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Things seem to be going quite well for Joe Biden

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Who said anything about a 4 year process?

The person I was responding to who said that "2024 is when policies will matter again."

Constructive criticism: You should read what you are responding to.

Quote

 You are making these demands of the contractor while the arsonist is still inside.  We aren't even at day 1 of a Biden term.  We need to get to day 1 first.So yes, we should make those demands of him while he is President. And we should even make those demands loudly while he is President.  We should absolutely never shut up about it for the four years of his term if he gets one.  But he actually needs to become President first.

Is us making those demands of him now going to hurt his ability to become president? If so, how?

In my mind, him becoming a progressive and substantive candidate will make him far more likely to win in November vs the complete dogshit he is right now.

Quote

I get that there is something inside you that wants the whole house to just burn down because Bernie isn't getting elected.  You're gonna need to learn to let that go.

I never even had it in the first place to be able to let go of it. This is you imagining that you're talking to someone you aren't because it strokes your ego.

You guys are far more obsessed with Bernie today than I have been since the evening of Super Tuesday. You're seeing him in conversations where he doesn't exist.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

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"We need to continue pushing for M4A because Joe's plan is bad."

- "BERNIE FUCKING LOST, OK!?"

"Yeah, I know, but climate change is extremely pressing and we need a Green New Deal. We should present that as a litmus test for all candidates."

- "GOD DAMNIT, B_T, BERNIE LOST!"

"Yes, but the US remains the #1 jailer of its own citizens in the world. We need to end private prisons and cash bail."

- "BERNIE SANDERS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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Posted
28 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

OK, this is good.

Trump and the GOP absolutely make voter suppression worse. I don't know how they impact the EC, but I guess we could put that down to something like gerrymandering?

these two are a good start.

voter suppression is something the republicans do and everybody knows it's bad.  the electoral college is something that isn't "inherently bad", it's just horribly outdated and needs revamping or replacing.  keeping it saves the gop, and it's a harder sell to fix, as going to popular vote would doom the republicans for decades.

31 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What are some foundational problems Trump has created that only a conservative approach can address?

jesus, again with the just asking questions.  nobody said there are foundational problems that only a conservative approach can address.  i said there were huge issues with the foundation (of the metaphorical house) that need to be repaired before we can think about policy shift.  building on shit is just more shit.

trump has torn down the structure that, for better or worse, made dc run (not to mention govt roles throughout the world).  we're talking about "non-partisan" agencies and career public servants who have been run off in favor of short-term, "acting" officials with a political agenda.  we're talking about needing to completely rebuild the state department.  the justice department.  there's a complete and total dysfunctional mistrust between the branches.  there's an entire intelligence apparatus that once informed the government, and now is somehow portrayed in a way as to not be trusted or believed.

much of what has happened in response to the pandemic can be directly tied to this.  we defunded parts of the cdc, took people out of china that were previously our first line of defense and awareness against an outbreak like specifically this.  we have empty seats on the who.  we have people in dc scrambling around and pointing fingers because the only employees left have no idea what they're doing.

this will be a transition like we haven't seen in a century.  so no, it's not just about bringing new ideas to the table and building a much better house.  this is actually a hidden reason why a "normalcy" candidate like biden will likely have a better time.  someone looking for sweeping change would spend their first 2 years just cleaning up the mess and wouldn't get shit done.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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Posted
7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

"We need to continue pushing for M4A because Joe's plan is bad."

- "BERNIE FUCKING LOST, OK!?"

"Yeah, I know, but climate change is extremely pressing and we need a Green New Deal. We should present that as a litmus test for all candidates."

- "GOD DAMNIT, B_T, BERNIE LOST!"

"Yes, but the US remains the #1 jailer of its own citizens in the world. We need to end private prisons and cash bail."

- "BERNIE SANDERS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

in all your reenactments, you sound so sensible and we sound like a bunch of nutjobs.  it's entertaining.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The person I was responding to who said that "2024 is when policies will matter again."

Constructive criticism: You should read what you are responding to.

