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Joaquin Phoenix as Joker

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

1) Joaquin Phoenix is inspired casting for Joker.  Once they announced it, I was like "Holy shit.  Of course."

but

2) The heavy handed bullying seems a little too on the nose and makes for a trite pretty dumb looking back story.  

Phoenix could play a great Joker, but having The Hangover dude do it?  lol no thanks.

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Fud

Fud 9552

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Not many, if any actors, had three better performances this decade than Joaquin in You Were Never Really Here, Inherent Vice, and Her. I hope the movie as a whole hits the mark.

It appears this director has basically just done comedies, and that's it, which lowers my expectations 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11362

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40 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

1) Joaquin Phoenix is inspired casting for Joker.  Once they announced it, I was like "Holy shit.  Of course."

but

2) The heavy handed bullying seems a little too on the nose and makes for a trite pretty dumb looking back story.  

it looks like this is set in the 80s?

things were a bit different in new york in the 80s. i could see some of the bullying in the trailer actually being not as heavy handed as it appeared, given that setting. 

and of course the joker has mommy issues.

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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38 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Phoenix could play a great Joker, but having The Hangover dude do it?  lol no thanks.

Why?

Do you seriously think The Hangover isn't a good movie? 

I would argue that good comedy is harder to pull off than good drama. 

Just because someone directs comedies doesn't mean they can't get it done in another genre. Look at Adam McKay... he did Anchorman and Talledaga Nights before he was doing stuff like The Big Short and Vice.

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21856

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

1) Joaquin Phoenix is inspired casting for Joker.  Once they announced it, I was like "Holy shit.  Of course."

but

2) The heavy handed bullying seems a little too on the nose and makes for a trite pretty dumb looking back story.  

I think Phoenix may end up being absolutely perfect in this.  It'll be dark AF, but he can get into the head of a demented character pretty easily.

The bullying is a necessary element, it would seem.

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

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https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/they-re-gonna-fuck-up-this-new-joker-movie-and-i-m-alre-1833775528

 

Quote

So it’s depressing, and not in a sad clown way, to watch the Joker trailer and see that director Todd Phillips is going ahead and filming the pitiable Joker origin story that Ledger and TDK director Christopher Nolan steadfastly endeavored to ignore. In the The Dark Knight, the Joker shows up in Gotham City sui generis. His past is as much of a fucking joke to him as anything else. But this trailer makes it clear that we’re gonna have to watch Phoenix’s Arthur Fleck get bullied and traumatized until he snaps, likely past an hour into the running time, before he finally does some of the cool crime shit we paid to see. Right now, the movie basically looks like Falling Down but with a clown, and with a predictable tagline (“Put on a happy face”) to boot.

I think Deadspin is right that the mystery of the backstory is better than knowing.  Howeva, Falling Down But With A Clown sounds like it would be a great movie.

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4007

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1 hour ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Why?

Do you seriously think The Hangover isn't a good movie? 

I would argue that good comedy is harder to pull off than good drama. 

Just because someone directs comedies doesn't mean they can't get it done in another genre. Look at Adam McKay... he did Anchorman and Talledaga Nights before he was doing stuff like The Big Short and Vice.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think McKay is a good example.  Big Short and Vice have a lot of humor built in that make them great.  That doesn't appear to be the direction this movie is going for.

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TrashMaster G

TrashMaster G 17557

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Just now, bernorange said:

Joker isn't just "one of the villains".  He is the most compelling Batman villain and a story is only as good as it's villain.

Ok, fine.  I'd argue that Thanos is a pretty compelling villain as well.  We sure as hell didn't need an entire movie's worth of exposition on him to appreciate his role in the MCU.  

DC still doesn't get it.  Batman vs Superman is a fight that should have lasted about 3 seconds, with 2 of those being Superman deciding just how badly to hurt him.  The Justice League vs Joker should last slightly longer.  Anybody with power enough to take them on shouldn't be doing the Joker's bidding. 

 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52503

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I think JP could craft an amazing Joker, and probably will.  But that trailer doesn’t give me the manic vibe that Joker should have, and how jack and heath (and Caesar and hamill) played him. 

I’m getting emo misfit that snaps. Hope that’s not how it is. I don’t need a Dylan klebold origin story. 

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Helobious

Helobious 9454

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46 minutes ago, futureman said:

more compelling than the penguin?  or mr. freeze?

My sarcasm meter may be broken. Yes, he is, by a lot. Arguably the most iconic comic book villain ever. I always felt that his lack of a backstory is what made him more compelling, now this movie is trying to take that away.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3916

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22 minutes ago, Helobious said:

My sarcasm meter may be broken. Yes, he is, by a lot. Arguably the most iconic comic book villain ever. I always felt that his lack of a backstory is what made him more compelling, now this movie is trying to take that away.

I'd say he or Lex Luthor are the two most iconic villains of all-time in the genre.  There are some which approach those two like Dr. Doom or Magneto or maybe Green Goblin, but those two are the most famous.  And Burton gave him backstory and not a lot of folks were bitching and moaning about Jack's portrayal.  Joker actually has always had a backstory in the comics which has evolved over time.  What would be cool is a Red Hood story which would lead into the Joker.  Also, this Joker and movie is its own thing and will operate in its own universe, it may end up as a stand alone movie.

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Longhornfan1024

Longhornfan1024 1707

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Posted (edited)

My take with the caveat that this is just the first trailer, so things could change (including an unreliable narrative bait-and-switch):

If this weren't a Joker movie, it would come off as a slightly interesting but fairly generic take on a guy losing his sanity and then snapping due to trauma related to bullying and his relationship with his mother.  There's nothing all that new or exciting about guy has hard life, guy snaps, guy does bad things as a story.  This could be a good version of that due to JP being a great actor.

