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2019 NCAA March Madness Sweet 16 and Elite Eight


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5 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Zion is an incredible talent but is limited. I'm curious to see how he does when he can't walk out on the court and is automatically the strongest guy out there.

Zion’s limiting factor is a Canadian named “RJ Barrett”.

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6 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

So, do we want to see Tech bring it home? Because I do.

It'd be nice if the Big 12 had someone other than Kansas win the whole damn thing. OSU is the only other team with a title and those were back in the 40s or something.

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8 hours ago, Chico_SA said:

pussy

Look at how Henry has played since then.  

Edit....   You sound like a pussy. 

Ya know maybe I think coaches having to be restrained from hitting their players is a bad thing. He's about one play way from a Wood Hayes, maybe you weren't around then, but it was bad back then, and its not a better look today.  

I like the internet tough guy act though. You sound like a helluva guy.

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12 hours ago, Girdwood said:

Fuck Tech. I’d rather anyone win this shit but those insufferable pricks. Those who grew up in west TX will only understand. They are the worst and will never shut the fuck up if they win.

This makes me laugh. 

I have only met a few people in my life who have gone to Texas Tech and the only “fans” I’m familiar with are a few acquaintances/casual friends whose kids go there, because that is the best school that they could get into.

it is akin to saying “Fuck Nissan Sentra owners! I’d rather anyone win a street race than a Nissan Sentra owner. Those who grew up tuning Mitsubishi Mirages will understand...”

This is such a minute and distant subset of the world’s population that I’ve never even considered giving them a second thought.

 I now know that there is a tiny group of people who are envious of the Texas Tech community...

...though I might completely forget this as early as next week. 

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10 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

I'm curious to how that frame and body is going to respond after five or six 82 game seasons plus playoff games.

He is going to have to lose some weight at the next level.    He will be a physical beast though when he gets with NBA S&T coaches.    I think he is pretty poorly conditioned now.    He seems to be out of breath a lot.

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I'm kinda rooting for those insufferable pricks at Tech.  Most of the Tech kids I know are burned out stoner/drunk frat types.  Another guy got his girlfriend preggo and her rich parents built them a million dollar house somewhere.  I mean that's what college is all about.

I guess second the Wahoos, but I get kinda sick of all the Virginia knob-gobbling.  But they're a good team, no doubt.  

Coming up far behind areAuburn, because I mean who the fuck wants Auburn to win anyfuckingthing, followed by (S)party With 12 Year Old Girls State (thank YOU for beating Duke now GTFO).  I don't want Izzo's permissive legacy to be buried.  I think if he wins it the first question should be, "so Tom,  your defense did a great job covering up the floor.  You obviously learned this from your PR work covering up some of your players sex activities.  How are they similar?"

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31 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

1. Virginia (dad is an alum)

2. Tech because good for them

3. Michigan St. because Izzo should have more than one

4. Minneapolis is firebombed

5. Auburn because fuck Bruce Pearl and his cheating tattle tale bitch ass

I'd go this order ^^

1. UVA cause my home state school and all, but Bennet seems to be a class act.

2. TT love a team coming out of nowhere to grab the final four spot. (and they're not a cinderella, they''re legit)

3.  MSU cause I've always loved their tournament prowess,  but fuck fuck Tom Izzo, and his pre Woody Hayes syndrome.  I'm seriously concerned what's gonna happen if  one of his players blows a late game winning or losing shot.

4. AU fuck Bruce Pearls cheating ways.

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Onboard, you should look into the history between TI and his players. It's been a two way street since well before Draymond Green was here. You don't think Antonio Smith ever cursed Izzo out? He gives and he takes, and he is no closer to hitting a player now than he was in 1997 when he also stroked out on players. Those guys love him for it. Look into the story of Gary Harris cursing him out during a game a few years ago. One 15 second clip being played over and over again does not tell the story. He is not Woody Hayes, and he is not Bobby Knight. I encourage you to read up on him, he's a pretty likeable dude. If he slugs a dude or video emerges of him choking a player in practice, I will sadly admit that I'm wrong but I think you need to understand the relationships that he has with these guys and some history.

As for the comment about him being permissive, I would like someone to show me the evidence of him covering up for his players sexual transgressions. Details are a funny thing, and I know them from the FOIAs to the police reports, to the deals that prosecuting attorneys made or didn't make. There is zero evidence that Izzo covered anything up, and more relevant, in most of the incidents, there is zero evidence that any crime was actually committed. I learned during that OTL ordeal and the Nassar stuff that rushing to judgement based off of headlines or social media lynch mobs was not wise. 

