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Joaquin Phoenix as Joker

Jograves

By Jograves
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Posted
5 hours ago, ajax said:

When the first couple of teasers came out, I legit thought the director was Todd Haynes or Todd Solondz. I had to look up Todd Phillips to find out it's the Hangover guy. 

I just want a naked Ken Jeong with Joker face paint to pop out of a trunk and start beating the shit out of somebody.

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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12639

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Posted

The more I think about it, the more stunned I am that there's never been an adaptation of the original "The Man Who Laughs". Hell, every version of Joker that's ever been owes a debt to Victor Hugo, and yet nobody talks about it.

I for one am excited about this reinterpretation if for no other reason than a lot of the source material is getting re-referenced in a new context. It's hard to argue that Heath Leger is anything other than "the best Joker" but that doesn't mean the story is now static. It can be reinvented any damned way a filmmaker pleases, and so long as they do it well, I have no objection.

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Drew

Drew 2517

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It's amazing to me how many classic interpretations of 1 character(and a comic book character at that) there are for the Joker.  Cesar Romero is how many people were introduced to the character, and his cartoony villain interpretation was fun to watch when I was kid.  Of course Jack did it in Batman opposite Keaton, but some feel he was just playing himself as the Joker(and it worked on so many levels). 

My personal Favorite version is the Mark Hamill animated one(just like Kevin Conroy is MY Batman), but with it being in an animated format I can see why others might not feel the same.

Ledger's version is the one that broke the mold and what everyone is being judged by, not just for the Joker, but anyone taking on a juicy character like that.

Lots of people didn't like the Leto version(because they don't realize he's playing a very specific version of the Joker that many aren't comfortable with, or flat don't know about), but there's no doubt he dived into that role.

And now this version looks to take it to a whole different level.  Will it be better than Ledger's? I don't know. Looks like a completely different version of the Joker(once again), but I bet it's going to be pretty on par with his portrayal.

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

Posted
Posted (edited)

War Dogs was trash, to whomever cited that as evidence that this comedy director has recent wins or chops.

From the trailer, my opinion this movie is going to be awesome. Heath Ledger's completely insane and random and chaotic evil Joker isn't real because it isn't human. In the same way there is no such thing as a human being able to inform true randomness there could never be a character like he portrayed that didn't have elements of what we saw in the trailer, namely experiences and influences (however subtle or sub/unconscious they may be) that shaped the psychosis of him as a person. Having a fully baked insane and unreliable adult narrator introduced via being air dropped into the middle of an action arc story is fun in the same way that any fantasy/sci-fi that uses potions and magic to do something supernatural is fun, because it breaks the glass of the limits of known human condition and phenomena, but it's not real. 

This movie looks like it's attempting something real which takes it's own (different from Ledgers joker, to be sure, but maybe equally difficult) awesome acting skills and abilities. I also think for those immediately decrying there are external things that happen to Joker to influence who he becomes as some sort of automatic justification for creating sympathy or framing Joker as a tragedy should remember the difference between reasons versus excuses where reasons are just facts that communicate and inform and excuses attempt to appeal to emotion and justify. Just because there are reasons that Arthur was a sad sack weirdo who snapped doesn't mean they have to elevate Joker into a tragic character worthy of sympathy (though our differences in what appeals to us mean our mileage may vary).

Lastly, I thought the evolution physically even in just the 2 minutes was encouraging. Going from a malnourished frail chainsmoker body into someone with a bit of snap in his dance step and some swag means maybe we are going to see that fun metamorphosis that happens when someone dying on the vine finds that vein and is pumped full of passion and energy and life.

Edited by Rougarou
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89787

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Posted
Spoiler

Anybody think Arthur kills/shoots those three well-dressed dudes on the train, and that’s what Thomas Wayne is referring to in his TV interview?  Maybe they worked for Wayne    

Spitballing here, but if he gets his ass kicked by the kids earlier in the day, he spirals in a bit, gets a gun to protect himself, then these dudes kick his ass and he goes full Bernie Goetz on them.   And the NY subway shooting was around 84 or 85    

 

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Longhornfan1024

Longhornfan1024 1707

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I think you make a number of good points, but how real do we really want to make Batman and the Joker?  If you really focus on trying to explain them in a realistic way, don’t you at some point come to the conclusion that their whole world is so outrageous it’s not really possible to make it real?  Trying to make it real, if anything, will make it seem LESS plausible because their characters are so fundamentally unreal and cartoonish.  

To most people, The Dark Knight felt the most “real” of the Batman movies because it was visceral and intense, not because they came up with a way to make the audience think it would really happen. You were just dropped into that world and had to roll with it, and since they never provided additional context the audience was never triggered to consider whether that context made sense.  

I think The Dark Knight Rises suffered from the opposite.  They tried to come up with a scenario where Bane could hold Gotham hostage for months and nothing “real” would happen like the military just storming in and shooting him.   It was a big mess, and trying to introduce that reality just made you poke holes in all the ways it didn’t add up.  

If a story is fundamentally unreal, I think it’s best to just embrace that world as speaking for itself and not try to view it from the lens of our reality.  The audience will accept that The Force just does things that aren’t real and that they don’t fully understand.  They don’t like being told about how midi-chlorian counts create all of that.