 

Perhaps you should read what you are responding to.  I was the only one you quoted when you said "If Biden wins, Trump is out of office in January of 2021. The arsonist is gone right then. It's not a 4-year process."  And the arsonist analogy to Trump was my analogy.  You certainly weren't responding to Biff in any place except your mind.  23 minutes passed already so its also too late for you to go and edit Biff into your post.  Tough luck, huh?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

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Posted
6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

nobody said there are foundational problems that only a conservative approach can address. 

Again, completely false. Read Biff's post to which I was responding.

I know you guys are eager to yell at me all hours of the day, but you really should fucking read what you're responding to.

 

Quote

 we're talking about "non-partisan" agencies and career public servants who have been run off in favor of short-term, "acting" officials with a political agenda.  we're talking about needing to completely rebuild the state department.  the justice department.  there's a complete and total dysfunctional mistrust between the branches.  there's an entire intelligence apparatus that once informed the government, and now is somehow portrayed in a way as to not be trusted or believed.

much of what has happened in response to the pandemic can be directly tied to this.  we defunded parts of the cdc, took people out of china that were previously our first line of defense and awareness against an outbreak like specifically this.  we have empty seats on the who.  we have people in dc scrambling around and pointing fingers because the only employees left have no idea what they're doing.

this will be a transition like we haven't seen in a century.  so no, it's not just about bringing new ideas to the table and building a much better house.  this is actually a hidden reason why a "normalcy" candidate like biden will likely have a better time.  someone looking for sweeping change would spend their first 2 years just cleaning up the mess and wouldn't get shit done.

So, in your mind, if Joe Biden were telling Congress to pass M4A and the GND then he wouldn't be able to...
- staff agencies with competent public servants
- rebuild the state department
- staff the justice department
- fund the CDC

Seriously? This is your argument?

lol

You do realize that Joe Biden actually does propose reforms that are different from what existed under Obama in 2016? Right? He's proposing an HUGE healthcare change, for instance.

You're just parroting a sales job without any critical analysis.

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

Perhaps you should read what you are responding to.  I was the only one you quoted when you said "If Biden wins, Trump is out of office in January of 2021. The arsonist is gone right then. It's not a 4-year process."  And the arsonist analogy to Trump was my analogy.  You certainly weren't responding to Biff in any place except your mind.  23 minutes passed already so its also too late for you to go and edit Biff into your post.  Tough luck, huh?

In the initial post that you quoted to begin this between us, who was I talking to?

This is sad, Fondren.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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Posted
12 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Again, completely false. Read Biff's post to which I was responding.

I know you guys are eager to yell at me all hours of the day, but you really should fucking read what you're responding to.

when i write something to you, and you quote it and respond back to me, and i quote you in response and say "nobody said blah blah blah" i meant nobody in our specific interactions.  if you're responding to me, i'm only commenting on our quoted conversations, not something biff said.  i'll be more specific next time.

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Message Board User

Message Board User 12395

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It’s important to remember that gay marriage was opposed by Obama in 2008...and now its mainstream.

The point is that some of the more progressive agenda items supported by the Bernie Bros will likely happen at some point - it’s just going to take more time.  I do think that Student loan forgiveness and M4all in some form will become mainstream, even in a Biden presidency.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Again, completely false. Read Biff's post to which I was responding.

I know you guys are eager to yell at me all hours of the day, but you really should fucking read what you're responding to.

 

So, in your mind, if Joe Biden were telling Congress to pass M4A and the GND then he wouldn't be able to...
- staff agencies with competent public servants
- rebuild the state department
- staff the justice department
- fund the CDC

Seriously? This is your argument?

lol

You do realize that Joe Biden actually does propose reforms that are different from what existed under Obama in 2016? Right? He's proposing an HUGE healthcare change, for instance.

You're just parroting a sales job without any critical analysis.

In the initial post that you quoted to begin this between us, who was I talking to?

This is sad, Fondren.

You failed to use the quote function for your initial contractor post. Regardless, as a mirror world Trumpist, I know its tough for you to grasp the fact that Henry and I are having this conversation with you now, not Biff. We all have our own individual opinions and are not a monolith.  Perhaps you should stop trying to argue with Biff when you are actually arguing with others. We are all just replying to Parliament here really, right?

Your slimeball redirects aren't gonna help you avoid the issue.  Now isn't the time for attacks on Biden. Simple as that.  Try as you might to move the goalposts around, the FG already sailed through them.