I also find it totally fair that one would root against MSU because there were people in power (NOT Tom Izzo) who covered their eyes and ears and didn't believe the victims about the piece of shit Nassar. And because of how badly the Board and former Presidents Simon and Fat Fuck Engler botched the aftermath of it. I have to build a wall internally myself as an alum to that extent in some regards, as I'm sure Wally does. 

Izzo is good peeps. Cassius and McQuaid and Goins and Tillman right down to Foster Loyer. Good kids. Love my school. Hate the Nassar epidemic. It's shameful. 

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58 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'd go this order ^^

1. UVA cause my home state school and all, but Bennet seems to be a class act.

2. TT love a team coming out of nowhere to grab the final four spot. (and they're not a cinderella, they''re legit)

3.  MSU cause I've always loved their tournament prowess,  but fuck fuck Tom Izzo, and his pre Woody Hayes syndrome.  I'm seriously concerned what's gonna happen if  one of his players blows a late game winning or losing shot.

4. AU fuck Bruce Pearls cheating ways.

I have zero problem with Izzo going verbally postal on his player for not hustling in a huge game, that he and the player have worked all year for.  he isn't going to go postal on a guy for a physical mistake like missing a game winning shot, unless he wasn't supposed to take the shot(again mental).  rarely will you ever see any high level coach bitch out a guy for missing a shot.

That said there a few other reasons, much more important, to hate on izzo...

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15 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

I have zero problem with Izzo going verbally postal on his player for not hustling in a huge game, that he and the player have worked all year for.  he isn't going to go postal on a guy for a physical mistake like missing a game winning shot, unless he wasn't supposed to take the shot(again mental).  rarely will you ever see any high level coach bitch out a guy for missing a shot.

That said there a few other reasons, much more important, to hate on izzo...

I got no issues with a verbal assault. In their first game of the tournament he had to be physically restrained from Henry twice. In the game yesterday his players had to tell him to chill. They put hands on him to get him back into reality and focussed. The guy is on the verge of an incident.  

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Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

I got no issues with a verbal assault. In their first game of the tournament he had to be physically restrained from Henry twice. In the game yesterday his players had to tell him to chill. They put hands on him to get him back into reality and focussed. The guy is on the verge of an incident.  

yeah, that happens much more than you think with coaches getting in a players face and other players getting in between a coach and said player.  sometimes the whole thing is an act(especially the being physically restrained) to get the team to focus and to get the team to push that player that is being lazy.  like getting tossed.

just doesn't happen in a tourney as much.  and usually there is a bunch of incidents that lead up to the blow up.  If he does it unwarranted out of the blue without warning or picks on one guy vs another it can backfire big time.  he's got enough skins that it probably won't.

sure he could get physical but there is no history of it as far as I know. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I got no issues with a verbal assault. In their first game of the tournament he had to be physically restrained from Henry twice. In the game yesterday his players had to tell him to chill. They put hands on him to get him back into reality and focussed. The guy is on the verge of an incident.  

so fucking scary...

 

"on the verge of upsetting a fucking snowflake."

 

Holy fuck...if he was touching, much less striking a kid, especially on tournament time; you think the world turns to Waco PD and gives him a pass on it?

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10 minutes ago, slorch said:

Holy fuck...if he was touching, much less striking a kid, especially on tournament time; you think the world turns to Waco PD and gives him a pass on it?

In a word: yes

I'm guessing you paid zero attention to all the sexual assault allegations leveled at MSU football and basketball players in the wake of the Nassar scandal (not to mention how that school handled the allegations in a totally fucked manner a la Baylor), and how Dantonio and Izzo skated by and kept their jobs. It was Rape U 2.0 except everything got successfully swept under the rug. Fuck MSU and fuck Tom Izzo.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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OK.

Show me tape/ link/ video where Izzo struck/ physically harmed a player...

 

It should have happened by now with such a long career, right?

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21 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I got no issues with a verbal assault. In their first game of the tournament he had to be physically restrained from Henry twice. In the game yesterday his players had to tell him to chill. They put hands on him to get him back into reality and focussed. The guy is on the verge of an incident.  

Buddy, I'm not sure you read my post? And it's ok. I'm not exactly unbiased. But trust me he did not "have to be physically restrained". What was he going to do? He's very calculated. I think Henry was doing things that were effort related, and specifically coached. And so he was trying to make a point. And I also think that he wanted Cash and McQuaid to take ownership of the situation, which is exactly what happened. 

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2 minutes ago, slorch said:

OK.

Show me tape/ link/ video where Izzo struck/ physically harmed a player...

 

It should have happened by now with such a long career, right?