Trigger warning next time, please.

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ajax

ajax 2620

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

I think you make a number of good points, but how real do we really want to make Batman and the Joker?  If you really focus on trying to explain them in a realistic way, don’t you at some point come to the conclusion that their whole world is so outrageous it’s not really possible to make it real?  Trying to make it real, if anything, will make it seem LESS plausible because their characters are so fundamentally unreal and cartoonish.  

To most people, The Dark Knight felt the most “real” of the Batman movies because it was visceral and intense, not because they came up with a way to make the audience think it would really happen. You were just dropped into that world and had to roll with it, and since they never provided additional context the audience was never triggered to consider whether that context made sense.  

I think The Dark Knight Rises suffered from the opposite.  They tried to give some of the more unrealistic Batman characters deep back stories.  They tried to come up with a scenario to explain how Bane could hold Gotham hostage for months and nothing “real” would happen like the military just storming in and shooting him.   It was a big mess, and trying to introduce that reality just made you poke holes in all the ways it didn’t add up.  

If a story is fundamentally unreal, I think it’s best to just embrace that world as speaking for itself and not try to view it from the lens of our reality.  The audience will accept that The Force just does things that aren’t real and that they don’t fully understand.  They don’t like being told about how midi-chlorian counts create all of that.

I think what we're seeing is WB taking a different approach than they did in the past. They used to let individual movies suffer in service of the shared universe. Here is it seems like they're using the WB universe as a jumping off point for the movies, which can stand on their own, disregarding the shared universe.

So this Joker, grounded in reality, may not have anything to do with the Joker they use in movies going forward, who will be more out-there. There could be several Jokers. I think canonically there is more than one Joker.

Personally, I like this approach. It could lead to more compelling films that are distinguished from each other.

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atomheartbevo

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Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ajax said:

Personally, I like this approach. It could lead to more compelling films that are distinguished from each other

DC has some amazing one-offs and graphic novels that would make for amazing movies or mini-series.  

Watchmen on HBO (a sister company) is a good example of where they could take things.  

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Helobious

Helobious 9464

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Rougarou said:

From the trailer, my opinion this movie is going to be awesome. Heath Ledger's completely insane and random and chaotic evil Joker isn't real because it isn't human. In the same way there is no such thing as a human being able to inform true randomness there could never be a character like he portrayed that didn't have elements of what we saw in the trailer, namely experiences and influences (however subtle or sub/unconscious they may be) that shaped the psychosis of him as a person. Having a fully baked insane and unreliable adult narrator introduced via being air dropped into the middle of an action arc story is fun in the same way that any fantasy/sci-fi that uses potions and magic to do something supernatural is fun, because it breaks the glass of the limits of known human condition and phenomena, but it's not real. 

 

Evil people commit random acts of violence all the time, with no real motive or reason behind it. To me that was the most realistic part of Ledger's Joker. The deep meaning/motive that often drives criminals in works of fiction is what's fake. Most bad people in real life don't have some super complex backstory or driving force. They're just crazy, or the motives for their actions are shallow. 

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Deej

Deej 76903

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On 4/4/2019 at 8:56 PM, futureman said:

it’s great.  Rupert Pupkin is genius.  I was shocked how much I enjoyed it; I only saw it in the last couple years. 

This flick and After Hours don't get Scorcese enough love.

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Parliament

Parliament 14291

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Posted
29 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Evil people commit random acts of violence all the time, with no real motive or reason behind it. To me that was the most realistic part of Ledger's Joker. The deep meaning/motive that often drives criminals in works of fiction is what's fake. Most bad people in real life don't have some super complex backstory or driving force. They're just crazy, or the motives for their actions are shallow. 

1234

 

"Some men just want to watch the world burn."

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MissingInAction

MissingInAction 25177

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57 minutes ago, TexasHooch said:

Not that they shouldn't make the movie they want regardless, but I have a feeling this portrayal is going to inspire a whole bunch of nut bars to do nut bar stuff.  I'm gonna go ahead and not watch this in a crowded theater.

I will be watching it in a crowded theater with clown make up on.

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Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey 12642

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

They've hit a rich vein with this character. Nice casting. Those are big shoes to fill.

 

Also a nice reference to King of Comedy having Deniro do Carson.

and Joaquin Phoenix looks/acts a lot like Travis Bickle in some of those scenes.

Edited by Jive Turkey
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ajax

ajax 2620

Posted
Posted

The first couple of reviews I saw are absolutely raving about it.

However, a little bit of a controversy is brewing because some twitter users did some research and shockingly discovered that this movie centers on a white man.

EDH3-RRr-Ww-AAp-TGS.jpg

 

 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52583

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Posted
50 minutes ago, ajax said:

The first couple of reviews I saw are absolutely raving about it.

However, a little bit of a controversy is brewing because some twitter users did some research and shockingly discovered that this movie centers on a white man.

EDH3-RRr-Ww-AAp-TGS.jpg

 

 

Replace joker with Batman in those tweets and it reads the same. 

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