And I agree its sad. Glad you are finally realizing you need help. 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20912

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

OK, this is good.

Trump and the GOP absolutely make voter suppression worse. I don't know how they impact the EC, but I guess we could put that down to something like gerrymandering?

IMO there are 2 types of voter suppression

1. The actual measures the GOP has implemented to suppress voters

2. The overall effects of the electoral college that generally make our voter turnout much lower than other countries that use the popular vote

 

I truly believe abolishing the electoral college is the most important change needed. 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

The point is that some of the more progressive agenda items supported by the Bernie Bros will likely happen at some point - it’s just going to take more time.  I do think that Student loan forgiveness and M4all in some form will become mainstream, even in a Biden presidency.

I also feel this way, but it's not a certainty. It's only through consistent pressure from the bottom-up that these kinds of changes happen. We need to never stop pushing.

19 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Your slimeball redirects aren't gonna help you avoid the issue.  Now isn't the time for attacks on Biden. Simple as that. 

Yes, it is. It is never wrong to critically analyze power and the people who seek it.

I'm not an authoritarian.

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

Bernie endorsing Biden will mean nothing to the berniebros

Yes. What does that tell you?

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burntorangebongos

burntorangebongos 10710

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes. What does that tell you?

We were told by the intelligence community that Bernie's social media had lots of bots created by Russia. I think they hardened the bros and made them more entrenched. It is what happened on the other side with the Trumpers. Cults of personality are vulnerable to the, X or Die! messaging. It was very successful with Trump so why wouldn't they do it again on the other side since he is a cult of personality as well?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

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Just now, burntorangebongos said:

We were told by the intelligence community that Bernie's social media had lots of bots created by Russia. I think they hardened the bros and made them more entrenched. It is what happened on the other side with the Trumpers. Cults of personality are vulnerable to the, X or Die! messaging. It was very successful with Trump so why wouldn't they do it again on the other side since he is a cult of personality as well?

lol Russia, of course

#Resistbrain in full effect

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

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Posted
5 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I actually tip my cap to your audacity in claiming it’s everyone else here who is obsessed with Bernie and that’s why threads you post in devolve the way they do.

You guys bring him up way more than I do. Those are just the facts. The posts are here for you to read.

4 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

Amazing you won't believe the intelligence community about this. It was a real thing and I made a logical observation as to a factor of the why that you posed.

So the idea that Russian bots convinced left-leaning people to love Bernie so much they didn't listen to Bernie is "a logical observation" in your mind? lol ok :)

The reality is that Bernie's support came largely from people who believe strongly in progressive policy and hate the Democratic establishment, neither of which changes because Bernie lost the primary. So when Bernie asks them to de-emphasize their beliefs, they don't listen.

The problem you're having is not realizing that it was never a cult of personality to begin with.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

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Posted
5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Not reading all the past pages but has bt called Bernie a Republican troll yet after he endorsed Biden?

Bernie has always suffered from decorum-poisoning. He's nice and always has been.

It's why he couldn't actually run an anti-establishment insurgent campaign successfully.

(Bernie talk not initiated by me still not going away.)

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19068

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Posted
1 minute ago, burntorangebongos said:

Not as awful as Bernie. 

I don’t think I agree with that. 

Bernie got paid off in 2016 and set himself up to be in really really good shape in 2020 until the establishment got their act together at the last possible second to stop him from getting nominated. Bernie’s problem is that he’s an avowed socialist in a country where more or less 50% of the people hate that and another 25% dislike it. With the shitty hand that his beliefs/ideals give him he’s probably played that about as close to POTUS as could realistically be done- he’s the left’s version of Ted Cruz. 

Warren, on the other hand, had all the momentum, the media running interference for her and just committed all sorts of terrible political moves again and again and again. 

Now, being the lone hold out she will get nothing out of it. 

Theres a reason for B_t’s hat tip and that’s he’s a sociopath (or online troll) that wants to watch the world burn.  Basically if he applauds a move it’s probably terrible, politically, for whoever made it. 

These last two posts have nothing to do with ideology- I’m taking about brass tacks of how to accomplish what you want to accomplish politically. I think Warren is the worst at it. 

