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Who is more authoritarian - Trump or AOC?

Thetexashammer

By Thetexashammer
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Who is more authoritarian?  

82 members have voted

  1. 1. Trump or AOC?

    • Trump
      49
    • AOC
      11
    • Blacklab
      22

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9935

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Posted

Wow. What a question. Trump has sold the big lie to those he gives lip service to - and nothing more. 

Trump is a figurehead for a few men with more money than whatever god they blaspheme regularly. 

His supporters like him because he says Fuck You to arrogant DC types - the Republican Arrogant DC types and the Democratic Arrogant DC types. 

His buddies like him because he says he owns Trump supporters.

So . . . back to the question. 

Authoritarian means: favoring government by a small elite with wide powers. No?

President Trump is pushing the misguided notion of an Imperial Presidency in the United States to its extremes. He wasn't the first - no doubt. But rather than just occasional steps out of bounds, Trump has used his predecessors' jaunts as a justification for unlimited power of the Presidency. That is not what Trump supporters voted for. The "swamp" was a metaphor for officials who overreach. Trump has become the embodiment of government overreach. So check for element one of authoritarian - Trump's governance meets the definition of "government with wide powers." 

Is Trump running his government using a small number of elites? Again - yes. Part of that is from his distrust of "the powers that be." He wasn't voted into office to make friends with the powers that be. They are there for a reason and Congress have passed laws regarding their purpose - and the President has a duty to faithfully execute the laws of this nation.

But let's say he can go around the bureaucracy because he is not in direct violation of those laws (only the spirit of them). Again, that doesn't matter to the question. He rules by consulting a very small number of elites. Moreover, he tends to rely only on his own instincts. His immediate reactions after events tend to become forays into policy. So - yes to element two of authoritarian - he governs by consulting few. 

Trump is authoritarian. Where is he on the scale? I think one is either authoritarian or not. It is a moral choice for each human. 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a first term House member. AOC ran on a platform of inclusiveness for all humans and protecting the environment for humans. She wants to help the poor, working class, and the hollowed out middle class. AOC believes classism hurts all but the extremely few. Here is an informative read on "Classism" from the Rutgers Review. http://www.therutgersreview.com/2018/02/10/classism-americas-overlooked-problem/ The paper is an easy read and it explains the concept and dangers of "classism" well to anyone interested in issue of American Classism. From the opening of the piece:

. . . "While optimism and perseverance are admirable traits, the path to financial success in the United States is not as simple and straightforward. The chances of one becoming wealthy in this country are slim to none, and there exists many barriers that impede upon those seeking opportunity. These barriers range from discrimination based on income, race, religion, gender, gender identity and sexual orientation, the rising prices of higher education, single income households, the disenfranchisement of convicted felons, the accumulation of debt, and a lack of historical family wealth and inheritance. Today, there is an ever rising gap in economic inequality. The middle class is declining and can soon become a nonexistent entity, and more and more Americans are slipping into poverty. As the middle class continues to shrink and the poor continue to struggle, the extremely affluent – the .01 percent – and their wealth continue to grow and prosper."

So, is AOC authoritarian?  Government with wide powers? Arguably, yes. But remember she is still advocating "freedom" - freedom from economic insecurity caused by structural impediments in our system of governance. 

Does she advocate rule by a small elite. No. She doesn't. That would the opposite of what she suggests. 

Anyone answering AOC is authoritarian is just mistaken or more likely, misled. It happens to the best of us. 

Trump supporters understand Trump is a windbag. They like him because he belches at some the other windbags in the media and in DC. They see Washington as gigantic mess.

For those tired of him, but still tentatively in his camp, they know he lied to them. Their lives didn't become great under Trump. They are still walking the hard path in this country because no-one gave them a handout or a hand-up. They suffer from the structural class defects and Classism that AOC talks about. Trickle down neoliberal economics created great wealth but did not lift all boats in the US. The de-industrialization of the US for profits hurt most. And it weakened our ability to defend this nation - with unreliable supply chains. 

There is nothing authoritarian about social democracy. It just means humans have an equal say and if we agree to help all rather than a few - that is our right as the People in this nation. It doesn't do away with the political process. The political process is protected under the Constitutions. It is a delicate system of checks and balances. It works when the People elect those who will make it work for the People of the United States. 

We do need one Constitutional Amendment - and that is to end the corrupting influences in our elections and governance. These are elected representatives of the People. They owe their loyalty to the People; Corporations/"Trusts" are not the People of the United States when it comes to elections and governance. Foreign influencers are not the People of the United States.

Fair?

 

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Bumping this idiotic thread in light of Trump intervening in the Stone trial. 

Good stuff old chap.

authoritarian
[əˌTHôrəˈterēən]
 
ADJECTIVE
  1. favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
    "the transition from an authoritarian to a democratic regime"
     

Trump is governing as a conservative. He is reducing taxes and cutting regulation. Trump allegedly repealed 12 regulations for every new one. 

