goal — and I've been very clear about this — is to make sure that we're not cannibalizing parts of NASA to fund the Artemis program," Bridenstine said.

 

[Dolemite 143]

On 6/13/2019 at 7:36 AM, Bevo said:

What technology, the stuff concealed near Roswell?

The technology that has been responsible for the thousands of ufo sightings that have been reported for decades. 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Dolemite

[atomheartbevo 89735]

5 hours ago, Dolemite said:

The technology that has been responsible for the thousands of ufo sightings that have been reported for decades. 

I don’t consider Pabst Blue Ribbon or meth to be “technology”.  

[atomheartbevo 89735]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nasa-chief-sees-private-spacecraft-potentially-reaching-moon-before-u-s-astronauts-11560962649

Quote

Despite U.S. government efforts to accelerate human space exploration, private spacecraft could beat American astronauts to the surface of the moon, according to the head of NASA.

Agency administrator James Bridenstine, speaking to reporters at the Paris Air Show here, said some companies may opt to demonstrate the capabilities of a new generation of landers before they seek to formally partner with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration to transport crews to and from the lunar surface.

 

[atomheartbevo 89735]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/19/race-to-the-moon-reddit-qa-1367030?cid=apn

Very long Q&A with various experts that’s worth reading some time.  

[atomheartbevo 89735]

Always a good sign, amirite?

https://www.space.com/nasa-shakes-up-exploration-leadership.html

Quote

 In a move that took most people in the space industry by surprise, NASA has reassigned two top officials in its exploration program, including Bill Gerstenmaier, the longtime head of NASA's human spaceflight programs.

In a memo to NASA employees issued late July 10, NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine said Bill Gerstenmaier, associate administrator for human exploration and operations, had been reassigned to serve as a special assistant to NASA Deputy Administrator Jim Morhard. The reassignment was effectively immediately. Bridenstine said that Ken Bowersox, a former astronaut who rejoined the agency earlier this year as Gerstenmaier's deputy, would take over as acting associate administrator.

Also reassigned was Bill Hill, who had been deputy associate administrator for exploration systems development, who will now be a special advisor to Associate Administrator Steve Jurczyk. Tom Whitmeyer will take over as deputy associate administrator on an acting basis.

Quote

Bridenstine's memo gave few specifics about why he was replacing Gerstenmaier and Hill. "As you know, NASA has been given a bold challenge to put the first woman and the next man on the moon by 2024, with a focus on the ultimate goal of sending humans to Mars," he wrote. "In an effort to meet this challenge, I have decided to make leadership changes to the Human Exploration and Operations (HEO) Mission Directorate."

Moving personnel into "special advisor" positions is typically considered a demotion for those who cannot be terminated outright. Those positions have few, if any, responsibilities, and those reassigned as special advisors usually leave the agency shortly thereafter.

Quote

Some have speculated that the reassignments are the result of displeasure by agency leadership, and possibly the White House, at the pace of development of the Artemis lunar program and its key elements, the Space Launch System and the Orion spacecraft.

Maybe @RamjetFDO can provide a better context.

[RamjetFDO 10577]

No, this isn't a good thing in my opinion.  Gerst is a solid guy - worked with him during the Shuttle program.  There are a *LOT* of "wtf?" comments flying around my circle of friends right now.

So - is this supposed to be a kick-in-the-ass to the management structure or is it rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  

Still early to tell, but we'll know better by the end of this year.

[El Diablo 4232]

Seems like a step backwards. At least where I work when they pull a senior person to advise on a project it typically is a step towards something UP the ladder, not out the door.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

One would assume that the WH and especially Pence won't be forgiving with any delays or bad news.

[MissingInAction 25113]

Hitler also hated bad news. His underlings wouldnt even wake him up when DDay was happening .

[atomheartbevo 89735]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-pence-interview-vice-president-reaffirms-administration-support-for-moon-first-strategy/

Quote

Despite appearances and a presidential tweet suggesting otherwise, the United States is "100%" committed to sending astronauts back to the moon in 2024 and establishing a long-term, sustainable presence there as a stepping stone to eventual piloted flights to Mars, Vice President Mike Pence said in an interview for CBS News' "The Takeout."