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'stache

'stache 21801

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Bernie endorsing Biden will mean nothing to the berniebros

Well, they're a very small part of Bernie's base. Most are just very progressive and prefer him greatly over a moderate like Biden. But Biden vs. Trump is a no brainer, and the vast majority of Bernie supporters will happily vote for Biden as it is a vote against Trump. Some will stay home, and a small part will vote for Trump simply to troll, but again, I don't see that as a very big part of Bernie's base. I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary, and for Warren in this primary. I wish Biden was more progressive, but if he's what is needed at this point in time to get rid of the orange menace, so be it. His ability to speak like a normal old person, as opposed to a toddler in an old man's suit, is enough of a difference to get my support.

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3083

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

these two are a good start.

voter suppression is something the republicans do and everybody knows it's bad.  the electoral college is something that isn't "inherently bad", it's just horribly outdated and needs revamping or replacing.  keeping it saves the gop, and it's a harder sell to fix, as going to popular vote would doom the republicans for decades.

jesus, again with the just asking questions.  nobody said there are foundational problems that only a conservative approach can address.  i said there were huge issues with the foundation (of the metaphorical house) that need to be repaired before we can think about policy shift.  building on shit is just more shit.

trump has torn down the structure that, for better or worse, made dc run (not to mention govt roles throughout the world).  we're talking about "non-partisan" agencies and career public servants who have been run off in favor of short-term, "acting" officials with a political agenda.  we're talking about needing to completely rebuild the state department.  the justice department.  there's a complete and total dysfunctional mistrust between the branches.  there's an entire intelligence apparatus that once informed the government, and now is somehow portrayed in a way as to not be trusted or believed.

much of what has happened in response to the pandemic can be directly tied to this.  we defunded parts of the cdc, took people out of china that were previously our first line of defense and awareness against an outbreak like specifically this.  we have empty seats on the who.  we have people in dc scrambling around and pointing fingers because the only employees left have no idea what they're doing.

this will be a transition like we haven't seen in a century.  so no, it's not just about bringing new ideas to the table and building a much better house.  this is actually a hidden reason why a "normalcy" candidate like biden will likely have a better time.  someone looking for sweeping change would spend their first 2 years just cleaning up the mess and wouldn't get shit done.

The winner take all aspect of the electoral college is inherently regarded. It is total garbage that votes in battleground states are worth so much more than elsewhere. 

It's indefensible that 3 million more citizens voted for someone other than the clown who became president (and it wasn't even close in the EC). 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

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11 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Theres a reason for B_t’s hat tip and that’s he’s a sociopath (or online troll) that wants to watch the world burn.

I actually support policies that would prevent this and I'm not willing to give up on them because the mainstream media told me to. :)

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

The winner take all aspect of the electoral college is inherently regarded. It is total garbage that votes in battleground states are worth so much more than elsewhere. 

It's indefensible that 3 million more citizens voted for someone other than the clown who became president (and it wasn't even close in the EC). 

yep.

there's no real, genuine argument for keeping the ec intact.

in response, trump has said something like, "so you do away with the electoral college, then it's only important to go to the big, populated cities and nowhere else matters."  of course right now, you could argue that it's only important to go to the 5 states that will swing the election, and that's a much smaller amount of people that control a huge decision.

if every vote counts, then you should have to campaign to every voter.  that's how simple the argument should be.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26440

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Posted
3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

yep.

there's no real, genuine argument for keeping the ec intact.

in response, trump has said something like, "so you do away with the electoral college, then it's only important to go to the big, populated cities and nowhere else matters."  of course right now, you could argue that it's only important to go to the 5 states that will swing the election, and that's a much smaller amount of people that control a huge decision.

if every vote counts, then you should have to campaign to every voter.  that's how simple the argument should be.

I don’t like the electoral college but I agree with the bottom line- the Democrats lost a big part of the their historic rural and working class base because they stopped talking to them. The GOP, to their credit, hasn’t stopped trying in cities or blue places, and the numbers they pick up there are crucial 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18852

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Posted
52 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Bernie has always suffered from decorum-poisoning. He's nice and always has been.

It's why he couldn't actually run an anti-establishment insurgent campaign successfully.

(Bernie talk not initiated by me still not going away.)

The biggest mistake Bernie ever made was running as a Democrat.

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