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Joaquin Phoenix as Joker

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By Jograves
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Drew

Drew 2510

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, achooloco said:

Lulz, that sequence of opening the door for the little guy had the entire theater laughing. Great scene. 

My theatre was rolling too...just perfect.  Probably could have used one or two more scenes like that, just to give us a little breather.

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mchookem

mchookem 16346

Posted
Posted

that was dark as shit. really liked it but definitely made me uncomfortable. 

have two different actors won oscars for playing the same character before? Judi Dench and Cate Blanchett were both nominated for Queen Elizabeth roles (same year even), but only Dench won (Cate lost to Gwenyth, what bs). i can't remember if there have been any others.

but i could totally see that happening here. JP is just... something else. 

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Murfdogg21

Murfdogg21 4417

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Agree about probably didn’t do anything to gf/daughter. 

I really enjoyed it. My only criticism is I thought it was lazy and sloppy to tie in the Wayne family and in such a ridiculously personal way. Sort of like the 1989 “I made you? You made me first!” The anti-hero criticism is valid too. 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, HoustonFrog said:

Yeh the Wayne family didn’t work.

Biggest complaint is that the Joker is supposed to be a mastermind villain who is also insane. Nothing to believe this Joker is a mastermind, just insane.

It's the beginning of his life as the Joker.  It takes time to develop the evil genius part of that new life.

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4997

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1 hour ago, Pasken said:

I agree. Seems more likely the joker we know gets his inspiration from this one.

Seems fucking stupid if you ask me.  Let’s make up a bunch of theories to try to work this into the pre-existing DC cannon, when the easier solution is that this semi political art house flick was only loosely based on a DC property to get attention and simply threw in a few random tie-ins to the Wayne family to somehow justify setting this in the Batman universe.

Change clown paint to a Guy Fawkes mask and the name Wayne to Rockefeller and cut out that last Batman origin scene and you’d never know this was in the Batman or DC universe.  That’s the part that really bugs me.  I was hoping to see a Joker origin story and instead got a period piece on mental health and income inequality.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Seems fucking stupid if you ask me.  Let’s make up a bunch of theories to try to work this into the pre-existing DC cannon, when the easier solution is that this semi political art house flick was only loosely based on a DC property to get attention and simply threw in a few random tie-ins to the Wayne family to somehow justify setting this in the Batman universe.

Change clown paint to a Guy Fawkes mask and the name Wayne to Rockefeller and cut out that last Batman origin scene and you’d never know this was in the Batman or DC universe.  That’s the part that really bugs me.  I was hoping to see a Joker origin story and instead got a period piece on mental health and income inequality.

Well aren't weeee the purist.  All the things you listed are what made this such a better movie than just a DC comic recreation, but it's all personal taste, and I get your points.

Edited by Onboard 2.0
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Nolacycling

Nolacycling 893

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Just saw it. Great golf joke. Kept thinking Andy Kaufman especially in Murray scenes and Ricky Gervais in the "what is comedy?" sequence.

Sound track was so-so. All the classic rock songs stand alone as great music and matched the era being portrayed. But I could have gone for something eerie and quieter.

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Patricio Swayze

Patricio Swayze 17058

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Posted
Ohh... that's some grade A, Bute-ee-full shit right there.  Has that line ever worked for you with the lay-dees ?


More than you would think. Hahaha but what I meant was there is something a bit intangible about her. How she looked in Deadpool was pretty fucking hot. Plus she is German she is probably into some freaky stuff.

Are her tits so big they need a wheelbarrow or something?


Genuine lulz. Haha.
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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12639

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Posted (edited)
On 10/13/2019 at 1:07 PM, HoustonFrog said:

Biggest complaint is that the Joker is supposed to be a mastermind villain who is also insane. Nothing to believe this Joker is a mastermind, just insane.

He succeeds because he's at the forefront of the zeitgeist. Literally any competence he has comes from the confidence you get when you genuinely have nothing to lose. His dancing is smooth and debonaire once he truly feels he has nothing to lose -- his "competence" as a criminal (such as it is) comes from that.

To steal from Heath Ledger's Joker, "Do I look like a guy with a plan?"

It truly boggles my mind that anyone thinks this movie is political in any way, unless you think of nihilism as being political. It is entirely about mental illness, and what happens when you treat people like rats on a dungheap.

Edited by Walden Ponderer
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Bama Llama

Bama Llama 1450

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

  It is entirely about mental illness, and what happens when you treat people like rats on a dungheap.

This, and also what doesn't happen when you treat people with kindness and respect.  Instead of being stabbed in the eye, the Cockney little guy is kissed on the head and helped out the door.

First 75-80% of the film was lovely, moody, acoustic music.  What a nice break from ear shattering fx-laden shyte.  Then when the climactic scenes unfold you get White Room and R&R Pt II.   I like this pace and style very much.  A good, positive story is being told here.

Edited by Bama Llama
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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12639

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Posted
5 hours ago, Bama Llama said:

First 75-80% of the film was lovely, moody, acoustic music.  What a nice break from ear shattering fx-laden shyte.  Then when the climactic scenes unfold you get White Room and R&R Pt II.   I like this pace and style very much.  A good, positive story is being told here.