 

Tom Steyer is running an ad saying the first thing he will do as president is declare a state of emergency. Fuck the rule of law, that's for little people. Habeus corpus? Ain't nobody got time for that. Scary as fuck.

 

Here's what Bernie Sanders wants to do.

1. He wants a 97% income tax rate.

2. He will ban all private health care plans. 

3. He is committed to 100% renewable energy, aka a total ban on hydrocarbons. Forget driving to work I guess. Forget about trade with China. Forget about air travel.

4. He will establish nationwide rent control.

5. He will install a wealth tax. Simple confiscation of private property. What could go wrong?

6. He supports repeal of the First Amendment and publicly financed elections. 

7. He promises to give workers a stake in the companies they work for. (Through confiscation I suppose, how else would you do it.)


I am not a Trump fan but truth is what it is. Under Bernie Sanders, who spent his honeymoon in Soviet Moscow, you have NO RIGHTS, not even freedom of speech. He said bread lines were good. He said the American Dream was more likely to be realized in Venezuela than in America.

 

I know people are intelligent, it's mind bottling that they cannot comprehend basic ideas. Trump has not expanded the powers of the federal government. You will lose you freedoms and your prosperity under AOC, Sanders, or any of these massively authoritarian clowns. Good intentions are no excuse for the horror they seek to bring about. 100 million deaths last century wasn't a bug, it was a feature. 

Edited by Thetexashammer
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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9935

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Good stuff old chap.

authoritarian
[əˌTHôrəˈterēən]
 
ADJECTIVE
  1. favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
    "the transition from an authoritarian to a democratic regime"
     

Trump is governing as a conservative. He is reducing taxes and cutting regulation. Trump allegedly repealed 12 regulations for every new one. 

 

Tom Steyer is running an ad saying the first thing he will do as president is declare a state of emergency. Fuck the rule of law, that's for little people. Habeus corpus? Ain't nobody got time for that. Scary as fuck.

 

Here's what Bernie Sanders wants to do.

1. He wants a 97% income tax rate.

2. He will ban all private health care plans. 

3. He is committed to 100% renewable energy, aka a total ban on hydrocarbons. Forget driving to work I guess. Forget about trade with China. Forget about air travel.

4. He will establish nationwide rent control.

5. He will install a wealth tax. Simple confiscation of private property. What could go wrong?

6. He supports repeal of the First Amendment and publicly financed elections. 

7. He promises to give workers a stake in the companies they work for. (Through confiscation I suppose, how else would you do it.)


I am not a Trump fan but truth is what it is. Under Bernie Sanders, who spent his honeymoon in Soviet Moscow, you have NO RIGHTS, not even freedom of speech. He said bread lines were good. He said the American Dream was more likely to be realized in Venezuela than in America.

 

I know people are intelligent, it's mind bottling that they cannot comprehend basic ideas. Trump has not expanded the powers of the federal government. You will lose you freedoms and your prosperity under AOC, Sanders, or any of these massively authoritarian clowns. Good intentions are no excuse for the horror they seek to bring about. 100 million deaths last century wasn't a bug, it was a feature. 

Thanks Hammer - let me digest and then I will respond. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Good stuff old chap.

authoritarian
[əˌTHôrəˈterēən]
 
ADJECTIVE
  1. favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
    "the transition from an authoritarian to a democratic regime"
     

Trump is governing as a conservative. He is reducing taxes and cutting regulation. Trump allegedly repealed 12 regulations for every new one. 

 

Tom Steyer is running an ad saying the first thing he will do as president is declare a state of emergency. Fuck the rule of law, that's for little people. Habeus corpus? Ain't nobody got time for that. Scary as fuck.

 

Here's what Bernie Sanders wants to do.

1. He wants a 97% income tax rate.

2. He will ban all private health care plans. 

3. He is committed to 100% renewable energy, aka a total ban on hydrocarbons. Forget driving to work I guess. Forget about trade with China. Forget about air travel.

4. He will establish nationwide rent control.

5. He will install a wealth tax. Simple confiscation of private property. What could go wrong?

6. He supports repeal of the First Amendment and publicly financed elections. 

7. He promises to give workers a stake in the companies they work for. (Through confiscation I suppose, how else would you do it.)


I am not a Trump fan but truth is what it is. Under Bernie Sanders, who spent his honeymoon in Soviet Moscow, you have NO RIGHTS, not even freedom of speech. He said bread lines were good. He said the American Dream was more likely to be realized in Venezuela than in America.

 

I know people are intelligent, it's mind bottling that they cannot comprehend basic ideas. Trump has not expanded the powers of the federal government. You will lose you freedoms and your prosperity under AOC, Sanders, or any of these massively authoritarian clowns. Good intentions are no excuse for the horror they seek to bring about. 100 million deaths last century wasn't a bug, it was a feature. 