I'm just saying if it has happened, in practice or otherwise, I sincerely doubt anyone in East Lansing, MI would go after him for it.

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9 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

In a word: yes

I'm guessing you paid zero attention to all the sexual assault allegations leveled at MSU football and basketball players in the wake of the Nassar scandal (not to mention how that school handled the allegations in a totally fucked manner a la Baylor), and how Dantonio and Izzo skated by and kept their jobs. It was Rape U 2.0 except everything got successfully swept under the rug. Fuck MSU and fuck Tom Izzo.

Call out. I paid a lot of attention to it. A LOT. I'm guessing A LOT more than you did. Go ahead and spell this out for me, allegation by allegation so I can take you down. 

I do not cover up for my University or Coaches. If it happened. If there's evidence of it happening, full throttle, I won't accept it. I'm not an excuse maker. 

By the way Brian Fantana, I don't know your history here. I've been here for 12 years or so. Where are you from? 

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2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I'm just saying if it has happened, in practice or otherwise, I sincerely doubt anyone in East Lansing, MI would go after him for it.

and I am saying with the hatred of the athletic community in general, some of it justified; there is zero chance he is escaping sanction or penalty if evidence existed to the end of physically attacking a player.

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1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

yeah, that happens much more than you think with coaches getting in a players face and other players getting in between a coach and said player.  sometimes the whole thing is an act(especially the being physically restrained) to get the team to focus and to get the team to push that player that is being lazy.  like getting tossed.

just doesn't happen in a tourney as much.  and usually there is a bunch of incidents that lead up to the blow up.  If he does it unwarranted out of the blue without warning or picks on one guy vs another it can backfire big time.  he's got enough skins that it probably won't.

sure he could get physical but there is no history of it as far as I know. 

 

No I've seen it before, and good point about the whole it's for show thing. I just haven't seen that kind of look in a coaches eye, and the sustained period of time he was going after the kid.  There's getting in a kids face, and there's something worse verging on assault. Henry looked a little dazed the rest of the game.  I don't remember him getting a whole hell of a lot better on the floor that day.

The same thing looked like it was gonna happen again yesterday. His players literally had to talk him off the ledge, and focus him on the time out, as he was glaring at his center (I think it was) coming off the floor.  I did a little googling, and found a couple other articles that detailed incidents of his volatility, none violent, which I'm glad to hear, I've always been a fan of his program.  Hopefully he has his line, but I thought he was about to go off the deep end that first day.

I saw a coach shove a kid on the sideline earlier in the weekend, right after the kid said something in the general direction of the floor. It wasn't a malicious, lose control shove, it was shut the hell up and go sit down shove (he didn't even look at the kid). Kinda like in football, the grab the kid by the face mask, and pull him into your face to make a point thing. 

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Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Sounds like I'm outnumbered on this issue. I'll Kindly STFU.

Speaking for myself. I don't want you to STFU. The stuff you raise is worth discussing. I just wish people would look into details, and history before judging. The optics are bad. But the optics have been bad since 1997. People just seem to be noticing now, and they are not taking into consideration the details behind the optics. That is all I am asking you to do. 

I am happy that people say something when they see something they don't deem as "right". But I want people to educate themselves fully on the subject before forming harsh opinions. 

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17 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

Speaking for myself. I don't want you to STFU. The stuff you raise is worth discussing. I just wish people would look into details, and history before judging. The optics are bad. But the optics have been bad since 1997. People just seem to be noticing now, and they are not taking into consideration the details behind the optics. That is all I am asking you to do. 

I am happy that people say something when they see something they don't deem as "right". But I want people to educate themselves fully on the subject before forming harsh opinions. 

That was why I went to a google search to see if there were earlier incidents.  Like I said nothing I saw was of the physical nature but one incident with a HS kid who passed on MSU was kinda bad if it's true. He allegedly really went off on the  kid over the phone for not accepting his offer.

 

For the most part I've been called a pussy for bringing it up as an issue.  Which I can deal with if that's the case here.  Much ado about nothing.

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56 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

Call out. I paid a lot of attention to it. A LOT. I'm guessing A LOT more than you did. Go ahead and spell this out for me, allegation by allegation so I can take you down. 

I do not cover up for my University or Coaches. If it happened. If there's evidence of it happening, full throttle, I won't accept it. I'm not an excuse maker. 

By the way Brian Fantana, I don't know your history here. I've been here for 12 years or so. Where are you from? 

I only know what I read on the internet, man, and it felt a lot like what happened at Baylor. If you would like to dispute that, I'm not going to fight you about it.

Also, I have no issue with the guy screaming at a player on the sideline, fucking Chris Beard does it all the time.