I absolutely agree -- I thought the music usage throughout were brilliant.

I get why it's making critics squeamish, though -- it absolutely inculcates sympathy for violent retribution on society itself. Even if it doesn't endorse or especially romanticize anarchism, it makes it a completely legitimate response to broken social structures.

But honestly, the psych worker at the end was the only direct victim of his violence who didn't more or less "have it coming"... We have conditioned ourselves to believe it is dangerous even to think that way, so a story which makes it impossible not do so is obviously going to meet with critical resistance.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20982

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12 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

He succeeds because he's at the forefront of the zeitgeist. Literally any competence he has comes from the confidence you get when you genuinely have nothing to lose. His dancing is smooth and debonaire once he truly feels he has nothing to lose -- his "competence" as a criminal (such as it is) comes from that.

To steal from Heath Ledger's Joker, "Do I look like a guy with a plan?"

It truly boggles my mind that anyone thinks this movie is political in any way, unless you think of nihilism as being political. It is entirely about mental illness, and what happens when you treat people like rats on a dungheap.

that has become political

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

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12 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

He succeeds because he's at the forefront of the zeitgeist. Literally any competence he has comes from the confidence you get when you genuinely have nothing to lose. His dancing is smooth and debonaire once he truly feels he has nothing to lose -- his "competence" as a criminal (such as it is) comes from that.

To steal from Heath Ledger's Joker, "Do I look like a guy with a plan?"

It truly boggles my mind that anyone thinks this movie is political in any way, unless you think of nihilism as being political. It is entirely about mental illness, and what happens when you treat people like rats on a dungheap.

Even if it doesn't endorse or especially romanticize anarchism, it makes it a completely legitimate response to broken social structures.

I think these are political statements insomuch as society in general, and the way society organizes and designs itself, is political.

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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12639

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

I think these are political statements insomuch as society in general, and the way society organizes and designs itself, is political.

Maybe in a meta sort of way. If that sort of organization (from the point of view of the residents of Gotham in this story) is "political" then so is the organization of an ant colony. The fundamental disconnect between the elites and the people in Joker, after all, is that the elites think political solutions will matter a damn. The nihilistic point of view is that interpersonal relationships are so bad, so disconnected, that literally nothing else matters.

I think of Arthur Fleck as being Raskolnikov more than Leon Czolgosz. His anarchism is personal, not movement related -- Joker gloms on to a movement because it makes him feel like he exists.

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Maybe in a meta sort of way. If that sort of organization (from the point of view of the residents of Gotham in this story) is "political" then so is the organization of an ant colony. The fundamental disconnect between the elites and the people in Joker, after all, is that the elites think political solutions will matter a damn. The nihilistic point of view is that interpersonal relationships are so bad, so disconnected, that literally nothing else matters.

I think of Arthur Fleck as being Raskolnikov more than Leon Czolgosz. His anarchism is personal, not movement related -- Joker gloms on to a movement because it makes him feel like he exists.

Joker doesn't glom on to anything- he haphazardly and accidentally creates a movement based on his responses to his own psychological terror and suffering combined with some external (i.e. political or at the very least, resultant from politic) terror and suffering. Going so far as to have inadvertently created the face of the insurgency (figuratively, but quite literally; clown face/mask). Arthur Fleck is not Raskolnikov; he is Akaky Akakievich Bashmachkin

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15350

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1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

Joker doesn't glom on to anything- he haphazardly and accidentally creates a movement based on his responses to his own psychological terror and suffering combined with some external (i.e. political or at the very least, resultant from politic) terror and suffering. Going so far as to have inadvertently created the face of the insurgency (figuratively, but quite literally; clown face/mask). Arthur Fleck is not Raskolnikov; he is Akaky Akakievich Bashmachkin

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

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Just saw the late night showing... Perfect. Wouldn't change a thing about it. Phoenix continues to one up himself and his talents seemingly know no bounds. 

On 10/17/2019 at 11:21 PM, Walden Ponderer said:

 

It truly boggles my mind that anyone thinks this movie is political in any way, unless you think of nihilism as being political. It is entirely about mental illness, and what happens when you treat people like rats on a dungheap.

People think it's political because deep down inside their minds (whether they want to believe it or not) they recognize the similarities between fictional corruption and oppression of fictional Gotham City and the real life corruption and oppression perpetrated by corporations and politicians in real life America. It says much more about our current situation than about the film makers. 

On 10/18/2019 at 10:39 AM, Walden Ponderer said:

We have conditioned ourselves to believe it is dangerous even to think that way, so a story which makes it impossible not do so is obviously going to meet with critical resistance.

We haven't conditioned ourselves, our society has (non coincidentally) conditioned us to think this way as self preservation for the status quo. It's worked beautifully as we have nothing but widespread corruption, lies, and greed running this country but people are so conditioned not to upset the social apple cart we just bend over and take it as a society. As long as the majority of people have the creature comforts of social media apps, electricity, etc. and the necessities of food to eat and somewhere to live the limits of the amount of corruption we'll endure are nonexistent. 

Now, if (or when) all this corruption once again leads to a massive economic depression without the required leadership to pull out of it and these things get taken away we may see a frightening scenario take shape. 

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