Quote

He also said the administration strongly supports continued development of the Space Launch System (SLS) heavy-lift booster, built by Boeing and managed at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, and the Lockheed Martin-built Orion crew capsule that will carry astronauts to the moon.

NASA hopes to launch the first unpiloted test flight of an SLS rocket and an Orion capsule in 2021, years later than originally planned. While Pence said the Trump administration remains committed to the huge rocket's development, he warned the government will turn to other providers if NASA's "traditional" contractors cannot deliver.

Quote

The SLS "is behind schedule, and it's over budget," Pence said in an interview Saturday with CBS News chief Washington correspondent Major Garrett. "But the truth is that since the start of the Space Launch System program, many administrations have underfunded it, have (not given) it the attention that it deserves.

Holy shit.  They are still doing the "we are going to get there no matter what" thing.

Quote

"This administration will not make that mistake. We're committed to the work being done in Huntsville with the Space Launch System."

But, he added, "if we can't get there on the platforms that we're building today, the rockets we're building today, we're going to get there by any means necessary. Because the president really does believe that American leadership in human space exploration is essential."

Quote

While NASA and, for now, the Trump administration are committed to the SLS for government moon missions, "we're going to continue to lean on" SpaceX and Blue Origin, Pence said. "We're going to continue to look to them to give us alternatives to ... provide American leadership in human space exploration."

Quote

"That's 100% correct," Pence told Garrett, sitting a few feet away from a recently completed Orion capsule at the Kennedy Space Center. "We understand, when we go to Mars — and Americans are going to Mars — that we're going to have to have developed new technologies, new equipment and gain new experience that we can only gain on the moon.

"And the president fully endorses that. It's one of the reasons why we set the goal that we're going to return American astronauts to the moon in the next five years and then go on to Mars."

LOL

Quote

This past Friday, the president again questioned the moon-first strategy. During a White House event to mark the Apollo 11 anniversary, Mr. Trump raised the topic several times in a photo-op chat with Pence, moonwalker Buzz Aldrin, Apollo 11 crewmate Mike Collins, NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine and others.

Quote

"To get to Mars, you have to land on the moon, they say," the president said. "Any way of going directly without landing on the moon?" he asked. "Is that a possibility?"

Bridenstine, repeating the views of many within NASA, answered that the moon offers a relatively nearby proving ground to test the hardware and techniques necessary for much longer Mars missions. The recent discovery of ice in permanently shadowed craters at the moon's south pole also promises a potentially useful source of water, air and rocket propellant, all of which would be critical to a Mars voyage.

Mr. Trump asked Collins his opinion, and the Apollo 11 veteran said he favors a direct-to-Mars approach.

"You like it direct? It seems to me Mars direct," Trump said. "Who knows better than these people? I mean, they've been doing this stuff for a long time." Turning to Bridenstine, he again asked, "What about the concept of Mars direct?" The NASA administrator again explained why the agency believes the moon is the better near-term target.

Pence laughed at suggestions the president was opposed to NASA's current strategy. He said Saturday the president's comments and questions did not reflect a disagreement about U.S. national space policy and the directive to put astronauts back on the moon before considering flights to Mars.

 

[Biff Tannen 45692]

Well this all seems VERY sophisticated. 

[relapse98 634]

Quote

he warned the government will turn to other providers if NASA's "traditional" contractors cannot deliver.

Who? Blue Origin is proceeding at a snail's pace. I would call SpaceX a traditional contractor at this point, they're hauling shit to the ISS. Who else is even close?
You throw someone new at it and you'll just increase the timeline, not shorten it.

Quote

we're going to get there by any means necessary.

No, you won't. You won't spend the money required to get there.

We won't be back at the moon in his timeline. Guaranteed. We won't do what is required to get there. We can't fucking figure out a coherent space policy that doesn't flip flop every 4 years and then we have this guy who contradicts himself left and right and seems to ramble on.

What it appears we may end up doing is killing a few more people rushing ahead like imbeciles.

[atomheartbevo 89735]

45 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

Who? Blue Origin is proceeding at a snail's pace. I would call SpaceX a traditional contractor at this point, they're hauling shit to the ISS. Who else is even close?
You throw someone new at it and you'll just increase the timeline, not shorten it.

.....

We won't be back at the moon in his timeline. Guaranteed. We won't do what is required to get there. We can't fucking figure out a coherent space policy that doesn't flip flop every 4 years and then we have this guy who contradicts himself left and right and seems to ramble on.