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5 hours ago, phdhorn said:

I'm kinda rooting for those insufferable pricks at Tech.  Most of the Tech kids I know are burned out stoner/drunk frat types.  Another guy got his girlfriend preggo and her rich parents built them a million dollar house somewhere.  I mean that's what college is all about.

I guess second the Wahoos, but I get kinda sick of all the Virginia knob-gobbling.  But they're a good team, no doubt.  

Coming up far behind areAuburn, because I mean who the fuck wants Auburn to win anyfuckingthing, followed by (S)party With 12 Year Old Girls State (thank YOU for beating Duke now GTFO).  I don't want Izzo's permissive legacy to be buried.  I think if he wins it the first question should be, "so Tom,  your defense did a great job covering up the floor.  You obviously learned this from your PR work covering up some of your players sex activities.  How are they similar?"

So the finals are going to be Bruce Pearl vs Larry Nassar St.

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44 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That was why I went to a google search to see if there were earlier incidents.  Like I said nothing I saw was of the physical nature but one incident with a HS kid who passed on MSU was kinda bad if it's true. He allegedly really went off on the  kid over the phone for not accepting his offer.

 

For the most part I've been called a pussy for bringing it up as an issue.  Which I can deal with if that's the case here.  Much ado about nothing.

Don't back down from being called a pussy for this. I think you should stand up for what you believe in. I would be alarmed, too, if those optics were all I knew about a coach/player interaction. 

Regarding the HS kid - are we talking about Brandon Johns? That is the only thing I can think of. And I absolutely would interpret that conversation differently. He is not the type to yell at a HS kid. There was a much publicized incident regarding Delvon Roe committing to Roy at UNC under pressure, and then convincing his dad that he really wanted to go to MSU and winding up there, and Roy harping on it (without naming names) for years after the fact, and that really upset Izzo. Also Izzo is fairly close with Beilein. I don't know. I would like to read what you read. Trust me on this....Izzo is not the guy you have made him out to be in your head. He may be in between what I have made him out to be and what you have made him out to be, but this is one of the more real guys out there. 

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1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

No I've seen it before, and good point about the whole it's for show thing. I just haven't seen that kind of look in a coaches eye, and the sustained period of time he was going after the kid.  There's getting in a kids face, and there's something worse verging on assault. Henry looked a little dazed the rest of the game.  I don't remember him getting a whole hell of a lot better on the floor that day.

The same thing looked like it was gonna happen again yesterday. His players literally had to talk him off the ledge, and focus him on the time out, as he was glaring at his center (I think it was) coming off the floor.  I did a little googling, and found a couple other articles that detailed incidents of his volatility, none violent, which I'm glad to hear, I've always been a fan of his program.  Hopefully he has his line, but I thought he was about to go off the deep end that first day.

I saw a coach shove a kid on the sideline earlier in the weekend, right after the kid said something in the general direction of the floor. It wasn't a malicious, lose control shove, it was shut the hell up and go sit down shove (he didn't even look at the kid). Kinda like in football, the grab the kid by the face mask, and pull him into your face to make a point thing. 

Izzo is good at the show...its part of coaching for goodness sake.  Izzo himself said the kid started playing better.  sure he could have been BSing but whatever.  as long as he isn't getting personal and is talking/yelling about his play who cares.  funny thing was nobody jumped in early.  the players know who does and doesn't "deserve" something.   he was probably waiting for one of his players to jump in so he kept going. as a good coach you have to know your players.

give you an example, kid on my sons high school baseball team was probably the worst hitter(in a lineup of crappy hitters mind you), had no errors and close to a .400 OBP.  team was 8-8.  kid got yanked for a freshman who hadn't played one inning of varsity.  why? because the coach wanted to send a message that no job is safe.  the players on the team were...what? why him?  Team won 1 game the rest of the season. now they weren't good but they weren't near that bad.

everyone talked about Barnes doghouse, and is barking at players(yes I get that Izzo's show was much greater than what Barnes ever did), and how it was a problem.  I didn't care as long as he was fair. the problem is only the team knows what is fair.  his bigger problem was he wasn't good enough on  O to really get to the sweet 16 consistently to then have the dominoes fall right to get to an NC.  

TLDR.  Izzo can coach and my guess is he knows his players.  I'd take him(sans MSU scandal being attached to him)

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20 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I only know what I read on the internet, man, and it felt a lot like what happened at Baylor. If you would like to dispute that, I'm not going to fight you about it.

Also, I have no issue with the guy screaming at a player on the sideline, fucking Chris Beard does it all the time.