Making this into a Joker movie will just create two reactions of either (1) you can't give Joker a back story, this sucks or (2) it looks like a badass way to be creative with a Joker origin story.  There will, of course, we extremists on both sides, especially the first.  I tend to fall in the former category.  Part of what makes Joker such a compelling villain is that his insanity and evil go beyond the norm--he's not only the bad guy that other bad guys fear, but he also has no redeeming qualities.  Giving him a sympathetic back story of abuse and trauma undermines those characteristics.  

Edited by Longhornfan1024
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ajax

ajax 2617

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I dunno man. I think that trailer looks amazing. It looks compelling. Even if it undermines the Joker mystique, give me a good story well-told and I'm happy.

It'l be interesting to see how things shake out with DC because they seem to be getting their legs. This looks great. Shazam will be a critical hit and likely a commercial hit. Suicide Squad 2 should be in good hands with Gunn.

However, they did hire the Wrinkle in Time director to make a movie so jury is definitely still out.

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Longhornfan1024

Longhornfan1024 1707

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3 minutes ago, ajax said:

I dunno man. I think that trailer looks amazing. It looks compelling. Even if it undermines the Joker mystique, give me a good story well-told and I'm happy.

It'l be interesting to see how things shake out with DC because they seem to be getting their legs. This looks great. Shazam will be a critical hit and likely a commercial hit. Suicide Squad 2 should be in good hands with Gunn.

However, they did hire the Wrinkle in Time director to make a movie so jury is definitely still out.

I guess that's my main issue right now and sort of the point I was trying to make with my first paragraph.  It could very well be a good movie.  But if it's as simple as the teaser indicates that the story is bad stuff happens to guy, guy snaps, guy does bad things, then why even make it a Joker movie?  You could give the character any name and it's the same movie.  For it to be a Joker movie that I would be interested in, there needs to be more than bad guy does bad things because bad things happened to bad guy.  

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52503

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I liked the burton backstory because it took an already bad guy, gave him one incredible traumatic event, and produced an even badder guy. All the better that it was Batman that caused the event, and even more better that the whole backstory took about 30 minutes and was tied to batman’s origin story. Also, I was 12 when it came out. 

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smuggs

smuggs 9353

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2 hours ago, TrashMaster G said:

Anybody with power enough to take them on shouldn't be doing the Joker's bidding. 

 

I suppose you would have walked into the room and told Pablo Escobar to pound sand and that you were now in charge of selling la cocaína?

He probably would have immediately relented because physically he was kind of a pussy.

 

 

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TrashMaster G

TrashMaster G 17557

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30 minutes ago, smuggs said:

 

I suppose you would have walked into the room and told Pablo Escobar to pound sand and that you were now in charge of selling la cocaína?

He probably would have immediately relented because physically he was kind of a pussy.

 

 

I'm talking about someone with powers to rival Superman or Wonder Woman.  Pablo Escobar wouldn't scare them a bit.

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A-Tex Devil

A-Tex Devil 2446

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(1) Is it me, or is this a King of Comedy remake right down to <wink> <wink> DeNiro as Jerry Lewis equivalent and the mommy issues?

(2) It's only good if it is Rated R (looking at you Suicide Squad). 

I think Todd Phillips can do a good job.  War Dogs, recently, was pretty good.  And despite the Road Trip/Old School/Hangover resume, my understanding is that the dude is pretty cerebral.

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Fud

Fud 9552

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5 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Why?

Do you seriously think The Hangover isn't a good movie? 

I would argue that good comedy is harder to pull off than good drama. 

Just because someone directs comedies doesn't mean they can't get it done in another genre. Look at Adam McKay... he did Anchorman and Talledaga Nights before he was doing stuff like The Big Short and Vice. 

It's not that he directs comedies, it's that every single once of the movies he's directed over his 20+ year career has been a comedy. It seems like an unnecessary risk, and a reason for skepticism and lowered expectations. 

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Nivek

Nivek 16933

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3 hours ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

My take with the caveat that this is just the first trailer, so things could change (including an unreliable narrative bait-and-switch):

If this weren't a Joker movie, it would come off as a slightly interesting but fairly generic take on a guy losing his sanity and then snapping due to trauma related to bullying and his relationship with his mother.  There's nothing all that new or exciting about guy has hard life, guy snaps, guy does bad things as a story.  This could be a good version of that due to JP being a great actor.

Making this into a Joker movie will just create two reactions of either (1) you can't give Joker a back story, this sucks or (2) it looks like a badass way to be creative with a Joker origin story.  There will, of course, we extremists on both sides, especially the first.  I tend to fall in the former category.  Part of what makes Joker such a compelling villain is that his insanity and evil go beyond the norm--he's not only the bad guy that other bad guys fear, but he also has no redeeming qualities.  Giving him a sympathetic back story of abuse and trauma undermines those characteristics.  

Part of the fun of Heath Ledger's Joker was that he told different backstories.   

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Drew

Drew 2409

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7 hours ago, speed817 said:

will probably be bad because DC

Well if you take out Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and looks like Shazam...sure all DC movies suck.

5 hours ago, bernorange said:

Joker isn't just "one of the villains".  He is the most compelling Batman villain and a story is only as good as it's villain.

Absolutely.  And thanks to the writing of the character in the 80's, and both Mark Hamill(MY Joker) and Heath's work...that character has reached epic proportions.

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