What it appears we may end up doing is killing a few more people rushing ahead like imbeciles.

In Trump's business life, he's always had the ability to play contractors against one another, because in the construction/development business, there's always another contractor who can come along and do the work.  You're right, you can't pull that shit here, because there's not another contractor waiting in the wings.

Hell, Boeing and SpaceX are already behind schedule, and yeah, Blue Origin's schedule is well behind them, although Bezos may have some things up his sleeve.  This bluffing just makes everybody in the room look stupid.

On the one hand, and @RamjetFDO could probably expand on this a lot, it's almost got to be a good time for NASA, because they have a lot of goodwill from the 50th anniversary, and they have a mini-space race with the Chinese, and Russians to a lesser extent, and the politicians are interested.  The Secretary of Defense is a former defense industry lobbyist, which helps (government contractors would love another big project like a moonshot or Mars).  And SpaceX is a viable contractor and innovator who can help a lot, and potentially help keep costs down.  Bridenstine....can't get too good of a read on him at this point, but he's a huge cheerleader for space exploration.

On the other hand, the VP is out there saying "the President wants us to be back on the moon by the time I'm running for office" and the President is saying "who is saying we are going back to the moon, why aren't we going to Mars?  We've already been to the moon, we need to go to Mars."  That has the potential for disrupting a lot of careers and plans.

And yeah, lots of potential to get people killed.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

There was eight years between Kennedy announcing that we were going to the moon and us actually landing on it. We had never done a number of things required for this feat that seem trivial to us today. We had to figure out how to do survive outside our rocket capsule. We had to figure out how to get two objects into a close enough orbit to then figure out how to pretty much make them have sex. We had to figure out how to make a machine that could land on the moon and still go hack and knock up the OP's mom who was still in orbit. Oh yeah, we had to prove that we could orbit the moon and keep people alive in space long enough to get them back in good shape. And we did all that plus the big enchilada in less than a decade. There were definitely costs along the way, but we did back in the day when Zack Morris's phone would have blown everybody's minds.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

At a cost of $300,000,000,000 in today’s dollars. You are not going to get that kind of commitment from multiple administrations. I’m willing to bet that the next flag planted on the moon will either be Chinese, or have a corporate logo on it.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

At a cost of $300,000,000,000 in today’s dollars. You are not going to get that kind of commitment from multiple administrations. I’m willing to bet that the next flag planted on the moon will either be Chinese, or have a corporate logo on it.

[Guest Lobo]

It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether

[RamjetFDO 10577]

3 hours ago, Lobo said:

It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether

Everyone:  "It's an entirely different kind of flying."

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

9 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

There was eight years between Kennedy announcing that we were going to the moon and us actually landing on it. We had never done a number of things required for this feat that seem trivial to us today. We had to figure out how to do survive outside our rocket capsule. We had to figure out how to get two objects into a close enough orbit to then figure out how to pretty much make them have sex. We had to figure out how to make a machine that could land on the moon and still go hack and knock up the OP's mom who was still in orbit. Oh yeah, we had to prove that we could orbit the moon and keep people alive in space long enough to get them back in good shape. And we did all that plus the big enchilada in less than a decade. There were definitely costs along the way, but we did back in the day when Zack Morris's phone would have blown everybody's minds.

 

3 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

At a cost of $300,000,000,000 in today’s dollars. You are not going to get that kind of commitment from multiple administrations. I’m willing to bet that the next flag planted on the moon will either be Chinese, or have a corporate logo on it.

some dude was talking during all the Apollo 11 hullabaloo the last few days that said JFK getting assassinated might have been the difference between going and not going to the moon.  it was real hard for anyone in Congress to say no to funding and deal with "Oh, so you're going to be the one the ruin Kennedy's legacy."  I thought that was interesting.

[Sbbruin 21861]

So is our resident spaceman gonna be on this rocket ship to the moon?

[miguelito 11266]

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

4 hours ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

 

some dude was talking during all the Apollo 11 hullabaloo the last few days that said JFK getting assassinated might have been the difference between going and not going to the moon.  it was real hard for anyone in Congress to say no to funding and deal with "Oh, so you're going to be the one the ruin Kennedy's legacy."  I thought that was interesting.