Here is the problem bro. No disrespect. But again, I learned a lot when that shit went down and there were calls here on this board and everywhere else to fire Izzo, fire Dantonio, burn the place to the ground. As you may interpret from my prior posts, I am willing to call a spade a spade and there are some things I'm disappointed about with these coaches, some MAJOR things I'm disappointed about with the University. But you can't just read headlines anymore in 2019 and go with the flow. I wish we all would hold ourselves to higher standards. Myself included. And I'm trying. 

Izzo is a stand up dude unless he's really got a lot of people fooled, including me. And I'm a pretty decent detective. 

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Sorry guys for jumping in here. I like to occasionally jump in and see what's up. I hate Duke and I am glad to see that a lot of Surl-sters were happy. But I gotta stand up for stuff that deserves standing up for. 

I'll bow out now. MSU has a lot of warts right now. I don't think Coach Izzo deserves to wear those warts based on what I know, which might be more than you know (or might not). You all do what you do, judge as you judge, and I love y'all anyway. Go Green, Go White, and Hook 'em. And good luck to Texas Tech. I'm terrified to be honest. 

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55 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That was why I went to a google search to see if there were earlier incidents.  Like I said nothing I saw was of the physical nature but one incident with a HS kid who passed on MSU was kinda bad if it's true. He allegedly really went off on the  kid over the phone for not accepting his offer.

 

For the most part I've been called a pussy for bringing it up as an issue.  Which I can deal with if that's the case here.  Much ado about nothing.

I'm certainly not calling you a pussy.  Izzo isn't stupid, every game he coaches is televised. you can like the style or not but it happens a lot, especially in the huddles. The holding back thing was just part of the show, IMO

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I'll throw my .02¢

Obviously I'm rooting for MSU - I understand how people who don't see all the games can get shocked by Izzo and his style. To be honest, there is a part of me that thinks it is over the top - sometimes it reminds me of Knight; but I think he is always in control and making a point not losing control and getting being angry for the sake of being pissed at someone. It is definitely and old school way of coaching that you don't see much of and is going away. But as baboon stated, the players, current and former, all stand behind him and what they learned about basketball and outside of basketball from their time at State.

As for the Nassar and other issues at MSU, I will stand behind my posts on Shaggy & Surly for the past 2+ years related to these issues. MSU has problems, lots of them, and they have been too slow in recognizing them and in correcting them. Spending way to much time trying to cover their own asses (Board of Trustees and Administration).
And yes there were allegations thrown out about Dantonio and Izzo, and their programs. There was a lot of smoke about things that happened, things I'm not proud of, things that as a father with both sons and daughters I hope that they are never involved in or a part of in any way (victim or accused). It was too easy for the media to pile on and show photos of Izzo and Dantonio paired with Nassar - and that was just plain wrong, if there were things done wrong in the football or basketball program they did not have anything to do with Nassar. Not trying to brush them off, but trying to look at them in a fair way.
There are things that happen on every campus - sexual assaults, physical assaults, theft, etc. - IMO, and I have some insight with people here, I will not say MSU has the cleanest sports programs, but what did happen isn't fundamentally different than things at other campus's except that when tied to Nassar it looks like East Lansing is a modern day Sodom and Gamorrah.

As for having an opinion, I think that is great and you should speak yours - but also listen to what other people have to say, maybe find out more about an issue, dig deeper than the headlines. But don't let shit be swept under the rug - because as I've seen here and it describes the Nassar situation in so many ways. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

 

Go Green!

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Minnepolis is a great town particularly the downtown with some really cool restaurants and bars ( including the rooftop bowling lawn at the British Pub) and it’s extremely clean, which means it will take a while to pressure wash Bruce Pearl’s slime trail off of the public spaces.

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Read this today, couldn't help but think of Onboard. I think this was the exchange you were referring to at the end of the game. 

 

Quote

With 1 minute and 33 seconds potentially left in the college career of Kenny Goins, Tom Izzo thought this was a good time for a lesson. He begged Goins for an answer. Why did he leave R.J. Barrett wide open for a 3-pointer, giving Duke a 64-63 lead with 2:32 left? Even worse, why did he take a terrible angle on a ball screen, leaving himself vulnerable to a left-hand drive by Zion Williamson, giving up a 66-63 advantage? Izzo wailed. All the coaches wailed. They all looked at Goins.

Finally, amid the shouting, Goins raised his voice the way only a senior can.

“Look,” he shouted, cutting through the noise, “I fucked up, but we’ve still got a game to win.” 

Lesson over. “As soon as I said that,” Goins says later, “Izzo sort of shut up, no offense to him, and moved on.”
 

 

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