In an influential 1964 work,[4] the political scientist Juan Linz defined authoritarianism as possessing four qualities:

  1. Limited political pluralism, realized with constraints on the legislature, political parties, and interest groups;
  2. Political legitimacy based upon appeals to emotion, and identification of the regime as a necessary evil to combat "easily recognizable societal problems, such as underdevelopment, and insurgency";
  3. Minimal political mobilization and suppression of anti-regime activities;
  4. Ill-defined executive powers, often vague and shifting, which extends the power of the executive.[5][6]
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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Howdy folks, $28 billion in subsidies to the AG industry is called "governing as a conservative."

 

Moose out front.

I don't like that, but it's been done for decades. Would you call that authoritarian? I wouldn't. It's not a reduction of personal freedoms, like taking away the internal combustion engine.

Fuck, the federal government is operating the single largest, fakest, most bankrupt pension plan in the universe. It's not a purity test, it's a matter of direction. He's not growing, he's at least trying to shrink. Lower taxes, less regulation. I'd really prefer to see less spending. Spending is control. But people don't seem to care about that.

AOC/Bernie/FillInTheBlankSocialist are massively authoritarian. There's no other way to look at it. It's english. The powers to ban hydrocarbons or confiscate property or establish nationwide rent control are not within the 17 enumerated powers of the federal government.

I don't like the man but I like the policy.I'd prefer a lot more cutting, but again, we aren't a Westminster system.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted



.
 
I know people are intelligent, it's mind bottling that they cannot comprehend basic ideas.


You're right. Imagine being so stupid you equivocate nazis and brutal regimes to liberals and not the party that puts children in cages and thinks literal Nazis are good people...

100 million deaths last century wasn't a bug, it was a feature. 


What an ignorant hick. Good grief.
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yoladu

yoladu 4067

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Posted
On 5/6/2019 at 6:50 PM, Thetexashammer said:

He made a simple, declarative statement. Your inability to comprehend the meaning doesn't render it gibberish. It's more of a statement regarding your ability to understand the written word.

Wait? you are author of this statement below, right?

AOC wants to ban 25% of the economy and force everyone to bike to work, that's not authoritarian? 

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yoladu

yoladu 4067

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Posted
3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

OK, if I have to bike to work every day I'm gonna have to start drinking a lot earlier, because this beer gut isn't just magic.

i gotta side with TexasHammer on this one. How does OAC plan to enforce this forced biking of everyone?

To find out, i googled OAC + Bikes.. and the only hits i got were :

01) a right wing website claiming OAC drafted legislation to ban motorcycles - (of course)

02) Snopes - documenting that that the above is a complete fabrication.

 

back to the drawing board

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Js1

Js1 85109

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

One is the president of the United States and the other is a freshman congresswoman from NY whose biggest influence will probably be as a judge on RuPaul’s Drag Race. Beyond the premise being stupid, I honestly don’t understand the obsession here

Well, I, too, pledge allegiance to the Drag. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, yoladu said:

i gotta side with TexasHammer on this one. How does OAC plan to enforce this forced biking of everyone?

To find out, i googled OAC + Bikes.. and the only hits i got were :

01) a right wing website claiming OAC drafted legislation to ban motorcycles - (of course)

02) Snopes - documenting that that the above is a complete fabrication.

 

back to the drawing board

I also wonder if some of the news was misappropriated soundbites with respect to an issue that she was commenting upon with respect to her district, you know where the people who elected her live. It had to do with bike lanes. Here are some tweets rather than copy/paste of the relevant news articles:

Edit- there were more tweets regarding this topic, but not necessary for the Trump vs AOC discussion

Edited by Mrs Whiggins
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Js1

Js1 85109

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Posted
10 minutes ago, yoladu said:

i gotta side with TexasHammer on this one. How does OAC plan to enforce this forced biking of everyone?

To find out, i googled OAC + Bikes.. and the only hits i got were :

01) a right wing website claiming OAC drafted legislation to ban motorcycles - (of course)

02) Snopes - documenting that that the above is a complete fabrication.

 

back to the drawing board

The Ohio Athletic Conference is super authoritarian! 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

holy shit, forgot about that guy. he's been around... a while

i just googled the dude, and apparently he hasn't posted since 2017. 

back in the day, i used to post on texags for the lulz, and also to try and understand our aggie brethren. since they went sec, they've gone turbo aggie, and i cannot handle to really even peruse that board any longer.

but damn, back in the day, branding iron, his jag, and his ever present wrong predictions/statements were fucking funny shit. aggy personified.

 

Edited by hayden_horn
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hpslugga

hpslugga 4044

Posted
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

he's our political version of 13-0 branding iron from texags. he really is about as texags a poster as we have here.

We seem to have a few here that gleefully compete for that spot. It’s quite embarrassing to observe it. The only thing they’ve stopped short of is referring to the republicans as “daddy GOP.”

Edited by hpslugga
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