Are you trying to imply that something needs to happen?

[Biff Tannen 45692]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Are you trying to imply that something needs to happen?

[atomheartbevo 89735]

5 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Are you trying to imply that something needs to happen?

They killed Chris Kraft this week, that should be enough.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/space/article/NASA-s-Johnson-Space-Center-will-not-lead-lunar-14330895.php

Houston JSC not leading the lunar lander development. Marshall in Alabama will.  I recall when Texan politicians would actually make things happen and not just send strongly worded notes.

Quote

Texas lawmakers were not pleased. When rumors began circulating that Alabama would receive this designation, U.S. Rep. Brian Babin, along with Republican U.S. Sens. Ted Cruz and John Cornyn, asked Bridenstine to reconsider.

"The Johnson Space Center has served as NASA's lead center for human spaceflight for more than half a century," they wrote in a letter to the administrator. " 'Houston' was one of the first words ever uttered on the Moon, and Houston, the city that last sent man to the Moon, should be where the lander that will once again send Americans to the lunar surface is developed."

The Johnson Space Center was in charge of the lunar lander program during the Apollo missions.

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

Well at least we know it's completely fucked now

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

So if they call the command module it's sister ship, does that increase the chances of a successful docking?

[next2naus 439]

didn't we leave our car up there?

[DaysOff 7958]

We left the place littered with our trash. Very American; fuck you China.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Fuck.  When Sam Rayburn and LBJ turn into Cornyn and Cruz, this is what you get. 

[relapse98 634]

2 hours ago, next2naus said:

didn't we leave our car up there?

We literally left bags of shit up there.

[atomheartbevo 89735]

2 hours ago, relapse98 said:

We literally left bags of shit up there.

Somebody has thought about retrieving them, and doing a shitload of papers based around what happens when you have leave bags of human feces on another celestial body.

[Wally Fairway 5568]

7 hours ago, next2naus said:

didn't we leave our car up there?

I think 3 of them, and all the LEM base modules, I think the LEM ascent module was returned (crashed) to the moon; and a shit ton of other crap that we ('Merica) and other countries have shot at the moon.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Don't forget the abandoned Nazi base

[Brisketexan 105161]

We literally left bags of shit up there.

We left scat on the moon?
The moon is Shaggy?
Dude.....

[atomheartbevo 89735]

29 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We left scat on the moon?
The moon is Shaggy?
Dude.....

Frank Borman vowed he was going to avoid shitting (he didn't like the waste system), so of course, he went and got himself a nice case of diarrhea, and said waste containment system wasn't able to....handle his movements.

Vox has a very nice animation of the issue of moon shit.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/22/18236125/apollo-moon-poop-mars-science

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

2 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Don't forget the abandoned Nazi base

That’s cute 

[relapse98 634]

The whole system of collecting shit, that they still use today if the fancy suction toilet breaks down, just seems gross as fuck.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

they need to have some sort of state fair style gravitron where you sit on a pot and spin around ass outwards 5 times a second and the turds are just centripetal forced out of your ass into space.

[atomheartbevo 89735]

25 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

The whole system of collecting shit, that they still use today if the fancy suction toilet breaks down, just seems gross as fuck.

I admire Frank Borman's attempt at avoiding shitting in a little ziplock bag taped to his ass on Apollo 8.

[housious 468]

On 6/15/2019 at 2:58 PM, atomheartbevo said:

I don’t consider Pabst Blue Ribbon or meth to be “technology”.  

Don't knock it til you try it

[El Diablo 4232]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 9:17 AM, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

they need to have some sort of state fair style gravitron where you sit on a pot and spin around ass outwards 5 times a second and the turds are just centripetal forced out of your ass into space.

Can we point that gizmo towards College Station?

[atomheartbevo 89735]

 

[Trey3216 15349]

3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

USSOC? 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Trey3216

[workswithseed 2112]

On 7/26/2019 at 9:01 AM, RamjetFDO said:

Everyone:  "It's an entirely different kind of flying."

It's falling with style

[LonghornSean 4008]

 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

8 hours ago, LonghornSean said:

 

Wow. That is an incredible video. Thank you for posting. 
 

small side note: I love the retro feel of the animation.  Really brings to mind the glory days of the space race and sci-fi